Prayer in school.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:06 am

metalstorm wrote: Why is prayer being banned in our public school systems. ???

While attending public school I never noticed even once a prayer being said during class.

I never saw a revival tent in the parking lot.

I never attended a prayer meeting at school.

I went to class and I learned.

It seems to me that some athiestic bigot got his panties in a wad.

For what reason. ???

I am a Christian, and I do pray.

I pray for the poor people who come up with these things to get a life!!!A school is a public facility which is paid for by taxes which we all pay. Not all of us are Christians. Some are Muslims. So- do you think we should put up a minaret at the school? I know there aren't very many muslims in your neighborhood, so not a very tall minaret- just a little one, with a little speaker that isn't too loud! And what about the Jews in your neighborhood? Shouldn't there be a sacred Torah in a special cabinet in the School Library? What about the Mormons? Shouldn't there be a three-year supply of canned food in the basement of the school? Shouldn't there be some gold Buddah statues for the Buddhists? What about the Jehovah's Witnesses? Why should they be compelled to do the flag salute, which they consider an act of worship- and why make them pray with us, since their religion forbids it? What about the Satanists? Should't there be a five pointed star in the school Gym, and shouldn't the school coven be given a spot on the gym schedule to perform their rituals (using electric candles so not to violate fire regulations)?

About prayer- I'm not opposed to that, but who will write the prayer? Will it favor one religion over another and violate the first amendment? Or will it be some generic prayer, so watered down not to affend anyone that it won't really be a prayer at all?

Do all the parents who clamor for prayer in public schools pray with their own children at home? Do they raise their children to pray like Daniel- whether government fosters or approves of it or not? Or are they raising their chidren to believe that their religion should conform to the majority or be controlled by government?

And what denomination are you? What if my denomination wants to use the school parking lot to win converts? What if you don't like what we are going to say? And what's so special about your particular church that you think I will allow my tax money go to your ministry? What if your church teaches things my church doesn't agree with? You are assuming a lot.

Maybe we should do our church work in our churches and our homes, and neutral public places (places not publically funded) and avoid trampling on the rights of people who don't believe as we do.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:20 am

I feel prayer is not necessary at school. final answer.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:47 am

buzz, i understand completely...there is no prayer now in school? there is time after school to participate in religious activities? this has to be a reason why? or the other option is Catholic School, or other religious type schools, not sure...

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:13 am

From the oxford english dictionary

bigot // n.

an obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion, political theory, etc.

bigotry n.

[16th c. from French: origin unknown]

I hve met bigots from both types, religious and political. I have only ever been assaulted by religious bigots. (OK once by a jehovahs witness and he only took a swing at me and missed)

I know nothing about american schools but in Scotland and Northern Ireland we have major problems with Sectarianism kept alive by both Catholic and Ptotesytant bigots. Religon causes a problem because so many believe their religon is the only one and their way of worship is the only correct one and are prepared to use any means to keep their way. Religon is a divisive force and shoulkd be kept out of schools. Why have prayer meetings? Pray at home or at church don't try and force others to join in who don't want to.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:16 am

Let's put another spin on this, Why SHOULD you have prayer in school?

As a secondary school child I had to put up with prayers at assembly, easter and christmas services were compulsory. If you want to be religious then fine stop trying to force everybody to worship like you do.

posted by buzz

i meant NOT pressuring those who dont

I appreciate what you are saying but too many religious people can't leave people alone to their own beliefs but feel they have a right to shove their opinions down other people's throats. They live a in a free country but can't accept that means you have to respect the beliefs of others. I'm afraid I have little time for fundamentalists of any religon.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:09 am

Oh please! There is prayer in school, always has been. Every time a kid takes a test, he/she's praying silently to pass it. LOL

Seriously, that's as it should be. Silent, personal prayer is perfectly acceptable anywhere. I've seen families bow their heads in restaurants before eating. They're not standing up and demanding that everyone else pray as well. They are simply doing what feels right to them.

What I'd like to know is why does uniform prayer need to be in school? Or bible-reading? Isn't the relationship between ourselves and God a personal thing? Private? Shouldn't religion come from the home?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:32 am

AK, I like your point. A person's walk with God IS a private, personal thing, not to be determined by anyone but the individual. What harm is done when a kid in school says grace before he eats? This argument has always been a puzzle to me. If there are kids out there who want to worship when and where it's appropriate for them and their beliefs, who is to say that's wrong? Sheesh, we've got kids out there stealing, killing, robbing, assaulting, and now the ones who want to pray are told they can't?? It's a crock.

I'm not religious. That is to say I don't follow a conventional, structured religion. But do I talk to God? Yes. Should kids be allowed to talk to their God, when and where they see fit? Yes.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:37 am

BR

Yep! I agree with you. (Well, obviously, since you agree with me!)

I'm not sure that the laws are trying to stop kids from silently praying. I thought the argument was more about uniform prayer, or mandatory prayer in schools? I could be wrong. I've lost track of this issue the past couple of years.

Post by **kensloft** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:37 pm

Shouldn't there be some gold Buddah statues for the Buddhists?

Bhuddists do not, as Christians, worship idols. Nice Christian sentiment but wrong.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:29 am

grammyamie wrote: Why is it that our children can't read a Bible (any religion) in school, but they can in prison? Personally, I think if they read it more in school, they might not wind up in prison.

Where do you get this idea? Kids are allowed to read a Bible in school. The public school libraries even carry a couple of copies in the reference section. I know this because I've helped stock library shelves at two different schools on occasion. If a teacher forbade a child from reading a Bible during his free time, the teacher would be in violation of the child's rights. I've been in trouble for reading the Bible in school before, but I continued to carry my Bible and read it, ultimately there was nothing the teacher could do.

I also don't think that reading the Bible more would keep people out of prison. I know many ex-cons, all of them are very religious, even before arrest. In fact, stats show that the prison population is filled predominately with Christians.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:40 am

buzz wrote: hello!

well concerning prayer within schoold i have to say everyone has there own opinion but i feel personaly, being rather religious. that there should be the flexibility where one wants to pray themselves (in there own religious way) this be possible. however, i do not say that it should be led by the teacher or be part of the class work curriculum if you get what i mean. as some have mentioned earlier many of us come from different backgrounds with different beliefs. thereofre it would be impossible to accomodate for all. i feel that allowing for those who wish to pray the facility and pressuring those who don't. i would regard this as equal opportunity and not discriminating any one also!

what do u guys think?

Every highschool that I know of has a Christian Club comprised of students. Maybe this is just because of my area, however. They organize the annual prayer at the flagpole and do hold student led prayer for all those interested.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:56 am

metalstorm wrote: I said that some atheistic bigot got his panties in a wad.

For what reason!!!

I was not speaking for all atheists, but just the one who got his panties in a wad.

MetalStorm.......
I am bigoted toward people who cannot accept and respect the secular boundries set in place by our government in regard to public schools and their assemblies. I am bigoted toward people who blindly follow their faith and pray expecting a god to save them, but do nothing on their own to save themselves. I am bigoted toward the self-righteous who feel their way is the only way, so they try to push their way on everyone else.

Fundamentalists who want to inject their faith into the government really need to wake up. Having a secular separation is for everyone's safety and religious freedom. What will happen when the government begins to sanction and promote religion? What religion will be deemed the correct religion? What will happen to those who are not in the correct religion?

Those atheists with panties in a wad are acting as watchdogs. I suppose they would be even more dilligent in a time when the nation's president is trying to blur the lines.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:17 am

Beth wrote: Those atheists with panties in a wad are acting as watchdogs. I suppose they would be even more dilligent in a time when the nation's president is trying to blur the lines.
Beth, I agree with your points so long as we emphasize the fact that only some Christians are pushing the point. I believe you did that with how you phrased it, but I wanted to eliminate any offense others might take when we read quickly, or expect to hear a certain message.

We do need to keep the separation between church and state. Unfortunately, we seem to have the extremists on both sides fighting each other, and the voices of reason are being drowned out. That is dangerous. Extremism of any kind never gets us where we want to be.

It's interesting to me - almost as if people are afraid to bend or compromise on issues. Yet to me, compromise and new ideas are integral parts of change, both personal and social. But, what do I know?!

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:35 am

You are correct, I am not speaking of all Christians, nor do I solely mean Christian when I say "fundamentalists".

Yes, there are radicals, even secular extremists, but they can only act within the law. I think that even the pledge case may have had a chance if the plantiff's ex-wife had been in agreement with the suit and that the daughter had not identified herself with Christianity.

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:15 am

metalstorm wrote: Give me a break!!!

I called one athiest a bigot.

Perhaps they all are...... I dont know.

I know there are thousands of religeous bigots.

As well as political bigots.

And racial bigots.

I might be a bigot and not even know it.

And so might you.

What my post is all about is why ban something that was never there.

MetalStorm......

Moi?