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Sweet Tooth
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Ok, first of all, how can you speak bad about the American government? Are you even a U.S. citizen? And Second, how many people do you know that are in Iraq, because I think you should sit down with them and listen to whats really going on over there. Don't talk and make up crap until you know all of the facts.
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Sweet Tooth
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So you talk about mainstream media being bias and how we don't think for ourselves, but all you are doing is taking a few videos from youtube- not even a reliable source and posting videos from independent film makers. I would like to see their credentials and I would like to know where they get this "correct" information. I would also like to point out that I do know a lot about what is happening over there. My husband is in the United States Marine Corps and has been deployed twice. He was in charge of running a lot of vehicles and saw a lot of things. He came back only talking about how great of a job we were doing by helping out the Iraqis and that the only ones who don't want us over there are the ones that terrorize their own country. I personally think that because our troops are over there, the bombings here, and in England mind you, have been significantly reduced. Be proud of those people who fight for your right to ramble on such nonsense about big business and so on.
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WonderWendy3
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Sweet Tooth;527451 wrote: So you talk about mainstream media being bias and how we don't think for ourselves, but all you are doing is taking a few videos from youtube- not even a reliable source and posting videos from independent film makers. I would like to see their credentials and I would like to know where they get this "correct" information. I would also like to point out that I do know a lot about what is happening over there. My husband is in the United States Marine Corps and has been deployed twice. He was in charge of running a lot of vehicles and saw a lot of things. He came back only talking about how great of a job we were doing by helping out the Iraqis and that the only ones who don't want us over there are the ones that terrorize their own country. I personally think that because our troops are over there, the bombings here, and in England mind you, have been significantly reduced. Be proud of those people who fight for your right to ramble on such nonsense about big business and so on.
:yh_clap :yh_clap thank you!
:yh_clap :yh_clap thank you!
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Bill Sikes
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Sweet Tooth;527451 wrote: I personally think that because our troops are over there, the bombings here, and in England mind you, have been significantly reduced.
This point entirely separate from The Glory Of Our Troops, etc.: I think it's quite
the opposite - that our troops are "over there" is the cause of the bombings here.
This point entirely separate from The Glory Of Our Troops, etc.: I think it's quite
the opposite - that our troops are "over there" is the cause of the bombings here.
Believe what you like!
Sweet Tooth;527451 wrote: I personally think that because our troops are over there, the bombings here, and in England mind you, have been significantly reduced. Be proud of those people who fight for your right to ramble on such nonsense about big business and so on.You know, if this damnable Coalition invasion of the Middle East had never happened there would have been far fewer deaths in the region, and quite definitely there would have been no bombings in England. You do seem to have cause and effect mixed up. Dealing with bombings in the USA was purely a policing issue until it was turned into a war of aggression by administration opportunists like Rumsfeld.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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DesignerGal
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spot;527971 wrote: You know, if this damnable Coalition invasion of the Middle East had never happened there would have been far fewer deaths in the region, and quite definitely there would have been no bombings in England. You do seem to have cause and effect mixed up. Dealing with bombings in the USA was purely a policing issue until it was turned into a war of aggression by administration opportunists like Rumsfeld.
Be nice.
Be nice.
HBIC
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DesignerGal;528195 wrote: Be nice.
Oh, I am, DG. I'm the very essence of nice. Nobody is nicer.
George McGovern has a paragraph with a similar tone to it in " An Impartial Interrogation of George W. Bush", The Nation, January 17, 2007, in which he says:During the long years between 1963 and 1975 when I fought to end the American war in Vietnam, first as a US Senator from South Dakota and then as my party's nominee for President, my four daughters ganged up on my one night. "Dad, why don't you give up this battle? You've been speaking out against this crazy war since we were little kids. When you won the Democratic presidential nomination, you got snowed under by President Nixon." In reply I said, "Just remember that sometimes in history even a tragic mistake produces something good. The good about Vietnam is that it is such a terrible blunder, we'll never go down that road again." Mr. President, we're going down that road again. So, what do I tell my daughters? And what do you tell your daughters?
