Do All Men Cheat If So, Why?

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:35 am

Ok, so is flirting cheating? I know where I stand, I flirt with everyone all the time. I believe it's harmless.

For the sake of this conversation, where do you draw the line. What is considered cheating anyway. Do you have to have sex to cheat?

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:51 am

NO!!!! End of Story!

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:03 am

cars wrote: NO!!!! End of Story!

You don't have to yell.

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:07 am

CheshireCat wrote:

You don't have to yell.

That's for the cheaters on "both" sides, that are being too busy to hear!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:08 am

CheshireCat wrote: Ok, so is flirting cheating?

Usually, if it's only mild and only verbal - I've a feeling that the "modern" meaning

is more than that, though!

CheshireCat wrote: Do you have to have sex to cheat?

You are Bill Clinton and ICMFFBJs..... (ah OK, no ta, when I think about that!).

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:29 am

Cheating is cheating if you can ask yourself this "how would I feel if my partner did the cheating" and your answer comes to yourself as this "I would hate it" then it's all cheating.

Think of your partner and how they would feel if you cheated sexually? Think of your partner if you merely flirt?

If you draw a blank there or think you can get away with it, then the next thing you need to do is think about how you yourself would feel if the shoe was on the other foot....

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:33 am

minks wrote: Cheating is cheating if you can ask yourself this "how would I feel if my partner did the cheating" and your answer comes to yourself as this "I would hate it" then it's all cheating.

Think of your partner and how they would feel if you cheated sexually? Think of your partner if you merely flirt?

If you draw a blank there or think you can get away with it, then the next thing you need to do is think about how you yourself would feel if the shoe was on the other foot....

If you enjoy a meal with a man, enjoy his company, talk on the phone etc..., but there is nothing physical. Is that cheating?

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:34 am

Here's my bottom line:

Flirting -- No problem! I do it all the time.

Kissing -- Crosses the line.

Oral sex/Intercourse -- SEVERELY crosses the line.

I have too much respect for my husband (AND for myself) to cross the line. :-6

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:42 am

If you enjoy a meal with a man, enjoy his company, talk on the phone etc..., but there is nothing physical. Is that cheating?

I agree with Cher. That said, about the above question, I would be upset if my man was having dinner with another woman and I was not present. What is that biblical saying? "Lust begins in your heart?" or something like that?

I worked with a guy who was newly married. We both made it clear and known that if he wasn't married, we would have been. We flirted incessantly, had lunches together and talked on the phone at times. In that way it crossed the friendship line because we were both attracted to each other and although nothing physical beyond a public hug was exchanged, the feelings were there. I was in my 20s as was he so I use stupidity as my excuse. If another woman had done that to me, she would have found herself in the gutter. Alongside my man.

It doesn't sound like a good situation to be in if one is trying to figure out if it's wrong or not. :-3

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:42 am

CheshireCat wrote: If you enjoy a meal with a man, enjoy his company, talk on the phone etc..., but there is nothing physical. Is that cheating?

Is he married or has a partner who would be hurt by him doing so?? I always think the poor partner who is left out is who determines if it is cheating.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:45 am

I figure if you're doing something that you wouldn't do if your spouse/significant other was standing next to you, then it's wrong.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:48 am

sunny104 wrote: I figure if you're doing something that you wouldn't do if your spouse/significant other was standing next to you, then it's wrong.

Hmmmmm

That's a really good way to look at it, Sunny :-6

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:49 am

RedGlitter wrote: If you enjoy a meal with a man, enjoy his company, talk on the phone etc..., but there is nothing physical. Is that cheating?

I agree with Cher. That said, about the above question, I would be upset if my man was having dinner with another woman and I was not present. What is that biblical saying? "Lust begins in your heart?" or something like that?

I worked with a guy who was newly married. We both made it clear and known that if he wasn't married, we would have been. We flirted incessantly, had lunches together and talked on the phone at times. In that way it crossed the friendship line because we were both attracted to each other and although nothing physical beyond a public hug was exchanged, the feelings were there. I was in my 20s as was he so I use stupidity as my excuse. If another woman had done that to me, she would have found herself in the gutter. Alongside my man.

