Since I've posted about that man who was mauled by a retired police dog, I've been doing more thinking about police dogs in general. I have never approved of the idea of using dogs in police situations. Mainly, I mean sending a dog into a building where a criminal awaits or training a dog to attack criminals. My reason is that it puts the dog at risk. I know some people would say that's better than risking a human life but I disagree completely. A human officer knowingly took on his or her job knowing all the risks implied. He can leave the force if he doesn't want to do that. Where does the dog have a choice?
One of the K-9 dogs in my town dog was shot and killed by a robber during a chase.
Regarding attack dogs, is there really a difference in an officer having a shepherd trained to attack upon command and a civilian having a pit or rott trained for the same purpose? Seemingly both would be able to control their dogs but dogs also have minds of their own and have been known to attack when there was no call for it.
What does everyone else think about using dogs in police work?
Police Dogs?
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Police Dogs?
RedGlitter wrote: Since I've posted about that man who was mauled by a retired police dog, I've been doing more thinking about police dogs in general. I have never approved of the idea of using dogs in police situations. Mainly, I mean sending a dog into a building where a criminal awaits or training a dog to attack criminals. My reason is that it puts the dog at risk. I know some people would say that's better than risking a human life but I disagree completely. A human officer knowingly took on his or her job knowing all the risks implied. He can leave the force if he doesn't want to do that. Where does the dog have a choice?
One of the K-9 dogs in my town dog was shot and killed by a robber during a chase.
Regarding attack dogs, is there really a difference in an officer having a shepherd trained to attack upon command and a civilian having a pit or rott trained for the same purpose? Seemingly both would be able to control their dogs but dogs also have minds of their own and have been known to attack when there was no call for it.
What does everyone else think about using dogs in police work?
This is almost the lamest post I have ever read on any message board. I would sacrifice 100 dogs lives in place of a single human officer. No questions asked.
If a dog doesn't obey his handler and goes off and hurts someone 2 things happen. The dog is put down, and the handler is held responsible.
And before you start going on and on about how the dog doesn't have a choice in the matter like a human would or how mean it is to use an animal for our own purposes against it's will, you should probably throw out all your leather, beef, pork, poultry...etc products ASAP so you don't look too hypocritical.
I know some people would say that's better than risking a human life but I disagree completely. A human officer knowingly took on his or her job knowing all the risks implied. He can leave the force if he doesn't want to do that. Where does the dog have a choice?
One of the K-9 dogs in my town dog was shot and killed by a robber during a chase.
I just want to roll my eyes at this foolish statement one more time.
I'm guessing you would rather that the cop got shot? That the robber got away? Not sure what you are even trying to say with that statement.
One of the K-9 dogs in my town dog was shot and killed by a robber during a chase.
Regarding attack dogs, is there really a difference in an officer having a shepherd trained to attack upon command and a civilian having a pit or rott trained for the same purpose? Seemingly both would be able to control their dogs but dogs also have minds of their own and have been known to attack when there was no call for it.
What does everyone else think about using dogs in police work?
This is almost the lamest post I have ever read on any message board. I would sacrifice 100 dogs lives in place of a single human officer. No questions asked.
If a dog doesn't obey his handler and goes off and hurts someone 2 things happen. The dog is put down, and the handler is held responsible.
And before you start going on and on about how the dog doesn't have a choice in the matter like a human would or how mean it is to use an animal for our own purposes against it's will, you should probably throw out all your leather, beef, pork, poultry...etc products ASAP so you don't look too hypocritical.
I know some people would say that's better than risking a human life but I disagree completely. A human officer knowingly took on his or her job knowing all the risks implied. He can leave the force if he doesn't want to do that. Where does the dog have a choice?
One of the K-9 dogs in my town dog was shot and killed by a robber during a chase.
I just want to roll my eyes at this foolish statement one more time.
I'm guessing you would rather that the cop got shot? That the robber got away? Not sure what you are even trying to say with that statement.-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Police Dogs?
Hey Cardsfan,
I see you are blatantly new here. Let me help you out a little: don't be a jerk. You're going to run into a lot of posts you aren't going to like so get used to it and respond politely.
Matter of fact, I already have stopped using leather and meat so that's taken care of. That's also the usual standard rant from somebody like you so it doesn't work with me.
Yes, I would rather the cop get shot than the dog, damned straight. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
That's as much as I will expound for you because it's clear you're not here for civil discussion.
Good luck and welcome to Forum Garden.
I see you are blatantly new here. Let me help you out a little: don't be a jerk. You're going to run into a lot of posts you aren't going to like so get used to it and respond politely.
Matter of fact, I already have stopped using leather and meat so that's taken care of. That's also the usual standard rant from somebody like you so it doesn't work with me.
Yes, I would rather the cop get shot than the dog, damned straight. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
That's as much as I will expound for you because it's clear you're not here for civil discussion.
Good luck and welcome to Forum Garden.
Police Dogs?
RedGlitter wrote: Yes, I would rather the cop get shot than the dog, damned straight. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
Wow. That quote alone reveals that you are not in touch with reality and there is no debate to be had with you.
In case you can't see where you went oh so wrong repeat your statement above to 10 different people and gauge their reactions to it. Then come back here and tell me you are unapologetic.
Are there any cops on this board because I would LOVE to hear their response to your vewipoint.
Wow. That quote alone reveals that you are not in touch with reality and there is no debate to be had with you.
In case you can't see where you went oh so wrong repeat your statement above to 10 different people and gauge their reactions to it. Then come back here and tell me you are unapologetic.
Are there any cops on this board because I would LOVE to hear their response to your vewipoint.
Police Dogs?
CARDSFAN, normally I'd welcome you to the board, but, having read your first statement to Glitter, I'll warn you, instead. You'll find that sort of rudeness and lack of respect won't win you any friends here.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Police Dogs?
