America-the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah

David813 · Post by **David813** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:59 am

Sounds like a terrific reason for you to pack up and leave Skittles! Iran and Saudi Arabia have none of the vices you mention, except of course the religious police do murder non-believers. May I help you with airfare??

RedSoxFan · Post by **RedSoxFan** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:19 pm

David813 wrote: Sounds like a terrific reason for you to pack up and leave Skittles! Iran and Saudi Arabia have none of the vices you mention, except of course the religious police do murder non-believers. May I help you with airfare??

David, You dont worship the Bible? Oh man, youre going to hell.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:32 pm

skittles2004 wrote: No thanks!Are you sure? Cuz life here will only get more upsetting for you. You see, people who once had civil rights trampled are now fighting to gain them. People are fighting to get the remainder of religion out of the government where it certainly does not belong. The parallels that you draw will only continue to increase.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:51 pm

wooo hoooo.. sounds like an early Shakedown Street.. life is good... partyon people.. hehehehehehe......

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:57 pm

skittles2004 wrote: I feel that America has become the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah for many reasons. We are allowing same sex marriages, we have drunkards almost everywhere, we are taking the bible out of school's, we have hookers and premarital sex and I'm pretty sure we have the most murders. And we say were a country of morals! Can someone go against what I am saying I really don't want to be believing my thoughts of America.
Many many parts of this country are still "old-fashioned." Sure, the big urban areas match up nicely with what you described. The media doesn't focus on the boring country areas and less populated states.

Maybe you should move to another area of the country? What state and city do you live in?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:05 pm

Skittles would be ecstatic to visit a Party of God nation like Iran! They execute homosexuals on sight, ban dating so NO premarital sex, alcohol is forbidden, all media is controlled by the religious police state and intolerance is CELEBRATED! The U.S. has quite enough people like you. Actually, I think you should move to San Francisco to shake out the hatefest thriving inside you!

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:09 pm

Oh no David813.. don't send Skittles there.. Haight Ashbury would implode under such a straight and narrow view...

David813 · Post by **David813** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:13 pm

You're right Greyhead. S.F. doesn't need that kind of pollution! Tehran it is!!!!

RedSoxFan · Post by **RedSoxFan** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:17 pm

skittles2004 wrote: we are taking the bible out of school's

They should'nt be in the public schools anyways. Thats what they have private schools and home-schooling for and various other institutions.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:29 pm

With so many kids unable to do simple math or read above the 7th grade what justification is there to dump the bible on top of it all? Keep your religion at home. Let's educate our young, not threaten them with hellfire if they don't conform to your personal values.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:53 pm

Ya' know skittles, if you spent half the energy looking for something good in the world as you do looking for the negative, you would be amazed at the things you'd find.

There is "bad" everywhere. You can't escape it unless you want to become a hermit. Or, you could go out and change things. It's been done once or twice before. By people with a little insight, a bit of hard work, positive thinking.... :-5

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:16 pm

skittles2004 wrote: I feel that America has become the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah for many reasons. We are allowing same sex marriages, we have drunkards almost everywhere, we are taking the bible out of school's, we have hookers and premarital sex and I'm pretty sure we have the most murders. And we say were a country of morals! Can someone go against what I am saying I really don't want to be believing my thoughts of America.
If America is becoming the modern day "Sodom & Gomorrah", how does this effect you Skittles, on a personal level? For that matter, how does it effect me?

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:30 pm

It's a little late to change the world. Be healthy and accept & then look at the positive side. We are much better off today than 100 years ago. I know i wouldn't have time to scrub clothes, burn wood to cook a meal & then die because of lack of medicine. I say put aside the negative, because it is not going away & start living. :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:45 pm

http://www.matthewfox.org/sys-tmpl/rece ... atthewfox/

It's amazing what you can do when you learn a few things about this damned machine. Anyway the above site contains some articles that comment on both of the above mentioned "problems". Articles by Matthew Fox.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:53 pm

BabyRider wrote: Ya' know skittles, if you spent half the energy looking for something good in the world as you do looking for the negative, you would be amazed at the things you'd find.

There is "bad" everywhere.

C'mon you guys. Skittles isn't America bashing, (although it might sound like it) She's just a little disillusioned. I think she's a young person who's just finding out that the world isn't really like the "The Flintstones" or "The Jetsons". There are hard choices, difficult decisions and huge grey areas in life.

Something you should remember, Skittles, is that although America has problems, so do all the other countries of humankind in the world.

In America, we drag our problems out into the light and discuss them. Sometimes vehemently. It's one of the things that make us great. If you truly don't want some of those things in your country, it''s easy...just raise your own children your way, and get out and vote. If enough people don't like something in our country, it becomes illegal. If enough people want something it becomes law.

Remember...in other countries, your post could have caused your family to disappear overnight, be replaced by another family in your house. And in the morning, the neighbors would act like they never heard of you.

America isn't all that bad.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:00 pm

Ahhhh Jives the voice of reason shining thru.. you do make a very very valid point..

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:52 pm

NO WAY. Nah you got that wrong. Europe was,and is today.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:29 pm

The following list gives me a lot of concern.1. Powerful and continuing nationalism employing constant use of patriotic slogans, symbols, songs, flags.

2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights because security needs outweigh human rights which can be ignored.

3. Using enemies as scapegoats for a unifying cause.

4. Supremacy of the military.

5. Rampant sexism including more rigid gender roles and anti-gay legislation.

6. Controlled mass media.

7. Obsession with national security driven by a politics of fear.

8. Religion and Government are intertwined especially in rhetoric employed by its leaders.

9. Corporate power is protectedÃ¢â‚¬industrial and business aristocracies put government leaders into power and keep them there creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor power, which represents one of the few threats to fascism, is suppressed.

11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts and hostility to higher education along with censorship of arts or refusal to support the arts.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.

14. Fraudulent Elections.

If this is happening in the US. it should give all Americans as well as the rest of the free world a great deal of concern. Is the US. heading towards fascism? The list was compiled by Dr. Lawrence Britt.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:34 pm

Jives, I didn't think skittles was America bashing. (Do you think I would have been that easy on her if I did?? :yh_wink )

I have a very short tolerance for negativity, is all. Look for bad, you're sure to find it. Look for good, you're sure to find that, too.

Negativity, in all aspects of our life, is self-defeating and non-productive. Get caught up in the cycle of negativity, and you will poison your mind and stunt your growth. Just my opinion! :yh_peace

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:53 pm

Perhaps we could have avoided WW II if we had just looked for the positive in the Nazi party instead of the negative.

I too am in favour of looking for the positive but not at the expense of burying my head in the sand. That could be dangerous.

Shalom

Ted :-6

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:36 pm

Ted wrote: Perhaps we could have avoided WW II if we had just looked for the positive in the Nazi party instead of the negative.

I too am in favour of looking for the positive but not at the expense of burying my head in the sand. That could be dangerous.

Shalom

Ted :-6Was that a shot? :yh_bigsmi

You're talking about history, and I'm talking about just generally trying to have a positive outlook. Being an optimist does not entail "burying my head in the sand." You and I are just on separate pages. Did you read my previous post to Skittles about trying to affect change? Or just calling me an ostrich because of this one post? (I'm yanking your chain just a bit, Ted. :yh_angel )

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:54 pm

I've read all the posts here as they have happened and this is my first response. I think all societies become corrupt. It is a timeless tale.

CVX · Post by **CVX** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:55 pm

I think some of you are being too hard on Skittles. I appreciate Skittles' courage to post and voice concerns about topics that concern him/her.

Wild Weasil · Post by **Wild Weasil** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:11 am

Dear whoever,

If you think the U.S. is not all it should be, you are probably right, but ask yourself this; where is?

Another point to bear in mind is this-if America is so bad, why do so many countries and citizens in the rest of the world try their damndest to emulate what they see in your great country?

I love my country and although there is much I would change in it I thank God that I can say I dont like a certain thing without somebody putting me in prison (or worse); and one of the reasons that I can speak my mind is that another great country (yours) fought for those same rights with Britain and the other allies during the war and once that unpleasentness was over stood firm with other like minded countries post war to ensure those sacred rights werent lost.

Anyhow, thats just my opinion for what its worth. :-2

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:04 pm

Ted wrote: The following list gives me a lot of concern.
i have a lot of problems with the list. it's based upon selective vision, and exaggeration of tendencies.

1. Powerful and continuing nationalism employing constant use of patriotic slogans, symbols, songs, flags.nationalism is not bad. nationalism is good. extreme nationalism, and isolationism, are bad. there are tendencies by some towards extreme nationalism. there are also tendencies by some towards extreme globalism. that doesn't mean this country is top-heavy in either direction.

2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights because security needs outweigh human rights which can be ignored.
disdain? i disagree. there is always a balancing act going on between human rights and security needs. there is a tension there, and it'll always be there. in the main, human rights are very, very, very well protected here in the united states. there are, and always will be transgressions, ranging from the heinous to the merely uncomfortable. the recent problem at airports where security personnel began essentially 'feeling up' female passengers breasts, because of an incident where a suicide bomber filled a bra with plastic explosives (geez, i can think of a half dozen jokes that would go along with that one). on the other hand, there is a tendency to go the other way, in being so concerned about being accused of racial profiling that clearly middle-eastern/arabic looking passengers are as a matter of policy *not* more carefully screened than other passengers - which is just nuts. islamic extremists are almost all of middle-eastern extraction - screening them with a bit more rigor than others is *not* inappropriate.

3. Using enemies as scapegoats for a unifying cause.frankly, i'm baffled by this. how can a true enemy be a scapegoat? this country has enemies. people who wish to see our nation and way of life destroyed, because we are infidels. our 'unifying cause' is to protect our way of life from those enemies. if the 'unifying cause' mentioned is intended to suggest ulterior motives - turning this into a 'christian' nation, or fulfilling bible prophecy, or simply hatred of those swarthy arabs - well, there's always a conspiracy crowd out there to fill the need.

4. Supremacy of the military.
not here. perhaps this refers to china. or north korea. who knows. supremacy: supreme power/authority. no such thing exists in the united states. we have *military superiority*, but it serves the people. we don't have a military that on its own goes on expeditions and mounts battles and wars on its own, with no control by any other authority. last i checked, we still vote, have representatives, a supreme court, and a president.

5. Rampant sexism including more rigid gender roles and anti-gay legislation.rampant sexism? was this written in 1967? i'm sorry, i know few Mrs. Cleavers. those who do fulfill that role do so of their own choosing. Hewlett Packard's CEO the last several years was Carly Fiorina. i'm pretty sure she wasn't baking cakes for the board of directors.

anti-gay legislation? finally, a postulate in the list i can recognize! yes, there is a significant trend in anti-gay legislation. which goes very much against the principles of civil and individual rights this country has been evolving over the last few hundred years. frankly, i'm considering writing a book about the subject of gay marriage. i think the 'sub' title of the book will be 'why conservatives and liberals both have their heads up their asses on this issue'.

6. Controlled mass media.an ominous sounding statement. and hogwash. you can buy Mother Jones magazine at any bookstore. I think the John Birch society still publishes their tracts. The main, national TV news - amounting to 30 minutes per day by three networks - tends towards the left. another network, Fox, tends towards the right. oooo, thirty minutes a day of 'propoganda'! outrageous! talk radio? i don't listen to it personally, but i gather that there are a lot more right wing commentators than left wing. amazingly enough, the populace is *not* required to listen to talk radio, nor watch tv news, nor read newspapers. to me, Controlled Mass Media is not the problem, the problem woudl be Controlled Masses, with only one government provided 'channel' for "news". sorry, all hysteria to the contrary, no such illusory state obtains, or has obtained, in this country. i am Free to learn whatever i want about world events. there are sources of all stripe out there, and i'm not prevented in any way from choosing the ones i wish to review. if i want unadulterated news, i just read the reuters newsfeed - one of the few news organizations that really, truly cares about only *reporting* the news, leaving interpretation to the customer.

7. Obsession with national security driven by a politics of fear.okay. i'd hardly call it an obsession. or did we miss mr. kerry repeating over and over how something like 95% of all cargo containers coming into this country are never inspected? if we were obsessed with it, there would be huge fleets of cargo container ships poised offshore, being meticulously inspected, and massive, widespread shortages of goods, with long lines at stores and very short inventory.

there's a good deal of concern with national security. politics of fear? remind me, what happened on september 11, 2001? i can't seem to put my finger on it.

there's good reason for concern, and fear. has the fear been fed by politicians? see above. was mr. kerry serving the public good/safety by repeatedly using that fact to claim that the current administration was not scared enough, and not doing enough? who then was using the politics of fear?

8. Religion and Government are intertwined especially in rhetoric employed by its leaders.
there is no ban on religious rhetoric in government. most politicians will employ religious rhetoric to suit their needs to pander to whatever audience happens to be listening at the time. i think the recently released tapes of conversations mr. bush had with a friend before the 2000 election pretty much put the kibosh on that crap. bush was quite clear that he wasn't going to be a lackey for the conservative christians. does he invoke his *own* faith, and describe its importance in providing guidance to him? sure. as did kerry. as does every politician - again, see above.

9. Corporate power is protectedÃ¢â‚¬industrial and business aristocracies put government leaders into power and keep them there creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
wow. we're really getting into 'black helicopters'/Secret Order/Cabal territory here. of course corporations have power, and have protections. people seem to forget that corporations actually employ real people, and produce real goods, which are consumed by the populace. how horrible! last i checked, we had a fair election for president, and i'm pretty sure that colgate palmolive didn't install arnold schwartzenegger as governor of california - the people did.

10. Labor power, which represents one of the few threats to fascism, is suppressed.
labor power represents 'one of the few threats to fascism'? i did not know that. i thought our federal republic pretty much handled that. and the second amendment.

i'd hardly say labor power is being supressed. i haven't seen any unions dissolved by the government recently.

11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts and hostility to higher education along with censorship of arts or refusal to support the arts.
mmm. michael moore. need i say more? yeah, terrible censorship. the most profitable "documentary" of all time. actually, a skillful work of fiction, absolutely trashing the current administration. remind me, which showings were shut down by the national guard?

12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
i guess it depends upon your definition of obsession. curiously, if there's a lot of crime, people tend to focus on it. even more curiously, crime of all types has been dropping steadily and consistently for quite a few years now in this country. even through an economic downcycle, which many people claimed would cause rates to skyrocket. contrary to the hysteria of some, domestic crime is becoming less of a problem - the US is becoming gradually safer - even with the threat of terrorism.

so, maybe there is an obsession with crime and punishment in the media, and by the consuming public, but i'm puzzled by what deleterious effects that is causing, if crime is going down.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.again, was this written in the 1960's? anyone checked out chicago's politics lately? compare the politics back then with now. cronyism still exists. it's a pale shadow of what it once was.

curiously, the current administration has has orders of magnitude fewer indictments for corruption than the previous administration. hmm.....

14. Fraudulent Elections.ah. we're back to that. bush stole the 2000 election. bush stole the 2004 election. the huge margin of victory in the popular vote doesn't count. it was all black helicopters and agents of the government stuffing ballot boxes and hacking electronic voting machines in ohio, that's what it was.

sigh.

If this is happening in the US. it should give all Americans as well as the rest of the free world a great deal of concern. Is the US. heading towards fascism? no, it's not, not even by the most jaundiced view of current conditions.

The list was compiled by Dr. Lawrence Britt.
here's the unedited list with the good doctor's commentary.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.pdf

First published in Free Inquiry Magazine.

i wonder if you can find copies of Free Inquiry Magazine on newsstands in Havanah?

This post brought to you by Coffee: Coffee, it does a body good. (c) 2005, The Institute for Caffiene Addiction Studies

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:04 pm

skittles2004 wrote: A funny thing is you sound like a teacher I once had.

ROFL! :yh_rotfl

It's just a coincidence. Al us teacher-types sound alike.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:39 pm

Skittles, you made a spelling error too. According to another member alot should be a lot. Just passing that on to you. Have fun & be happy, it really makes a difference. SMILE. :-6

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:18 pm

lol. Whoops! You got me, Skittles!

Oh...and Anastrophe, you just won the "longest post of the year award! But it was extremely well written, and I agreed with everything you said. There is a whole climate of negativity and fear in the US, and frankly, I just don't think that's any way to live.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:15 pm

Jives wrote: and frankly, I just don't think that's any way to live.

That's all I was trying to say. :-5

Thanks Jives!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:14 pm

Babyrider :-6

My statement about the ostrich with his head in the sand was simply a general statement and directed at no one in particular. I was simply raising some issues.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:40 pm

anastrophe :-6

A well written reply even if lengthy.

I'm not going to reply issue by issue or mine too would be lengthy but there are some issues that need to be aired.

I cannot at the moment remember the name of the man who wrote a book and blew the whistle on the true nature of the war in Viet Nam. He was certainly not appreciated by the government and my understanding is that there was some prive talk about how to dispose of him.

That would suggest that the government was misleading the people certainly deserved better.

We look at the present war in Iraq. I have no doubts that good old Saddam needed to be removed. Unfortunately it seems that in spite of all the assertion of WMD there were absolutely none found. Misleading the people to get the okay for a war?

Then of course there is the real issue of why this war in the first place. Perhaps it was more the need for oil?

Let us look at the past for a few moments: Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, Noriega, Pinochet, Marcos, Baptista. All of these were dictators helped into power by the US. It seems to me, an outsider, democracy is okay for the US and so are dictatorships of the right but like McCarthy there might be a red under every bed. When these men no longer served the needs of the US then it was time to get rid of them.

Apparently Saddam used nerve gas on his own people. Where did he get this gas from. The US?

The fundamentalist right clearly put Geordie into power and does he ever know how to play that card. He is excellent at it. Now we get to the gay issue. Once again pandering to the right.

As far as stealing elections goes. I realize that he did win the last election by several million votes. However, the first election is quite questionable in my mind; uncounted ballots and missing ballots etc.

American are being seen around the world as a bully. The country that simply gets what it wants one way or another. It's okay for the other countries to subject themselves to an international court but not the US. What's to fear? America needs to take a long look at its foreign policy. That is why it is so despised by many.

Corporations are in business to make money at any expense and don't care who they step on to get it: Monsanto being one. If a scientist dares to criticize Monsanto he is subject to all manner of abuse. Folks are being subject to genetically created crops even though there are serious questions about the long term safety.

Kyoto is a no no as far as the US is concerned. There is no such thing as global warming the scientists hired by the fossil fuel industries assure us of that. Rather convenient.

Then we come to free trade. Several times the WTO has said that there is no subsidization of the lumber industry in Canada. Yet the US refuses to accept that ruling and now says they probably will keep the 5 billion collected. That is out and out theft. Of course its okay for the US to subsidize there midwestern farmers.

Then we have the beef industry.

Frankly, I have no problem with the average American citizen s/he just wants to go comfortable through life and earn a reasonable living. However, with government policies like that it makes one ask the question. With friends like that who needs enemies.

Don't get me wrong I deplore the comments and language used by several of our politicians. They were wrong.

As for that list. I do have some serious concerns.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:58 pm

anastrophe :-6

Please don't get me wrong. I am not anti-American by any means but I am sincerely upset that a friendly country right next door would act in some of the ways I have suggested.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:59 pm

The name I had forgotten was Daniel Ellsberg and the famous Pentagon Papers that indeed showed that successive presidents had covered up the truths and mislead or lied to the people of the United States.

He has a web site for any of those interested.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:30 pm

In view of the latest UN report on the environment produced by some 1300 scientists it will be interesting to see the US governments response. There response to Kyoto was that it would damage their economy.

Unless they make some serious changes now they won't have an economy to damage in about 60 years. Other countries including Canada need to fall in line and quit playing games.

Is the economy more important then a stable life on this planet?

Shalom

Ted :-6

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:44 pm

global warming, as a man-made phenomenon, is a crock. all one has to do is look at the meteorological data after krakatoa blew up back in 1883 to understand that the global warming theory is an absolute farce. this nonsense that a half degree C increase in average global temperature over the last fifty years actually *means* something borders on the hallucinatory.

think about it for a minute: we're talking about nothing more than average temperature changes, over fifty years, 'measured' at a half degree centigrade. fifty years ago, most temperature readings were made with thermometers barely capable of plus or minus a half degree of accuracy!

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:21 pm

koan wrote: I've read all the posts here as they have happened and this is my first response. I think all societies become corrupt. It is a timeless tale.I agree completely. Here in lies the problem, but what of the solution? Skittles is right though, about, not just our society, but the worlds views on moralities. If one believes in the bible, than we are way off. Most religions and societies promote good morals, but as Koan brought up, the corruption of man is what makes these moral standards a fantasy. Murder, sexual abuse, immorality, thievery, homosexuality, descrimination, gluttony, etc etc, are all things that are objectable, to what ever higher power you look to. But fewer and fewer people are looking toward a higher power at all. I believe church and state should be seperate, but I also believe morals should be taught at home, and that is where we as a society have failed. Our society has slowly slipped from the morals of only a few decades ago. Some may argue that we are more enlightened now, more free. But are we better off? 60 years ago, in America, we had moral issues too. Namely racial descrimination, perhaps sexual descrimination. But you never read of anybody shooting up a school for being picked on, or a day care because he did not want to pay child support. Nor did we see nudity on T.V. or listen to the music that promoted selling drugs and murder or sex to such the extreme as todays music. I think America is a rebelious country at heart, that is how we were founded. It is a great country, but I think we ran out of bad things to rebel against, and started rebeling against good things.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:32 pm

anastrophe wrote: global warming, as a man-made phenomenon, is a crock. all one has to do is look at the meteorological data after krakatoa blew up back in 1883 to understand that the global warming theory is an absolute farce. this nonsense that a half degree C increase in average global temperature over the last fifty years actually *means* something borders on the hallucinatory.

think about it for a minute: we're talking about nothing more than average temperature changes, over fifty years, 'measured' at a half degree centigrade. fifty years ago, most temperature readings were made with thermometers barely capable of plus or minus a half degree of accuracy!
I do agree the world's climate does naturally shift up and down. Some regions dry out, some flood. The simple half degree you refer to is an average. Temps at areas of the Russian Arctic have been reported 16 degrees warmer than normal over the last decade. That is significant and no hallucination. If you think the locals love the warm up you're wrong. Swarms of mosquitoes have spread disease in both humans and animals. Harvests have molded and hunting has been dramatically affected. Never in recorded history has glacial ice melted at such a rapid rate at both poles, the Himalayas, Andes and other high ranges. It's easy to laugh at and disregard the idea man may have had an impact on the global climate, but examining the possibility that we have is something we need to take more seriously in the U.S.

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:02 pm

David813 wrote: Skittles would be ecstatic to visit a Party of God nation like Iran! They execute homosexuals on sight, ban dating so NO premarital sex, alcohol is forbidden, all media is controlled by the religious police state and intolerance is CELEBRATED! The U.S. has quite enough people like you. Actually, I think you should move to San Francisco to shake out the hatefest thriving inside you!

David, I don't want to get into a fight with you but I've read a lot of your posts and I'm sorry but you have no business chatising anyone else as a hater.

I beleive the old saying is the pot calling the kettle black.