ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS
By LTC(RET) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D.,author of "On Killing."
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so
because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy
things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that
may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,
even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth
dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the
United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:
"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive
creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the
murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate
is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans
are not inclined to hurt one another.
Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent
crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record
rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which
means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one
in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are
committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably
less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation:
We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still
remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people
who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme
provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the
pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow
into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue
shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and
someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For
now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves
feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there
who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil
men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget
that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in
denial.
"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to
protect the flock and confront the wolf."
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive
citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy
for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But
what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow
citizens?
What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking
the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the
universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed
Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep,
wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes
them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the
world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire
extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids'
schools.
But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police
officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely
to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the
sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone
coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the
path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the
wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is
that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep
dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished
and removed.
The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative
democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that
there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them
where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our
airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much
rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."
Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to
hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough
high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not
have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had
nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT
teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel
those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs
feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.
Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded
hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt
differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how
many times you heard the word hero?
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a
sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a
funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the
breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a
righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous
battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move
to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep
pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After
the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America
said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said,
"Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I
could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a
warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there.
You want to be able to make a difference.
There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but
he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able
to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the
population.
There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals
convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious,
predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast
majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped
walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like
big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able
to protect itself.
Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be
genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most
people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans
are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was
honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the
man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an
operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other
three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone
and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to
the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a
transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business
people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves,
ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible
evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke
Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of
police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real
sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves.
They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be
whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay,
but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your
loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If
you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt
you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want
to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious
and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive
in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are
well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt
holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of
religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer
in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your
place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the
break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other
cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I
asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at
a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally
deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen
people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day
if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do
was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the
eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself
after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer
was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and
would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for
"heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective,
or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids'
school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can
happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often
their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog
quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with
yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there
helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically
destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is
counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and
horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth
when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't
train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy.
Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you
are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at
your moment of truth.
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11
book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to
terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an
insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it
isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more
unsettling."
Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in
small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some
level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of
his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you
step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that
the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime.
Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you
walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to
yourself...
"Baa."
This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no
dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees,
a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on
the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the
other.
Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America
took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps
toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started
taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that
continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved
ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS
By LTC(RET) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D.,author of "On Killing."
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so
because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy
things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that
may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,
even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth
dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the
United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:
"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive
creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the
murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate
is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans
are not inclined to hurt one another.
Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent
crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record
rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which
means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one
in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are
committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably
less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation:
We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still
remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people
who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme
provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the
pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow
into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue
shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and
someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For
now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves
feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there
who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil
men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget
that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in
denial.
"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to
protect the flock and confront the wolf."
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive
citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy
for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But
what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow
citizens?
What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking
the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the
universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed
Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep,
wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes
them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the
world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire
extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids'
schools.
But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police
officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely
to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the
sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone
coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the
path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the
wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is
that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep
dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished
and removed.
The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative
democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that
there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them
where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our
airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much
rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."
Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to
hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough
high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not
have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had
nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT
teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel
those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs
feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.
Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded
hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt
differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how
many times you heard the word hero?
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a
sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a
funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the
breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a
righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous
battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move
to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep
pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After
the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America
said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said,
"Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I
could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a
warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there.
You want to be able to make a difference.
There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but
he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able
to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the
population.
There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals
convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious,
predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast
majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped
walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like
big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able
to protect itself.
Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be
genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most
people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans
are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was
honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the
man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an
operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other
three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone
and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to
the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a
transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business
people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves,
ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible
evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke
Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of
police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real
sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves.
They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be
whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay,
but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your
loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If
you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt
you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want
to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious
and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive
in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are
well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt
holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of
religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer
in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your
place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the
break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other
cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I
asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at
a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally
deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen
people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day
if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do
was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the
eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself
after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer
was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and
would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for
"heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective,
or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids'
school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can
happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often
their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog
quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with
yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there
helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically
destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is
counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and
horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth
when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't
train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy.
Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you
are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at
your moment of truth.
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11
book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to
terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an
insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it
isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more
unsettling."
Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in
small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some
level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of
his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you
step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that
the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime.
Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you
walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to
yourself...
"Baa."
This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no
dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees,
a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on
the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the
other.
Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America
took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps
toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started
taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that
continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved
ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Good piece-----------thanks
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
I guess I'm a sheepdog, then. I prefer describing myself as a lioness, though.
I am woman. Hear me roar! :p
I am woman. Hear me roar! :p
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Very simplistic way of looking at humanity. Pretty useless analogy really.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
gmc wrote: Very simplistic way of looking at humanity. Pretty useless analogy really.
Oh, I agree. The whole piece was whacked, -silly, in fact.
Better pack a pistol next time I go to church. Dunno when some wacko wolf is gonna come in and pounce.
Oh, I agree. The whole piece was whacked, -silly, in fact.
Better pack a pistol next time I go to church. Dunno when some wacko wolf is gonna come in and pounce.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
gmc wrote: Very simplistic way of looking at humanity. Pretty useless analogy really.
BAAAAAAA
BAAAAAAA
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Awesome read. Thanks for posting.
I probably posted that in an ambien trance-soryy
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Beth wrote: Oh, I agree. The whole piece was whacked, -silly, in fact.
Better pack a pistol next time I go to church. Dunno when some wacko wolf is gonna come in and pounce.
You mean "Pounce" like this?
What happened at the church: On 1999-SEP-15, Larry Gene Ashbrook, walked into the Wedgwood Baptist Church in southwest Fort Worth TX. An evening youth rally and concert was in progress. It was intended to be a follow-up event for students who had taken part in the See You at the Pole public school prayer event that morning. About 150 young people from throughout the Fort Worth area were in attendance. A Christian rock group was playing.
Ashbrook was carrying two guns. He opened fire with one, killing 6 and wounding 8 persons. He then set off a pipe bomb. Some media accounts state that the bottom fell off the bomb and it did not detonate. Actually, the pipe did explode, but the shrapnel landed harmlessly in the balcony. Hearing the approaching police sirens, he sat down in a pew and killed himself. One of the wounded victims, a teenager, later died in hospital. The victims were: Kristi Beckel, 14; Shawn Brown, 23; Sydney Browning, 36; Joseph Ennis, 14; Cassandra Griffin, 14; Susan 'Kim' Jones, 23; and Justin Ray, 17. Justin Laird was one of the wounded; he was permanently paralyzed below the waist by the killer.
Witnesses have stated that the shooter was angrily spouting anti-Baptist rhetoric during the rampage.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the
break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other
cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I
asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at
a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally
deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen
people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day
if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do
was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the
eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself
after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer
was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and
would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for
"heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective,
or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids'
school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can
happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Better pack a pistol next time I go to church. Dunno when some wacko wolf is gonna come in and pounce.
What happened at the church: On 1999-SEP-15, Larry Gene Ashbrook, walked into the Wedgwood Baptist Church in southwest Fort Worth TX. An evening youth rally and concert was in progress. It was intended to be a follow-up event for students who had taken part in the See You at the Pole public school prayer event that morning. About 150 young people from throughout the Fort Worth area were in attendance. A Christian rock group was playing.
Ashbrook was carrying two guns. He opened fire with one, killing 6 and wounding 8 persons. He then set off a pipe bomb. Some media accounts state that the bottom fell off the bomb and it did not detonate. Actually, the pipe did explode, but the shrapnel landed harmlessly in the balcony. Hearing the approaching police sirens, he sat down in a pew and killed himself. One of the wounded victims, a teenager, later died in hospital. The victims were: Kristi Beckel, 14; Shawn Brown, 23; Sydney Browning, 36; Joseph Ennis, 14; Cassandra Griffin, 14; Susan 'Kim' Jones, 23; and Justin Ray, 17. Justin Laird was one of the wounded; he was permanently paralyzed below the waist by the killer.
Witnesses have stated that the shooter was angrily spouting anti-Baptist rhetoric during the rampage.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the
break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other
cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I
asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at
a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally
deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen
people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day
if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do
was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the
eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself
after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer
was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and
would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for
"heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective,
or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids'
school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can
happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
- greydeadhead
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:52 am
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
yes. perhaps a silly simplistic view, but you have to admit it is true. You have the doers/defenders and the talkers/hiders in society.
Feed your spirit by living near it -- Magic Hat Brewery bottle cap
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
I see. So, a remote and random incident makes that a person should carry a weapon with them at all times. Hmmm. To be honest, I think the officer that you cited has post tramatic stress disorder and from paranoia.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Beth wrote: I see. So, a remote and random incident makes that a person should carry a weapon with them at all times. Hmmm. To be honest, I think the officer that you cited has post tramatic stress disorder and from paranoia.It is not as remote as you think. I don't think he is saying everyone should carry but it would be best if a few qualified people were carrying protection for ALL......
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
It is remote. These mass shootings are isolated incidents. I'm more likely to be murdered by my husband or a pissed off neighbor than I am to be shot at in a church or at a school.
I understand the doc is well qualified and all, but some of his analogy is faulty and over simplified.
I understand the doc is well qualified and all, but some of his analogy is faulty and over simplified.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Beth wrote: I understand the doc is well qualified and all, but some of his analogy is faulty and over simplified.Eleanor Roosevelt (My Days)
A little simplification would be the first step toward rational living, I think.
Charles Mingus
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
Hans Hofmann
The ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak.
John Morley, 19th-century British statesman
Simplicity of character is no hindrance to the subtlety of intellect.
E. F. Schumacker
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of geniusâ€and a lot of courageâ€to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Ann Morrow Lindbergh (Gift from the Sea)
I have learned by some experience, by many examples, and by the writings of countless others before me, also occupied in the search, that certain environments, certain modes of life, certain rules of conduct are more conducive to inner and outer harmony than others. There are, in fact, certain roads that one may follow. Simplification of life is one of them.
Shall I find more.............?
A little simplification would be the first step toward rational living, I think.
Charles Mingus
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
Hans Hofmann
The ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak.
John Morley, 19th-century British statesman
Simplicity of character is no hindrance to the subtlety of intellect.
E. F. Schumacker
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of geniusâ€and a lot of courageâ€to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Ann Morrow Lindbergh (Gift from the Sea)
I have learned by some experience, by many examples, and by the writings of countless others before me, also occupied in the search, that certain environments, certain modes of life, certain rules of conduct are more conducive to inner and outer harmony than others. There are, in fact, certain roads that one may follow. Simplification of life is one of them.
Shall I find more.............?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Simplification is good in some things, but in the essay I don't agree. The topic is a very complex issue. It is over simplified basically making it a piece for dummies. It also escalates the risks we take in life. We are more likely to meet our doom via a car crash than from some shootem' up. The author seems to play on fear rather than taking a logical approach to the actual risk factors.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Beth wrote: It is remote. These mass shootings are isolated incidents. I'm more likely to be murdered by my husband or a pissed off neighbor than I am to be shot at in a church or at a school.
Should you take a gun to church?
Let me put that another way: Should it be legal for you to take a gun to church?
A group of people had gathered to worship, with some kind of apocalyptic church, in a rented conference room at a motel. Up in Wisconsin.
CBS News | Church, Police Probe 7 Murders | March 14, 2005 17:00:03
And right in the middle of things in walked a member of the congregation. He had a gun and a death wish and he just started shooting people. The minister and his family, random worshippers, everyone in sight.
When he emptied his gun he stood there, dumped the clip, slid in another one, and started shooting again.
He saved the last one for himself.
By then there were seven innocent people mortally wounded and several others hurting. People were running and screaming, there was blood all over the place, people were under the pews, sobbing and shouting into their cell phones.
That’s what happened.
And in the wake of that, the question demands to be asked: Should it be legal to take a gun into a church?
Some argue that they have no place there, that houses of worship are sanctuaries and retreats. Which, in fact, they are. That is one of the reasons we gather to worship, to feel the strength and goodness of one another’s spirits, to feel the peace of communal belief and fellowship.
Houses of worship are innately houses of peace.
So why would anyone want to bring an implement of destruction there? What possible place is that for an instrument designed to kill?
In most states now, law-abiding citizens can get permits to carry concealed handguns. In many of those states, however, there are restrictions on where those guns can be carried. Courthouses are typically out, as are schools and government buildings. And in some states, churches.
And other states want to join the club. They want to ban guns in churches.
And Saturday must be a factor in those considerations. But not the only factor.
There is also the issue of rights. If the state were to tell pistol permit holders that they could not carry their guns to church with them, would anyone’s rights be infringed?
For example, would adding the phrase “except in church†to “the right to keep and bear arms†be a violation of anyone’s rights? And taking away from churches the prerogative of deciding on their private property whether or not to allow guns, does that step on their toes?
And is there an issue beyond the legal right to control private property and the Constitutional right to carry a gun? Is there something beyond that at play?
The answer is, “Yes.â€
There is the natural law right to self-defense.
Last Saturday’s carnage is a reminder of the capriciousness and unpredictability of evil. A reminder of the fact that danger can confront us at any time and in any place.
The obvious lesson is that if it can threaten us anywhere, we should be able to defend ourselves anywhere. Even in church.
Saturday’s murderer was able to calmly shoot whomever he chose because no one in that worship service had the means to fight back. No one could fight fire with fire. When it’s a contest between a gun and a hymnal, the hymnal always loses.
Saturday’s murder is a stark reminder of what happens when people are defenseless. Who knows how many lives could have been saved if, when the bad guy came in and started shooting, one or more worshippers had been able to return fire. If the gunman had himself been put in jeopardy it is unlikely that he would have been able to do a fraction of the damage he did.
If you have the choice between being a sitting duck and a fighting lion, take the lion every time.
But some lawmakers want to take that away from people. They want to make churches places where self-defense is banned.
Which seems foolish at any time, but particularly in these times. With mosques being blown up routinely in the skirmishes of Muslim insurgents in Iraq, there’s no reason to believe that a Christian or Jewish house of worship in America would be spared becoming a terrorist target.
A church would be big, easy and defenseless.
From Muslim terrorists and American criminals.
So the answer is clear. The state has no business banning guns in churches. The state has no business turning houses of worship into sitting ducks.
Because when you disarm a place you don’t make it a sanctuary. You make it a target.
- by Bob Lonsberry © 2005
Should you take a gun to church?
Let me put that another way: Should it be legal for you to take a gun to church?
A group of people had gathered to worship, with some kind of apocalyptic church, in a rented conference room at a motel. Up in Wisconsin.
CBS News | Church, Police Probe 7 Murders | March 14, 2005 17:00:03
And right in the middle of things in walked a member of the congregation. He had a gun and a death wish and he just started shooting people. The minister and his family, random worshippers, everyone in sight.
When he emptied his gun he stood there, dumped the clip, slid in another one, and started shooting again.
He saved the last one for himself.
By then there were seven innocent people mortally wounded and several others hurting. People were running and screaming, there was blood all over the place, people were under the pews, sobbing and shouting into their cell phones.
That’s what happened.
And in the wake of that, the question demands to be asked: Should it be legal to take a gun into a church?
Some argue that they have no place there, that houses of worship are sanctuaries and retreats. Which, in fact, they are. That is one of the reasons we gather to worship, to feel the strength and goodness of one another’s spirits, to feel the peace of communal belief and fellowship.
Houses of worship are innately houses of peace.
So why would anyone want to bring an implement of destruction there? What possible place is that for an instrument designed to kill?
In most states now, law-abiding citizens can get permits to carry concealed handguns. In many of those states, however, there are restrictions on where those guns can be carried. Courthouses are typically out, as are schools and government buildings. And in some states, churches.
And other states want to join the club. They want to ban guns in churches.
And Saturday must be a factor in those considerations. But not the only factor.
There is also the issue of rights. If the state were to tell pistol permit holders that they could not carry their guns to church with them, would anyone’s rights be infringed?
For example, would adding the phrase “except in church†to “the right to keep and bear arms†be a violation of anyone’s rights? And taking away from churches the prerogative of deciding on their private property whether or not to allow guns, does that step on their toes?
And is there an issue beyond the legal right to control private property and the Constitutional right to carry a gun? Is there something beyond that at play?
The answer is, “Yes.â€
There is the natural law right to self-defense.
Last Saturday’s carnage is a reminder of the capriciousness and unpredictability of evil. A reminder of the fact that danger can confront us at any time and in any place.
The obvious lesson is that if it can threaten us anywhere, we should be able to defend ourselves anywhere. Even in church.
Saturday’s murderer was able to calmly shoot whomever he chose because no one in that worship service had the means to fight back. No one could fight fire with fire. When it’s a contest between a gun and a hymnal, the hymnal always loses.
Saturday’s murder is a stark reminder of what happens when people are defenseless. Who knows how many lives could have been saved if, when the bad guy came in and started shooting, one or more worshippers had been able to return fire. If the gunman had himself been put in jeopardy it is unlikely that he would have been able to do a fraction of the damage he did.
If you have the choice between being a sitting duck and a fighting lion, take the lion every time.
But some lawmakers want to take that away from people. They want to make churches places where self-defense is banned.
Which seems foolish at any time, but particularly in these times. With mosques being blown up routinely in the skirmishes of Muslim insurgents in Iraq, there’s no reason to believe that a Christian or Jewish house of worship in America would be spared becoming a terrorist target.
A church would be big, easy and defenseless.
From Muslim terrorists and American criminals.
So the answer is clear. The state has no business banning guns in churches. The state has no business turning houses of worship into sitting ducks.
Because when you disarm a place you don’t make it a sanctuary. You make it a target.
- by Bob Lonsberry © 2005
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
I'm a Sheep Dog for sure
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Still, it is an isolated incident- the church shooting. The church has every right to disallow firearms from being carried into the premises. Just as I have every right to forbid someone to enter my property carrying a firearm.
When I was a girl, a man blew up the back of a Winn Dixie in the Tampa area. I went to school with one of the survivors. The girl was badly burnt, had grafts, had lots of surgery, and wore a clear plastic shield over her face. Should I arm myself when entering a grocery store or wear a fire protective suit?
When I was a girl, a man blew up the back of a Winn Dixie in the Tampa area. I went to school with one of the survivors. The girl was badly burnt, had grafts, had lots of surgery, and wore a clear plastic shield over her face. Should I arm myself when entering a grocery store or wear a fire protective suit?
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Beth wrote: Should I arm myself when entering a grocery store or wear a fire protective suit?
You know that is what is so great here in the Land of Milk and Honey.........
You have the choice to do either. I would never fault you on your choice, unless it effects me or my family.
You make yours and I make mine. The Government. does not need to tell the churches that their members can not carry protection....BUT....If the churches say they do not allow weapons, then that is their right...........
It would probably SHOCK you how many people you interact every day with that are legally carrying.
One day you just might be glad they were and I bet 99 to 1 that you will never hope they weren't.
You know that is what is so great here in the Land of Milk and Honey.........
You have the choice to do either. I would never fault you on your choice, unless it effects me or my family.
You make yours and I make mine. The Government. does not need to tell the churches that their members can not carry protection....BUT....If the churches say they do not allow weapons, then that is their right...........
It would probably SHOCK you how many people you interact every day with that are legally carrying.
One day you just might be glad they were and I bet 99 to 1 that you will never hope they weren't.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
I know if the legally carrying walk into a store with a weapon, the store can have a person expelled. Most of the stores around here do not allow firearms to be carried into the premises, except by officers or security. I know my granny packs a pistol with her, carries it everywhere, even in places she shouldn't. I also know the dangers of firearms. I know that possessing a firearm can cause more harm than good in many cases. i also know that there are other ways to defend oneself besides carrying a firearm.
A random shooter could pic me off before I am even aware enough to pull out my firearm. I also know that statistically I am in more danger from those around me than I am from any random shooter.
A random shooter could pic me off before I am even aware enough to pull out my firearm. I also know that statistically I am in more danger from those around me than I am from any random shooter.
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
BTS wrote: But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police
officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely
to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire,.
Not to go too far off topic, but this is actually a myth. There was much, much more violence in schools in the 70's and 80's but not nearly as much covereage of it on the news. Check the statistics.
Many people today think that teenagers are much more aggressive and violent than their peers of the past. I work with them and that is flat out untrue. They are more responsible, fair, informed, and civic-minded than my generation ever was. They just get a bad rap in the press.
Oh...and I'm a sheepdog. I take care of the flock.
officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely
to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire,.
Not to go too far off topic, but this is actually a myth. There was much, much more violence in schools in the 70's and 80's but not nearly as much covereage of it on the news. Check the statistics.
Many people today think that teenagers are much more aggressive and violent than their peers of the past. I work with them and that is flat out untrue. They are more responsible, fair, informed, and civic-minded than my generation ever was. They just get a bad rap in the press.
Oh...and I'm a sheepdog. I take care of the flock.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS Which R U?
Jives wrote:
Many people today think that teenagers are much more aggressive and violent than their peers of the past. I work with them and that is flat out untrue. They are more responsible, fair, informed, and civic-minded than my generation ever was. They just get a bad rap in the press.
Oh...and I'm a sheepdog. I take care of the flock.Wow, Jives! I was so uplifted to read this. So often you hear what is wrong with today's youth, but I love knowing that a teacher has such a respectful opinion of today's youth. i can tell that you really care about your students from your posts.
Many people today think that teenagers are much more aggressive and violent than their peers of the past. I work with them and that is flat out untrue. They are more responsible, fair, informed, and civic-minded than my generation ever was. They just get a bad rap in the press.
Oh...and I'm a sheepdog. I take care of the flock.Wow, Jives! I was so uplifted to read this. So often you hear what is wrong with today's youth, but I love knowing that a teacher has such a respectful opinion of today's youth. i can tell that you really care about your students from your posts.