Hussein's Dead.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:38 am

Iraq executes Saddam Hussein by hanging

By Molly Hennessy-Fiske and Solomon Moore, Times Staff Writers

7:24 PM PST, December 29, 2006

A defiant Saddam Hussein was hanged at dawn Saturday in a secret concrete death chamber here as the Muslim call to prayer echoed over the capital.

Hussein and 14 Iraqi government representatives were flown by helicopter to the site, according to Iraqi High Tribunal Judge Munir Haddad. Guards escorted Hussein into the room, where he denounced the West and Iran.

Hussein then climbed the high ladder to the gallows.

As his executioners placed a noose around his neck, Hussein blanched but betrayed no emotion, Haddad said.

Hussein refused to wear a hood.

The charged silence that settled over the execution chamber was suddenly shattered by four guards, all apparent followers of militant Shiite cleric Muqtada Sadr — a man whose ruthless ambition and dark charisma rivals Hussein's, many Iraqis say.

"Muqtada Sadr!" they cried out triumphantly. "Muqtada Sadr!"

Hussein scoffed.

"The last word he said was 'Muqtada,'" said Haddad, who described Hussein's tone as condescendingly sarcastic. "And then he was hanged."

No cleric was provided. But as Hussein's life ebbed away, Haddad said he heard voices uttering a Muslim prayer often used by Shiite congregations to express gratitude: "May Allah bless Muhammad and his descendants."

The deposed Iraqi president had been convicted of crimes against humanity Nov. 5 for the killings of 148 men and boys from the town of Dujayl after a 1982 assassination attempt — a comparative handful among the tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths for which he was responsible during his nearly four-decade rule.

His execution officially ends a bloody chapter in this nation's history but is not expected to quell the sectarian civil war and violent insurgency that have wracked the country since his overthrow by an American-led invasion in 2003.

As news of the execution spread, some Iraqis here celebrated with the customary gunfire into the air, and television channels broadcast Hussein retrospectives complete with film of his many victims.

The hanging was photographed and videotaped, in part to provide proof in this rumor-driven society that the former dictator was truly dead, Iraqi TV also reported. But such documentation was not immediately made public.

The deposed Iraqi president's death warrant was signed Friday by the nation's two vice presidents, and execution witnesses gathered in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone, according to an Iraqi official with knowledge of the proceedings. The hanging took place in an intelligence facility in northwest Baghdad.

U.S. officials said Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki met with Cabinet officials and other politicians throughout Friday to plan the execution. Security was Iraqi leaders' main concern. Most officials expect Hussein's death to be followed by a rash of insurgent attacks as former Baathists retaliate against the Shiite-led government.

The government also sorted through execution procedural requirements Friday, including the timing of the execution and the assembly of the gallows.

U.S. military officials handed Hussein over to Iraqi officials around 8 p.m. Friday Baghdad time, according to one of Hussein's defense attorneys.

Hussein's execution seemed to be much less than the historic turning point many people in Iraq and the United States once thought it would be.

With Iraq mired in violence, the former dictator's demise no longer appeared to signal the beginning of new order. Instead, it seemed another reminder of the country's divisions.

And though Iraq has seen some positive developments, such as national elections, many Americans remain unconvinced that things in Iraq have fundamentally changed for the better.

President Bush said in a written statement that Hussein had been executed after receiving a fair trial, "the kind of justice he denied the victims of his brutal regime."

"Fair trials were unimaginable under Saddam Hussein's tyrannical rule. It is a testament to the Iraqi people's resolve to move forward after decades of oppression that, despite his terrible crimes against his own people, Saddam Hussein received a fair trial," Bush said in the statement issued in Crawford, Texas, where the president is taking a winter vacation at his ranch.

The execution "will not end the violence in Iraq," he said, "but it is an important milestone" in Iraq's effort to become a self-sustaining democracy and U.S. ally in fighting terrorism.

Deputy White House Press Secretary Scott Stanzel said Stephen J. Hadley, Bush's national security advisor, briefed the president about 6:15 p.m. CST about the imminent execution.

Stanzel said Hadley told the president that Maliki had informed Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, that the execution would take place within several hours. He added that Bush went to bed before the execution, around 9 p.m. CST, and was not awakened after it was carried out.