The entire article is worth reading, it's at http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070129/mcgovern
Would you like my view on the State of the Nation address as well?
Oh, I am, DG. I'm the very essence of nice. Nobody is nicer.
George McGovern has a paragraph with a similar tone to it in " An Impartial Interrogation of George W. Bush", The Nation, January 17, 2007, in which he says:During the long years between 1963 and 1975 when I fought to end the American war in Vietnam, first as a US Senator from South Dakota and then as my party's nominee for President, my four daughters ganged up on my one night. "Dad, why don't you give up this battle? You've been speaking out against this crazy war since we were little kids. When you won the Democratic presidential nomination, you got snowed under by President Nixon." In reply I said, "Just remember that sometimes in history even a tragic mistake produces something good. The good about Vietnam is that it is such a terrible blunder, we'll never go down that road again." Mr. President, we're going down that road again. So, what do I tell my daughters? And what do you tell your daughters?
The entire article is worth reading, it's at http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070129/mcgovern
Would you like my view on the State of the Nation address as well?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Sweet Tooth
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Originally Posted by spot
You know, if this damnable Coalition invasion of the Middle East had never happened there would have been far fewer deaths in the region, and quite definitely there would have been no bombings in England. You do seem to have cause and effect mixed up. Dealing with bombings in the USA was purely a policing issue until it was turned into a war of aggression by administration opportunists like Rumsfeld.
How do I have cause and effect mixed up? We were bombed by terrorist, therefore, we take action to defend ourselves, and now the war isn't right or just? You guys have got to be kidding me! Since when are we supposed to just sit around and take it? Real American! And I see how proud you guys are of your country too! Everyone thinks it has to do with politics, when really the war has to do with is defending ourselves. And the troops, they know what they signed up for. So to answer your question Novelty, Yes! I think the war is right! Obviously, Iraq can not govern themselves, which is why we are over there. So yes, I think this war is right. And Spot, be proud of people getting killed for your right to be so negative and unpatriotic.
You know, if this damnable Coalition invasion of the Middle East had never happened there would have been far fewer deaths in the region, and quite definitely there would have been no bombings in England. You do seem to have cause and effect mixed up. Dealing with bombings in the USA was purely a policing issue until it was turned into a war of aggression by administration opportunists like Rumsfeld.
How do I have cause and effect mixed up? We were bombed by terrorist, therefore, we take action to defend ourselves, and now the war isn't right or just? You guys have got to be kidding me! Since when are we supposed to just sit around and take it? Real American! And I see how proud you guys are of your country too! Everyone thinks it has to do with politics, when really the war has to do with is defending ourselves. And the troops, they know what they signed up for. So to answer your question Novelty, Yes! I think the war is right! Obviously, Iraq can not govern themselves, which is why we are over there. So yes, I think this war is right. And Spot, be proud of people getting killed for your right to be so negative and unpatriotic.
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Sweet Tooth
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Diuretic;528238 wrote: Going after AQ in Afghanistan after the atrocities on 9/11 - good.
Invading Iraq which had nothing to do with the atrocities - stupid.
Result=Mess.
I agree with alot of that in a way- invading Iraq might seem pointless, but did we or did we not finally get the dictator who took so many lives and threatened us for so long? Not only that, how many terror plots do you think that we have diverted by capturing and getting rid of alot of high up AQ leaders? Point taken Diuretic.Thanks.
Invading Iraq which had nothing to do with the atrocities - stupid.
Result=Mess.
I agree with alot of that in a way- invading Iraq might seem pointless, but did we or did we not finally get the dictator who took so many lives and threatened us for so long? Not only that, how many terror plots do you think that we have diverted by capturing and getting rid of alot of high up AQ leaders? Point taken Diuretic.Thanks.
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If it were a question of defending America, the American troops would be in America. They're not in America, they're aggressively waging war in a part of the world to which they were never invited and where their presence is abhorrent to those patriotic residents who are committed to removing them from their nation's soil. Had America been invaded and its citizens waged a guerilla campaign to oust the invaders I'd be applauding their behaviour, but they haven't been and they aren't.
Far more people have died as a result of the "liberation" of Iraq than would ever have died had the previous regime stayed in power. "did we or did we not finally get the dictator who took so many lives and threatened us for so long"? Yes you achieved regime change, at great cost to the local inhabitants, but regime change by an external power is an outlawed international war crime which is why your administration lied its head off about non-existent weapons of mass destruction for which it deliberately invented false evidence. And no, that regime never threatened the American homeland and never could have done however long it had remained in office: "and threatened us for so long" is unsustainable.
"be proud of people getting killed for your right to be so negative and unpatriotic"? Not in a million years. They're not there in my name and they're not there with my goodwill either. They volunteered for the job, they weren't coerced into it. They signed up to a contract whereby they'd kill on command in exchange for pay. I find that reprehensible.
Far more people have died as a result of the "liberation" of Iraq than would ever have died had the previous regime stayed in power. "did we or did we not finally get the dictator who took so many lives and threatened us for so long"? Yes you achieved regime change, at great cost to the local inhabitants, but regime change by an external power is an outlawed international war crime which is why your administration lied its head off about non-existent weapons of mass destruction for which it deliberately invented false evidence. And no, that regime never threatened the American homeland and never could have done however long it had remained in office: "and threatened us for so long" is unsustainable.
"be proud of people getting killed for your right to be so negative and unpatriotic"? Not in a million years. They're not there in my name and they're not there with my goodwill either. They volunteered for the job, they weren't coerced into it. They signed up to a contract whereby they'd kill on command in exchange for pay. I find that reprehensible.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Sweet Tooth
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Is it me or are the British really opinionated about the American government? This is the last thing I will say on this subject: ******* if my husband went over there for nothing, TWICE. TEll him that what he is fighting for means nothing. Tell him that he spent a year and a half away from his brand new baby and his new wife because he is just another puppet of a corrupt government. Its jerks like you who make the war not worth it. People are over there fighting for freedom for both countries, considering they where under a dictatorship, and you stand back and can't be grateful for their sacrifice. You don't deserve freedom if you can't appreciate the many troops who sacrifice so much to give it to you. Selfish!!!!
I'm done!!!
I'm done!!!
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Sweet Tooth;528287 wrote: Its jerks like you who make the war not worth it.If only that were true. I'm sure there are enough of us saying it isn't.
People over there, if they're coalition troops, are fighting for a lie and getting paid for it in the process. People are over there fighting to remove them might qualify as fighting for freedom, that seems a reasonable definition of freedom to me.
I have no desire for anyone's sacrifice and if the "liberation" of Iraq hadn't been permitted by a supine electorate swallowing media-hyped patriotic lies and propaganda about "the freedom of democracy" none of this mayhem would have happened. Refusing to sign up and put the uniform on is top of the list as far as principled behaviour goes. Gratitude would be a shocking reaction toward anyone so far gone in moral courage as to sign up to such a mercenary deal. It's wars like this that blacken the name of any military which engage in them.
People over there, if they're coalition troops, are fighting for a lie and getting paid for it in the process. People are over there fighting to remove them might qualify as fighting for freedom, that seems a reasonable definition of freedom to me.
I have no desire for anyone's sacrifice and if the "liberation" of Iraq hadn't been permitted by a supine electorate swallowing media-hyped patriotic lies and propaganda about "the freedom of democracy" none of this mayhem would have happened. Refusing to sign up and put the uniform on is top of the list as far as principled behaviour goes. Gratitude would be a shocking reaction toward anyone so far gone in moral courage as to sign up to such a mercenary deal. It's wars like this that blacken the name of any military which engage in them.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Bill Sikes
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Sweet Tooth;528246 wrote: did we or did we not finally get the dictator who [...] threatened us for so long?
Eh?
Eh?
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Sweet Tooth;528246 wrote: I agree with alot of that in a way- invading Iraq might seem pointless, but did we or did we not finally get the dictator who took so many lives and threatened us for so long? Not only that, how many terror plots do you think that we have diverted by capturing and getting rid of alot of high up AQ leaders? Point taken Diuretic.Thanks.
Silly question - How was Saddam threatening the USA?
Another silly question - How can " the bombings here, and in England mind you, have been significantly reduced." be defended? Before the start of the Iraq war we had zero bombings by Islamic extremists - we had very few Islamic extremists. Since the start of said war we have had one successful multiple bombing and one failed multiple bombing attempt with several others blocked.
In answer to your question, I think that we have diverted no terror plots - on the contrary, we have caused a large number of such plots.
Silly question - How was Saddam threatening the USA?
Another silly question - How can " the bombings here, and in England mind you, have been significantly reduced." be defended? Before the start of the Iraq war we had zero bombings by Islamic extremists - we had very few Islamic extremists. Since the start of said war we have had one successful multiple bombing and one failed multiple bombing attempt with several others blocked.
In answer to your question, I think that we have diverted no terror plots - on the contrary, we have caused a large number of such plots.
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Novelty;528684 wrote: Bryn
sweet tooth is someone who doesn't care about serious issues, your wasting your time, this person is someone who is of the shallowest part of any society you could ever meet, your wasting your time with logic, your talking to a regular member of FG who's a dimwit in disguise...
Posters with multiple personalities do my head in!
sweet tooth is someone who doesn't care about serious issues, your wasting your time, this person is someone who is of the shallowest part of any society you could ever meet, your wasting your time with logic, your talking to a regular member of FG who's a dimwit in disguise...
Posters with multiple personalities do my head in!
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DesignerGal
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Novelty;528684 wrote: Bryn
sweet tooth is someone who doesn't care about serious issues, your wasting your time, this person is someone who is of the shallowest part of any society you could ever meet, your wasting your time with logic, your talking to a regular member of FG who's a dimwit in disguise...
Bryn Mawr;528708 wrote: Posters with multiple personalities do my head in!
Novelty;528719 wrote: :-3
"Sweet Tooth" is NOT BR or LULU. SHe works with me, and she does care about serious issues. Lets not start another witch hunt for past members that you think are new members. ST actually is very "petriotic" and "American". We dont agree on politics or this war, but she does have a right to speak her mind without being accused of this non sense. Can we agree on that?
sweet tooth is someone who doesn't care about serious issues, your wasting your time, this person is someone who is of the shallowest part of any society you could ever meet, your wasting your time with logic, your talking to a regular member of FG who's a dimwit in disguise...
Bryn Mawr;528708 wrote: Posters with multiple personalities do my head in!
Novelty;528719 wrote: :-3
"Sweet Tooth" is NOT BR or LULU. SHe works with me, and she does care about serious issues. Lets not start another witch hunt for past members that you think are new members. ST actually is very "petriotic" and "American". We dont agree on politics or this war, but she does have a right to speak her mind without being accused of this non sense. Can we agree on that?
HBIC
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Bill Sikes
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Bryn Mawr;528708 wrote: Posters with multiple personalities do my head in!
"Socks". Some of them even talk to themselves, disagree with themselves, and
all that malarky.
"Socks". Some of them even talk to themselves, disagree with themselves, and
all that malarky.
Believe what you like!
DesignerGal;528738 wrote: "Sweet Tooth" is NOT BR or LULU. SHe works with me, and she does care about serious issues. Lets not start another witch hunt for past members that you think are new members. ST actually is very "petriotic" and "American". We dont agree on politics or this war, but she does have a right to speak her mind without being accused of this non sense.
Can we agree on that?
As I say, posters with multiple personalities do my head in - I cannot be arsed to work out if Tuppence is Thruppence or is Sweet Tooth is Uncle Tom Cobbly so yes, I agree that another witch hunt is the very last thing we want.
ETA I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions though - I do think thast she should back up the non-sense she did come out with. Being patriotic does not excuse jingoism without justification.
Can we agree on that?
As I say, posters with multiple personalities do my head in - I cannot be arsed to work out if Tuppence is Thruppence or is Sweet Tooth is Uncle Tom Cobbly so yes, I agree that another witch hunt is the very last thing we want.
