I see that novelty is doing some kind of astrology thing, and although its nonsense I want something done for us Saggitarians as of course we are the greatest of all the star signs, also, if you are going to do the Chinese version I am a metal pig, as I recently found out, and I want some astro-mological stuff on that as well.
Yours, Concerned.
Galbally,
Location, The Internet somewhere.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Novelty;491982 wrote: You think it's OK to insult me?
i have beliefs and you think it's OK to say it's nonsense?
what is nonsense? please explain the nonsense.....
Oh I didn't mean to insult you, I was just being lighthearted. But if you want to know why "I" think its nonsense is that I don't believe that the 2-D position of the stars, (which are in actuality positioned in 4-D space-time and are trillions upon trillions of kilometers away from us, and exert no appreciable gravitational pull, their emissions of neutrino's and other EM-radiation is negligible unless you put them all together, and this immeadiatly destroys the idea that somehow their position as individuals has some impact upon the fate of humans (by what mechanism if not a magic one? and I don't believe in magic).
Even their light (which is of course in the form of photons racing at us at the speed of light), is only observable as a tiny pinprick of light in a dark sky. Coupled to the fact that the 3,000 or so observable stars are only a fraction of a fraction of the actual stars in our galaxy which is roughly 400,000,000,000,000 at last count (not to mention the other galaxies), and that the 5 planets that astrology is also based on is actually 9 planets, (no sorry now its 8 planets, and lots of planetoids), (how come astrologers always change their astrology every time a new extra-terrestrial body or force is discovered?) and that the actual influence that any of these planets could have on us is very, very small (I'm talking about gravity), as opposed to the Sun and the Moon, then I don't see what rational basis such ideas are based on in any way. You are of course completely welcome to your beliefs, but I do not share them, and still think they are nonsense. To be fair to me, I also think that almost all religious and supernatural beliefs are equal nonsense, so you are probably not alone in being offended. Sorry about that.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Novelty;492016 wrote: It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not the facts are that they Do influence our lives and have done ever since recorded history, so you can live in you own spectrum and believe in WHAT?
You say that the fact is that these things influence our lives, really? I thought that for something to be considered a "fact" you required at least some kind of hard physical evidence, so do you have any, because I am sure that the scientific community would be very intrigued if you did. Otherwise, its just what you choose to believe in for you own reasons, and good luck to you, but aside from that scientifically, sorry, but its nonsense, so get over it.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Pinky;492025 wrote: I'm a wood rabbit...says a lot for me, doesn't it?:wah:
Oh, I must find out if we are compatible, metal pigs and wood rabbits, what kindof offspring would we produce I wonder? Its the year of the pig in 2007 you know?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
"Scorpios are the most intense, profound, powerful characters in the zodiac. Even when they appear self-controlled and calm there is a seething intensity of emotional energy under the placid exterior. They are like the volcano not far under the surface of a calm sea, it may burst into eruption at any moment. But those of us who are particularly perceptive will be aware of the harnessed aggression, the immense forcefulness, magnetic intensity, and often strangely hypnotic personality under the tranquil, but watchful composure of Scorpio. In conventional social gatherings they are pleasant to be with, thoughtful in conversation, dignified, and reserved, yet affable and courteous; they sometimes possess penetrating eyes which make their shyer companions feel naked and defenseless before them."
Yeah all that and you can squash them with a boot.:wah:
Galbally;492019 wrote: You say that the fact is that these things influence our lives, really? I thought that for something to be considered a "fact" you required at least some kind of hard physical evidence, so do you have any, because I am sure that the scientific community would be very intrigued if you did. Otherwise, its just what you choose to believe in for you own reasons, and good luck to you, but aside from that scientifically, sorry, but its nonsense, so get over it.
The request for proof is rather selfish.