Yikes Cards you are outta line with your post, I think. That's pretty
close to attacking another member, seems like.
I don't completely agree with Red but guess what, that's fine and
she and I can discuss it and even enjoy that discussion. I totally
respect her for her efforts for the animals, who really DO need a
voice.
Couple of things Red that you make me think about with your post.
One is, my brother was in law enforcement for many years, and it
would be hard for me to say I'd rather he get shot than a K-9.
I think this goes back to being owner/handler responsibility. Obviously,
the ball was dropped big time in the case you posted about. No
animal can be considered to be 100% 100% of the time.
I also think, the media does enter into this some. We hear about an
attack yet rarely hear about the multitudes of occasions where
dogs are used and only the criminal gets hurt. Or dogs are used to
"work" (which in my experience, their collar and badge come out and
they get WAY excited, they love to work) and brought home to the
family afterwards. Some K-9's are kenneled, true, but most of the
ones I know about are family dogs who die of old age.
My former bro-in-law was a K-9 officer. One of the first times he
sent his dog after a suspect, it was in a very large park. The
guy the dog went after and stopped was a long-sought-after rape
suspect.
K-9's in my experience are very highly respected, in most jurisdictions
they are considered "officers" in the full sense of the word, and killing
one of them is a very serious offence. They are mourned when killed
on duty, and memorialized.
And I think there is a big, big difference in a trained K-9 and a civilian
with a "trained" dog. For one thing, K-9's have many periodic
refresher courses. And K-9's are not left on a chain all day to develop
behavior problems. (See Dogs Deserve Better)
Dogs trained in Schutzhund have many levels of what they can do, I'm
not as up on it as perhaps I should be, but there is something called a
"Bark and Hold" that I seriously doubt a drug dealer civilian teaches
his pitt.
Most of you know how I feel about the gsd. I wish I could REALLY
share with you all the amount of trust I have had in Tamsen in any
situation we encountered. Her innate ability to tell when a person needs
to be "watched" or one who doesn't is a wondrous thing to behold.
So yes, Red, I would have to say I think dogs have a place in police
work, though it saddens me greatly to think of losing a single one of
them.
close to attacking another member, seems like.
I don't completely agree with Red but guess what, that's fine and
she and I can discuss it and even enjoy that discussion. I totally
respect her for her efforts for the animals, who really DO need a
voice.
Couple of things Red that you make me think about with your post.
One is, my brother was in law enforcement for many years, and it
would be hard for me to say I'd rather he get shot than a K-9.
I think this goes back to being owner/handler responsibility. Obviously,
the ball was dropped big time in the case you posted about. No
animal can be considered to be 100% 100% of the time.
I also think, the media does enter into this some. We hear about an
attack yet rarely hear about the multitudes of occasions where
dogs are used and only the criminal gets hurt. Or dogs are used to
"work" (which in my experience, their collar and badge come out and
they get WAY excited, they love to work) and brought home to the
family afterwards. Some K-9's are kenneled, true, but most of the
ones I know about are family dogs who die of old age.
My former bro-in-law was a K-9 officer. One of the first times he
sent his dog after a suspect, it was in a very large park. The
guy the dog went after and stopped was a long-sought-after rape
suspect.
K-9's in my experience are very highly respected, in most jurisdictions
they are considered "officers" in the full sense of the word, and killing
one of them is a very serious offence. They are mourned when killed
on duty, and memorialized.
And I think there is a big, big difference in a trained K-9 and a civilian
with a "trained" dog. For one thing, K-9's have many periodic
refresher courses. And K-9's are not left on a chain all day to develop
behavior problems. (See Dogs Deserve Better)
Dogs trained in Schutzhund have many levels of what they can do, I'm
not as up on it as perhaps I should be, but there is something called a
"Bark and Hold" that I seriously doubt a drug dealer civilian teaches
his pitt.
Most of you know how I feel about the gsd. I wish I could REALLY
share with you all the amount of trust I have had in Tamsen in any
situation we encountered. Her innate ability to tell when a person needs
to be "watched" or one who doesn't is a wondrous thing to behold.
So yes, Red, I would have to say I think dogs have a place in police
work, though it saddens me greatly to think of losing a single one of
them.
Police Dogs?
Lulu2 wrote: CARDSFAN, normally I'd welcome you to the board, but, having read your first statement to Glitter, I'll warn you, instead. You'll find that sort of rudeness and lack of respect won't win you any friends here.
I thought everyone was welcome to this board. When I joined, even trolls were welcomed. As a usual rule I have seen people gently corrected and then if they continued to be rude, correction would become more stern.
I am not a great dog lover, animal lover, but I do not condone cruelty to animals. I have watched documentaries on the training of police dogs and the dogs obviously love their work and do it freely and lovingly. Otherwise they are not accepted because they won't perform their work. They are not forced or beaten into doing their work. They love it and they have that right. And they do their work with great abandon.
And yes.....if sending in a dog and the dog gets killed instead of a human being, I can deal with that. If I had to say whether a dog should be shot or a human being should be shot, I would keep the human being alive.
And I wish some of the gentleness I have seen would be showered on this person above. Unless of course this person is a troll.
I thought everyone was welcome to this board. When I joined, even trolls were welcomed. As a usual rule I have seen people gently corrected and then if they continued to be rude, correction would become more stern.
I am not a great dog lover, animal lover, but I do not condone cruelty to animals. I have watched documentaries on the training of police dogs and the dogs obviously love their work and do it freely and lovingly. Otherwise they are not accepted because they won't perform their work. They are not forced or beaten into doing their work. They love it and they have that right. And they do their work with great abandon.
And yes.....if sending in a dog and the dog gets killed instead of a human being, I can deal with that. If I had to say whether a dog should be shot or a human being should be shot, I would keep the human being alive.
