Fewer secular wars because of religion
Fewer secular wars because of religion
There are many who charge that war and other atrocities are caused by religion. It is true that some wars and some atrocities are the result of religious conflict. It is also true that many wars and many atrocities happen for totally different reasons. People fight over land, hunting grounds, fishing, air space, forms of government, water, oil, food, and a host of other reasons. Could it be that we actually have fewer wars and fewer atrocities because of the values taught by most religions? Could it be that things would be a lot worse if men hadn’t been taught to love their neighbor and not to steal or murder? I think a better case could be made for religion’s calming effect than what we so often hear from the religion haters. How many wars would we have had without religion's influence?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint :-6
Religions have been implicated in a lot of world atrocities and Christianity must bare the burden of its share. Generally it is the more extremists that cause the problem but not always.
In some cases such as Northern Ireland religion is the scapegoat and not the cause. The problem in Northern Ireland according to an Irish Dr. is purely political and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
Perhaps the Capt. can comment on that.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Religions have been implicated in a lot of world atrocities and Christianity must bare the burden of its share. Generally it is the more extremists that cause the problem but not always.
In some cases such as Northern Ireland religion is the scapegoat and not the cause. The problem in Northern Ireland according to an Irish Dr. is purely political and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
Perhaps the Capt. can comment on that.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Fewer secular wars because of religion
No I will comment Ted, absolute bollocks. I will try and remember anytime when a persons political view has been expressed rather than being from the "Catholic or Protestant" viewpoint.
The view you have from the Irish Dr will be biaised to one side or the other. the warring factions may well be using political methods to gain power but I can assure you the divide is on religious grounds, always has been always will.
If you want to try this theory out, walk into a North Belfast pub and declare you are a protestant but that you agree with the IRA's political views. Good Luck
The view you have from the Irish Dr will be biaised to one side or the other. the warring factions may well be using political methods to gain power but I can assure you the divide is on religious grounds, always has been always will.
If you want to try this theory out, walk into a North Belfast pub and declare you are a protestant but that you agree with the IRA's political views. Good Luck
"I have done my duty. I thank God for it!"
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Two Irishmen were sitting at a pub having beer and watching the brothel across the street.
They saw a Baptist minister walk into the brothel, and one of them said, "Aye, 'tis a shame to see a man of the cloth goin' bad."
Then they saw a rabbi enter the brothel, and the other Irishman said, "Aye, 'tis a shame to see that the Jews are fallin' victim to temptation as well."
Then they see a catholic priest enter the brothel, and one of the Irishmen said, "What a terrible pity...one of the girls must be dying.
They saw a Baptist minister walk into the brothel, and one of them said, "Aye, 'tis a shame to see a man of the cloth goin' bad."
Then they saw a rabbi enter the brothel, and the other Irishman said, "Aye, 'tis a shame to see that the Jews are fallin' victim to temptation as well."
Then they see a catholic priest enter the brothel, and one of the Irishmen said, "What a terrible pity...one of the girls must be dying.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint wrote: There are many who charge that war and other atrocities are caused by religion. It is true that some wars and some atrocities are the result of religious conflict. It is also true that many wars and many atrocities happen for totally different reasons. People fight over land, hunting grounds, fishing, air space, forms of government, water, oil, food, and a host of other reasons. Could it be that we actually have fewer wars and fewer atrocities because of the values taught by most religions? Could it be that things would be a lot worse if men hadn’t been taught to love their neighbor and not to steal or murder? I think a better case could be made for religion’s calming effect than what we so often hear from the religion haters. How many wars would we have had without religion's influence?
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, Clint.
Religion, by it's very nature is divisive and fractious. Men have been killing in the name of 'god' for eons. Take for example, the current conflict with Irag. That is just another chapter to the crusades against the ottoman. Islam has cried Jihad. I think everyone in the western world is familier with that term now. The west is the 'great satan' which must be wiped out, by any means. Even that isnt new. Remember a man named Malcom X? By any means, Clint. It's Christianity vs. Islam chptr bazillion and two. In the middle east it's Judaeism vs. Islam since Isaac and Ishmael. All of the wars man has fought, may have had other reasons MASKING the true nature of them, but they have ALWAYS had religion driving them. ALWAYS.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, Clint.
Religion, by it's very nature is divisive and fractious. Men have been killing in the name of 'god' for eons. Take for example, the current conflict with Irag. That is just another chapter to the crusades against the ottoman. Islam has cried Jihad. I think everyone in the western world is familier with that term now. The west is the 'great satan' which must be wiped out, by any means. Even that isnt new. Remember a man named Malcom X? By any means, Clint. It's Christianity vs. Islam chptr bazillion and two. In the middle east it's Judaeism vs. Islam since Isaac and Ishmael. All of the wars man has fought, may have had other reasons MASKING the true nature of them, but they have ALWAYS had religion driving them. ALWAYS.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
-
Wild Weasil
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:23 am
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Raven has hit the nail on the head.
One way or the other, religion in whatever form manages to rear its ugly; devisive head in most conflicts even if the original bone of contention was not religious.
The German army used to have 'God with us' on their belt buckles, while allied soldiers were told they were fighting the Lords fight, and so it goes.
I am not a religious person, indeed I actively avoid anything with a religious bent, but I am sure that if there is a God (of whatever stripe) then he (or even she, why not?) would not be best pleased with the people supposedly representing him. I would imagine that if there is a hell then a fair proportion of its inhabitants would be priests, mullahs, preachers etc.
Try to treat people as you would be treated yourself is my advice.
One way or the other, religion in whatever form manages to rear its ugly; devisive head in most conflicts even if the original bone of contention was not religious.
The German army used to have 'God with us' on their belt buckles, while allied soldiers were told they were fighting the Lords fight, and so it goes.
I am not a religious person, indeed I actively avoid anything with a religious bent, but I am sure that if there is a God (of whatever stripe) then he (or even she, why not?) would not be best pleased with the people supposedly representing him. I would imagine that if there is a hell then a fair proportion of its inhabitants would be priests, mullahs, preachers etc.
Try to treat people as you would be treated yourself is my advice.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Bothwell wrote: No I will comment Ted, absolute bollocks. I will try and remember anytime when a persons political view has been expressed rather than being from the "Catholic or Protestant" viewpoint.
The view you have from the Irish Dr will be biaised to one side or the other. the warring factions may well be using political methods to gain power but I can assure you the divide is on religious grounds, always has been always will.
If you want to try this theory out, walk into a North Belfast pub and declare you are a protestant but that you agree with the IRA's political views. Good LuckTop of the morning to ya Bothwell.
The view you have from the Irish Dr will be biaised to one side or the other. the warring factions may well be using political methods to gain power but I can assure you the divide is on religious grounds, always has been always will.
If you want to try this theory out, walk into a North Belfast pub and declare you are a protestant but that you agree with the IRA's political views. Good LuckTop of the morning to ya Bothwell.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Raven wrote: I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, Clint.
Religion, by it's very nature is divisive and fractious. Men have been killing in the name of 'god' for eons. Take for example, the current conflict with Irag. That is just another chapter to the crusades against the ottoman. Islam has cried Jihad. I think everyone in the western world is familier with that term now. The west is the 'great satan' which must be wiped out, by any means. Even that isnt new. Remember a man named Malcom X? By any means, Clint. It's Christianity vs. Islam chptr bazillion and two. In the middle east it's Judaeism vs. Islam since Isaac and Ishmael. All of the wars man has fought, may have had other reasons MASKING the true nature of them, but they have ALWAYS had religion driving them. ALWAYS.
I see your point, to a point.
The war against terrorism, to this point, has been a religious war on one side and a war of self defense on the other. I think it is that way because so many Christians now realize that being the instigator and aggressor in war is not what Jesus teaches.
The values Jesus teach are more likely to cause his followers to have mercy than to wage war. I still think that without his teaching and example we may have had more wars than we have.
What about N. Korea vs. S Korea and Japan vs. U.S. or Vietnam? Were those religiously motivated? I suppose the case could be made but wouldn’t it be a bit of a stretch?
Religion, by it's very nature is divisive and fractious. Men have been killing in the name of 'god' for eons. Take for example, the current conflict with Irag. That is just another chapter to the crusades against the ottoman. Islam has cried Jihad. I think everyone in the western world is familier with that term now. The west is the 'great satan' which must be wiped out, by any means. Even that isnt new. Remember a man named Malcom X? By any means, Clint. It's Christianity vs. Islam chptr bazillion and two. In the middle east it's Judaeism vs. Islam since Isaac and Ishmael. All of the wars man has fought, may have had other reasons MASKING the true nature of them, but they have ALWAYS had religion driving them. ALWAYS.
I see your point, to a point.
The war against terrorism, to this point, has been a religious war on one side and a war of self defense on the other. I think it is that way because so many Christians now realize that being the instigator and aggressor in war is not what Jesus teaches.
The values Jesus teach are more likely to cause his followers to have mercy than to wage war. I still think that without his teaching and example we may have had more wars than we have.
What about N. Korea vs. S Korea and Japan vs. U.S. or Vietnam? Were those religiously motivated? I suppose the case could be made but wouldn’t it be a bit of a stretch?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
When it comes to war and religion it is generally the extremists on both sides that cause the problem. The general tenents of both Islam and Christianity call for peace and coexistence.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Shalom
Ted :-6
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Ted wrote: When it comes to war and religion it is generally the extremists on both sides that cause the problem. The general tenents of both Islam and Christianity call for peace and coexistence.
Shalom
Ted :-6
There are those who claim that war is very mainstream Islam. Mohamed actually taught that the way to an Islamic world is to wipe out the infidels.
I know that a changed heart resulting in new birth is the preferred method of Jesus. A “Christian†who advocates evangelism by force has actually hijacked the name. There have been those who have declared war in his name but I doubt they knew him.
I laugh when I think of the Army Colonel who had a battlefield conversion and in his zeal ordered those under his command to accept Jesus. He said there was a lot of insubordination that day.
Shalom
Ted :-6
There are those who claim that war is very mainstream Islam. Mohamed actually taught that the way to an Islamic world is to wipe out the infidels.
I know that a changed heart resulting in new birth is the preferred method of Jesus. A “Christian†who advocates evangelism by force has actually hijacked the name. There have been those who have declared war in his name but I doubt they knew him.
I laugh when I think of the Army Colonel who had a battlefield conversion and in his zeal ordered those under his command to accept Jesus. He said there was a lot of insubordination that day.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
It should not be but many wars have been fought becuase of religious intolerance.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Suresh Gupta wrote: It should not be but many wars have been fought becuase of religious intolerance.
If one war is fought because of religious intolerance it is too many. I'm saying that all this talk about religion being the reason there is war is simply not true. If not for values taught by religion there would be more wars.
If one war is fought because of religious intolerance it is too many. I'm saying that all this talk about religion being the reason there is war is simply not true. If not for values taught by religion there would be more wars.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint wrote: If one war is fought because of religious intolerance it is too many. I'm saying that all this talk about religion being the reason there is war is simply not true. If not for values taught by religion there would be more wars.
I fully agree with you.
I fully agree with you.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint :-6
That is not my understanding of Islam. I have heard several comment on this and they all claim that true Islam is a religion of peace. They you have the extremists.
In fact during the first several years after Islam took over Jerusalem it is well known that they shared their sacred space, the mosque, with the Jews who simply used it at a different time. There was a great deal of tolerance at first. Then along came a Muslim leader, whose name I have forgotten, who saw things differently.
Shalom
Ted :-6
That is not my understanding of Islam. I have heard several comment on this and they all claim that true Islam is a religion of peace. They you have the extremists.
In fact during the first several years after Islam took over Jerusalem it is well known that they shared their sacred space, the mosque, with the Jews who simply used it at a different time. There was a great deal of tolerance at first. Then along came a Muslim leader, whose name I have forgotten, who saw things differently.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Ted wrote: Clint :-6
That is not my understanding of Islam. I have heard several comment on this and they all claim that true Islam is a religion of peace. They you have the extremists.
In fact during the first several years after Islam took over Jerusalem it is well known that they shared their sacred space, the mosque, with the Jews who simply used it at a different time. There was a great deal of tolerance at first. Then along came a Muslim leader, whose name I have forgotten, who saw things differently.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Ted,
This is my understanding of Islam. These are quotes from the Koran.
“The Jews call 'Uzayr-a son of God', and the Christinas call 'Christ the Son Of God'. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are decluded away from the Truth.†(Koran 9:30)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them." (Koran 8:12 )
When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens. (Koran 47:4 )
That is not my understanding of Islam. I have heard several comment on this and they all claim that true Islam is a religion of peace. They you have the extremists.
In fact during the first several years after Islam took over Jerusalem it is well known that they shared their sacred space, the mosque, with the Jews who simply used it at a different time. There was a great deal of tolerance at first. Then along came a Muslim leader, whose name I have forgotten, who saw things differently.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Ted,
This is my understanding of Islam. These are quotes from the Koran.
“The Jews call 'Uzayr-a son of God', and the Christinas call 'Christ the Son Of God'. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are decluded away from the Truth.†(Koran 9:30)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them." (Koran 8:12 )
When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens. (Koran 47:4 )
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Until Ted inspired me to do some looking, I thought it was possible that Islam in its true form promoted peace. I thought that like Messianic Judaism it would defend but not necessarily go on the offensive. I thought it was just the radical Muslims who subscribed to the elimination rather than conversion of those who beilieve differently. I now understand better why we haven't heard the mainstream of Islam, loudly objecting to what the radicals are doing.
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
Is there a place in the world TODAY where Christians are killing non-Christian people in the name of Jesus.
I’m aware of Ireland where “Christians†have killed “Christians†in misguided anger.
I can’t imagine Gandhi or Jesus, for instance, teaching their followers to be “ruthlessâ€. There is violence in the history of most religions but I only know of one that currently teaches ongoing violence. Keep in mind that Mohamed taught some 600 years after the incarnation of Jesus.
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
Is there a place in the world TODAY where Christians are killing non-Christian people in the name of Jesus.
I’m aware of Ireland where “Christians†have killed “Christians†in misguided anger.
I can’t imagine Gandhi or Jesus, for instance, teaching their followers to be “ruthlessâ€. There is violence in the history of most religions but I only know of one that currently teaches ongoing violence. Keep in mind that Mohamed taught some 600 years after the incarnation of Jesus.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint wrote: Until Ted inspired me to do some looking, I thought it was possible that Islam in its true form promoted peace. I thought that like Messianic Judaism it would defend but not necessarily go on the offensive. I thought it was just the radical Muslims who subscribed to the elimination rather than conversion of those who beilieve differently. I now understand better why we haven't heard the mainstream of Islam, loudly objecting to what the radicals are doing.
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
Is there a place in the world TODAY where Christians are killing non-Christian people in the name of Jesus.
I’m aware of Ireland where “Christians†have killed “Christians†in misguided anger.
I can’t imagine Gandhi or Jesus, for instance, teaching their followers to be “ruthlessâ€. There is violence in the history of most religions but I only know of one that currently teaches ongoing violence. Keep in mind that Mohamed taught some 600 years after the incarnation of Jesus.
It's a difficult one to take in. According to islam, we're infidels, meant for destruction. According to Judaeism, we're gentiles, unfit and unclean to mix with the Jews. According to Christianity, they're the lost and unsaved. While we're supposed to take the good news to the four corners and make disciples of the nations, one group wants to wipe us off the face of the planet, and the other doesnt want anything to do with us, for fear of being found 'unclean'. What kind of odds are those? The ones God loves best. We're in a war of another kind. A war for mens souls. That kind, we fight on our knees. True, our heads may get lopped off in that position, but fight on we must. Just be glad that Buddhists and Hindus, love us as brothers and sisters just the same. So see? We cant cry that the WHOLE world hates us!
But make no mistake about it, there is NOTHING peaceful about islam. Not to a Christian in ANY sense of the word. To a muslim, killing christians is just being faithful to the koran. They dont view jihad as anything other than HOLY. But just remember Jesus said, "I send you out as lambs amongts wolves, be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves". Whats even more miraculous, is that there are still so many of us left!
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
Is there a place in the world TODAY where Christians are killing non-Christian people in the name of Jesus.
I’m aware of Ireland where “Christians†have killed “Christians†in misguided anger.
I can’t imagine Gandhi or Jesus, for instance, teaching their followers to be “ruthlessâ€. There is violence in the history of most religions but I only know of one that currently teaches ongoing violence. Keep in mind that Mohamed taught some 600 years after the incarnation of Jesus.
It's a difficult one to take in. According to islam, we're infidels, meant for destruction. According to Judaeism, we're gentiles, unfit and unclean to mix with the Jews. According to Christianity, they're the lost and unsaved. While we're supposed to take the good news to the four corners and make disciples of the nations, one group wants to wipe us off the face of the planet, and the other doesnt want anything to do with us, for fear of being found 'unclean'. What kind of odds are those? The ones God loves best. We're in a war of another kind. A war for mens souls. That kind, we fight on our knees. True, our heads may get lopped off in that position, but fight on we must. Just be glad that Buddhists and Hindus, love us as brothers and sisters just the same. So see? We cant cry that the WHOLE world hates us!
But make no mistake about it, there is NOTHING peaceful about islam. Not to a Christian in ANY sense of the word. To a muslim, killing christians is just being faithful to the koran. They dont view jihad as anything other than HOLY. But just remember Jesus said, "I send you out as lambs amongts wolves, be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves". Whats even more miraculous, is that there are still so many of us left!
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Fewer secular wars because of religion
I think if people put as much effort into guiding their own lives as they do into judging the lives of others the world would be a much better place. I worry about my neighbour's health and mental well being...but do I have to worry about his/her soul? I think not. If there is a God, I would think God would worry about that so I don't have to.
-
Wild Weasil
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:23 am
Fewer secular wars because of religion
koan wrote: I think if people put as much effort into guiding their own lives as they do into judging the lives of others the world would be a much better place. I worry about my neighbour's health and mental well being...but do I have to worry about his/her soul? I think not. If there is a God, I would think God would worry about that so I don't have to.
Your right there, cant argue with that conclusion.
Your right there, cant argue with that conclusion.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint :-6
I cannot agree that Islam is a religion of vengence etc.
You've quoted the Q'ran in a few spots. I'm not going to quote the Bible but it to says some terrible things. Consider the "invasion of Caanan". Consider the wars of the OT. Consider what some of the Psalms say. Without looking it up the people are told to bash the brains of the young children out on the rocks.
If you listen to and discuss with some of the more peace minded Muslims and some of the Muslim scholars they decry the violence in the name of God. They are ashamed of the extremists just as I am ashamed of the Christian extremists.
Extremists do not represent God but their own agenda.
Shalom
Ted :-6
I cannot agree that Islam is a religion of vengence etc.
You've quoted the Q'ran in a few spots. I'm not going to quote the Bible but it to says some terrible things. Consider the "invasion of Caanan". Consider the wars of the OT. Consider what some of the Psalms say. Without looking it up the people are told to bash the brains of the young children out on the rocks.
If you listen to and discuss with some of the more peace minded Muslims and some of the Muslim scholars they decry the violence in the name of God. They are ashamed of the extremists just as I am ashamed of the Christian extremists.
Extremists do not represent God but their own agenda.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Ted wrote: Clint :-6
I cannot agree that Islam is a religion of vengence etc.
You've quoted the Q'ran in a few spots. I'm not going to quote the Bible but it to says some terrible things. Consider the "invasion of Caanan". Consider the wars of the OT. Consider what some of the Psalms say. Without looking it up the people are told to bash the brains of the young children out on the rocks.
If you listen to and discuss with some of the more peace minded Muslims and some of the Muslim scholars they decry the violence in the name of God. They are ashamed of the extremists just as I am ashamed of the Christian extremists.
Extremists do not represent God but their own agenda.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Ted,
Is there a place in the world TODAY where Christians are killing non-Christian people in the name of Jesus? Is there another contemporary religion that is carrying out the teachings of its Prophet in the way that Islam is in so many places around the world?
You say you are as ashamed of Christian extremists as they are of their extremists. Where are the Christian extremists who are conducting themselves anything at all like the Islamic extremists?
Is there a place in the Bible that calls for Christians to make war against Muslims? Is there a place in the Bible that calls on Christians to "Slay them wherever you find them...� We don’t stone adulterous wives anymore because Jesus put that law in perspective but it is still practiced in Islam. These things were condoned by Mohamed 600 years after Jesus taught the spirit of the law.
I watch fairly closely for a sign that Islam is rejecting the Jihadists but I’m not seeing it. There may be those within Islam that are appalled but the leadership isn’t speaking out very loudly.
I’m sorry Ted. I’m seeing facts. I’m a combat veteran and when I see our soldiers being torn away from their families it makes me cry (literally). When I see widows and fatherless children because of these animals it makes me cry. There is no group on earth you can compare these blood thirsty snakes to. Christians hold their extremists in check, why don’t Muslims?
I cannot agree that Islam is a religion of vengence etc.
You've quoted the Q'ran in a few spots. I'm not going to quote the Bible but it to says some terrible things. Consider the "invasion of Caanan". Consider the wars of the OT. Consider what some of the Psalms say. Without looking it up the people are told to bash the brains of the young children out on the rocks.
If you listen to and discuss with some of the more peace minded Muslims and some of the Muslim scholars they decry the violence in the name of God. They are ashamed of the extremists just as I am ashamed of the Christian extremists.
Extremists do not represent God but their own agenda.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Ted,
Is there a place in the world TODAY where Christians are killing non-Christian people in the name of Jesus? Is there another contemporary religion that is carrying out the teachings of its Prophet in the way that Islam is in so many places around the world?
You say you are as ashamed of Christian extremists as they are of their extremists. Where are the Christian extremists who are conducting themselves anything at all like the Islamic extremists?
Is there a place in the Bible that calls for Christians to make war against Muslims? Is there a place in the Bible that calls on Christians to "Slay them wherever you find them...� We don’t stone adulterous wives anymore because Jesus put that law in perspective but it is still practiced in Islam. These things were condoned by Mohamed 600 years after Jesus taught the spirit of the law.