Maliki legal advisor Mariam Rayis said Hussein's death warrant was signed by Vice Presidents Tariq Hashimi, a Sunni Arab, and Adel Abdul Mehdi, a Shiite. President Jalal Talabani, a Kurdish death penalty opponent, was out of Baghdad on Friday and delegated his capital authority to Mehdi, Rayis said.

The gallows was set up by midnight Baghdad time, Rayis said, and Hussein was led to the scaffold dressed in normal clothes.

Defense lawyer Najib Nuaimi said U.S. military officials asked him Friday morning to send someone to pick up Hussein's personal effects, such as clothing, books — including a Koran — and a manuscript Hussein had been writing.

"He was writing his biography," Nuaimi said. "But I don't think he had a chance to complete it."

Among the witnesses at Hussein's hanging were a representative from the Interior Ministry, Iraqi High Tribunal Judge Munir Haddad, chief prosecutor Munqith Faroon, a physician, and a cleric who read from the Koran, Rayis said. Mowaffak Rubaie, Iraq's national security advisor, also attended.

Survivors from Dujayl did not attend, Rayis said.

Ali Hassan Mohammed Haidari, the first witness to take the stand against Hussein in the Dujayl case, wanted to see the execution but decided he didn't want to risk the dangerous drive to Baghdad, 60 miles away.

He said the execution made his family "very happy" but would not quell suffering. "You can imagine a mother who has lost seven children cannot avoid shedding tears even in the midst of this happy moment," he said.

Other Dujayl victims said their relief over Hussein's death was dampened by the fact that they had not witnessed their tormentor's final moments.

"I have been waiting for the last 40 years for such a moment," said Dujayl Mayor Mohammed Zubaidi, whose father and brother were killed in jail by Hussein's regime. "I was always hoping that this execution would take place inside the town of Dujayl because this is where the case happened."

Hussein's wife, who is in Qatar, and a daughter in Jordan could not attend the execution because they are both fugitives from Iraqi justice, Rayis said, and Hussein's lawyers were barred from attending.

Hussein defense attorney Bushra Khalil said that Raghad Ali, Hussein's eldest daughter, wanted her father to be buried in Yemen "until Iraq is free of the occupiers."

Hussein's family is "depressed," Khalil said.

Khalil said Hussein had told her that he refused sedatives offered by Americans to calm his nerves and he had been resigned to his fate.

"We asked him if he would like us to communicate anything to the leaders of the Arab world," she continued. "He said no. His only request would be to Allah."

Khalil warned that Hussein's death would have violent consequences for Iraq.

Hussein's lawyers sought a temporary restraining order Friday at an appellate court in Washington, D.C., to force the U.S. military to retain custody of Hussein. Hours before Hussein's death, the court refused to intervene.

Hussein's execution coincided with the end of the hajj, the seasonal Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca. Most Sunnis began Eid al-Adha, the Feast of Sacrifice, at midnight Friday; most Shiites will begin 24 hours later.

Nuaimi said that Maliki, a Shiite, had pushed for Hussein's execution during the holiday to "make a gift during Eid to his party."

Hussein "will be the sacrificial lamb for the Shiites, and the Iranians in particular," said Nuaimi, referring to many Muslims' practice of slaughtering lambs after pilgrimage for celebratory feasts.

U.S. officials expressed concern that news of the execution's imminence, which began circulating Thursday, might have given insurgents time to plan attacks. U.S. military officials said they had beefed up security in Baghdad in advance of the execution and to ward off possible retaliatory violence. Iraqi and U.S. officials said the government would probably extend Friday's curfew indefinitely.

Hussein's family wants to bury him in his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq but are afraid the government will cremate him and scatter the ashes, Nuaimi said.

Rayis said Hussein's body was to be wrapped in a white sheet for burial and would be buried by Iraq's Directorate of Social Welfare if it not claimed by a family member.

His execution ended other legal proceedings against Hussein, including his genocide trial involving the Anfal military campaign. That operation left tens of thousands of Kurds dead by gunfire, bombings and poison gas.

solomon.moore@latimes.com

molly.hennessy-fiske@latimes.com

Times staff writers Alexandra Zavis and Saif Hameed in Baghdad, Paul Richter in Washington and James Gerstenzang in Crawford, Texas, contributed to this report.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:26 am

Well, it happened as most people thought it would, and of course Saddam remained defiant to the end, he had made his choices years ago, and he wasn't about to repent in front of his enemies. Like I said earlier, I don't really take pleasure in the death of someone, but in Saddam's case, he had most certainly earned his fate. Was it worth it? For us, no. Will Iraq get any better, not in the foreseeable future. Its not really the end of an Era I think, because Iraq is still suffering because of Saddam's foolish decisions and the enemies he made for his country. That chapter is going to be a long one.

Imladris · Post by **Imladris** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:45 am

I can never rejoice in the loss of life however it may be 'justified'. My gut feeling is that this will just be the first in another round of bloodshed - how can that be good.

caesar777 · Post by **caesar777** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:31 am

To kill people is wrong, that is why Saddam was killed. What hypocrasy!

Do as I say, not as I do.

Saddam should have spent the rest of his natural life incarcerated, a miserable existance. Now his suffereing is over.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:40 am

What suffering? You think he cared while on earth what he did? Nah.

Some of us believe his suffering has just begun.

I"m not *happy* that he's dead. No rejoicing. I'm saddened that he could have done something for humanity and instead he used his pathetic life to destroy it.

Show all the footage they can. I have no problem with it. It's their job to do.

caesar777 · Post by **caesar777** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:46 am

RedGlitter;500461 wrote: What suffering? You think he cared while on earth what he did? Nah.

Some of us believe his suffering has just begun.

I"m not *happy* that he's dead. No rejoicing. I'm saddened that he could have done something for humanity and instead he used his pathetic life to destroy it.

Show all the footage they can. I have no problem with it. It's their job to do.

The suffering of seeing his stark existance when he once knew luxury.

The suffering of being overthrown by the hated westerners.

If you are right and his suffering has just begun, shouldn't we have waited for "god" to call him to justice?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:48 am

caesar777;500462 wrote: The suffering of seeing his stark existance when he once knew luxury.

The suffering of being overthrown by the hated westerners.

If you are right and his suffering has just begun, shouldn't we have waited for "god" to call him to justice?

I don't believe so, no.

caesar777 · Post by **caesar777** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:56 am

RedGlitter;500465 wrote: I don't believe so, no.

As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye will make the world blind."

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:02 am

I think the reality is that we are sliding into an age of conflict and turmoil, and the return to a harsher sort of cultural ethos in the Western media is just reflecting the reality of the fear and worry in people's minds. Its a disturbing reality, but we don't get to choose the times we live in unfortunately, and I think things are going to get a lot tougher before they get better. So, helmets on.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:19 am

caesar777;500468 wrote: As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye will make the world blind."

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I appreciate your viewpoint, but I am one of the eye for an eye people. No need to argue that though- I've done enough of that in the death penalty thread.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:24 am

Galbally;500425 wrote: Well, it happened as most people thought it would, and of course Saddam remained defiant to the end, he had made his choices years ago, and he wasn't about to repent in front of his enemies. Like I said earlier, I don't really take pleasure in the death of someone, but in Saddam's case, he had most certainly earned his fate. Was it worth it? For us, no. Will Iraq get any better, not in the foreseeable future. Its not really the end of an Era I think, because Iraq is still suffering because of Saddam's foolish decisions and the enemies he made for his country. That chapter is going to be a long one.

I would much rather try and change the world over there than to just ignore it becuase it appears to be a difficult road to travel on...

I don't support the death penalty as a means of punishment,...but from Suddams destruction, at least step one is out of the way.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:25 am

caesar777;500462 wrote: The suffering of seeing his stark existance when he once knew luxury.

The suffering of being overthrown by the hated westerners.

If you are right and his suffering has just begun, shouldn't we have waited for "god" to call him to justice?

That's fine...

If you don't mind peoples heads being hacked off, and torturing up on to that point.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:41 am

Novelty;500464 wrote: Well why dont you video it, and go out and get some popcorn, go show it to the kids, the imagery is sick and not necessary...