It doesn't sound like a good situation to be in if one is trying to figure out if it's wrong or not. :-3

Oh, I'm not in that situation. I'm single and usually share my meals with my cat

I was just wondering, in my own little knoggin, what actually crossed the line. watching people that ARE married and ARE in commited relayionships, I wonder if someof the behavor I observe is out of line

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:51 am

CSquared

Every couple defines their relationship in their own unique way

As long as the husband and wife hold the SAME definition

Then they should be O.K.

:-6

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:51 am

CheshireCat wrote: If you enjoy a meal with a man, enjoy his company, talk on the phone etc..., but there is nothing physical. Is that cheating?

Not "cheating" per se; however, the first is very dodgy indeed - the third, too.

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:52 am

sunny104 wrote: I figure if you're doing something that you wouldn't do if your spouse/significant other was standing next to you, then it's wrong.

Yeah, but I see people do stuff all the time that they wouldn't do if their spouse were there; smoke, eat meat, sweets, buy shoes, color their hair, etc...

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:16 am

I'm single and usually share my meals with my cat

Awww..... :-4

CheshireCat wrote: Yeah, but I see people do stuff all the time that they wouldn't do if their spouse were there; smoke, eat meat, sweets, buy shoes, color their hair, etc...

That's true, I know some of those right now and dishonesty may be involved there but it's not quite the same as being intimate with another person when you already have someone. To me that's the Ultimate Betrayal and totally unforgivable.

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:19 am

RedGlitter wrote: I'm single and usually share my meals with my cat

Awww..... :-4

That's true, I know some of those right now and dishonesty may be involved there but it's not quite the same as being intimate with another person when you already have someone. To me that's the Ultimate Betrayal and totally unforgivable.

I agree with you 100%. I have a co-worker that took her husband back after learning he had an affiar. I just don't see how you could ever trust him again!

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:22 am

CheshireCat wrote: Yeah, but I see people do stuff all the time that they wouldn't do if their spouse were there; smoke, eat meat, sweets, buy shoes, color their hair, etc...

Seems like you're trying to juggle the situations (you left out not going to the toilet) to defrey the initial subject, of "cheating" on your partner.

You're trying to mix apples & oranges. Do you really consider one buying shoes, tantamount to one cheating on one's partner?

Sunny was right, if one wouldn't feel comfortable doing a "sexual" thing in front of their partner, then it's wrong! :-2

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:22 am

CheshireCat wrote: I have a co-worker that took her husband back after learning he had an affiar. I just don't see how you could ever trust him again!

Hubby says if I ever cheated on him, our marriage would absolutely be over.

I say, if he ever cheated on me, it would *probably* be over.

I just think, as I get older, that there is a lot of 'gray' in life. When I was younger, I saw this issue as clearly 'black and white'.

I don't think that an affair ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY means the end of a marriage. It very well could, but it is not a foregone conclusion.

Anyone agree with me?

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:26 am

Then again this makes me wonder, how about folks who are good friends, of the opposite sex, and go out and have dinners together or whatever.... darn it's kind of a 2 headed coin and seems like many of us agree, it depends on what is agreed upon by each relationship.

It is only fair to consider each relationship individually and figure out what is acceptable to both partners.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:40 am

CheshireCat wrote: Yeah, but I see people do stuff all the time that they wouldn't do if their spouse were there; smoke, eat meat, sweets, buy shoes, color their hair, etc...
oh! my answer was limited to the subject of cheating....:-6

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:46 am

cherandbuster wrote: Hubby says if I ever cheated on him, our marriage would absolutely be over.

I say, if he ever cheated on me, it would *probably* be over.

I just think, as I get older, that there is a lot of 'gray' in life. When I was younger, I saw this issue as clearly 'black and white'.

I don't think that an affair ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY means the end of a marriage. It very well could, but it is not a foregone conclusion.

Anyone agree with me?
I totally agree with you!

I really don't know what I would do in that situation, especially since any decision we would make would also affect our children....

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:09 pm

I for one take the stand that the marriage is over if you cheat. Cheating is a breech of trust, once trust is tampered with, will you ever trust 100% again? Can you ever trust again? Will you ever see your partner in the same light again? Will you always be a little suspicious? Is this how you want to live your married life?

I guess as well it depends on if you have been in that kind of situation as well.

