Jehovah's Witnesses - Why did these kids have to die?

[Jason McCarty]

Most hospitals and courts nowadays grant adult JWs the freedom to refuse blood products even when it means certain death for them. On the other hand, when the patients are babies or young children, physicians secure court orders almost automatically. A battle continues to rage, however, as the Watchtower Society attempts to persuade medical and legal authorities to view JW kids in the 12-through-17-year-old range as "mature minors" who should be allowed to die.

[Peg]

I understand faith, but I do not understand how a parent could not go for every and any means possible so their child can live. I do not understand how they can even begin to live with themselves after the death of their child because they refused a blood transfusion. Of course, there is a lot about the JW beliefs that I just never have and never will agree with.

[Raven]

I agree with you Peg. If God hadnt intended us to use aspirin, He wouldnt have made willow trees.

[Ted]

In my view it is called brainwashing by a cult, nothing more and nothing less.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Marie5656]

First, I am responding as someone who is not a Witness. But I do have a friend who is.

I do not claim to understand the beliefs of any religion which is not my own, but I feel it is hard for anyone who does not practice a religion which has beliefs differing from our own to fully understand the why's of those beliefs.

We just need to respect them, even if we disagree.

Ted, you mention brainwashing by a cult. I do not diagree with you, but Don't you think this can be said for any organized religion? To some point at least.

[Marie5656]

I guess I cannot disagree with your way of thinking, but I am still torn between what we see as "morally right or wrong...and what someone truly believes.

This is a tough topic, and a tough subject for all to agree upon, I fear.

[Peg]

Marie5656 wrote: First, I am responding as someone who is not a Witness. But I do have a friend who is.

I do not claim to understand the beliefs of any religion which is not my own, but I feel it is hard for anyone who does not practice a religion which has beliefs differing from our own to fully understand the why's of those beliefs.

We just need to respect them, even if we disagree.
I would think when it comes to the point where it is up to a judge to decide, he would have to take the religion out of the decision and do what is best for the child. At least, I'd hope it works that way.

[Rapunzel]

Peg wrote: I would think when it comes to the point where it is up to a judge to decide, he would have to take the religion out of the decision and do what is best for the child. At least, I'd hope it works that way.


I used to have a LOVELY family of JW's who used to visit me at my old home. They study the Bible intensely and were able to explain quite a few things which I'd never really understood despite a Catholic education.

However, you have to consider that many religions study the Bible and they ALL take the words in it to mean different things! How can they all POSSIBLY be right?

Of course, they can't! It is open to different interpretations by different people.

I used to watch 'Casualty' every week (many years ago). In one episode a mother gave birth to twins but needed an urgent blood transfusion. She was a JW - so she refused it and died! I don't understand how a mother could choose death over 2 newborn babies who desperately need her, plus her other youngsters who also desperately need her. What kind of God would ask for such a cruel sacrifice? Not my God! Yet their God is the same God I worship. It makes no sense.

The JW's who visited me were truly lovely people, but I could never convert to a religion who could deprive families of beloved members purely based on one person's interpretation of the Bible.

So I agree with Peg, a Judge SHOULD decide what is right for the child, regardless of what the family and their religion say!

[Ted]

Marie:-6

I am very reluctant to use the term "cult" since today it has so many negative implications. The early Christian movement was referred to as a cult.

It does seem to me that the word cult has such negative implications; don't think for yourself, do what you are told, don't associate with others who are not members of the same organization, the disruption of family life, what h ealth care you should have, etc. I think one could say that a cult is an organization that is not life affirming. If an organization is life affirming then it is a positive thing.

Having said that I would say, in my opinion, that the Jehovah Witnesses are a cult. They refer to themselves as Christians but this is not a designation accepted by many other churches. Even within the Christian community I believe there are cults; those who shoot abortion doctors, those who picket at the funerals of gay folks and so on. The same would exist in all the major faiths of the world.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Ted]

Rapunzel:-6

Yes the JW's study a Bible. It is one they had written especially for them. The writers were not academic translators but good creative writers. There Bible is not accepted in any academic circles that I know of.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[BabyRider]

You really don't want to get me started on this "religion." Sick &*%#$, every last one of them. Geeze, the stories I could tell you....:-5

[Ted]

BabyRider:-6

Unfortunately you have had a/many bad experiences with some religious institutions. That has not been the experience of everyone. I too have had some negative experiences but realized that it was an individual or group problem and not a probem of the particular faith.

There are many honest, decent folks in all of the great faiths who do the best they can to live up to their committments and their beliefs. Also many of the churches are trying to right any wrongs of the past in an honest effort to promote healing.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[BabyRider]

Ted wrote: There are many honest, decent folks in all of the great faiths who do the best they can to live up to their committments and their beliefs.
I'm quite sure of that, Ted, I just haven't come across any from this particular religion (I choke on that word in reference to this group) and I've met a lot of them. Lunatics, every last one, in my opinion.

[Ted]

BabyRider:-6

I understand that and respect it. Perhaps some day you will find a more positive experience. Who can say?

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Ted]

The Biblical text that the JW's use to justify no blood transfusions must be interpreted in light of the era in which it was written. Interpretation by Russell 2000 years later who probably had no knowledge of the ancient world led to the ignorant tragedies that have resulted.

When this rule was in effect it was the firm belief that the life force of a person existed in the blood; some form of divinity. It was thus wrong to eat the divine. We know a lot better now and that the blood while essential to the maintenance is not the source of life or the seat of the soul.

We could also talk about the broken families that this cult(in my opinion) has caused or the child molestations that went unpunished or for which the children were blamed. In my opinion this is a terrible organization that has a lot to answer for.

Shalom

Ted

Oops wrong thread. Sorry about that.

[Lulu2]

Our new member, RAIN, is a Jehovah's Witness. Perhaps she'll explain their views on receiving blood.....

[Marie5656]

I was at a picnic with a friend today ..she is a JW. I posed this question to her, for her response. She said that a JW will accept plasma or platelets, just not a transfusion of whole blood. She wanted me to make that clear. I asked about the banking of ones own blood for surgery. She said that some JW's will do that..in fact she did for her son. BUT the issue here , she says, is once the blood leaves your body, there is no guarntee that it is YOUR blood that is returned to your body.

She said that most JW's now will agree to kidney dyalisis...where at one time they did not. She said it is because the blood is not actually removed from the body, it is simply passed through a machine, which is attached to your body.

Also, this is the only "medical procedure" that they refuse. They equate it to a living will..where you have the choice of what treatments you will or will not accept.

She also said that she, personally, does not disagree with court intervention in the matter of children, as long as there are no other options, and the child's life is in danger.

[RedGlitter]

Marie5656 wrote:


Hi Marie.

I have a question. Does that mean that they would accept an organ transplant? I am assuming the issue is that of not wanting to take a foreign substance into one's body, so would an organ transplant not be the same idea? Why specifically blood?

Thanks.

Red

[Ted]

I try to say as little as possible on this topic because I can get rather testy about it. I have witnessed the hell that this organization has caused for many people including children. In my view Christian, they are not and they use a dishonest Bible they had specifically written to reflect their beliefs.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Marie5656]

RedGlitter wrote: Hi Marie.

I have a question. Does that mean that they would accept an organ transplant? I am assuming the issue is that of not wanting to take a foreign substance into one's body, so would an organ transplant not be the same idea? Why specifically blood?

Thanks.

Red


Gee, Red, that did not come up when I was talking with Sue. I did not think to ask, but I think with the proper research one could find out.

[Ted]

Just run the organ through an old fashioned ringer on a washing machine. That way you can be sure that every drop of blood is out of if. All hell might break loose if one gets even one drop of blood. LOL

Shalom

Ted:-6