Why don't you chill out. Did I say it was entertainment?

Hugh Janus · Post by **Hugh Janus** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:47 am

Sing to tune of "Singing in the rain"...

Swinging in Iraq

He's swinging in Iraq.

Just swinging in Iraq.

Saddam's been hung, so he's not coming back.

The whole human race.

Has a smile on its face.

'Cos Saddam is swinging in Iraq

All the armies he led.

Have all suddenly fled.

There's none to be found, now that Saddam is dead.

He appealed against the rope.

But the judges said "nope"

So saddam is swinging in Iraq :yh_sick

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:33 am

Galbally;500425 wrote: Well, it happened as most people thought it would, and of course Saddam remained defiant to the end, he had made his choices years ago, and he wasn't about to repent in front of his enemies. Like I said earlier, I don't really take pleasure in the death of someone, but in Saddam's case, he had most certainly earned his fate. Was it worth it? For us, no. Will Iraq get any better, not in the foreseeable future. Its not really the end of an Era I think, because Iraq is still suffering because of Saddam's foolish decisions and the enemies he made for his country. That chapter is going to be a long one.

In the end he was his own worst enemy.

Shweet tatersalad · Post by **Shweet tatersalad** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:50 am

I am not against death if the situation calls for it.But i think in this case he should have been put in room with no windows too live out his days slowly going insane and let his own evil eat him from the inside out.

I think death was too kind in this case,easy way way too let him off.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:45 pm

Justice be damned. Punishment be damned. Had he been allowed to live, there would always be the chance, however slim, that zealots would break him out. He was a very charismatic figure. It simply wasn't worh the risk to allow him to live.

Ready for the silly what-ifs.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:39 pm

Yup. He now gets 72 vestal virgins and blah blah.....

Let's lighten up on Hitler and Stalin too while we're at it, eh?

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:53 am

So it's being televised on the BBC - no one forces us to watch . The guy got what he deserved . Justice was done . My sorrow is for the victims and their family's - may they rest in peace .

BTW i do agree with the death penalty and i sleep very well at night .

sallahudin · Post by **sallahudin** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:07 am

I think it is sick of these so called humans ( i would differ with that )to call this killing justifiable. this murderess act is a long line of killing muslims for the sake of getting them to toe the line of westernised pathetic principals. I was never a fan of Saddam or what he represented. To hang him on one of the most most revered days in islamic calendar was a slap on the face of muslims effectively telling them we can o what we like with you and there is nothing you can do about it. Beware of people with backs to the wall. This murder could have been carried out at another date away from our holy day then no one had bothered about it.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:14 am

Hello. I see you are new here. Welcome to FG. I am not familiar with your holy day although I know it has started. Would you explain a little about what this time means to Muslims? I don't believe for a second that any slap was intended.

May I ask how you can say Hussein's demise was unjustifiable in light of all the humans he slaughtered and tortured? I am having trouble understanding that part.

sallahudin · Post by **sallahudin** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:55 am

Thanks for noticing i am new to this form. I am astonished with your comment to what is holy about this day. For your info sat 31st dec 2006 was the day of EID celebrations which we perform on the 10th day of cycle of islamic calender month. Every one knew exactly when it was. This murder it seems was planned to dampen the spirit that EID day. To say that it was not a slap on the face of muslims is unjustifiable loss of human dignity. Please wake up to the fact that if something is appalling if it happens to you then it must be same for others even if they are the "barberic" muslims.

I dont you need to go into the justified or not category. According to American reports more than 650,000 Iraqis have died since their so called "liberation". In todays report the American casualties have grown to 3000. What a waste of young peoples lives just to appease a hunger for animosity towards another religion.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:09 am

sallahudin;501938 wrote: Thanks for noticing i am new to this form. I am astonished with your comment to what is holy about this day. For your info sat 31st dec 2006 was the day of EID celebrations which we perform on the 10th day of cycle of islamic calender month. Every one knew exactly when it was. This murder it seems was planned to dampen the spirit that EID day. To say that it was not a slap on the face of muslims is unjustifiable loss of human dignity. Please wake up to the fact that if something is appalling if it happens to you then it must be same for others even if they are the "barberic" muslims.

I dont you need to go into the justified or not category. According to American reports more than 650,000 Iraqis have died since their so called "liberation". In todays report the American casualties have grown to 3000. What a waste of young peoples lives just to appease a hunger for animosity towards another religion.

You're very wrong.

sallahudin · Post by **sallahudin** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:31 am

"you are wrong"

What does that mean. Am i wrong in stating that the policeman of this earth or should i say the sole superpower is unjustified in doing what and when it feels like it and no one can differ. If the American gov is so bent on teaching fairness and justice then it should start from itself. What better way it would be for U.S to lead in this respect and treat everyone with equality. You cannot beat some one to love you it come with respect and dignity for other person. On 9/11 vast majority of muslims were appalled by that act and it was hailed that they were right, today vast majority of muslims are appalled with the timing of this murder then they are termed to be wrong. Please look deeply into what i am talking about. All people in the eyes of god were born equal until they were put into categories.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:48 am

sallahudin;501919 wrote: I think it is sick of these so called humans ( i would differ with that )to call this killing justifiable. this murderess act is a long line of killing muslims for the sake of getting them to toe the line of westernised pathetic principals. I was never a fan of Saddam or what he represented. To hang him on one of the most most revered days in islamic calendar was a slap on the face of muslims effectively telling them we can o what we like with you and there is nothing you can do about it. Beware of people with backs to the wall. This murder could have been carried out at another date away from our holy day then no one had bothered about it.
How far away? :yh_eyebro

Admit it. There would have never been a time suitable for you, so what difference does it make? If it wasn't on the holiday it wasn't on the holiday. Executing him ON that day might have been an insult.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:57 am

sallahudin;501938 wrote: Thanks for noticing i am new to this form. I am astonished with your comment to what is holy about this day. For your info sat 31st dec 2006 was the day of EID celebrations which we perform on the 10th day of cycle of islamic calender month. Every one knew exactly when it was. This murder it seems was planned to dampen the spirit that EID day. To say that it was not a slap on the face of muslims is unjustifiable loss of human dignity. Please wake up to the fact that if something is appalling if it happens to you then it must be same for others even if they are the "barberic" muslims.

I dont you need to go into the justified or not category. According to American reports more than 650,000 Iraqis have died since their so called "liberation". In todays report the American casualties have grown to 3000. What a waste of young peoples lives just to appease a hunger for animosity towards another religion.

Hi again. My comment wasn't meant to astonish you, it was a sincere question. I am not familiar with Muslim holy days and so I asked for an explanation. I am not trying to denigrate your holy time. What I meant was that contrary to what some other countries would allow, I don't believe that Americans personally decided Hussein would be executed during this particular time, in order to spite Muslims.

About something being appalling to me as well as to Muslims, I find the torture and slaughter of humans by Hussein over a 30 year period and the lack of freedom for same to be very appalling indeed. I would hope it would be for Muslims as well...?

Please don't think that Americans are happy about being in Iraq or cavalier about how many dead there are- of both Iraqui and American humans. Although it does to me seem like a waste of our American lives, we think enough of Iraqui lives to sacrifice the lives of our own for the sake of yours.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:15 am

sallahudin;501956 wrote: "you are wrong"

What does that mean. Am i wrong in stating that the policeman of this earth or should i say the sole superpower is unjustified in doing what and when it feels like it and no one can differ. If the American gov is so bent on teaching fairness and justice then it should start from itself. What better way it would be for U.S to lead in this respect and treat everyone with equality. You cannot beat some one to love you it come with respect and dignity for other person. On 9/11 vast majority of muslims were appalled by that act and it was hailed that they were right, today vast majority of muslims are appalled with the timing of this murder then they are termed to be wrong. Please look deeply into what i am talking about. All people in the eyes of god were born equal until they were put into categories.

Now you're right.

Heads up here. Most of us/Americans only get to vote. After they're elected we dont get much input. At least my congressman never calls wanting to know what I think about how they're doing. We/I/Americans dont care if you're Muslim or Hare Krishna. At the risk of over simplifying a complex situation, in a nutshell when guys hijack then fly planes into bldgs. thats the part that gets us a little fidgety. They did it screaming in the name of Allah. To make a statement like our intent in quashing terrorism is religiously motivated is absurd. Is that what you really think ?