ETA I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions though - I do think thast she should back up the non-sense she did come out with. Being patriotic does not excuse jingoism without justification.
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Sweet Tooth;528287 wrote: Is it me or are the British really opinionated about the American government?It's not just the British, Sweet Tooth. There was a survey published by the BBC on Tuesday polling 26,381 respondents worldwide - quite a large survey, that - which they do annually, and the proportion supporting US international intervention has dropped sharply in the last two years. The poll's reported at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americ ... 755.stm?ls
In summary:Respondents were asked about the Bush administration's handling of six areas of foreign policy:
The war in Iraq: an average of 73% of respondents disapproved (57% in the US). Disapproval was strongest in Argentina and France, while people in Nigeria, Kenya and the Philippines were more likely to approve.
Detainees in Guantanamo: 67% disapproved (50% in the US). Backing for America on this issue was highest in Nigeria, where 49% approved.
Israeli-Hezbollah war: Washington's role met with approval from respondents in Nigeria and Philippines, but on average 65% disapproved across the 25 countries (50% in the US).
Iran's nuclear programme: again, support for US actions appeared strongest in Kenya (62%), Nigeria (53%) and the Philippines (52%). But, overall 60% of respondents disapproved (50% in the US).
Global warming: more than 80% of respondents in Argentina, France and Germany disapproved compared to 56% overall (54% in the US). But the White House had 50% or more support among those polled in Nigeria, Kenya, the Philippines and South Korea.
North Korea's nuclear programme: opposition to US policy was strongest among respondents in Argentina and Brazil. On average across the 25 countries 54% disapproved (43% in the US).When asked about US military presence in the Middle East, an average of 68% of respondents across the 25 countries answered that it "provokes more conflict than it prevents".
The questions were put to people in: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Chile, China, Egypt, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Kenya, Lebanon, Mexico, Nigeria, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Russia, South Korea, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and the United States.
In summary:Respondents were asked about the Bush administration's handling of six areas of foreign policy:
The war in Iraq: an average of 73% of respondents disapproved (57% in the US). Disapproval was strongest in Argentina and France, while people in Nigeria, Kenya and the Philippines were more likely to approve.
Detainees in Guantanamo: 67% disapproved (50% in the US). Backing for America on this issue was highest in Nigeria, where 49% approved.
Israeli-Hezbollah war: Washington's role met with approval from respondents in Nigeria and Philippines, but on average 65% disapproved across the 25 countries (50% in the US).
Iran's nuclear programme: again, support for US actions appeared strongest in Kenya (62%), Nigeria (53%) and the Philippines (52%). But, overall 60% of respondents disapproved (50% in the US).
Global warming: more than 80% of respondents in Argentina, France and Germany disapproved compared to 56% overall (54% in the US). But the White House had 50% or more support among those polled in Nigeria, Kenya, the Philippines and South Korea.
North Korea's nuclear programme: opposition to US policy was strongest among respondents in Argentina and Brazil. On average across the 25 countries 54% disapproved (43% in the US).When asked about US military presence in the Middle East, an average of 68% of respondents across the 25 countries answered that it "provokes more conflict than it prevents".
The questions were put to people in: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Chile, China, Egypt, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Kenya, Lebanon, Mexico, Nigeria, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Russia, South Korea, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and the United States.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Believe what you like!
DG.... ""Sweet Tooth" is NOT BR or LULU. SHe works with me, and she does care about serious issues. Lets not start another witch hunt for past members that you think are new members. ST actually is very "petriotic" and "American". We dont agree on politics or this war, but she does have a right to speak her mind without being accused of this non sense. Can we agree on that?"
++++++++ Well, I'll agree to it! She's certainly NOT me! I disagree with her about 100% on this war issue. But, as a fellow poster, I don't HAVE to agree...I can treat her with respect, which is more than I can say for "NOVELTY."
++++++++ Well, I'll agree to it! She's certainly NOT me! I disagree with her about 100% on this war issue. But, as a fellow poster, I don't HAVE to agree...I can treat her with respect, which is more than I can say for "NOVELTY."
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay