coberst;454660 wrote: I think that to say I believe in God is rationally vacant.
I think that to say I believe there is no God is rationally vacant.
To say I know there is a God is irrational.
To say I know there is no God is irrational.
I find that most individuals who profess to be atheist is really just anti-theist.
I am an agnostic.
Just for a change I find myself in total agreement with something you've posted.
belief or non belief in a god is a matter of faith which you either have or you don't.
posted by weber
Did you ever take close notice that atheism the word is made up of the word theism except for one small little teeny tiny "a".
I never thought about that until now. The two opposite words are almost exactly the same. If I had more time I would try to expand on that.
a when used before a word like that means without-amoral means without morals, atheist means without god, asexual means without sex, anaemia means without blood.
Chambers Reference Online
a-2 or (before a vowel, and in scientific compounds before h) an- prefix, signifying not; without; opposite to • amoral • ahistorical • anaemia • anhydrous.
ETYMOLOGY: Greek.
posted by adamzapple
When "non-theism" becomes the official stance of governments it leads to oppression and brutalilty. Rigid atheism is every bit as dangerous (more so, I would argue) than religion. Atheist dictators have murdered tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions - Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Kim Jong Il, etc. while banning religous practice under penalty of imprisonment or death.
Not all atheists are close-minded but many are. Atheism as practiced by the secular progressives in the U.S. is dogmatic and intolerant as they seek to force communities and individuals to bend to and live by their "non-theological" viewpoint (Soledad Memorial Cross in California is a prime example). That's what's wrong with atheism.
maybe both extremes atttract the same kind of mentality. it's the same thing that's wrong with religon. Both are dangerous to those who would be tolerant of others but at least aetheists don't kid themselves that god is on their side so it's OK. One of the features of the 20th century is the ability to kill millions rather than thousands. You don't have to look very hard to find plenty of atrocities commited in the name of one religon or another and christianiity is just as bad as any of the others, if the Roman church or the protestants had had napalm they would have used it with equal glee on the enemies of god.
In the UK we have just commemorated the ceremonial burning of a catholic, poetic justice in a way since the catholics were pretty keen on burning heretics given half a chance. I don't know about the states but in the UK any attempt by religious leaders (in some parts of the country anyway) to exert their influence rapidly becomes a sectarian issue. Religon can be extremely divisive, especially in the united kingdom. it should be kept away from the schools and seperate faith based education is imo a very bad thing to allow. I don't mean ban religon but rather concentrate on the tolerance of others bit. Tolerance means you put up with things you may sometimes disagree with.
We have the ludicrous situation where a mixed faith school catholic/protestant ran in to problems because despite sharing the same classes the catholics wanted wanted seperate dooors for catholic pupils to enter the schools. It's very hard to take the pronouncements of religious leaders seriously when they come out with daft things like that.
http://education.guardian.co.uk/faithsc ... 43,00.html
I get the impression the "debate" about religon in the states is a whole different ball game from here or indeed most of europe. i.e attitudes are more polarised.
Religious leaders are entitled to express their opinion and their followers can do what they want. But when they start to believe that they should be allowed a say in the way non believers live their lives and feel they are entitled to condemn those who don't share their view and want laws changed to suit their beliefs they are starting to try and impose their belief system on others. No one is forcing them to get divorced if they don't want to, or have sex before marraige ior whatever their issues of the day may be but the delusion they have some kind of higher moral right is just that and nothing more.
posted by red glitter
In itself it's just another belief system.
No offence but that it is not. How can you have a belief system about something you belief does not exist? It's absurd.
posted by spot
Many secularist commentators argue that the growing role of faith in society represents a dangerous development. However, they fail to recognise that public atheism is itself an intolerant faith position.
It's a subtle sophism on the part of some religious leaders to try and suggest that secularism and atheism are one and the same thing. They are not. Many who prefer a secular society to live in are deeply religious but recognise that a secular society is by and large a more tolerant one than a religious one. Monotheism and tolerance of other beleifs are mutually exclusive.
posted by accountable
Unfortunately, I won't be much help in getting this conversation going, because I don't feel a need to defend my beliefs and don't see intellectual argument as a way to sway spiritual belief; but there are plenty here champing at the bit.
Good for you. I don't see why you need to defend your beliefs either. Can't say I share any of them but I don't feel threatened by them either. maybe there should be a what's "wrong with arguing about religon all the time the TV is rubbish anyway" thread.:yh_rotfl
Maybe if muslims could get drunk occasionally they wouldn't take their religon so seriously. Hard to be a fundamentalist when you're paralytic.
I don't know about god but I do believe in the cosmic comedian and the main tenet of his belief system. "lifes a joke we just don't know the punchline" You don't have to go to church or anything but each day you must laugh at least once and understand the concept of irony.
I personally don't feel there *is* anything "wrong" with atheism. In itself it's just another belief system. I'm not a christian and don't subscribe to the bible or other books but I have a faith system mapped out that works for me personally. I too, think a lot of religion is based in fairy tale or at least huge metaphor. No harm meant to those who believe. It wouldn't work for me and the only thing I wonder about is how the atheist makes it through all the crap in life without faith in something...? Maybe an atheist here could answer that question for me...? 
)
Must have been reading that bible and found and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