And I wish some of the gentleness I have seen would be showered on this person above. Unless of course this person is a troll.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Police Dogs?
Weber, you're absolutely right.
CARDFAN..Welcome to the board. Now, having said that, about your first statement to Glitter,... You'll find that sort of rudeness and lack of respect won't win you any friends here.
CARDFAN..Welcome to the board. Now, having said that, about your first statement to Glitter,... You'll find that sort of rudeness and lack of respect won't win you any friends here.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Police Dogs?
A dog will attack a bear for that of a beggin strip....
I completely respect dogs for their contributions to society, not just in police work, but in humanitarian aid as well...along with countless other things...I honestly don't think a dog is conscientious about it's own mortality, therefore I can see nothing wrong with training a dog to handle dangerous situations. I think they are great for the police force, and I think they deserve a great deal of respect, and if they knew what honor was, they would have alot of it.
BTW -- aren't most dogs incorporated into the police force from dog kennels?
I completely respect dogs for their contributions to society, not just in police work, but in humanitarian aid as well...along with countless other things...I honestly don't think a dog is conscientious about it's own mortality, therefore I can see nothing wrong with training a dog to handle dangerous situations. I think they are great for the police force, and I think they deserve a great deal of respect, and if they knew what honor was, they would have alot of it.
BTW -- aren't most dogs incorporated into the police force from dog kennels?
Police Dogs?
Pinky wrote: I think it's fair to say that we can disagree about things without being rude or insulting. If you can't, then I suggest you go see your mum and ask her why you were brought up with no manners:-2
Pinky
I don't know how serious you are but if you said that to me, I would just leave. I always remember a passage from the bible that goes something like this, Jesus speaking "whatever you do to the least of mine, you do to me".
Pinky
I don't know how serious you are but if you said that to me, I would just leave. I always remember a passage from the bible that goes something like this, Jesus speaking "whatever you do to the least of mine, you do to me".
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Police Dogs?
K.Snyder wrote: I think they deserve a great deal of respect, and if they knew what honor was, they would have alot of it.
:yh_clap
:-4
:yh_clap
:-4
Police Dogs?
I've only known one former police dog and he was fairly old by the time I met him. I don't know if he was trained for attack or not, but he was always gentle and in control when I was around him. I don't like the idea of dogs being in harm's way, but I also think dogs can do things that a human officer couldn't do, and I also think the presence of a dog can help control a prisoner without ever it having to attack. I look upon this as better than having to hold a gun on someone and it gives an officer both of his hands to use in this kind of situation. I still think the fault lies with the officer who had the retired dog that attacked the elderly man.
Our local police department had a dog shot in the line of duty about 5 or 6 years ago, and a parade was held in his honor. Shooting a police dog around here is the equivalent of shooting a human police officer.:guitarist
Our local police department had a dog shot in the line of duty about 5 or 6 years ago, and a parade was held in his honor. Shooting a police dog around here is the equivalent of shooting a human police officer.:guitaristPolice Dogs?
Pinky wrote: I think it's fair to say that we can disagree about things without being rude or insulting. If you can't, then I suggest you go see your mum and ask her why you were brought up with no manners:-2
If anybody told me to go home and ask my mother why I was brought up without manners, I would take that as an insult. From what I read about this person in question, I don't think there was any asking the why's, or what brought on such a strong response. I just get the feeling that where animals are concerned, people don't matter, just the animals and I think that is sad.....very good for the animals but sad for the human beings.
I have to go now until this evening. I meant no insult to you Pinky.
It is just a feeling I have and I will stay out of this from now on because it bothers me.
If anybody told me to go home and ask my mother why I was brought up without manners, I would take that as an insult. From what I read about this person in question, I don't think there was any asking the why's, or what brought on such a strong response. I just get the feeling that where animals are concerned, people don't matter, just the animals and I think that is sad.....very good for the animals but sad for the human beings.
I have to go now until this evening. I meant no insult to you Pinky.
It is just a feeling I have and I will stay out of this from now on because it bothers me.miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Police Dogs?
rachelg wrote: Shooting a police dog around here is the equivalent of shooting a human police officer.:guitarist It's a crime in every state.
Before you all go circling the wagons around Red, go back and reread her post. I find it disappointing that the community on this board would respond so lightly to someone saying she would rather a human police officer was shot than a dog. Them's some messed up priorities there no matter how you look at it.
That's crazy. I stand by what I said and I'm unapologetic.
(FWIW I question the validity of her statements about giving up meat, leather etc... it was a little too convienient to the conversation, but I'll let it slide)
Before you all go circling the wagons around Red, go back and reread her post. I find it disappointing that the community on this board would respond so lightly to someone saying she would rather a human police officer was shot than a dog. Them's some messed up priorities there no matter how you look at it.
That's crazy. I stand by what I said and I'm unapologetic.
(FWIW I question the validity of her statements about giving up meat, leather etc... it was a little too convienient to the conversation, but I'll let it slide)
Police Dogs?
Cardsfan wrote: It's a crime in every state.
Before you all go circling the wagons around Red, go back and reread her post. I find it disappointing that the community on this board would respond so lightly to someone saying she would rather a human police officer was shot than a dog. Them's some messed up priorities there no matter how you look at it.
That's crazy. I stand by what I said and I'm unapologetic.
(FWIW I question the validity of her statements about giving up meat, leather etc... it was a little too convienient to the conversation, but I'll let it slide)
You're just full of snarky stuff today, aren't you? Since this place (FG) is
what it is, I'll give MY opinion on YOUR posts. Calling RG's post lame was
wrong, and rolling your eyes comment was wrong. You should have just
stuck to the rest of it, you'd have been fine. You would sacrifice 100 dogs
in place of a human officer, okay, state your case/opinion and be done
with it.
Ever hear that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar?
I'll "circle the wagons" for ANYONE here, regardless, when they get
treated to such snarky bs as what's spewing forth from you.
I've "known" RG for a while now and you can "question the validity" of
her statements but I believe them to be true, as much as can be known
in the cyber world. She's "shown" herself to me to my satisfaction.
Did you even read MY post? With a brother and 2 former brothers-in-law
as members of law enforcement, yeah, I don't like to hear some of
what RG is saying. But I think a better way to go about conveying that
to her is the way I did it. Not to suggest she's crazy.
Before you all go circling the wagons around Red, go back and reread her post. I find it disappointing that the community on this board would respond so lightly to someone saying she would rather a human police officer was shot than a dog. Them's some messed up priorities there no matter how you look at it.
That's crazy. I stand by what I said and I'm unapologetic.
(FWIW I question the validity of her statements about giving up meat, leather etc... it was a little too convienient to the conversation, but I'll let it slide)
You're just full of snarky stuff today, aren't you? Since this place (FG) is
what it is, I'll give MY opinion on YOUR posts. Calling RG's post lame was
wrong, and rolling your eyes comment was wrong. You should have just
stuck to the rest of it, you'd have been fine. You would sacrifice 100 dogs
in place of a human officer, okay, state your case/opinion and be done
with it.
Ever hear that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar?
I'll "circle the wagons" for ANYONE here, regardless, when they get
treated to such snarky bs as what's spewing forth from you.
I've "known" RG for a while now and you can "question the validity" of
her statements but I believe them to be true, as much as can be known
in the cyber world. She's "shown" herself to me to my satisfaction.
Did you even read MY post? With a brother and 2 former brothers-in-law
as members of law enforcement, yeah, I don't like to hear some of
what RG is saying. But I think a better way to go about conveying that
to her is the way I did it. Not to suggest she's crazy.
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Police Dogs?
Wow, looks like we have another one! I'm sure it'll level itself out in due time though.
:wah: Gee, thanks Cardsfan for giving me the benefit of the doubt on my clothing and eating habits!
First let me say that I don't want the human officer or the dog to be hurt. But just as many people will put a human life over that of an animal, I will not. To me they are equal. And if the dog is regarded as a regular police officer, just as the human is, then that only serves to back it up for me. If Cardsfan or anyone thinks I'm off the deep end or lame or whatever else has been said, then that's fine. I'm not here to change anybody's mind. I think what the Gardeners here so nicely pointed out is that we can disagree without being rude to each other. I appreciate what my other fellow Gardeners have said to you and I thank them for it.
Valerie, please know that I meant no disrespect to your brother or brothers in law. I'm sure what I said was hard for you to take and I should have at least rephrased what I said. I wasn't trying to be cavalier about someone's life.
It was just a couple days ago that I finally looked at Tamsen's Dogster page! Don't know why it took me this long. What a sweetheart dog!! I wanted to give her one of those rosettes and a bone but I was too lazy to register. Tamsen's a very cool dog! :-4
I agree that the media has a hand in this. Look at what they've done with Pits and Rotts. Or, maybe that's another thread. This is the first time I have heard of a K-9 dog attacking out of hand. I would have liked some more details. I'm with Rachel in that the owner is fully responsible for that man losing his arm. I wonder how they agreed upon that sum of $75,000 too.
One of our local K-9s was retired and allowed to live with his handler. There was a big stink about it as the police dept. wanted instead to have the dog put down as a matter of course!! They cited that the dog was "unsafe" due to his training. I live in a town where our police dept. is not known for its mental brilliance but I also recently read about this same thing happening in England, I think it was.
Good points about civilian trained dogs. And Dogs Deserve Better is a great organization.
K, I agree about dogs in humanitarian fields, absolutely. "Therapy Dogs." I don't know about shelter dogs being recruited for police work (Valerie...?) but I can vouch that many shelter dogs are spared death when they're adopted for training in assisting people. I am thinking mainly of the dogs who visit hospital patients and kids in sick wards, the therapy dogs whose purpose is to bring love and companionship to ill people. Sometimes they can train a younger shelter dog for other types of aid, like to help people who are paralyzed or deaf/blind, but I think they usually use dogs bred just for that purpose so they can train them from puppyhood.
I think Pinky makes a good point about the necessity of using dogs when we have other "tools" available.
Thank you guys for making this a good conversation in spite of how it started off! :-4
:wah: Gee, thanks Cardsfan for giving me the benefit of the doubt on my clothing and eating habits!
First let me say that I don't want the human officer or the dog to be hurt. But just as many people will put a human life over that of an animal, I will not. To me they are equal. And if the dog is regarded as a regular police officer, just as the human is, then that only serves to back it up for me. If Cardsfan or anyone thinks I'm off the deep end or lame or whatever else has been said, then that's fine. I'm not here to change anybody's mind. I think what the Gardeners here so nicely pointed out is that we can disagree without being rude to each other. I appreciate what my other fellow Gardeners have said to you and I thank them for it.
Valerie, please know that I meant no disrespect to your brother or brothers in law. I'm sure what I said was hard for you to take and I should have at least rephrased what I said. I wasn't trying to be cavalier about someone's life.
It was just a couple days ago that I finally looked at Tamsen's Dogster page! Don't know why it took me this long. What a sweetheart dog!! I wanted to give her one of those rosettes and a bone but I was too lazy to register. Tamsen's a very cool dog! :-4
I agree that the media has a hand in this. Look at what they've done with Pits and Rotts. Or, maybe that's another thread. This is the first time I have heard of a K-9 dog attacking out of hand. I would have liked some more details. I'm with Rachel in that the owner is fully responsible for that man losing his arm. I wonder how they agreed upon that sum of $75,000 too.
One of our local K-9s was retired and allowed to live with his handler. There was a big stink about it as the police dept. wanted instead to have the dog put down as a matter of course!! They cited that the dog was "unsafe" due to his training. I live in a town where our police dept. is not known for its mental brilliance but I also recently read about this same thing happening in England, I think it was.
Good points about civilian trained dogs. And Dogs Deserve Better is a great organization.
K, I agree about dogs in humanitarian fields, absolutely. "Therapy Dogs." I don't know about shelter dogs being recruited for police work (Valerie...?) but I can vouch that many shelter dogs are spared death when they're adopted for training in assisting people. I am thinking mainly of the dogs who visit hospital patients and kids in sick wards, the therapy dogs whose purpose is to bring love and companionship to ill people. Sometimes they can train a younger shelter dog for other types of aid, like to help people who are paralyzed or deaf/blind, but I think they usually use dogs bred just for that purpose so they can train them from puppyhood.
I think Pinky makes a good point about the necessity of using dogs when we have other "tools" available.
Thank you guys for making this a good conversation in spite of how it started off! :-4
-
rainbowsmiles
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:55 pm
Police Dogs?
First let me say that I don't want the human officer or the dog to be hurt. But just as many people will put a human life over that of an animal, I will not. To me they are equal. And if the dog is regarded as a regular police officer, just as the human is, then that only serves to back it up for me. If Cardsfan or anyone thinks I'm off the deep end or lame or whatever else has been said, then that's fine. I'm not here to change anybody's mind. I think what the Gardeners here so nicely pointed out is that we can disagree without being rude to each other. I appreciate what my other fellow Gardeners have said to you and I thank them for it.
Hi Redglitter,
Having been raised a vegan by two animal rights/environmental acitivist parents, I can understand where you are coming from and why you feel the way you do. But for me personally, I have a hard time seeing animals as my equal. They just aren't (IMO) - no disrespect to how you feel though. They come close but don't quite make the cut I don't think your lame or off the deep end 
I also think you have every right to bring up this topic for discussion and quite frankly, I hadn't even thought of it until now so thank you for making me think. So I guess because I haven't really thought of it, I don't have an answer to present. All I know (from what little experience I have) is that the canine units I knew of (my sister was in police explorers when she was younger and so we got to know a few officers) - they love their dogs like family and to lose their dog is like losing a a true human partner. I can't imagine that an officer would send his/her dog into a dangerous situation without thinking twice about that animals safety. But that is all I can say.
But... now I'm stuck on "why are we using animals in the first place?" How did that start and why does it continue
Hi Redglitter,
Having been raised a vegan by two animal rights/environmental acitivist parents, I can understand where you are coming from and why you feel the way you do. But for me personally, I have a hard time seeing animals as my equal. They just aren't (IMO) - no disrespect to how you feel though. They come close but don't quite make the cut
I don't think your lame or off the deep end I also think you have every right to bring up this topic for discussion and quite frankly, I hadn't even thought of it until now so thank you for making me think. So I guess because I haven't really thought of it, I don't have an answer to present. All I know (from what little experience I have) is that the canine units I knew of (my sister was in police explorers when she was younger and so we got to know a few officers) - they love their dogs like family and to lose their dog is like losing a a true human partner. I can't imagine that an officer would send his/her dog into a dangerous situation without thinking twice about that animals safety. But that is all I can say.But... now I'm stuck on "why are we using animals in the first place?" How did that start and why does it continue
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Police Dogs?
Cardsfan wrote: (FWIW I question the validity of her statements about giving up meat, leather etc... it was a little too convienient to the conversation, but I'll let it slide)By all means, don't let it slide.
From 8-19-06:
RedGlitter wrote: Hi Sheryl. I don't want to turn this into a "what you should eat" thread but doing something for thousands of years is not always an excuse when you can do better or differently. It's been a proven fact for decades now that people do not require meat or animal products to get all their nutrients and to remain healthy. Mostly the people who go against this fact are the Big Ranchers and Farm Food Industries because they have a vested interest= money.
From 8-20-06:
RedGlitter wrote: Sounds delish. I don't like pork but I will substitute some fake meat and give it a whirl! I love the cornbread part!
Now be civil and I'll say how much I agree with you.
From 8-19-06:
RedGlitter wrote: Hi Sheryl. I don't want to turn this into a "what you should eat" thread but doing something for thousands of years is not always an excuse when you can do better or differently. It's been a proven fact for decades now that people do not require meat or animal products to get all their nutrients and to remain healthy. Mostly the people who go against this fact are the Big Ranchers and Farm Food Industries because they have a vested interest= money.
From 8-20-06:
RedGlitter wrote: Sounds delish. I don't like pork but I will substitute some fake meat and give it a whirl! I love the cornbread part!
Now be civil and I'll say how much I agree with you.
Police Dogs?
I felt no disrespect from you, RG, but I appreciate your thoughts.
I don't think there are too many shelter dogs who go into the K-9
training, beyond those used for bomb or drug detection. It does
take a certain dog to be able to do that type of work. I do know
that at least in the case of gsds, some dogs returned to breeders
because they are "too much to handle" make excellent prospects
for police work.
And I feel I must say, that at least from what I've seen, many bad
guys out there respect the presence of a K-9 even more than
that of a fully equipped human officer. That would seem to save
physical harm to all involved, if a suspect surrenders simply due
to a K-9 being on scene.
I don't think there are too many shelter dogs who go into the K-9
training, beyond those used for bomb or drug detection. It does
take a certain dog to be able to do that type of work. I do know
that at least in the case of gsds, some dogs returned to breeders
because they are "too much to handle" make excellent prospects
for police work.
And I feel I must say, that at least from what I've seen, many bad
guys out there respect the presence of a K-9 even more than
that of a fully equipped human officer. That would seem to save
physical harm to all involved, if a suspect surrenders simply due
to a K-9 being on scene.
Police Dogs?
rainbowsmiles wrote: Hi Redglitter,
Having been raised a vegan by two animal rights/environmental acitivist parents, I can understand where you are coming from and why you feel the way you do. But for me personally, I have a hard time seeing animals as my equal. They just aren't (IMO) - no disrespect to how you feel though. They come close but don't quite make the cut I don't think your lame or off the deep end I also think you have every right to bring up this topic for discussion and quite frankly, I hadn't even thought of it until now so thank you for making me think. So I guess because I haven't really thought of it, I don't have an answer to present. All I know (from what little experience I have) is that the canine units I knew of (my sister was in police explorers when she was younger and so we got to know a few officers) - they love their dogs like family and to lose their dog is like losing a a true human partner. I can't imagine that an officer would send his/her dog into a dangerous situation without thinking twice about that animals safety. But that is all I can say.
But... now I'm stuck on "why are we using animals in the first place?" How did that start and why does it continue
This is very well said, Rainbow. Kudos.
:yh_clap
Having been raised a vegan by two animal rights/environmental acitivist parents, I can understand where you are coming from and why you feel the way you do. But for me personally, I have a hard time seeing animals as my equal. They just aren't (IMO) - no disrespect to how you feel though. They come close but don't quite make the cut
I don't think your lame or off the deep end I also think you have every right to bring up this topic for discussion and quite frankly, I hadn't even thought of it until now so thank you for making me think. So I guess because I haven't really thought of it, I don't have an answer to present. All I know (from what little experience I have) is that the canine units I knew of (my sister was in police explorers when she was younger and so we got to know a few officers) - they love their dogs like family and to lose their dog is like losing a a true human partner. I can't imagine that an officer would send his/her dog into a dangerous situation without thinking twice about that animals safety. But that is all I can say.But... now I'm stuck on "why are we using animals in the first place?" How did that start and why does it continue
This is very well said, Rainbow. Kudos.
:yh_clap
Police Dogs?
RedGlitter wrote: First let me say that I don't want the human officer or the dog to be hurt. But just as many people will put a human life over that of an animal, I will not. To me they are equal. And if the dog is regarded as a regular police officer, just as the human is, then that only serves to back it up for me.
Loony Toons.
Would you give your life to save your child? Or if you don't have any kids, would you give your life to save a close family member? Now, would you give your life to save a dog? If so then you've just said that your kid/family member are as important to you as a dog. There's plenty of pups getting put down every day at the pound. What are you doing to save them? Where is the outrage?:-5
Loony Toons.
Would you give your life to save your child? Or if you don't have any kids, would you give your life to save a close family member? Now, would you give your life to save a dog? If so then you've just said that your kid/family member are as important to you as a dog. There's plenty of pups getting put down every day at the pound. What are you doing to save them? Where is the outrage?:-5
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Cardsfan wrote: Loony Toons.
[Blah blah blah ..... probably stuff I agree with, but so what?] outrage :-5Okay putz. I'm done with you. Respond all you wish while you're here. You'll get no response from me.
[Blah blah blah ..... probably stuff I agree with, but so what?] outrage :-5Okay putz. I'm done with you. Respond all you wish while you're here. You'll get no response from me.
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Police Dogs?
Cardsfan wrote: Loony Toons.
Would you give your life to save your child? Or if you don't have any kids, would you give your life to save a close family member? Now, would you give your life to save a dog? If so then you've just said that your kid/family member are as important to you as a dog. There's plenty of pups getting put down every day at the pound. What are you doing to save them? Where is the outrage?:-5
I have run a nonprofit animal rescue organization for the last seven years. THAT'S part of what I'M doing. THAT'S where my outrage is, dude. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ???
I really hate to be as rude as you have been to me, but you're kind of a bonehead. It amazes me that you never once thought to question why I hold these beliefs because you were too busy jumping down my throat about them. You should be less obnoxious and ask questions of people so you can learn. I think you and I are finished here.
Would you give your life to save your child? Or if you don't have any kids, would you give your life to save a close family member? Now, would you give your life to save a dog? If so then you've just said that your kid/family member are as important to you as a dog. There's plenty of pups getting put down every day at the pound. What are you doing to save them? Where is the outrage?:-5
I have run a nonprofit animal rescue organization for the last seven years. THAT'S part of what I'M doing. THAT'S where my outrage is, dude. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ???
I really hate to be as rude as you have been to me, but you're kind of a bonehead. It amazes me that you never once thought to question why I hold these beliefs because you were too busy jumping down my throat about them. You should be less obnoxious and ask questions of people so you can learn. I think you and I are finished here.
Police Dogs?
valerie wrote:
And I feel I must say, that at least from what I've seen, many bad
guys out there respect the presence of a K-9 even more than
that of a fully equipped human officer. That would seem to save
physical harm to all involved, if a suspect surrenders simply due
to a K-9 being on scene.
Yes, that is what I was trying to say earlier. The dog may not have to do anything but be present to help control a situation. That is a major reason (I think) that makes a police dog very valuable.:-6
By the way, Valerie, I've always meant to ask, how did you come upon a name like Tamsen? I've never heard it before, but it's very nice and suits a GSD well
And I feel I must say, that at least from what I've seen, many bad
guys out there respect the presence of a K-9 even more than
that of a fully equipped human officer. That would seem to save
physical harm to all involved, if a suspect surrenders simply due
to a K-9 being on scene.
Yes, that is what I was trying to say earlier. The dog may not have to do anything but be present to help control a situation. That is a major reason (I think) that makes a police dog very valuable.:-6
By the way, Valerie, I've always meant to ask, how did you come upon a name like Tamsen? I've never heard it before, but it's very nice and suits a GSD well
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Police Dogs?
RedGlitter wrote: I have run a nonprofit animal rescue organization for the last seven years. THAT'S part of what I'M doing. THAT'S where my outrage is, dude. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ???
I really hate to be as rude as you have been to me, but you're kind of a bonehead. It amazes me that you never once thought to question why I hold these beliefs because you were too busy jumping down my throat about them. You should be less obnoxious and ask questions of people so you can learn. I think you and I are finished here. :yh_rotfl That shows how truly nice you are. Even when you pull out the stops, you can only get yourself to call him kind of a bonehead.:wah:
I think you could use some tutoring from Pinky.
I really hate to be as rude as you have been to me, but you're kind of a bonehead. It amazes me that you never once thought to question why I hold these beliefs because you were too busy jumping down my throat about them. You should be less obnoxious and ask questions of people so you can learn. I think you and I are finished here.
:yh_rotfl That shows how truly nice you are. Even when you pull out the stops, you can only get yourself to call him kind of a bonehead.:wah: I think you could use some tutoring from Pinky.
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Police Dogs?
:wah:
Well...you know...I can spit nails with the best of them but even with a :yh_clown like him, I really don't like to be mean to people. Nor do I want to get booted from the Garden and if I said what I really thought, I might get 86'd outta here. :-3
But hey, our Pinky really knows what she's doing, eh??! :guitarist
Can this thread be salvaged do ya think?
Rainbow Smiles, hi! Thank you for your nice comments and your thoughtful post. I don't understand what you were asking regarding how we started using animals in the first place and why we continue? Do you mean how police dogs were first introduced? If so, I couldn't answer that but maybe someone else could.
Rachel, hi! I apologize to you and Rainbow Smiles. You guys were really trying to discuss the issue here and it got derailed.
Valerie or anyone, are German Shepherds the only breed used in K-9 work?
Well...you know...I can spit nails with the best of them but even with a :yh_clown like him, I really don't like to be mean to people. Nor do I want to get booted from the Garden and if I said what I really thought, I might get 86'd outta here. :-3
But hey, our Pinky really knows what she's doing, eh??! :guitarist
Can this thread be salvaged do ya think?
Rainbow Smiles, hi! Thank you for your nice comments and your thoughtful post. I don't understand what you were asking regarding how we started using animals in the first place and why we continue? Do you mean how police dogs were first introduced? If so, I couldn't answer that but maybe someone else could.
Rachel, hi! I apologize to you and Rainbow Smiles. You guys were really trying to discuss the issue here and it got derailed.
Valerie or anyone, are German Shepherds the only breed used in K-9 work?
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Police Dogs?
I'm of the mind that plants and animals are to be exploited for the good of humanity. We had cows that we named and milked and petted and loved - and butchered and barbequed and feasted upon. As the youngest, It was my job to feed the chickens. It was also my job to catch the chickens, pluck the feathers after my dad beheaded them, and clean the mess after he cleaned them before the dogs got into it. To this day, chicken is my favorite meat.
Dogs are perfect for K-9 duty because of their blind loyalty and eagerness to please, not in spite of it. As was said before, many criminals will give up as soon as they see a dog because they know that, unlike human cops, a dog will ignore personal danger and go for the fight. Also, as cold as it sounds, exploiting a dog's innate loyalty to sacrifice it is preferable, monetarily and (here's where we disagree) morally, to ignoring such and option and risking a human cop's life.
Added: I see it as nothing more or less than a fire fighter using breathing equipment and fire hoses instead of bare hands.
Dogs are perfect for K-9 duty because of their blind loyalty and eagerness to please, not in spite of it. As was said before, many criminals will give up as soon as they see a dog because they know that, unlike human cops, a dog will ignore personal danger and go for the fight. Also, as cold as it sounds, exploiting a dog's innate loyalty to sacrifice it is preferable, monetarily and (here's where we disagree) morally, to ignoring such and option and risking a human cop's life.
Added: I see it as nothing more or less than a fire fighter using breathing equipment and fire hoses instead of bare hands.
Police Dogs?
Gsd's aren't the only ones used but seem to be the breed of choice
in most departments.
Years ago, when my dad would refer to them as "police dogs" that's
all I thought they were, I didn't know about any other name. I had
read a book about "Buddy, First Lady of the Seeing Eye" but really
was a while before I got it right.
Rachel, Tamsen's name comes from Tamsen Donner of the Donner
party. She was a very brave lady and very loyal to her husband.
Turned down a couple of chances at rescue to stay with him because
he was ill. I had always been fascinated with the Donner Party story
and liked the name. Our girl is still the only Tamsen on Dogster, pretty
neat, huh?
in most departments.
Years ago, when my dad would refer to them as "police dogs" that's
all I thought they were, I didn't know about any other name. I had
read a book about "Buddy, First Lady of the Seeing Eye" but really
was a while before I got it right.
Rachel, Tamsen's name comes from Tamsen Donner of the Donner
party. She was a very brave lady and very loyal to her husband.
Turned down a couple of chances at rescue to stay with him because
he was ill. I had always been fascinated with the Donner Party story
and liked the name. Our girl is still the only Tamsen on Dogster, pretty
neat, huh?
Police Dogs?
Accountable:"I'm of the mind that plants and animals are to be exploited for the good of humanity."
++++++++++++++ Oh? Who made that exploitation rule?
++++++++++++++ Oh? Who made that exploitation rule?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Police Dogs?
Lulu2 wrote: Accountable:"I'm of the mind that plants and animals are to be exploited for the good of humanity."
++++++++++++++ Oh? Who made that exploitation rule?No one you know. :rolleyes:
++++++++++++++ Oh? Who made that exploitation rule?No one you know. :rolleyes:
Police Dogs?
Is it perhaps written somewhere?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Police Dogs?
valerie wrote: Gsd's aren't the only ones used but seem to be the breed of choice
in most departments.
Rachel, Tamsen's name comes from Tamsen Donner of the Donner
party. She was a very brave lady and very loyal to her husband.
Turned down a couple of chances at rescue to stay with him because
he was ill. I had always been fascinated with the Donner Party story
and liked the name. Our girl is still the only Tamsen on Dogster, pretty
neat, huh?
Wow that is cool. I knew it must be someone special she was named for, knowing how much you adore her:-4
in most departments.
Rachel, Tamsen's name comes from Tamsen Donner of the Donner
party. She was a very brave lady and very loyal to her husband.
Turned down a couple of chances at rescue to stay with him because
he was ill. I had always been fascinated with the Donner Party story
and liked the name. Our girl is still the only Tamsen on Dogster, pretty
neat, huh?
Wow that is cool. I knew it must be someone special she was named for, knowing how much you adore her:-4
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Police Dogs?
Diuretic wrote: They're great. Imagine a warehouse, middle of the night, no lighting inside the warehouse and a crook hiding in there. The dog will find the crook.
They're used as drug detectors (what a nose), explosive detectors (again the nose) and federal authorities here use them to find good subject to quarantine (people bringing back salami from the old country).
Hi Diuretic
Are you serious? What's wrong with a souvenir salami?! :wah: No, seriously. Salami Sniffing Dogs!
They're used as drug detectors (what a nose), explosive detectors (again the nose) and federal authorities here use them to find good subject to quarantine (people bringing back salami from the old country).
Hi Diuretic
Are you serious? What's wrong with a souvenir salami?! :wah: No, seriously. Salami Sniffing Dogs!
Police Dogs?
I love this story! It happened to a very unpleasant woman who deserved it! She and her daughter were leaving Italy and decided to smuggle back some of the local ham. STRICTLY ILLEGAL, of course, and they knew it.
But, being who she was, she decided to double-wrap the ham and hide it in her underpants.
When they got to the airport, these dogs went immediately to her and pressed their noses into her crotch! She was trying to brush them off with a "No, no, nice doggie" attitude, but the dogs stood their ground and she was BUSTED!
(Note to smugglers...you cannot fool a beagle!) :wah:
But, being who she was, she decided to double-wrap the ham and hide it in her underpants.
When they got to the airport, these dogs went immediately to her and pressed their noses into her crotch! She was trying to brush them off with a "No, no, nice doggie" attitude, but the dogs stood their ground and she was BUSTED!
(Note to smugglers...you cannot fool a beagle!) :wah:
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Police Dogs?
Lulu2 wrote:
But, being who she was, she decided to double-wrap the ham and hide it in her underpants.
:wah:
:yh_sick You're right! She deserved it for just that reason!!
Who would eat ham that's been stuck in someone's drawers?! Good grief!
But, being who she was, she decided to double-wrap the ham and hide it in her underpants.
:wah:
:yh_sick You're right! She deserved it for just that reason!!
Who would eat ham that's been stuck in someone's drawers?! Good grief!
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Police Dogs?
:wah: 
:wah:
:wah:-
rainbowsmiles
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Police Dogs?
Rainbow Smiles, hi! Thank you for your nice comments and your thoughtful post. I don't understand what you were asking regarding how we started using animals in the first place and why we continue? Do you mean how police dogs were first introduced? If so, I couldn't answer that but maybe someone else could.
Yes Redglitter, I was curious as to how the use of dogs in police work got started (aside from the dogs that sniff out drugs). I don't know much about it and your question got me thinking about that aspect. I know that the dogs are quite smart and I remember my sister telling me they were often used to get into small spaces and also because they can run quite fast to catch criminals, but that is all I know. I was just curious is all and wondered if anyone knew their history.
BTW/I was stopped by a canine unit once when I was driving in the wee hours of the morning. The officer came to my window and I had my chihuahua with me and my dog was barking mad and spitting (LOL) - the officer told him to pipe it down because his partner would eat him for breakfast if he got too frisky. We both laughed. I thought it was cute
Yes Redglitter, I was curious as to how the use of dogs in police work got started (aside from the dogs that sniff out drugs). I don't know much about it and your question got me thinking about that aspect. I know that the dogs are quite smart and I remember my sister telling me they were often used to get into small spaces and also because they can run quite fast to catch criminals, but that is all I know. I was just curious is all and wondered if anyone knew their history.
BTW/I was stopped by a canine unit once when I was driving in the wee hours of the morning. The officer came to my window and I had my chihuahua with me and my dog was barking mad and spitting (LOL) - the officer told him to pipe it down because his partner would eat him for breakfast if he got too frisky. We both laughed. I thought it was cute
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Police Dogs?
http://www.geocities.com/ericsquire/art ... gshist.htm
I came across this...more modern stuff is toward the bottom. I was searching for "history of American police dogs" but there are many links for UK dogs too.
:)
Sad about the Vietnam Dogs. :-1
I came across this...more modern stuff is toward the bottom. I was searching for "history of American police dogs" but there are many links for UK dogs too.
:)
Sad about the Vietnam Dogs. :-1
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Police Dogs?
Thank you RedGlitter - I'm on my way to read
Police Dogs?
RedGlitter;436612 wrote:
Yes, I would rather the cop get shot than the dog, damned straight. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
If the cop were your child, spouse, father, brother, etc., would you still rather the cop get shot than the dog?
Yes, I would rather the cop get shot than the dog, damned straight. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
If the cop were your child, spouse, father, brother, etc., would you still rather the cop get shot than the dog?
Police Dogs?
did you know that police dogs are trained to give a certain sign if they smell pot on you or your vehicle. so if you ever have one come up to you looking all friendly, i would get a little paranoid. he might look innocent but he is telling on ya too. :wah: