The Vatican's 'dirty little secret'

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:58 am

Hi all,

I have just watched a very shocking report about the wholesale cover up of paedophilia within the Catholic priesthood. It seems that there is actually a written decree (which priests are ordered to keep locked up) that states that offences against children by clergy are to be kept utterly and completely within the church, even if it means frightening children into silence. All to keep the priests' names clean. In some cases priests were simply moved on again and again to difference Diocese abusing further as they were moved on and on again. This is worldwide, it is a policy that the present pope himself was in charge of enforcing the last 20 yrs or so, I don't know if popes can 'resign' but if i were a Catholic then I'd be campaigning for his removal from the Vatican.

Research has shown that abuse was 'endemic' rather than 'epidemic'.

Rather than regurgitate all the info have a read of this;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/p ... 389684.stm

It's an absolute disgrace.

Katy:mad:

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:05 am

Hi Katy

I live in Boston, which was the first city where the whole priest pedophelia issue became public. It was HUGE in Massachusetts. The Boston Globe Spotlight Team were the first to uncover this madness. After becoming public, several other cities began airing their 'dirty laundry'.

There have been millions and millions in settlements in my state. Former Cardinal Bernard Law was guilty of moving priests around and around and around, burying the problem and causing so much anguish and hurt and struggle for so many young boys.

The church is made of men. And they disgraced the Catholic religion.

sidebar: GREAT avatar of Larry David :guitarist

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:07 am

Katy1 wrote: Hi all,

I have just watched a very shocking report about the wholesale cover up of paedophilia within the Catholic priesthood. It seems that there is actually a written decree (which priests are ordered to keep locked up) that states that offences against children by clergy are to be kept utterly and completely within the church, even if it means frightening children into silence. All to keep the priests' names clean. In some cases priests were simply moved on again and again to difference Diocese abusing further as they were moved on and on again. This is worldwide, it is a policy that the present pope himself was in charge of enforcing the last 20 yrs or so, I don't know if popes can 'resign' but if i were a Catholic then I'd be campaigning for his removal from the Vatican.

Research has shown that abuse was 'endemic' rather than 'epidemic'.

Rather than regurgitate all the info have a read of this;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/p ... 389684.stm

It's an absolute disgrace.

Katy:mad:
You're right Katy, it is a disgrace. I wish I could say I'm surprised.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:10 am

one can only hope they are changing...

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:16 am

You know I'm not a massive fan of religion per se but it seems a real perversion for an organisation which is meant to spread 'the word of god' and goodness being so evil. I don't use that word freely but I can't think of a better one really. To have a policy of withholding criminal evidence from the authorities and actually moving abusers to new places where they abuse again, all with the blessing of the Pope himself is just insane. Someone was quoted as saying it was more like the actions of the Mafia rather than a religious institution and I tend to agree.....

PS C & B-thanks-Larry David is a comic genious IMHO.:wah:

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:19 am

Katy1 wrote: To have a policy of withholding criminal evidence from the authorities and actually moving abusers to new places where they abuse again, all with the blessing of the Pope himself is just insane.

PS C & B-thanks-Larry David is a comic genious IMHO.:wah:

Katy :-6

It's more than just insane. It's criminal.

And I agree with you about Larry David -- he is just fabulous! :guitarist

weber · Post by **weber** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:56 am

Oh, if the Catholic Church were the only abusers in the world. how I wish.

AnswerMe · Post by **AnswerMe** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:29 am

it is sad how such holy figures do such things.... makes you think twice about who you can trust these days..:-3

Blackjack · Post by **Blackjack** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:55 am

The Catholic Church's inability and unwillingness to deal with the problem has certainly set an excellent example of how not to handle a crisis, but this particular document has been portrayed deceptively (and for quite a while now.) If you read more than just the parts which are marked, you see that it threatens excommunication to those who fail to report misuse of the confessional to solicit sex. The (excessive, perhaps) emphasis on secrecy isn't surprising because whatever happens in the confessional is meant to be kept completely confidential for the sake of those making confessions.

It doesn't say anywhere that authorities are not to be notified in the event that something illegal occurs, as the procedures called for here also apply to cases where adults are propositioned during confession even if does not involve anything that would be illegal according to national law.

I strongly suspect that this document was never actually confidential despite the stamp on the English version (missing from the original Latin document.) If they had really wanted it to be confidential I don't see why they would have translated it into English in the first place.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:36 am

Seems far more prevalent among Catholic priests than other religious instructors. I wonder if it's because of the requirement for celibacy?

Blackjack · Post by **Blackjack** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:50 am

Katy1 wrote: Seems far more prevalent among Catholic priests than other religious instructors.
It does indeed seem that way because you hear so much about it, but is it in fact?

I don't know myself, I was just wondering if there are any reliable figures on the matter.

Katy1 wrote: I wonder if it's because of the requirement for celibacy?

U.S. Congressmen aren't required to be celibate and look at them go, the Foley scandal is not an isolated incident. I think it's a matter of the wrong people finding their way into positions of authority over others, people who had no business holding such positions even if they had been married.

woppy71 · Post by **woppy71** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:04 am

Unfortunately, people always tend to defend strongly those things that they believe in. Some people will do anything, ANYTHING, to defend and protect the faith.

It's a sad and very serious situation that needs proper and thorugh investigation by the law authorities. The church can not be allowed to be above the law.

Chickadee · Post by **Chickadee** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:11 am

I've always wondered about the requirement for celibacy. To be celibate simply means to be unmarried. Is that the goal? Or should the requirement be to remain chaste? Now that means something else entirely, and that really seems to be the assumption with priests. We think chastity, but we say celibacy.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:12 am

flopstock wrote: Excuse me? Celibacy the issue? I think you are confusing sex with rape. I have no complaint with a priest going out and hooking up with a consenting adult of any persuation.

But, if I hit a dry spell in my sex life, trust me.. I DO NOT get the urge to fondle childen. End of discussion.

Sorry Flopstock but you must have misuderstood me. I wouldn't be as ignorant as to assume that if you are deprived of sex that you turn to rape children!

What I meant if I can elaborate is that if you ask the majority of men if they could go without sexual contact for the rest of their lives i would imagine you'd get a resounding no, probably most women as well but that's another issue. Lets say a man thinks that he has a predilection for underage children, well going without a relationship with an adult wouldn't matter to them. If they became a Catholic priest in fact they wouldn't even raise eyebrows if they couldn't hold down a relationship with the opposite sex. Add to that the opportunity to groom families choirboys/girl and other children in church related activities all under the guise of 'religious guidance' and you've got an avenue that might well be attractive to a predatory paedophile.

Tbh, for a man to remain celibate all their adult life either denotes a massive dedication to a faith disregarding your own desires (which IMHO is a bit odd anyway, but hey) or, a psychological problem possibly in relating to and holding down decent relationships with another adult individual.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:17 am

If you Google 'Catholic priests/child abuse' and then do the same with say, 'Rabii/child abuse' or whatver you will see what I mean! Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about.

Katy

weber · Post by **weber** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:39 am

There is so much child abuse today, sexual and otherwise, and I think this obsession with the Catholic Church and child abuse is a giant cover up for the rest of the world child abuse. Child abuse in the home is the worst child abuse there can be and Catholic priest child abuse is small in comparison. Home child abuse produces children that are recognizable as children who will take it and not tell because they have been taught to do that at home.

Just my opinion but if I wanted to stop child abuse I'd start elsewhere than the Catholic Church although I have got to admit it is gross and the coverup is even more gross.

I am Catholic and sometimes not too proud of it.

And confession.....I don't do it anymore but when I did it wasn't to avoid punishment, believe me. It was punishment to go.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:47 pm

weber wrote: Oh, if the Catholic Church were the only abusers in the world. how I wish.

Everyone else has a fair chance of going to prison. How many priests have gone? In my diocese the bishop decided not to release the names of offending priests. Secular law cannot touch them? I guess not. We see by cardinal Law's actions that canon law does not protect the children, but the offenders.

Mostly, I blame the parents of the molested children for not paying attention and for not pursuing legal avenues once they found out. The priest is 'alter Christi', meaning another Christ, and enjoys the highest veneration. Don't say anything against the church ......... or ...... anathema!

What standards should the RCC uphold? The highest? Well, it never has to begin with.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:52 pm

Katy1 wrote: Seems far more prevalent among Catholic priests than other religious instructors. I wonder if it's because of the requirement for celibacy?

Celibacy is the act of not getting married. It does not imply chastity. But, pedophilia is a sickness, from the perverted mind of monsters. The rest of the priesthood usually has adult relationships with women. Marriage would help them very much.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:01 pm

Chickadee wrote: I've always wondered about the requirement for celibacy. To be celibate simply means to be unmarried. Is that the goal? Or should the requirement be to remain chaste? Now that means something else entirely, and that really seems to be the assumption with priests. We think chastity, but we say celibacy.
You are correct about the difference. The goal is to be unmarried. Married priests have wife and children that supposedly draw attention from the job. Other denomiations do quite well despite married ministers.

Wife and children also inherit.

Quote:

Celibacy is physically unnatural and can result in physical problems, especially in men unless they masturbate so the body is used as it was intended. Prostate blockage and painful wet dreams are often the bodies reaction to the unnatural act of celibacy. This is what I experienced as a teen and young adult, believing the lies of the fundamentalists that totally twisted the bible to make me feel sex was somehow wrong before marriage.

----

The idea of Catholic celibacy is especially foolish when you realize the reason behind it:

Before the middle ages it was allowable for Catholic priests to have multiple wives and mistresses (concubines). But with concerns for protecting Church property from inheritance Pope Pelagius I made new priests agree offspring could not inherit Church property. Pope Gregory then declared all sons of priests illegitimate (only sons since lowly daughters could not inherit anyway in society).

In 1022 Pope Benedict VIII banned marriages and concubines for priests and in 1139 Pope Innocent II voided all marriages of priests and all new priests had to divorce their wives. This had nothing to do with morality, multiple women for males had long been the norm since before biblical times, but it was about MONEY!

For many resources confirming this see: The History of Catholic Celibacy

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/celibacy.html

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:10 pm

Hi Katy, I just wanted to reply to your post on this subject.

I have just watched a very shocking report about the wholesale cover up of paedophilia within the Catholic priesthood. It seems that there is actually a written decree (which priests are ordered to keep locked up) that states that offences against children by clergy are to be kept utterly and completely within the church, even if it means frightening children into silence. All to keep the priests' names clean. In some cases priests were simply moved on again and again to difference Diocese abusing further as they were moved on and on again. This is worldwide, it is a policy that the present pope himself was in charge of enforcing the last 20 yrs or so, I don't know if popes can 'resign' but if i were a Catholic then I'd be campaigning for his removal from the Vatican.

Seems far more prevalent among Catholic priests than other religious instructors. I wonder if it's because of the requirement for celibacy?

Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about.

It is true, that priests who were abusing children were moved around from place to place after the abuse became known to the hierarchy of the church. I've NEVER heard that children were frightened into silence except maybe by the individual doing the abusing. Having been raised a Catholic and having a predominantly Catholic family on my fathers side, I can say that campaigning for the removal of the pope will NEVER happen.

Sexual abuse more prevelent among Catholics? Not too sure about that one. I think it is just more well known because it happened within the church and if a man of God can't be trusted, then who can. A few bad apples are giving a whole bunch a bad name - that is what I find disgusting. If it were their requirement for celibacy that made them pedophiles then we would be hearing the same about the Buddhist monks as well.

I think what draws pedophiles to Catholicism could be the access they have to children (the way pedophiles are drawn to teaching, daycares, etc...). I also think it has to do with the abuse being generational. Many priests who are pedophiles were themselves sexually abused as children by their clergy. Their whole view of sexuality, religion and God is so completely distorted.

The Catholic church has an ugly history (it is one of the reasons I no longer practice - among other reasons).

I agree that something more should be done. Recently I read that a priest did go to prison for sexual abuse and was murdered soon after. Justice I guess some could call that.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:22 pm

Katy1 wrote: If you Google 'Catholic priests/child abuse' and then do the same with say, 'Rabii/child abuse' or whatver you will see what I mean! Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about.Perhaps spelling Rabbi would improve your hit rate. http://theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabu ... gy%20Abuse seems to fit your bill.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:29 am

Celibacy for priests is not mentioned anywhere in the bible as a requirement for priests. The concept comes from putting oneself in a position where God is able to come first before family or spouse etc... But then the Catholic religion is not based on the bible. It is man made doctrine created to accomplish many unhealthy things. #1 Dominance of males #2 Fear

are just two. The fear part keeps the parisoners contributing to an organization that is right up there in power with government. The prieshood

draws tormented , sexually deviant males who are riddled with guilt about any form of sexuality, and these men are also very angry. They have chosen to live abnormal loveless lives in exchange for room board and a limited amount of power. They often are void of compassion or the ability to empathise with laymen as they have no concept of real life. I gave the catholic religion up almost 40 years ago realizing that to follow it was an excercise in futility and that it never would provide pats to personal spiritual growth. When the first incidences of priests sexually molesting boys was revealed, and when I further learned of the cover ups... I thanked God for the spiritual wisdom he gave me as a young girl to be able to discern a very unhealthy clergy. My heart bleeds for the devot and committed Catholics who blindly trusted the church to have the best interests of their children at heart. What I find really apalling are the followers who continue to support the church and to pay homage to the leaders of the church who are responsible ( and take no responsibility for these horriffic and unforgivable actions, PS. My dad is one of those blind followers.

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:18 am

Poppycock, Weeder:rolleyes:

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:56 am

weeder wrote: Celibacy for priests is not mentioned anywhere in the bible as a requirement for priests. The concept comes from putting oneself in a position where God is able to come first before family or spouse etc... But then the Catholic religion is not based on the bible. It is man made doctrine created to accomplish many unhealthy things. #1 Dominance of males #2 Fear

are just two. The fear part keeps the parisoners contributing to an organization that is right up there in power with government. The prieshood

draws tormented , sexually deviant males who are riddled with guilt about any form of sexuality, and these men are also very angry. They have chosen to live abnormal loveless lives in exchange for room board and a limited amount of power. They often are void of compassion or the ability to empathise with laymen as they have no concept of real life. I gave the catholic religion up almost 40 years ago realizing that to follow it was an excercise in futility and that it never would provide pats to personal spiritual growth. When the first incidences of priests sexually molesting boys was revealed, and when I further learned of the cover ups... I thanked God for the spiritual wisdom he gave me as a young girl to be able to discern a very unhealthy clergy. My heart bleeds for the devot and committed Catholics who blindly trusted the church to have the best interests of their children at heart. What I find really apalling are the followers who continue to support the church and to pay homage to the leaders of the church who are responsible ( and take no responsibility for these horriffic and unforgivable actions, PS. My dad is one of those blind followers.
Great testimony! I'm so glad you used the good sense God gave you to see the 'church' for what it is. A festering boil on satan's arse. Every catholic is a participant in these practices, until they are shrugged off and left behind.

The claims of the church that salvation is found only within her hollowed walls, are preposterous. Good thing God is not mocked and HE will repay.

Good blessings to you!

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

spot wrote: Perhaps spelling Rabbi would improve your hit rate. http://theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabu ... gy%20Abuse seems to fit your bill.
How do you know she spelled it incorrectly during her search? That's why we have people like you to make sure the rest of us are duly corrected and completely informed. :wah:

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:05 am

Atsila wrote: Great testimony! I'm so glad you used the good sense God gave you to see the 'church' for what it is. A festering boil on satan's arse. Every catholic is a participant in these practices, until they are shrugged off and left behind.

The claims of the church that salvation is found only within her hollowed walls, are preposterous. Good thing God is not mocked and HE will repay.

Good blessings to you!

Gatzilla has returned...

and spewing more hateful nonsense

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:28 am

Atsila wrote: Great testimony! I'm so glad you used the good sense God gave you to see the 'church' for what it is. A festering boil on satan's arse. Every catholic is a participant in these practices, until they are shrugged off and left behind.

The claims of the church that salvation is found only within her hollowed walls, are preposterous. Good thing God is not mocked and HE will repay.

Good blessings to you!

There is no church on the face of this earth that deserves that kind of contemptible talk. The Catholic Church is not perfect, nor is any other church on the face of this earth perfect. I am Catholic and see the church for what it is and could find no other church any better so I don't go to church. And I don't speak of such garbage of other churches and it surely could be done, just different garbage but just as bad

Anyone who gets some sense of good feeling by speaking so lowly of any church, that person has some kind of problem whereby they need to bolster their own self or church at the expense of another.

And I edit....if there is a festering boil on the arse anywhere, it is on the arse of the poster quoted above.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:32 am

The prieshood

draws tormented , sexually deviant males who are riddled with guilt about any form of sexuality, and these men are also very angry. They have chosen to live abnormal loveless lives in exchange for room board and a limited amount of power.

Weeder,

Why are you lumping a few into a whole sum?

Do you know every priest, do you know their intentions when they entered into a vow of celibacy? Do you know their faith? I find it odd that you seem to know so much about these people - especially when you don't know each one individually.

I left the church and no longer consider myself labelled. But I think anyone who would make blank statements about the church (any church) and their followers are just as ignorant as those who think their religion is the only "right" and that those who do not practice are the evil ones. Your judging an entire group of people based on a few - do you do that with everything in your life?

Anyone who gets some sense of good feeling by speaking so lowly of any church, that person has some kind of problem whereby they need to bolster their own self or church at the expense of another.

And I edit....if there is a festering boil on the arse anywhere, it is on the arse of the poster quoted above.

I second that point!

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:32 am

weber wrote: And I edit....if there is a festering boil on the arse anywhere, it is on the arse of the poster quoted above.

:yh_rotfl go girl...

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:38 am

spot wrote: Perhaps spelling Rabbi would improve your hit rate. http://theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabu ... gy%20Abuse seems to fit your bill.

Ouch! Your cutting sarcasm has severed my irreverent typing fingers. You should sleep more easy now.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:02 pm

Katy1 wrote: Ouch! Your cutting sarcasm has severed my irreverent typing fingers. You should sleep more easy now.It's odd, Katy. Neither you nor Atsila commented on the contrast between what you posted and what I pointed out, both of you tried to make a wisecrack about it instead. What's wrong with discussing the material instead of walking away from it? "If you Google 'Catholic priests/child abuse' and then do the same with say, 'Rabii/child abuse' or whatver you will see what I mean! Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about." was your original text, if you need a point to return to. What is it we were meant to see?

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:33 pm

spot wrote: It's odd, Katy. Neither you nor Atsila commented on the contrast between what you posted and what I pointed out, both of you tried to make a wisecrack about it instead. What's wrong with discussing the material instead of walking away from it? "If you Google 'Catholic priests/child abuse' and then do the same with say, 'Rabii/child abuse' or whatver you will see what I mean! Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about." was your original text, if you need a point to return to. What is it we were meant to see?

C'mon Spot. I'd left this thread alone because I'd said a lot of what I'd wanted to and just peeped back in to have a look and noticed that you'd been as pedantic as to pick up on a typo, was your comment not provocative? I don't know if you were trying to imply that I was stupid and couldn't spell Rabbi or you had realised that I'd slipped when typing. I presumed the former, you tell me? There's no underlying reason that either of us picked up on your comment other than it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are cases of Rabbi of abusing children but there are far more cases of catholic clergy doing the same. To be honest I'm not sure what you were trying to prove by providing a single website. There are paedophiles in all walks of life, of course. but the cover up in the Catholic church is massive and that was what I was initially discussing.

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:46 pm

spot wrote: It's odd, Katy. Neither you nor Atsila commented on the contrast between what you posted and what I pointed out, both of you tried to make a wisecrack about it instead. What's wrong with discussing the material instead of walking away from it? "If you Google 'Catholic priests/child abuse' and then do the same with say, 'Rabii/child abuse' or whatver you will see what I mean! Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about." was your original text, if you need a point to return to. What is it we were meant to see?

Every profession of privacy sports child abuse. I found about Rabbi child abuse. Child abuse is everywhere, done by everybody. It runs rampant in all religions but is kept quiet wherever it happens. The worst place it happens is in the home by parents and relatives who teach the very young children to take it an keep quiet. Many children are primed to be recognized as children who will take it and keep quiet and members of all professions take advantage of it...doctors, lawyers, teachers, priests, and yes ministers(I know of a couple right here in my home town), and rabbis and how about those wonderful sports trainers and their children getting medals for them. We think the people gathered at the bottom of the mountain waiting for Moses were gross pigs. Well we are not far away from that and maybe worse. I have material on Rabbis...........

Hers was one of many stories aired at "Breaking the Silence: A Forum on Child Abuse in the Jewish Community," held recently at San Francisco's Congregation Beth Sholom. Robbins was on a four-member panel whose speakers also included Kaiser Permanente Medical Center pediatrician and neonatologist Ami Goodman from here.....

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/mo ... story.html

You see, what happens is that you put in child abuse or abuse of any sort and all that comes up is the Catholic Church taking the rap for everybody else. But I persisted in how I put it in. If anybody else would like some dirt about their church or whatever, just let me know because I'll shake it until I get the truth. And the truth is that everybody that can get away with it is abusing children. So I would thank you to shut up about the Catholic Church and work on someone else. The list of offenders is long and there are many children in the world.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:57 pm

weber wrote: There is no church on the face of this earth that deserves that kind of contemptible talk. The Catholic Church is not perfect, nor is any other church on the face of this earth perfect. I am Catholic and see the church for what it is and could find no other church any better so I don't go to church. And I don't speak of such garbage of other churches and it surely could be done, just different garbage but just as bad

Anyone who gets some sense of good feeling by speaking so lowly of any church, that person has some kind of problem whereby they need to bolster their own self or church at the expense of another.

And I edit....if there is a festering boil on the arse anywhere, it is on the arse of the poster quoted above.
I have not even begun to be contemptible. The catholic church is a pagan institution and makes no bones about it. Do some research, don't get back to me, I've done my studies. As for other churches? They are offspring of the mother of harlots, and more or less in imitation of her. I do NOT forget that churches are filled with people. Of course, they defer their personal responsibilities toward their God to the collective hope to find salvation as Borg.

If you see the church for what it is, really really see, then what are you doing being a catholic?

As for the good feelings I get? No discussion about catholicism makes me feel good. But I do get good feelings when people say................'I see her for what she is and left her'.............that's cause for praise and celebration.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:02 pm

weber wrote: Every profession of privacy sports child abuse. I found about Rabbi child abuse. Child abuse is everywhere, done by everybody. It runs rampant in all religions but is kept quiet wherever it happens. The worst place it happens is in the home by parents and relatives who teach the very young children to take it an keep quiet. Many children are primed to be recognized as children who will take it and keep quiet and members of all professions take advantage of it...doctors, lawyers, teachers, priests, and yes ministers(I know of a couple right here in my home town), and rabbis and how about those wonderful sports trainers and their children getting medals for them. We think the people gathered at the bottom of the mountain waiting for Moses were gross pigs. Well we are not far away from that and maybe worse. I have material on Rabbis...........

Hers was one of many stories aired at "Breaking the Silence: A Forum on Child Abuse in the Jewish Community," held recently at San Francisco's Congregation Beth Sholom. Robbins was on a four-member panel whose speakers also included Kaiser Permanente Medical Center pediatrician and neonatologist Ami Goodman from here.....

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/mo ... story.html

You see, what happens is that you put in child abuse or abuse of any sort and all that comes up is the Catholic Church taking the rap for everybody else. But I persisted in how I put it in. If anybody else would like some dirt about their church or whatever, just let me know because I'll shake it until I get the truth. And the truth is that everybody that can get away with it is abusing children. So I would thank you to shut up about the Catholic Church and work on someone else. The list of offenders is long and there are many children in the world.
Ever watch Dateline NBC with Chris Hansen where a rabbi was caught trying to make it with a child? First he did the message board scene, then he followed that up with a visit to the child's home. Graphic is understated.

The rabbi will go to jail. Can you say how many priests have done the same?

Other's I know of who hide their disgusting practices are the JW's and the Mormons. Not exactly mainline Christianity.

All All All will get what they deserve, God does and will repay. You can read about it in the Bible and be amazed by HIS patience and longsuffering.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:04 pm

spot wrote: It's odd, Katy. Neither you nor Atsila commented on the contrast between what you posted and what I pointed out, both of you tried to make a wisecrack about it instead. What's wrong with discussing the material instead of walking away from it? "If you Google 'Catholic priests/child abuse' and then do the same with say, 'Rabii/child abuse' or whatver you will see what I mean! Something about catholicism seems to attract these people and I was throwing an idea about." was your original text, if you need a point to return to. What is it we were meant to see?
What I saw you point out is your determination to maintain a superiority over ordinary humanity. The rest of your pointings were well-hidden behind that facade.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:05 pm

Katy1 wrote: C'mon Spot. I'd left this thread alone because I'd said a lot of what I'd wanted to and just peeped back in to have a look and noticed that you'd been as pedantic as to pick up on a typo, was your comment not provocative? I don't know if you were trying to imply that I was stupid and couldn't spell Rabbi or you had realised that I'd slipped when typing. I presumed the former, you tell me? There's no underlying reason that either of us picked up on your comment other than it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are cases of Rabbi of abusing children but there are far more cases of catholic clergy doing the same. To be honest I'm not sure what you were trying to prove by providing a single website. There are paedophiles in all walks of life, of course. but the cover up in the Catholic church is massive and that was what I was initially discussing.I wouldn't dispute the massive. I'd dispute the "far more cases of", unless you have comparative numbers to back the suggestion. You could as easily theorise "there's a whole load of people on the Internet who want to slag of Roman Catholicism because they're bigoted", surely. That fits well with my experience.

To say google A and there's lots, google B for comparison and "you will see what I mean", while mistyping B to a text that has no hits, is either grossly deceptive or inexcusably careless.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:06 pm

zinkyusa wrote: :yh_rotfl go girl...
Study to show yourself approved...........then you'll have no trouble finding where it really is.

Atsila · Post by **Atsila** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:08 pm

spot wrote: I wouldn't dispute the massive. I'd dispute the "far more cases of", unless you have comparative numbers to back the suggestion. You could as easily theorise "there's a whole load of people on the Internet who want to slag of Roman Catholicism because they're bigoted", surely. That fits well with my experience.

To say google A and there's lots, google B for comparison and "you will see what I mean", while mistyping B to a text that has no hits, is either grossly deceptive or inexcusably careless.
Again, how do you know she mis-typed in her google search? Get off it and get it on.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:09 pm

Atsila wrote: What I saw you point out is your determination to maintain a superiority over ordinary humanity. The rest of your pointings were well-hidden behind that facade.Were I as determinedly pedantic and superior as you assert, I'd have brought up the vexed question of apostrophes. Since I haven't (in the face, I might say, of astounding provocation from one whom I'm sure knows their exact application) I feel your claim lacks substance.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:11 pm

Atsila wrote: Again, how do you know she mis-typed in her google search? Get off it and get it on.How on earth does your question relate to my post? It's a total irrelevance what she typed in her google search, what matters is what she invited people to do in order to substantiate her claim.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:13 pm

Atsila wrote: Study to show yourself approved...........then you'll have no trouble finding where it really is.

are you speaking to me in tongues dear girl?

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:14 pm

Atsila wrote: Study to show yourself approved...........then you'll have no trouble finding where it really is.

May I ask why your profile is private?

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:17 pm

cherandbuster wrote: May I ask why your profile is private?

she's shy...

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:19 pm

Atsila wrote: I have not even begun to be contemptible. The catholic church is a pagan institution and makes no bones about it. Do some research, don't get back to me, I've done my studies. As for other churches? They are offspring of the mother of harlots, and more or less in imitation of her. I do NOT forget that churches are filled with people. Of course, they defer their personal responsibilities toward their God to the collective hope to find salvation as Borg.

If you see the church for what it is, really really see, then what are you doing being a catholic?

As for the good feelings I get? No discussion about catholicism makes me feel good. But I do get good feelings when people say................'I see her for what she is and left her'.............that's cause for praise and celebration.

Astila

You have got to stop your trampling of the Roman Catholic Church. No church is perfect. All churches have their hidden agenda of sins. The Catholic Church just happens to be the largest and a good target. You continue your tasteless diabolical attack of the Catholic Church and all you do is bury yourself. No one ever became famous or loved by doing what you are doing. I personally think you are behaving in a disgusting manner that would be worthy of a click of the little red and white button. Sooner or later someone is going to do it. It won't be me because I won't lower myself to your level.

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:31 pm

Thanks Zinky

but now it is in your post as Spot, I should be shot, there I am a poet and I have just decreed that there are no longer any churches in the world, everybody stay home on whatever day you usually go to church.