Most people who say that their spiritual beliefs are fact say so because they have acquired the proof they needed. In some cases you may find that proof laughable but it does not change what that person experienced. It is rather like someone telling you they feel hurt and you saying "you're not hurt, you're just crying out for attention." Or someone saying they are happy and you saying that they aren't happy they are delusional. I see it hard to justify telling someone what they feel. Whether you think they should be feeling that emotion or not is irrelevant the fact is that they do actually have a feeling that you do not currently understand.
If you really wanted proof of the spiritual world then you would seek it until you found it for yourself. No one else can hand you that understanding. It is experiential not mental knowledge that you are demanding.
"Scorpios are the most intense, profound, powerful characters in the zodiac. Even when they appear self-controlled and calm there is a seething intensity of emotional energy under the placid exterior. They are like the volcano not far under the surface of a calm sea, it may burst into eruption at any moment. But those of us who are particularly perceptive will be aware of the harnessed aggression, the immense forcefulness, magnetic intensity, and often strangely hypnotic personality under the tranquil, but watchful composure of Scorpio. In conventional social gatherings they are pleasant to be with, thoughtful in conversation, dignified, and reserved, yet affable and courteous; they sometimes possess penetrating eyes which make their shyer companions feel naked and defenseless before them."
Or in the immortal words of the movie Starship troopers "They are all just bugs":wah:
Tests have been performed on a fairly large scale as far as correlating astrological signs with personal characteristics, one of which is discussed on http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005 ... u_mea.html summarising an experiment performed by Shawn Carlson. His paper, “A Double-blind Test of Astrology, was published in the prestigious peer reviewed scientific journal Nature, in 1985.Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable suggestion made by advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.
I suggest also that statistical analyses over a wide range of events show no overall correlation with lunar phases, as discussed on http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html
Given that degree of testing in each area, it would be interesting to see counter-evidence that correlations can in fact be demonstrated between lunar phases or astrology and any area of life. Producing a bit of literature rather than opinion would give us something to bite on here.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
So what star sign are you, yzgi?
I am of the mighty Bull family. Us bulls still have our balls. Which is why we are stubborn. All the farmers after us to cut em off.
A nice intro paragraph from an astrology site that struck my current fancy:
Basically, science’s rejection of astrology is based on ignorance. Science’s ignorance. When the astronomer Edmond Halley asked Sir Isaac Newton (essentially the “patron science of physics) how he could possibly believe in astrology, Sir Isaac answered, “Because I have studied the matter, Sir. You have not. And therein lies the crux of the matter. When Shakespeare made the comment of the “stars influencing our lives, he too was mis- or un-informed. Astrology is about the planets of our solar system, not the stars!
Not being a fan of astrology myself, I am not prepared to discuss the fineries of what they believe. There are certainly some notions that go well beyond what I am prepared to accept. I do, however, believe that the planets in their orbits affect more than just the ocean tides.
Pinky;492490 wrote: I'm still a taurus with a gemini ascendant and an Aries moon...do I get a prize?
So you are three people in one. cool. Which one are we talking too now?
koan;492230 wrote: The request for proof is rather selfish.
Most people who say that their spiritual beliefs are fact say so because they have acquired the proof they needed. In some cases you may find that proof laughable but it does not change what that person experienced. It is rather like someone telling you they feel hurt and you saying "you're not hurt, you're just crying out for attention." Or someone saying they are happy and you saying that they aren't happy they are delusional. I see it hard to justify telling someone what they feel. Whether you think they should be feeling that emotion or not is irrelevant the fact is that they do actually have a feeling that you do not currently understand.
If you really wanted proof of the spiritual world then you would seek it until you found it for yourself. No one else can hand you that understanding. It is experiential not mental knowledge that you are demanding.
Koan, all I said was "I" thought it was nonsense, astrology, (as an aside, it was Novelty who got all annoyed so I just expanded why I held that view). I didn't say novelty was an idiot or that being spiritual was wrong, I just gave my honest opinion on astrology, and I think its a fair opinion, when you actually look at the evidence. What people want to believe I have no problem with, but I am not going to just say that oh yes, its all perfectly valid, like Newton, because it isn't and thats just a fact. Its superstition, and if you are into that its fine, but its not science and there is no evidence for it whatsoever and I will debate that with any astrologer anywhere in the world, whenever.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
koan;492425 wrote: A nice intro paragraph from an astrology site that struck my current fancy:
Basically, science’s rejection of astrology is based on ignorance. Science’s ignorance. When the astronomer Edmond Halley asked Sir Isaac Newton (essentially the “patron science of physics”) how he could possibly believe in astrology, Sir Isaac answered, “Because I have studied the matter, Sir. You have not.” And therein lies the crux of the matter. When Shakespeare made the comment of the “stars influencing our lives”, he too was mis- or un-informed. Astrology is about the planets of our solar system, not the stars!
Not being a fan of astrology myself, I am not prepared to discuss the fineries of what they believe. There are certainly some notions that go well beyond what I am prepared to accept. I do, however, believe that the planets in their orbits affect more than just the ocean tides.
The statement that science rejects astrology out of ignorance is ridiculous, science has been the discipline that has mapped and studied the heavens since the first proper charts of Copernicus in the 15th century. Its the astrologers who just make it up and add bits of mythology from Greece and Asia-minor etc with Greek astronomy, then they throw in some bits and pieces of Egyptian mythology etc and try to make it all seem like its some kind of forgotten lore, again, I'm sorry but as a scientific type person, I have to say that scientists don't try and make money out of extraordinary claims about the ability to predict ones fate through the workings of stars and planets that may look the same in the night, but are completely different and unrelated objects.
E.G. One of the "stars" in Orion's Belt is actually M31 or the Andromeda Galaxy (discovered by a Frenchman in the 18th century I think), which is in reality actually the light from 400,000,000,000,000 stars that are 2,000,000,000 light years away from any other stars in that particular constellation, yet Orion is a major part of astrology, how is all of this supposed to work if not by magic? You tell me because I don't have the faintest idea ow it could, and I am certainly not going to try and fool you by coming up with the usual convenient, trite, and always mythological answers to such questions.
There is far too much of this ineffable pseudo science nowadays and they are making their arguments sophisticated in a way to sound comparable to actual science, which it isn't because like religious ideas such as "creationism" its all based on magic, and if you believe in that fine, if you don't then you don't need me to point out how annoying it is.
Sorry, but this stuff annoys me and I don't like letting it go. People have a right to get an honest opinion on this I think, there is far too much beating around the bush on it all.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Sagitarians are the best, we shall be benevolent rulers though, you will all be allowed to party all the time, and you may all do your own "other" star-sign type things. We are gracious and good leaders and one day you will understand!
:wah: :-6
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Pinky;492531 wrote: Stars have always been referred to in mattrers of fate or detiny ...' My inauspicious stars' as Romeo says in his soliloquy refer to the hand fate has given him. That doesn't provide proof that stars have a hand in our fate, merrely that we turn ithe whole astrological thging into a metaphor to explain certain happenings. The hubris that occurs later in the play may provide evidence either for or against fate, but I won't go into that now.
Some people take it that their fate is already laid, others that they can change their stars...both are true.
I always liked the quote from Julius Ceasar, "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but in ourselves", never a truer word was spoken either! I am not here to knock anyones intrinsic beliefs in anything, (thats not my right, or want) though I am going usually to give a skeptical and scientific brief to all these questions, because thats instinctively how I think, as much as someone else would use intuition, sense, empathy, and belief, they are all valid things, but its not how I see such questions.
Sagitarians still no 1 though!
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
i dont need to get over anything thank you very much..
I've nothing to prove..
It was not my intention to annoy you, I was just expanding on why I personally believe that astrology is basically very entertaining nonsense, I am not attacking you personally, and what you wish to believe is entirely your own matter, it is astrology that I was on about not you. You do not have anything to prove to me.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