If it is I would ask you to give it another thought. If you cant theres a good chance you have been brainwashed.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:38 am

sallahudin;501919 wrote: I think it is sick of these so called humans ( i would differ with that )to call this killing justifiable. this murderess act is a long line of killing muslims for the sake of getting them to toe the line of westernised pathetic principals. I was never a fan of Saddam or what he represented. To hang him on one of the most most revered days in islamic calendar was a slap on the face of muslims effectively telling them we can o what we like with you and there is nothing you can do about it. Beware of people with backs to the wall. This murder could have been carried out at another date away from our holy day then no one had bothered about it.

I can understand being against the death penalty,..but to say you condemn such polocy against a cold blooded, unconsciences dictator just because he is muslim and the timeing of the trial(Whom was tried by his own government I might add, which is muslim - correct?) itself being coincidental to that of a "holy day", is rather a waste of time and energy don't you think?

sallahudin · Post by **sallahudin** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:58 pm

reading replies from the people in this forum it smacks of hippocracy created to justify a fear in in the westernized nations citizens. The American public will never understand how it feels to be kicked to the ground through out your life and then blamed for anything and everything that goes wrong in this god forsaken earth.

We have gone far in understanding how to live in peace with each other, but there are designs by some governments to tell others how they should breath. Am i "brainwashed". You should ask the same question yourself. Open your mind to another view it might be the more logical.

I have never justified Saddam's torture of his own civilians. If you come out of your cocoon you will find that Saddam was installed by the American gov, fed huge amount of arsenal by the same, told to invade Kuwait so that he can be cut to size and not come in the way of your gov designs.

As for the Iraqi gov trying him and executing him is beyond a reply. People in power who have been installed there against the wishes of the people get frightened of even a shadow and dont tell me that it was the decision of only the Iraqi gov it was ordered by the Americans to do what they did. Take the example of millocivic a brutal dictator in the league of Saddam or may be worse was not handed over to the muslims to be tried but he was tried in the international court of Hague. Was it because he was a christian. It certainly looks that way, if you are going to set a precidence than you should set an example and stick to that. That butcher of muslims did not get the justice that is being hammered into us all the time.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:23 am

sallahudin;502993 wrote: The American public will never understand how it feels to be kicked to the ground through out your life and then blamed for anything and everything that goes wrong in this god forsaken earth.

Oh. Yes. Yes we would.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:24 am

sallahudin;502993 wrote: reading replies from the people in this forum it smacks of hippocracy created to justify a fear in in the westernized nations citizens. The American public will never understand how it feels to be kicked to the ground through out your life and then blamed for anything and everything that goes wrong in this god forsaken earth.

We have gone far in understanding how to live in peace with each other, but there are designs by some governments to tell others how they should breath. Am i "brainwashed". You should ask the same question yourself. Open your mind to another view it might be the more logical.

I have never justified Saddam's torture of his own civilians. If you come out of your cocoon you will find that Saddam was installed by the American gov, fed huge amount of arsenal by the same, told to invade Kuwait so that he can be cut to size and not come in the way of your gov designs.

As for the Iraqi gov trying him and executing him is beyond a reply. People in power who have been installed there against the wishes of the people get frightened of even a shadow and dont tell me that it was the decision of only the Iraqi gov it was ordered by the Americans to do what they did. Take the example of millocivic a brutal dictator in the league of Saddam or may be worse was not handed over to the muslims to be tried but he was tried in the international court of Hague. Was it because he was a christian. It certainly looks that way, if you are going to set a precidence than you should set an example and stick to that. That butcher of muslims did not get the justice that is being hammered into us all the time.
You're American, born and bred, aren't you?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:47 am

I can think of two "world leaders" that ought to be given the same treatment -

give me a few more nanoseconds to think, and I could probably come up with a

few more!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:03 am

sallahudin;502993 wrote: reading replies from the people in this forum it smacks of hippocracy created to justify a fear in in the westernized nations citizens. The American public will never understand how it feels to be kicked to the ground through out your life and then blamed for anything and everything that goes wrong in this god forsaken earth.

We have gone far in understanding how to live in peace with each other, but there are designs by some governments to tell others how they should breath. Am i "brainwashed". You should ask the same question yourself. Open your mind to another view it might be the more logical.

I have never justified Saddam's torture of his own civilians. If you come out of your cocoon you will find that Saddam was installed by the American gov, fed huge amount of arsenal by the same, told to invade Kuwait so that he can be cut to size and not come in the way of your gov designs.

As for the Iraqi gov trying him and executing him is beyond a reply. People in power who have been installed there against the wishes of the people get frightened of even a shadow and dont tell me that it was the decision of only the Iraqi gov it was ordered by the Americans to do what they did. Take the example of millocivic a brutal dictator in the league of Saddam or may be worse was not handed over to the muslims to be tried but he was tried in the international court of Hague. Was it because he was a christian. It certainly looks that way, if you are going to set a precidence than you should set an example and stick to that. That butcher of muslims did not get the justice that is being hammered into us all the time.

Oh, I get it...Western civilization is the root of all evil then, eh? :wah:

I have to tell you, if this is evil, I can't wait to get to hell...

Can't believe such an evil place would allow me to have a race car and drive it,..can't believe I get a two day weekend, and sometimes three when I'm allowed to celebrate holidays...

Yeah, this is torture. And for anyone to like to see others have the same freedoms that we have must be the worst of it all...

The tenacity.

sallahudin · Post by **sallahudin** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:55 am

Hey Snider, you can have your freedom if that is so precious to you why force it to other peoples throats. You can have your sports car and drive it the way you want and if you are so keen on going to hell how dare me stopping you.

You need to understand onething that we do not force any one to become a Muslim. On the contrary Islam is the most growing religion in America. Those people must see some thing in it. I must say that the converted Muslims are much better in understanding Islam than us born Muslims.

I am not trying to propagate Islam in this forum,i am marely saying that if i do not want to be westernized then why bother to kill all my friends to make me become like you. This life is very short as it is.

If American forces leave Iraq today peace will return. Let me give you an example, if i forcefully come into your home and occupy it and tell you to do what i say if not i will shoot, kick you in your teeth with rifle butts and rape. What would your reaction be; would you welcome me with open arms, i dont think so. Leave Iraq to Iraqis if they want o have miserable lives thats their choice. Any case who gave you the right to fight for some else's cause. If thay do not have the guts to look after themselves then they are not worth bothering. I would not be having my own sons and daughters killed needlessly.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:35 am

Well first things first,..if you're going to use the word "you" in generalizing against a religion in which you presume I hold the same beliefs in, regardless of their actions, I could just as easily reverse the situation, and I think I'll do so now, in an attempt to let all the generalizing seise...

sallahudin;504289 wrote:

You need to understand onething that we do not force any one to become a Muslim. On the contrary Islam is the most growing religion in America. Those people must see some thing in it. I must say that the converted Muslims are much better in understanding Islam than us born Muslims.

Most "growing", because most societies have already adopted a given religion, and people don't change religions like they do that of sudans. So I'll classify this as irrelevant pertaining to the discussion.

sallahudin;504289 wrote:

If American forces leave Iraq today peace will return. Let me give you an example, if i forcefully come into your home and occupy it and tell you to do what i say if not i will shoot, kick you in your teeth with rifle butts and rape. What would your reaction be; would you welcome me with open arms, i dont think so. Leave Iraq to Iraqis if they want o have miserable lives thats their choice. Any case who gave you the right to fight for some else's cause. If thay do not have the guts to look after themselves then they are not worth bothering. I would not be having my own sons and daughters killed needlessly.

Like I said, generalizing can work both ways, and I don't appreciate having public airlines hijacked, flown into sky rise buildings, and burning people alive, in the name of Allah.

Now that generalizing can be out of the way I'll finish by saying this...

sallahudin;504289 wrote:

I am not trying to propagate Islam in this forum,i am marely saying that if i do not want to be westernized then why bother to kill all my friends to make me become like you. This life is very short as it is.

I haven't killed anyone, nor do I have the passion to, so I am failing to see what that has to do with me.