Easy for a happily married couple to say, Love would get us through anything.

But if you have been cheated on you likely have a different outlook.

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:14 pm

minks wrote: I for one take the stand that the marriage is over if you cheat. Cheating is a breech of trust, once trust is tampered with, will you ever trust 100% again? Can you ever trust again? Will you ever see your partner in the same light again? Will you always be a little suspicious? Is this how you want to live your married life?

I guess as well it depends on if you have been in that kind of situation as well.

Easy for a happily married couple to say, Love would get us through anything.

But if you have been cheated on you likely have a different outlook.

Completely agreed. I can not see myself EVER staying with someone that would have so little regard for me that he would give away what is exclusively mine to another woman. I am better than that.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:16 pm

Not all men cheat. My father did. It seems that in my experience in knowing about men cheating, they cheat when the woman who they are with starts withholding sex for whatever reason. And then there are the outright sex addicts. They want sex anyway or anytime or from anyone they can find it with.

I've been on both sides of the fence. :-3

But is it really "cheating" if 2 people are not married?

Women cheat also. I cheated when I was married. My justifier was that my husband was doing drugs.

Here is another question.....why do men loose respect for women and then cheat? In one of the previous posts it said that cheating signaled a lack of respect for the woman. Does the man have a lack of respect for women in general, or just that particular one?:-3

And here is something else I have found.....black men cheat a lot! think that black men have a higher sex drive than other races. And if they can cheat, they will.

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:20 pm

Saffron wrote: Not all men cheat. My father did. It seems that in my experience in knowing about men cheating, they cheat when the woman who they are with starts withholding sex for whatever reason. And then there are the outright sex addicts. They want sex anyway or anytime or from anyone they can find it with.

I've been on both sides of the fence. :-3

But is it really "cheating" if 2 people are not married?

Absolutely! If you are in a commited relationship, you are sharing your life with someone, it is very definately cheating.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:23 pm

CheshireCat wrote: Absolutely! If you are in a commited relationship, you are sharing your life with someone, it is very definately cheating.
Hmmm, but what constitutes "sharing your life with someone"? IF the 2 people do not live together, and the 2 of them have agreed that they are never marrying, then how committed are they?

CheshireCat · Post by **CheshireCat** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:45 pm

Saffron wrote: Hmmm, but what constitutes "sharing your life with someone"? IF the 2 people do not live together, and the 2 of them have agreed that they are never marrying, then how committed are they?

Then you're really not sharing your lives. If there is a commitment there to be monogamous and one of you isn't, it's still cheating.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:05 pm

Saffron wrote: Hmmm, but what constitutes "sharing your life with someone"? IF the 2 people do not live together, and the 2 of them have agreed that they are never marrying, then how committed are they?

I would like to think, committed enough to consider my health and not give me STD's by cheating on me

Is that a good answer?? Tough Q there Pina

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:07 pm

minks wrote: I would like to think, committed enough to consider my health and not give me STD's by cheating on me

Is that a good answer?? Tough Q there Pina
Then this would not be committment.

Lizard Lips · Post by **Lizard Lips** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:13 pm

I agree with what Cherie said. If you aren't into monogomy, don't get married. Personally, I hate cheating & I've never done it.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:33 am

What if you were to find yourself in a situation where you were married to your dream partner, had a wonderful family, kids etc, were best friends and enjoyed everything about your marraige except for one thing....One of you were unable to have sex, you went to medical doctors, counselors and finally arrived at an impasse. Would you cheat to get physical satisfaction? Abstain? Leave the marriage? If your life is great except for one area would you really split? Do all men cheat I doubt it? Some do for a wide variety of reasons. Are they necessarily evil or bad people? No I don't think so. Life is not always so black and white sometimes you have to take the best of bad options.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:38 am

zinkyusa wrote: Life is not always so black and white

Zinky my new friend,

You said it!

Life can be very gray indeed :-6

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:42 am

zinkyusa wrote: What if you were to find yourself in a situation where you were married to your dream partner, had a wonderful family, kids etc, were best friends and enjoyed everything about your marraige except for one thing....One of you were unable to have sex, you went to medical doctors, counselors and finally arrived at an impasse. Would you cheat to get physical satisfaction? Abstain? Leave the marriage? If your life is great except for one area would you really split? Do all men cheat I doubt it? Some do for a wide variety of reasons. Are they necessarily evil or bad people? No I don't think so. Life is not always so black and white sometimes you have to take the best of bad options.

Cheating is if it hurts your partner, no matter what the situation is, I would guess if both of you agree that you can look for sex outside of your marriage it is not cheating. If one partner can not have sex the one who can may have to look at sexual aids. Sex for the sake of pleasure does not require another human does it? If you sneak off away from your partner to have sex for your own pleasure that is simply cheating.

Ok I am not saying you specifically I am saying any human being and I think I am saying this badly I hope somebody out there understands this.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:58 am

I get what you're saying, Minxsy.

And I totally agree.

(As usual)

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:11 pm

minks wrote: Cheating is if it hurts your partner, no matter what the situation is, I would guess if both of you agree that you can look for sex outside of your marriage it is not cheating. If one partner can not have sex the one who can may have to look at sexual aids. Sex for the sake of pleasure does not require another human does it? If you sneak off away from your partner to have sex for your own pleasure that is simply cheating.

Ok I am not saying you specifically I am saying any human being and I think I am saying this badly I hope somebody out there understands this.

Actually I'm just posting a hypothetical minks to illustrate things are not always so cut and dry. I don't know what the answer would be in such a situation only but it would be a difficult choice to make for a man or a woman. It pains me when people make blanket statements about life situations. Who are we to judge someone else. Do we know every single fact about someone's past, present and future? We would need to in order to judge them fairly. I guess my point is yes some men cheat and some women do to, the question is should we judge them?

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:42 pm

zinkyusa wrote: Actually I'm just posting a hypothetical minks to illustrate things are not always so cut and dry. I don't know what the answer would be in such a situation only but it would be a difficult choice to make for a man or a woman. It pains me when people make blanket statements about life situations. Who are we to judge someone else. Do we know every single fact about someone's past, present and future? We would need to in order to judge them fairly. I guess my point is yes some men cheat and some women do to, the question is should we judge them?

Actually zink, your hypothetical sceneiro actually answered one of the possible "why's" men & or women may "Cheat", as the initial post querried.

Committed partners, that are cheating for sex, because sex exists, is where many cheaters just can't get enough sex, they don't really seem to care if anyone gets hurt in the process. And that's where many people seem to draw the line, & judge it as wrong.

Having sex outside the "partnership/marriage" where extenuating circumatances are involved, gets kinda sticky in the "grey" areas. These types of cases would seem to need to be evaluated on a one by one basis. Say if the "non participant partner" is understanding and knows the other partner has needs, and sort of turns a blind eye to the situation. As you said, there's more then just one side to a situation!

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:48 pm

and yes every situation is different and should be judged on an individual basis. You bet. I do agree re-reading the original post was about they "whys" of cheating... I went of on the when is it called cheating tangent

me done

happa · Post by **happa** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:21 pm

I have been a mistress for about 2 months now. My married male friend is a dcotor in his early forties with two young kids and a wife, also a doctor. This is my first time experiencing this kind of relationship.

The reason why my friend sees me is because he and his wife have zero intimacy, zero sex, zero passion. And it is not because he is a dud in bed, making that the reason why his wife is not interested in sex with him. He has a healthy sexual appetite and is very skilled, attractive and genuinely passionate.

I frankly think that my friend made a mistake in marrying his wife (he told me this himself) but is in a situation where he now has kids and loves them and is responsible for them. He is stuck with his cold, flat marriage however.

I do not think he is doing something terrible. I feel he is simply looking for love, or at least the feeling of love, intimacy, passion and most of all, to feel like a desireable man again. He does not feel this way with his wife. I don't feel like I am doing something terrible. I am discreet and I feel good about seeing him come alive again. I enjoy his friendship and how he makes me feel desireable without monopolizing my time.

Yes there is deception involved, as he must lie to his wife. I wonder though, if she were to ever find out, would it come as a surprise to her? I mean, you are married for 10 years and have sex MAYBE once every 6 weeks? If I were a spouse in such a marriage I would not be surprised. They have tried counseling to resolve this problem, but it is a symptom of something else.

He sees me to make the marriage tolerable, after all the counseling that did not work. I think this is the point of all long-term affairs, which are different from one-night stands, or cheating events that "just happen."

I have no expectations for this relationship except that it be a sort of friends with benefits thing. In a way it works out perfectly for me because although I am single I am a very busy person socially, professionally and in the arts. We get together, catch up, perhaps share a meal and make love.

The issue is that it is a problem without a solution, or two needs that are in conflict. He needs to maintain his marriage and be responsible for the kids even though he has no feelings for his wife. And the conflicting need is the need for the love feeling and emotional connection and intimacy, which he is finding in an "unacceptable" place, i.e., outside of the marriage.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:24 pm

I've never been a mistress and have never cheated.......What the hell is wrong with me.........:driving:

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:25 pm

happa wrote: I have been a mistress for about 2 months now. My married male friend is a dcotor in his early forties with two young kids and a wife, also a doctor. This is my first time experiencing this kind of relationship.

The reason why my friend sees me is because he and his wife have zero intimacy, zero sex, zero passion. And it is not because he is a dud in bed, making that the reason why his wife is not interested in sex with him. He has a healthy sexual appetite and is very skilled, attractive and genuinely passionate.

I frankly think that my friend made a mistake in marrying his wife (he told me this himself) but is in a situation where he now has kids and loves them and is responsible for them. He is stuck with his cold, flat marriage however.

I do not think he is doing something terrible. I feel he is simply looking for love, or at least the feeling of love, intimacy, passion and most of all, to feel like a desireable man again. He does not feel this way with his wife. I don't feel like I am doing something terrible. I am discreet and I feel good about seeing him come alive again. I enjoy his friendship and how he makes me feel desireable without monopolizing my time.

Yes there is deception involved, as he must lie to his wife. I wonder though, if she were to ever find out, would it come as a surprise to her? I mean, you are married for 10 years and have sex MAYBE once every 6 weeks? If I were a spouse in such a marriage I would not be surprised. They have tried counseling to resolve this problem, but it is a symptom of something else.

He sees me to make the marriage tolerable, after all the counseling that did not work. I think this is the point of all long-term affairs, which are different from one-night stands, or cheating events that "just happen."

I have no expectations for this relationship except that it be a sort of friends with benefits thing. In a way it works out perfectly for me because although I am single I am a very busy person socially, professionally and in the arts. We get together, catch up, perhaps share a meal and make love.

The issue is that it is a problem without a solution, or two needs that are in conflict. He needs to maintain his marriage and be responsible for the kids even though he has no feelings for his wife. And the conflicting need is the need for the love feeling and emotional connection and intimacy, which he is finding in an "unacceptable" place, i.e., outside of the marriage.

Oh BS. Justify it any way you want. You're someone for all women to disrespect and avoid, he's a louse and frankly, you two deserve each other.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:18 am

Originally Posted by happa

I have been a mistress for about 2 months now. My married male friend

RedGlitter wrote: Oh BS. Justify it any way you want. You're someone for all women to disrespect and avoid, he's a louse and frankly, you two deserve each other.

Wham!! Zock!!! POWEE!!! [with apologies to Batman cartoons]

Attached files

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:20 am

I know, I know, Bill. That was very unFG of me but it infuriated me so much I couldn't help myself.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:39 am

RedGlitter wrote: I know, I know, Bill. That was very unFG of me but it infuriated me so much I couldn't help myself.

S'ok, I was impressed!

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:46 am

I frankly think that my friend made a mistake in marrying his wife (he told me this himself) but is in a situation where he now has kids and loves them and is responsible for them. He is stuck with his cold, flat marriage however.

Amazing how many people will use their kids as an excuse to stay, when in reality, they stay because they can have their cake and eat it too. Even more amazing is the fact that so many people believe that b.s.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:16 am

Has anyone else here had an affair with a married person?

I'm not judging, I'm just incredibly curious . . .

(By the way, I have not.)

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:26 am

Pinky wrote: I have! I bet that probably doesn't surprise anyone either. I must try and sort out my rep here...I'm giving myself such a bad name!:-3

Like they say, ya can't help who you fall for.

Thank you for being honest with us, Pinkster.

For how long? And why did you break up?