I watch fairly closely for a sign that Islam is rejecting the Jihadists but I’m not seeing it. There may be those within Islam that are appalled but the leadership isn’t speaking out very loudly.
I’m sorry Ted. I’m seeing facts. I’m a combat veteran and when I see our soldiers being torn away from their families it makes me cry (literally). When I see widows and fatherless children because of these animals it makes me cry. There is no group on earth you can compare these blood thirsty snakes to. Christians hold their extremists in check, why don’t Muslims?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Sounds about right to me, Jackie. Good post!
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Ted, but you will agree that there is a difference in what is written and what is being practiced. The whole world is threatened with the menace of terrorism, the jehad in the name of religion. Lakhs of innocent people are being killed on this earth by inciting people in the name of religion. The quotes referred by Clint are being used to motivate these jehadis.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
jackie wrote: My point was that if you say Christianity is a peaceful religion, according to scripture then you can say that Islam, according to scripture is peaceful. Both have quotes promoting peace and a few not so peaceful quotes.........
I think your analysis should be accepted. All religions preach peace but the important thing is how their followers practice their beliefs.
I think your analysis should be accepted. All religions preach peace but the important thing is how their followers practice their beliefs.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
koan wrote: I think if people put as much effort into guiding their own lives as they do into judging the lives of others the world would be a much better place. I worry about my neighbour's health and mental well being...but do I have to worry about his/her soul? I think not. If there is a God, I would think God would worry about that so I don't have to.
Praying for the peace of someones troubled soul or spirit? No harm in that.
But I certainly agree with the rest!
They say charity begins at home. If we cant be more loving and understanding to those who are around us the most, then how can people be expected to be that way to those who arent?
Praying for the peace of someones troubled soul or spirit? No harm in that.
But I certainly agree with the rest!
They say charity begins at home. If we cant be more loving and understanding to those who are around us the most, then how can people be expected to be that way to those who arent?
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Suresh Gupta wrote: [QUOTE=jackie]My point was that if you say Christianity is a peaceful religion, according to scripture then you can say that Islam, according to scripture is peaceful. Both have quotes promoting peace and a few not so peaceful quotes.........[QUOTE/]
I think your analysis should be accepted. All religions preach peace but the important thing is how their followers practice their beliefs.
I think the basic problem is that each religion professes that it contains THE absolute truth. And who is going to admit their own belief was wrong? And so the conflicts continue.
Never mind the fact that conflict itself is wrong. Killing is wrong. The reason why these conflicts keep going is wrong. So that puts us back to sqare one. Mans search for the ultimate truth. And is there just one, or many?
I think your analysis should be accepted. All religions preach peace but the important thing is how their followers practice their beliefs.
I think the basic problem is that each religion professes that it contains THE absolute truth. And who is going to admit their own belief was wrong? And so the conflicts continue.
Never mind the fact that conflict itself is wrong. Killing is wrong. The reason why these conflicts keep going is wrong. So that puts us back to sqare one. Mans search for the ultimate truth. And is there just one, or many?
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
You are right Raven.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Suresh Gupta wrote: Ted, but you will agree that there is a difference in what is written and what is being practiced. The whole world is threatened with the menace of terrorism, the jehad in the name of religion. Lakhs of innocent people are being killed on this earth by inciting people in the name of religion. The quotes referred by Clint are being used to motivate these jehadis.
Right. This boils down to what is being practiced today. Reference to the past behavior of Christians or any other religion is being made in an attempt to excuse the present behavior of Islam.
Right. This boils down to what is being practiced today. Reference to the past behavior of Christians or any other religion is being made in an attempt to excuse the present behavior of Islam.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
From the time of the reformation when the bible was first printed in the common tongues of europe those reading it started arguing about whose interpretation of the meaning was right and whose way of worship was the correct one.
It wasn't just catholic against protestant it was episcopalean against presbytarian, presbytarian against methodist nobody liked the quakers. In essence the message of both Islam and christianity is basically the same, worship god, live inpeace and respect those around you. What isd wrong with religon is the justification it gives many to start telling everybody else how to live, if you disliked someone you could find justification in the bible, if you had a prurient fascination with sex then being a priest or a minister gave you the right to tell people why they were wrong to do what they were doing.
There are fewer secular wars, but there were an awful lot started by religious zealotry and prejudice. Where in the past there was no political means of expressing dissent it tended to come out in a religious form, for every religious war you can also find economic reasons behind it or some reason to fight oppression as well. At the time of the reformation the catholic church was incredibly corrupt and hypocritiucal-selling fake relics to a gullible public and perhaps more importantly holding lands and people in thrall to the church estates.
With Henry Tudor it was more about who ruled-the king or the pope in Rome, same with the protestant staes in Germany, who ruled? The Dutch were peculiar,they had a republic.
In the 19th and 20th century dissent started becoming more political in its expression.
If you look at the middle east fundamentalism has a hold in those countries where there is no political freedom-loke Saudi arabia, dissent will out, add in a moral justification and any crime can be justified in the eyes of the lord god.
Islam, like christianity was hijacked and used to justify war and expansion and empire building be it the ottomen of the middle ages or the British Empire.
Bit like Manifest Destiny in America moral justification for what was simple tribal warfare with the strong defeating and taking from the weak just as it was used to justify european empire building in the same way. Race, religon and economics are a formidable mixture.
http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/di ... 2eeng.html
Not trying to wind anybody up here by the way, just making a point. You can't blame religon for everything it's human nature to make war on each other and for tribe to quarrel with tribe over land and resources. It's been at the back of every conflict since time began all that differs now is the scale and i would like to hink a growing propensity for ordinary people to turn round and tell their leaders to get stuffed when they want them to go to war. It's hard to imagine a conflict with the casualties on the scale of ww1 isn't it? It's harder to get people to fight-well I would like to think so anyway. Doesn't mean we won't though.
It wasn't just catholic against protestant it was episcopalean against presbytarian, presbytarian against methodist nobody liked the quakers. In essence the message of both Islam and christianity is basically the same, worship god, live inpeace and respect those around you. What isd wrong with religon is the justification it gives many to start telling everybody else how to live, if you disliked someone you could find justification in the bible, if you had a prurient fascination with sex then being a priest or a minister gave you the right to tell people why they were wrong to do what they were doing.
There are fewer secular wars, but there were an awful lot started by religious zealotry and prejudice. Where in the past there was no political means of expressing dissent it tended to come out in a religious form, for every religious war you can also find economic reasons behind it or some reason to fight oppression as well. At the time of the reformation the catholic church was incredibly corrupt and hypocritiucal-selling fake relics to a gullible public and perhaps more importantly holding lands and people in thrall to the church estates.
With Henry Tudor it was more about who ruled-the king or the pope in Rome, same with the protestant staes in Germany, who ruled? The Dutch were peculiar,they had a republic.
In the 19th and 20th century dissent started becoming more political in its expression.
If you look at the middle east fundamentalism has a hold in those countries where there is no political freedom-loke Saudi arabia, dissent will out, add in a moral justification and any crime can be justified in the eyes of the lord god.
Islam, like christianity was hijacked and used to justify war and expansion and empire building be it the ottomen of the middle ages or the British Empire.
Bit like Manifest Destiny in America moral justification for what was simple tribal warfare with the strong defeating and taking from the weak just as it was used to justify european empire building in the same way. Race, religon and economics are a formidable mixture.
http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/di ... 2eeng.html
Not trying to wind anybody up here by the way, just making a point. You can't blame religon for everything it's human nature to make war on each other and for tribe to quarrel with tribe over land and resources. It's been at the back of every conflict since time began all that differs now is the scale and i would like to hink a growing propensity for ordinary people to turn round and tell their leaders to get stuffed when they want them to go to war. It's hard to imagine a conflict with the casualties on the scale of ww1 isn't it? It's harder to get people to fight-well I would like to think so anyway. Doesn't mean we won't though.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
gmc :-6
An excellent post. A part of the problem from the religious aspect is the idea of exclusiveism--my faith is the only true one and all must become . . . . to be saved.
Shalom
Ted :-6
An excellent post. A part of the problem from the religious aspect is the idea of exclusiveism--my faith is the only true one and all must become . . . . to be saved.
Shalom
Ted :-6
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint wrote: Right. This boils down to what is being practiced today. Reference to the past behavior of Christians or any other religion is being made in an attempt to excuse the present behavior of Islam.
I will agree with you.
I will agree with you.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
I always quote 'Religion is bad for your health - in Ireland
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
capt_buzzard wrote: I always quote 'Religion is bad for your health - in Ireland
Capt. I find your quote interesting. I will like to know more about it.
Capt. I find your quote interesting. I will like to know more about it.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
One can be killed in Northern Ireland, because you are either a Roman Catholic or a Protestant.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
capt_buzzard wrote: One can be killed in Northern Ireland, because you are either a Roman Catholic or a Protestant.
They practice intolerance when the religion teaches tolerance.
They practice intolerance when the religion teaches tolerance.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Suresh Gupta wrote: They practice intolerance when the religion teaches tolerance.
I need to differ with you on that. Religion should teach compassion but not tolerance. A religion will lose its core values if it becomes tolerant. My belief is that we don’t tolerate things that are wrong but that we should have compassion for those who are doing wrong. As a Christian I believe that Jesus sacrificed his life on the cross for us because of what we do wrong. It was an act of compassion driven by perfect love because God cannot tolerate sin. Jesus took the sin upon himself because we can't stand before God in our sinful condition.
I would say they don't practice compassion when the religion teaches compassion.
I need to differ with you on that. Religion should teach compassion but not tolerance. A religion will lose its core values if it becomes tolerant. My belief is that we don’t tolerate things that are wrong but that we should have compassion for those who are doing wrong. As a Christian I believe that Jesus sacrificed his life on the cross for us because of what we do wrong. It was an act of compassion driven by perfect love because God cannot tolerate sin. Jesus took the sin upon himself because we can't stand before God in our sinful condition.
I would say they don't practice compassion when the religion teaches compassion.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint wrote: I need to differ with you on that. Religion should teach compassion but not tolerance. A religion will lose its core values if it becomes tolerant. My belief is that we don’t tolerate things that are wrong but that we should have compassion for those who are doing wrong. As a Christian I believe that Jesus sacrificed his life on the cross for us because of what we do wrong. It was an act of compassion driven by perfect love because God cannot tolerate sin. Jesus took the sin upon himself because we can't stand before God in our sinful condition.
I would say they don't practice compassion when the religion teaches compassion.
But I don't differ with you as both compassion and tolerance are two sides of the same coin. If a person practices compassion the tolerance is automatically taken care of. And any person capable of tolerating other people's way of worship must be full of compassion. A good teacher displays tolerance and compassion. He takes upon himself the sins of his pupils. He guides his pupils on the path of God. He is God incarnate and Jesus is one such teacher.
Now anyone full of compassion for others will only practice tolerance and will not kill others because they have a different faith or practice their faith in a different way.
I would say they don't practice compassion when the religion teaches compassion.
But I don't differ with you as both compassion and tolerance are two sides of the same coin. If a person practices compassion the tolerance is automatically taken care of. And any person capable of tolerating other people's way of worship must be full of compassion. A good teacher displays tolerance and compassion. He takes upon himself the sins of his pupils. He guides his pupils on the path of God. He is God incarnate and Jesus is one such teacher.
Now anyone full of compassion for others will only practice tolerance and will not kill others because they have a different faith or practice their faith in a different way.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
I agree with what you said, Suresh, except the part of taking on the sins. I do not think that is necessary or appropriate to being compassionate.
To me compassion is understanding that people can only do the best they can with their knowledge at the time and thereby forgiving them for perceived errors. Although compassion creates tolerance I also do not see the benefit to letting one person's reality create misery for people of another understanding. There is tolerance but only to the point that the person receiving compassion is not impacting the lives of people in a victim situation. Each person does have their own right to create reality as it suits them but not to take away from the reality of those around them by force.
To me compassion is understanding that people can only do the best they can with their knowledge at the time and thereby forgiving them for perceived errors. Although compassion creates tolerance I also do not see the benefit to letting one person's reality create misery for people of another understanding. There is tolerance but only to the point that the person receiving compassion is not impacting the lives of people in a victim situation. Each person does have their own right to create reality as it suits them but not to take away from the reality of those around them by force.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
posted by clint
I need to differ with you on that. Religion should teach compassion but not tolerance. A religion will lose its core values if it becomes tolerant. My belief is that we don’t tolerate things that are wrong but that we should have compassion for those who are doing wrong. As a Christian I believe that Jesus sacrificed his life on the cross for us because of what we do wrong. It was an act of compassion driven by perfect love because God cannot tolerate sin. Jesus took the sin upon himself because we can't stand before God in our sinful condition.
So what would your view be of a religion that taught compassion and the worship of god but did not tolerate the worship of graven images representing that god as being pagan idolatory and that those who followed such practices should be not be tolerated but condemned and forced to change their ways for the sake of their eternal souls?
Indeed what would you think of a religion that taught compassion but believed that god should be worshipped using graven images and in the prescribed manner and that any deviation from the recommended method of worship should not be tolerated, was anathema and those carrying out such practices should not be tolerated and forced to change their ways for the sake of their eternal souls?
What about a religion that believed the lord's day should be kept holy and any deviation from this teaching should not be tolerated and those who did not keep this day should not be should be prevented from doing otherwise for the sake of their eternal souls?
What about a religion that taught compassion but believed that the word of god had been handed down to them and any teaching that did not agree with that should not be tolerated- for the sake of their eternal souls?
I respect your beliefs but one of the things that really antgonises me about fundamentalist christianity or islam or any fundamentalism is the blind intolerance and willingness to impose their views on everybody. The blind arrogance that they are right and everybody else is wrong. A sin is a sin because they believe it so.
Where is the compassion in the catholic and protestant martyrs? In those who were burned at the stake for their beliefs just like their saviour or in those who set fire to them, cleansing them for the sake of their eternal souls?
I am oftentimes of the opinion that those who are intolerant of others are so because they are not secure in their faith. The belief that they and only they have the right of it is a supreme arrogance.
So many religons so much intolerance, if they just kept their conflicts to themselves and prayed for each other instead of fighting over it.
I need to differ with you on that. Religion should teach compassion but not tolerance. A religion will lose its core values if it becomes tolerant. My belief is that we don’t tolerate things that are wrong but that we should have compassion for those who are doing wrong. As a Christian I believe that Jesus sacrificed his life on the cross for us because of what we do wrong. It was an act of compassion driven by perfect love because God cannot tolerate sin. Jesus took the sin upon himself because we can't stand before God in our sinful condition.
So what would your view be of a religion that taught compassion and the worship of god but did not tolerate the worship of graven images representing that god as being pagan idolatory and that those who followed such practices should be not be tolerated but condemned and forced to change their ways for the sake of their eternal souls?
Indeed what would you think of a religion that taught compassion but believed that god should be worshipped using graven images and in the prescribed manner and that any deviation from the recommended method of worship should not be tolerated, was anathema and those carrying out such practices should not be tolerated and forced to change their ways for the sake of their eternal souls?
What about a religion that believed the lord's day should be kept holy and any deviation from this teaching should not be tolerated and those who did not keep this day should not be should be prevented from doing otherwise for the sake of their eternal souls?
What about a religion that taught compassion but believed that the word of god had been handed down to them and any teaching that did not agree with that should not be tolerated- for the sake of their eternal souls?
I respect your beliefs but one of the things that really antgonises me about fundamentalist christianity or islam or any fundamentalism is the blind intolerance and willingness to impose their views on everybody. The blind arrogance that they are right and everybody else is wrong. A sin is a sin because they believe it so.
Where is the compassion in the catholic and protestant martyrs? In those who were burned at the stake for their beliefs just like their saviour or in those who set fire to them, cleansing them for the sake of their eternal souls?
I am oftentimes of the opinion that those who are intolerant of others are so because they are not secure in their faith. The belief that they and only they have the right of it is a supreme arrogance.
So many religons so much intolerance, if they just kept their conflicts to themselves and prayed for each other instead of fighting over it.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
gmc :-6
An excellent post. As a Christian Pluralist I accept and believe in tolerance. Until we have tolerance we will never have peace in this world.
Shalom
Ted :-6
An excellent post. As a Christian Pluralist I accept and believe in tolerance. Until we have tolerance we will never have peace in this world.
Shalom
Ted :-6
-
telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
A few years ago my wife and I were in Venice, and, to indulge my sad fascination with the subject, we toured an exhibition of instruments of torture that were used in the Inquisition of the Middle Ages. These were not replicas. They were antiques- the actual machines that true believers bled and died on because they would not relinquish their faith (and a few unfortunate others who happened to get the wrong person mad at them). There was the Rack, and the Iron Maiden, the Impaling Spike, and some other tools of unimaginable cruelty. They were all displayed in a barren warehouse with plain, unpainted brick walls, and exposed beam ceilings. It looked more like a workplace than a museum- like what I would imagine a torture chamber of the Inquisition would have looked like. I thought to myself, “What kind of people worked in a place like this? Who clocked-in in the morning, and clocked out at night after a hard day of torturing “heretics?†Who sat on the curb outside, eating their lunch, while the screams and moans of agony came out of the windows? Then it dawned on me. These people believed in a god who operates a 24 hour torture chamber with millions suffering there who will live there in agony forever. By torturing living people, they were only emulating the god they worshipped, who tortures people after life. The Inquisition workers were “living their faith.â€
Only the religions that worship a torturer-god of eternal hellfire call those who don’t believe as they do “enemies†and feel the urge to take up arms against them to kill and maim, or take over governments to use the justice system to force their beliefs upon others, “because to let them go to hell forever must be avoided at all costs- even if you have to punish them.â€
Only the religions that worship a torturer-god of eternal hellfire call those who don’t believe as they do “enemies†and feel the urge to take up arms against them to kill and maim, or take over governments to use the justice system to force their beliefs upon others, “because to let them go to hell forever must be avoided at all costs- even if you have to punish them.â€
Look what the cat dragged in.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Telaquapacky,
An interesting narration but sadly true.
An interesting narration but sadly true.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
gmc wrote: .........I am oftentimes of the opinion that those who are intolerant of others are so because they are not secure in their faith. The belief that they and only they have the right of it is a supreme arrogance.
So many religons so much intolerance, if they just kept their conflicts to themselves and prayed for each other instead of fighting over it.
A right opinion no doubt.
So many religons so much intolerance, if they just kept their conflicts to themselves and prayed for each other instead of fighting over it.
A right opinion no doubt.
-
Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Fewer secular wars because of religion
koan wrote: I agree with what you said, Suresh, except the part of taking on the sins. I do not think that is necessary or appropriate to being compassionate.
To me compassion is understanding that people can only do the best they can with their knowledge at the time and thereby forgiving them for perceived errors. Although compassion creates tolerance I also do not see the benefit to letting one person's reality create misery for people of another understanding. There is tolerance but only to the point that the person receiving compassion is not impacting the lives of people in a victim situation. Each person does have their own right to create reality as it suits them but not to take away from the reality of those around them by force.
Normal human beings are not capable of taking on the sins of others. Only great people like Jesus can do that. You are right that for normal human beings it is not
necessary or appropriate to being compassionate.
In your second para, you are once again right like every time.
To me compassion is understanding that people can only do the best they can with their knowledge at the time and thereby forgiving them for perceived errors. Although compassion creates tolerance I also do not see the benefit to letting one person's reality create misery for people of another understanding. There is tolerance but only to the point that the person receiving compassion is not impacting the lives of people in a victim situation. Each person does have their own right to create reality as it suits them but not to take away from the reality of those around them by force.
Normal human beings are not capable of taking on the sins of others. Only great people like Jesus can do that. You are right that for normal human beings it is not
necessary or appropriate to being compassionate.
In your second para, you are once again right like every time.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
I’m not saying that tolerance is a bad thing. Tolerance that grows from compassion is, I think, an unavoidable outcome. Tolerance is not something I can allow in my own life. I cannot become tolerant of my own misdeeds. I cannot expect that God is tolerant of my misdeeds and by extension the misdeeds of others. I’m not saying that we should take up arms against those who have different beliefs.
I view the present day emphasis on tolerance as unhealthy for humankind. Too much tolerance of self destructive behavior will result in self destruction. That is why I think the emphasis should be on compassion. Compassion will prevent extreme behavior stemming from healthy intolerance.
I view the present day emphasis on tolerance as unhealthy for humankind. Too much tolerance of self destructive behavior will result in self destruction. That is why I think the emphasis should be on compassion. Compassion will prevent extreme behavior stemming from healthy intolerance.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint :-6
Glad you clarified that a bit. I too can become intolerant of my own stupidity.
After many years of study, prayer, meditation, discussion with clergy and theologians and Bible scholars I have come to the position where I believe in both ecumenism and pluralist. I firmly believe that God has led me this way. I believe tolerance of others faiths is very important and truly the will of God. I respect the validity of all the great faiths of the world as generally all folks are seeking God.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Glad you clarified that a bit. I too can become intolerant of my own stupidity.
After many years of study, prayer, meditation, discussion with clergy and theologians and Bible scholars I have come to the position where I believe in both ecumenism and pluralist. I firmly believe that God has led me this way. I believe tolerance of others faiths is very important and truly the will of God. I respect the validity of all the great faiths of the world as generally all folks are seeking God.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Fewer secular wars because of religion
I believe, neither in ecumenism nor pluralism but I will have to say that I am tolerant of another person’s religion. I don’t see anything to gain by not being tolerant in that case. I will, however, not sit quietly while a religion that calls me an infidel because of what I believe sets about to destroy me. When it gets to that level I'm not tolerant.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Fewer secular wars because of religion
Clint :-6
I believe you are talking about Islam. Islam like Christianity is basically a relgion of peace but some parts of it have been usurped by the extremists just as parts of Chritianity have been.
It is the extremists that we must worry about not the average faithful in the other faiths.
Shalom
Ted :-6
I believe you are talking about Islam. Islam like Christianity is basically a relgion of peace but some parts of it have been usurped by the extremists just as parts of Chritianity have been.
It is the extremists that we must worry about not the average faithful in the other faiths.
Shalom
Ted :-6