Angels among us?

Post Reply
User avatar
illuminati
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by illuminati »

This subject has bothered me for a long time. A long time.

Here is a quick explanation:

The vast majority of Christians take the New Testament as fact. Some are fundamentalists who take each word verbatim. Others are more moderate and believe the meaning and the general lesson is important. The key is: Protestants and Catholics believe The Word was divinely inspired.

That is our baseline.

Here is my problem: Most Christians don't give angels much thought. Many dismiss them. How can this be the case? The New Testament mentions angels explicity hundreds of times. They were real to the people of the time and real to Jesus. To dismiss them is to practice cafeteria style Christianity. To dismiss major characters in the New Testament is a slippery slope.

I believe they are real. To think about a "superior race" is interesting. God, by definition, is supernatural for us. So your thoughts on this may not be too far from the truth.

Let's review the angel appearances in the New Testament. I found this interesting: (I left out Revelations)

A list of passages from the New Testament with the word angel or in Greek, aggelos. Please note that I put in parentheses only those verses followed by comments. Also, a number of passages are redundant, a fact which precludes commentary:

MATTHEW

1.20: "as he [Joseph] considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream." Note the break in flow of events: Joseph was in the act of considering Mary "being with child" [vs 19] when the angel appeared to him in a dream. The word for "behold," idou, signifies a sudden interruption of Joseph's "considering" or thought process with regard to something he could not fathom.

1.24: "When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him." Joseph wakes up after having been startled by that idou or the angel's intrusion into his life. We make take idou to represent a kairos, a divine event where perception of ordinary time (chronos) is altered, which permanently alters his life. Note other references just below where idou or "behold" has the same function.

2.13: "Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream." That is, the Magi to whom Christ's birth was revealed by a star; they too were warned in a dream (vs 12) not to return to Herod. Note that while dreaming is done when asleep and in isolation, it has social ramifications.

2.19: "But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt." Observe the parallel between Joseph in Egypt and his predecessor, Joseph, who also was in Egypt; not only was he a dreamer but an interpreter of dreams.

4.6: "He will give his angels charge of you." (from Ps 91.11-12). The devil quotes two further passages from Deuteronomy, Dt 6.16 & Dt 6.13, passages which expound the first commandment, "that you may fear the Lord" (vs 1).

4.11: "Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and ministered to him." What could this "ministering" (diakonoo) be? For a similar instance, cf. Lk 22.43 ("an angel from heaven, strengthening him"). Former instance of angelic help is after the devil's temptation; latter instance is prior to his passion.

13.39:" the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels." "Close" or sunteleia connotes completion. Refer to passages concerning angels in the Book of Revelation cited below where they play an important role with regard to this sunteleia at the end of time and the dawn of eternity.

13.41: "The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers." Use of verb apostello ("to send") connotes the dispatch of the twelve Apostles whose mission is similar.

13.49: "The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous." Note that this follows another use of sunteleia ("completion") in the same verse which indicates the time for angels to assist in God's work. They "separate the evil from the midst (ek mesou) of the righteous" with whom they dwelt. Refer to my remarks concerning the three men sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah following this section.

16.27: "For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father." Angels come not only with Christ but in the Father's glory which accompanies them all.

18.10: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven." Here the angels "behold" or see the Father's face unlike Moses, Ex 33.20: "You cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live."

22.30: "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven." The angels who see the Father's face find this vision sufficient to refrain not so much from physical intercourse (they are obviously incapable of it), but their vision of the Father precludes the need for begetting on the corporeal level of existence.

24.31: "he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds." Such "winds" represent the four cardinal points of the compass. The elect have not been scattered like the Jews, but have been sent like the Apostles to evangelize all peoples. Perhaps this verse suggests completion of the evangelization process.

24.36: "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven." Such "not knowing" of temporal fulfillment is not so important as knowing the endurance of Christ's words (vs 35). One clue of fulfillment lies in vs 38, "they were eating and drinking," etc, at Noah's time, the flood. I.e., close attention to an undue concern for propagating temporal existence in any form (the "vanity" of Ecclesiastes) is a first step of withdrawing to a higher plane.

25.31: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne." A preparation for final judgment. Note its context, within the mundane perception (of lack of it) of seeing Christ in persons who are deprived (vss. 35-46). Another way of seeing Christ's identification with such persons are in his words to Paul in Acts 9.4, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" I.e., the "me" of Jesus Christ represents his identity with the Church.

25.41: "Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Appalling words for those who like Paul prior to his conversion, did not perceive the identity of Christ with persons in need.

26.53: "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?" The next verse reads, "But how should the scriptures be fulfilled?" Note the constant appeal to such fulfillment of scripture (Old Testament passages) which run throughout the accounts of Christ's passion.

28.2: "And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat upon it." This verse has its precedent in Gen 29.10 when Jacob rolled back a stone blocking a well too big for "the shepherds" to remove (vs 3). Such a well is like Christ's tomb which contains "water welling up to eternal life" (Jn 4.14) and requires more than human strength to remove.

28.5: "But the angel said to the women, 'Do not be afraid.'" We can say that these woman who were fearful like Adam and Eve "hid themselves" from the "sound of the Lord walking in the garden" (Gen 3.8). Note the role of "sound" (actually "voice") in both instances which instills a sense of anxiety. However, in the latter case, the women run with joy to tell the disciples about the empty tomb (vs 8) in contrast to our first parents who fled out of fear at God's "voice."





MARK

1.13: "And he was in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to him." Mark points out Jesus having the company of "wild beasts" as well as angels. Such beasts are not necessarily symbolic of brutishness; rather, draw a parallel between Jesus and Adam (i.e., the Second and First Adams) when he gave names to all the animals (Gen 2.20).

8.38: "For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of man also be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." Here we have a double shame, that with respect to Christ himself and his words. I.e., Christ's words which contain eternal life bear a close identity with his divine person. Obviously the angels are not ashamed of such words because they can be seen as well as heard as they are spoken between Christ and his Father prior to his "coming."

12.25: For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

13.27: And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

13.32: but of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.





LUKE

1.11: "And there appeared to him [Zechariah] an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense." This is reminiscent of Is 6.1-8 when one of the seraphim took a coal from the altar to purify Isaiah's lips.

1.13: But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.

1.18: And Zechariah said to the angel, "How shall I know this?"

1.19: "And the angel answered him, 'I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you, and to bring you this good news.'" Here we have one of the few instances when the name of an angel is revealed. Gabriel identifies himself by saying that he stands in God's presence, a chief function of an angel.

1.26: "In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth." Contrast this sending with the other sending of three men by God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 18).

1.30: "And the angel said to her, 'Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.'" Note the Greek para to theo for "with God;" the preposition para signifies more a being-in his presence similar to Gabriel in 1.19 above.

1.34: And Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no husband?"

1.35: "And the angel said to her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.'" Note thee uses of the preposition epi: "come upon you (epeleusetai epi se)," and "overshadow you (epi se)." Then Mary, who is under this overshadowing, is bidden to call her son "Jesus." He concealment parallels the "hovering" by God's Spirit at creation at which time he imparts names to the various days.

1.38: "And Mary said, 'Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.' And the angel departed from her." As soon as Mary utters her idou or "behold" the angel says nothing more and departs. Note the angel's "word" is rhema or utterance which differs from logos, also "word" which in the New Testament connotes Jesus Christ as Logos (Jn 1.1). A number of the Greek Church Fathers play with this relationship between logos-Logos.

2.9: "And an angel of the Lord appeared to them [shepherds], and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear." Note the "shining around" (perilampo) of God's glory whose immediate human response is fear. This response is documented in Eden (Gen 3.8) when Adam and Eve fled from God's walking there in the "cool of the day."

2.10: "And the angel said to them, 'Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people.'" Parallel this second announcement of "good news" to the shepherds with its first announcement to Mary from the angel Gabriel.

2.13: "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, 'Glory to God in the highest.'" After this incident the shepherds visit Mary, Joseph and the babe and inform them about their experience. Despite "all who heard it wondered at it" (vs 18), there is no mention of rejoicing by Mary; she simply was "pondering (sumballo, literally, 'placing them to make a comparison') these things in her heart" (vs 19).

2.15: "When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, 'Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened.'" Parallel this with Moses who said when he noticed the burning bush, "I will turn aside and see this great sight" (Ex 3.3).

2.21: "And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, he was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb." Christ remains (publically, as it were) without a name for seven days even though Mary received his name from the angel Gabriel.

4.10: "He will give his angels charge of you, to guard you." [Ps 91.11-12].

9.26: when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

12.8: "everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of man also will acknowledge before the angels of God." The sense of "acknowledging" as homologeo implies "to confess." Note the parallel: a simultaneous acknowledging "before men" and "before the angels of God" (not necessarily "before God!").

12.9: "but he who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God." The opposite sense of "acknowledging" of vs 8 through the act of denial.

15.10: "Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Again, the angels are the ones who are happy; nothing explicitly mentioned with regard to God. Such joy appears bound up with the angelic purpose of being mediators between the human and divine spheres, that is, their going back and forth.

16.22: "The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom." Since the poor man lived on the same (human) level as the rich man who ignored him, the passages implies that the angels bore Lazarus across that "great chasm" of vs 26 which is infinitely narrow yet infinitely deep.

24.23: "and they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive." It was bad enough for the disciples to hear of the empty tomb, but the vision of angels implies that this report was an added absurdity. Parallel the women announcing their report with the shepherds at Christ's birth who similarly proclaimed their extraordinary experience.





JOHN

1.51: "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." A reference to Jacob's dream, Gen 28.12: "And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth...and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it."

12.29: "The crowd standing by heard it [Father's voice] and said that it had thundered. Others said, 'An angel has spoken to him.'" Despite various opinions by witnesses, Christ pinpoints the real purpose of this noise by saying "This voice has come for your sake, not for mine."

20.12: "and she [Mary Magdalene] saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet." There is a certain sense of humor here on the angels' part; they seem to be just "hanging around" while waiting for someone to come and see that Christ has risen.





ACTS

5.19: But at night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out.

6.15: "And gazing at him [Stephen], all who at in the council saw that his face was like the face of an angel." This "gazing" (atenizo) means to "look without extension;" the wonder of Stephen's expression, like an angel, shows that he is in the act of beholding God which takes place outside the realm of space and time. Hence, Stephen lacked "extension."

7.30: Now when forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him [Moses] in the wilderness of Mount Sinai in a flame of fire in a bush.

7.35: God sent as both ruler and deliverer by the hand of the angel that appeared to him in the bush.

7.38: This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai.

7.53: you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.

8.26: But an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza."

10.3: About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius."

10.7: When the angel who spoke to him [Peter] had departed.

10.22: Cornelius…was directed by a holy angel to send for you [Peter] to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.

11.13: And he [Peter] told us how he had seen the angel standing in his house.

12.7: and behold, an angel of the Lord appeared, and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter on the side and woke him.

12.8: And the angel said to him, "Dress yourself and put on your sandals."

12.9: he did not know that what was done by the angel was real, but thought he was seeing a vision.

12.10: and immediately the angel left him.

12.11: Now I am sure that the Lord has sent his angel and rescued me from the hand of Herod and from all at the Jewish people were expecting.

12.15: but she insisted that it was so. They said, "It is his angel!"

12.23: Immediately an angel of the Lord smote him, because he did not give God the glory.

23.8: For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor angel, nor spirit.

23.9: What is a spirit or an angel spoke to him [Paul]?

27.23: For this very night there stood by me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship.





ROMANS

8.38: "For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels…will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Such love or agape is so intense that the two most basic realities, life and death, cannot "separate us." The same applies to angels, those beings whose function is to behold God.





1 CORINTHIANS

4.9: we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels and to men.

6.3: "Do you not know that we are to judge angels?" Despite their lofty status, angels are subordinate to humans when it comes to our relationship with Christ.

11.10: "That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels." Apart from ancient cultural considerations, perhaps this veiling of a woman's head implies that angels are inclined to associate themselves with this gender who are more disposed to that angelic vocation of beholding God.

13.1: If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.





2 CORINTHIANS

11.14: for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.





GALATIANS

1.8: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed." The very word "gospel" means good news so at first glance it seems that the preaching of "good news," regardless of its source, would be welcome. However, transmission of "good news" requires a certain discipline or order coming from the Apostles.

3.19: it [Law] was ordained by angels through an intermediary.

4.14: "you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus." Paul saw Christ at his conversion, a parallel with the function of angels to behold God. Thus the affinity between Christ, angels and Paul.





COLOSSIANS

2.18: Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels.





2 THESSALONIANS

1.7: when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire.





1TIMOTHY

3.16: "He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." Note the passive tense of all six verbs which implies being acted upon by someone.

5.21: In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without favor, doing nothing from partiality.





HEBREWS

1.4: having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.

1.5: For to what angel did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you?" [Ps 2.7]

1.6: when he brings the first-born into the world he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." [Dt 32.43]

1.7: Of the angels he says, "who makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire." [Ps 104.4].

1.13: but to what angel has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a stool for your feet?" [Ps 110.1].

2.2: For if the message declared by angels was valid and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution.

2.5: For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come.

2.7: "You made him a for a little while lower than the angels [Ps 8.4]." Yes, lower than angels but not lower than human beings.

2.9: But we see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honor.

12.22: But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering.

13.2: "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." The Rule of St. Benedict speaks of this when monks receive guests. The "unawares" implies a sense of mystery, of not fully knowing what is going on.





1 PETER

1.12: "those who have preached the good news to you through the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look." This "longing" (epithumia) implies ardent or passionate desire. Coupled with "looking" or parakupto which means "peeping," we get a somewhat humorous sense as when we desire to peep or see something off limits to us.

3.22: who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.





2 PETER

2.4: For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment.

2.11: whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a reviling judgment upon them before the Lord.





JUDE

1.6: And the angels that did not keep their own position but left their proper dwelling have been kept by him in eternal chains in the nether gloom until the judgment of the great day.
User avatar
beep
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by beep »

For my first post, I figure that this is as good of a place as any to jump in!

I wonder if our civilization has become so "advanced" that we aren't losing alot in the realm of spirituality. Maybe angels are still with us, but their acts are explained away with science. Miracles today are called "luck" or "karma" or "adrenaline" (as in the lifting the car scenario), or lies, or mental illness, or mass hysteria, etc. We don't simply believe anything anymore unless it is a conspiracy theory or a UFO sighting. :)

Churches (Protestant) are caught in a trap in that they need to compete for members in order to stay afloat. This has resulted in policy decisions that set out to appeal to the internet/television generation. In other words, churches are changing their belief system to fit in with popular social mores, instead of the other way around. This doesn't leave much room for talking about what our responsibility is as children of God, about God's hand in our lives (ie Angels), or especially about Satan and how he works in our current society. (As a matter of fact, I know several Christians who believe in God, but do not believe that Satan exists.) People are happy with an uplifting message that tells them that they are "okay" and some pop-rock concert music. That's what keeps 'em coming back. As Illuminati said, this is cafeteria Christianity, where you get to pick and choose what you believe.

I just finished reading this great nonfiction book by Alison Weir called "Eleanor of Aquitaine". It was worth reading for alot of reasons. Well researched, easy reading for a history book. One of the things that struck me were several instances that people in those times (1100's) took to be the Hand of God. We look upon those people as being ignorant and superstitious, and discount these events. Eleanor married Henry II (before he was king...). Henry's father, Geoffrey, was not necessarily a good guy all of the time. At one point, Geoffrey had a disagreement with an Abbott Bernard (who would become canonized) and blasphemed in his presence. The old Abbot predicted that Geoffrey would die inside of one month. Lo and behold... he went swimming in a river on a hot day, caught something, and died. Another example is Henry II's son, Henry (the Young King). Angry and vengeful with little regard for anyone else, he went on a ramapage across what is now southern France. At one point he raided a chuch, razed it and stole the altar treasure in front of the horrified pilgrims. He died within the next few days from a fever. The people of the time believed that God was taking care of things. I submit that God still is taking care of things, we just refuse to see it.
Test
User avatar
anastrophe
Posts: 3135
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by anastrophe »

i think it's perhaps a bit unfair to lump all protestant faiths under an 'appealing to the television/internet generation'. some may be, but certainly not all. There is no one, true christian faith in my opinion, not at least in terms of a given church being the one, true way. if that were the case, then hundreds of millions of christians are going to hell - which is not something i believe Jesus would sanction, not in his name.

as well, lets not forget that the catholic church is also guilty of bending to popularity - witness the common Mass in english, rather than latin. i'm not terribly 'up' on my bible studies, but i believe that the english mass is acceptable to the vatican (please correct me if i'm wrong). also, there are the new movements of 'extreme' or ultra-conservative catholicism - a la mel gibson's group.



one of the truly beautiful things about the united states - heck, about life - is that we *are* free to choose how we will live, and how we will believe. i don't belong to any church. i was raised in the episcopal church, was confirmed when i was eleven (i think i was eleven!), but 'going to church' provides me no particular comfort in my dialogue with god. 'the kingdom of god is within you'. i believe that very deeply.



oh, heck, listen to me ramble off into the unknown! back to angels - a movie i hold very, very dear is _Wings of Desire_, which is precisely about angels among us. it is an absolutely fascinating and beautiful story, regardless of whether one agrees with the presentation or not. it touches me very deeply.
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]
User avatar
beep
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by beep »

Well, of course it's a bit unfair...isn't the nature of a dialogue like this one of sweeping generalization? However, I also think that the fact that Protestant churches number close to 30,000 different denominations really makes my point for me.

As far as the Catholic Church "bending to popularity", having the mass said in the language of the people of the region is a change in tradition (lower case t) and does not rate on the same scale as the issues we were discussing. Apostolic Tradition (capital T) has not changed in 2000 years.

I was not discussing freedom of belief or implying that it should be limited. My focus was on how our beliefs (or lack thereof) shape and change us. The freedom to choose is one of the fundamental gifts that God has given us.
Test
User avatar
anastrophe
Posts: 3135
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by anastrophe »

>Well, of course it's a bit unfair...isn't the nature of a dialogue like this one of sweeping generalization?



ah, you've got me there! :D
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]
User avatar
capt_buzzard
Posts: 5557
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by capt_buzzard »

OH NO, You Americans will believe anything.
User avatar
anastrophe
Posts: 3135
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by anastrophe »

well said, from the land of leprechauns!



;)
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]
User avatar
capt_buzzard
Posts: 5557
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by capt_buzzard »

My first introduction to religion was when my mother started telling me that God made the world. And every night I was instructed to kneel by my bedside and say a prayer to him. My parents prayed every morning and evening.Later on I went to church for the very first time,and when I asked my mother what church was for,she said it was the house where God lived,and we were going to say prayers and sing hymns to him.I thought in my little child like way,that we were actually going to meet God. But I was very unhappy when she said that God was not able to meet us in person,only in spirit.She tried her best to explain what Spirit meant,but I think it was beyond her also.My father said that God was not flesh and blood like us.

I had lots of questions about this God and I continued to ask like was God watching us pray and did he hear us? My mother said she was sure that God heard all our prayers. Hmmm,even all the people in our village,and all those other churches? But my mother said Yes, she really believed so.

As I grew older I asked everybody in every church about God,they knew much the same as my mother had told me.

I read more and books and bibles,but still got nowhere. I then met some born again christians who were always full of life and joy. And I asked them questions,but all they said,Come and join us and be saved. Saved from what?

Today I am still asking questions but I'm still getting no real answers.
User avatar
capt_buzzard
Posts: 5557
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by capt_buzzard »

anastrophe wrote: well said, from the land of leprechauns!



;)


And that also was an American idea. Made lots of bucks too. The Christian Churches are still cleaning up the dollars all based on lies.
User avatar
capt_buzzard
Posts: 5557
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by capt_buzzard »

We have a few angels in FG.
koan
Posts: 16817
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by koan »

I wonder if the church doesn't discuss angels much because they appear to people or help people outside of the church building and do not require the assistance of a priest or representative of the church in order to contact a person. I find organized religion to be somewhat of a business. If you can get a service without having to go to the 'store' to buy it then would not the 'store' go out of business?

I think angels, helpful spirits, guides...and all their other names are active in everyones lives...not just the select few that have fabulous stories to tell. It just takes a lot of practice to learn to see them at work. Ever taken a different route to work and found out there was a major accident on your normal route that would have put you there at the precise time of the crash? Yet something tells you to take a different road. Or something really annoying happens, out of the blue, that caused you to be running late. Why did this thing happen?

Everyone should take time, for a week or so, and count the number of 'coincidences', 'intuitions' or small miracles that guide their lives in so many ways. These are angels. Who cares what they look like? You don't have to see them to know they are there...by any name or religious association.
User avatar
capt_buzzard
Posts: 5557
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm

Angels among us?

Post by capt_buzzard »

anastrophe wrote: well said, from the land of leprechauns!



;) I knew somebody would bring that one up!. The story about Irish Fairies & Leprechauns was an American idea. Boo.
Post Reply

Return to “General Religious Discussions”