Gay ? Penguin Book Upsets School

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:14 am

Gay penguin book shakes up Ill. school

By JIM SUHR, Associated Press WriterFri Nov 17, 6:47 AM ET

A picture book about two male penguins raising a baby penguin is getting a chilly reception among some parents who worry about the book's availability to children — and the reluctance of school administrators to restrict access to it.

The concerns are the latest involving "And Tango Makes Three," the illustrated children's book based on a true story of two male penguins in New York City's Central Park Zoo that adopted a fertilized egg and raised the chick as their own.

Complaining about the book's homosexual undertones, some parents of Shiloh Elementary School students believe the book — available to be checked out of the school's library in this 11,000-resident town 20 miles east of St. Louis — tackles topics their children aren't ready to handle.

Their request: Move the book to the library's regular shelves and restrict it to a section for mature issues, perhaps even requiring parental permission before a child can check it out.

For now, "And Tango Makes Three" will stay put, said school district Superintendent Jennifer Filyaw, though a panel she appointed suggested the book be moved and require parental permission to be checked out. The district's attorney said moving it might be construed as censorship.

Filyaw considers the book "adorable" and age appropriate, written for children ages 4 to 8.

"My feeling is that a library is to serve an entire population," she said. "It means you represent different families in a society — different religions, different beliefs."

Lilly Del Pinto thought the book looked charming when her 5-year-old daughter brought it home in September. Del Pinto said she was halfway through reading it to her daughter "when the zookeeper said the two penguins must be in love."

"That's when I ended the story," she said.

Del Pinto said her daughter's teacher told her she was unfamiliar with the book, and the school's librarian directed the mother to Filyaw.

"I wasn't armed with pitchforks or anything. I innocently was seeking answers," Del Pinto said, agreeing with Filyaw's belief that pulling the book from the shelves could constitute censorship.

The book has created similar flaps elsewhere. Earlier this year, two parents voiced concerns about the book with librarians at the Rolling Hills' Consolidated Library's branch in the northwest Missouri town of Savannah.

Barbara Read, Rolling Hills' director, has said she consulted with staff members at the Omaha, Neb., and Kansas City zoos and the University of Oklahoma's zoology department, who told her adoptions aren't unusual in the world of penguins.

She said the book was then moved to the nonfiction section because it was based on actual events. In that section, she said, there was less of a chance that the book would "blindside" someone.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:51 pm

Geesh..what warped minds people have. What about Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street? They share a bedroom!! Shall we pull them too?

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:09 pm

I see your concern, Magenta. But too, often, I think people see "love" as sexual love, between partners. Not the love of friends for each other. I think men, especially would never say they "loved" a male friend..for fear of being called gay.

That is just my thought on this.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:17 pm

Magenta flame;463354 wrote: I dont' know about this one guys. I'm a bit torn here.

As a child I saw bert and ernie as really good mates, Noddy and bigs ears as well.

Why then as a child would I need to hear that they are in love? I know for sure I would have had the eeewwwhhh factor. My own children are turned off by anything gay. (no it didn't come from me we dont' make comments about gays in our house)

Every parent censors what comes into their own home and they have a right to protect their children as they see fit. This woman is within her rights to close the book and question the standing of the education department.

why does a 4 year old and 8 year old in the mainstream need to know about homosexualality? Some people would say it's a fact of life, but so is suicide, so do we give a book to minors on points of suicide?

What about andy pandy and teddy bear? Bill and Ben made me think I had a speech impediment and the wooden tops made me terrified of clothes pegs. Muffin the mule always amused for no rational reason. The clangers affected a whole generation. Stories about gay penguins seem innocuous by comparisan.

Why do these perverted parents assume the penguins were gay anyway? It says more about their own prurience than anything else.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:51 am

Marie5656;463342 wrote: Geesh..what warped minds people have. What about Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street? They share a bedroom!! Shall we pull them too?
I'm sure they're pulling each other already.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:12 pm

I wouldn't want my kids being taught that gay lifestyle is normal...Because I don't think it is...

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:58 am

Diuretic;561852 wrote: Hmmmm.....thinking, thinking......What would you want your kids to be taught about homosexuallity KS? Now let me say immediately I am not attacking your view. I can well understand it. I'm not arguing that any child should be exposed to some sort of proselytising about homosexuality, I'd be totally oppposed to it. So my question is, how to educate children about sexuality I suppose.

As for homosexuality being normal. "Normal" is a rubbery concept that changes in time and place, it's basically what a society or community or whatever, says it is at any given time. That being so then it's acceptable, at least in my view, for people to lobby to get certain behaviours which might be deemed deviant (in the sociological sense) to be considered within the limits of acceptability. That doesn't mean proselytising, I hasten to add.

I don't want my child taught in anything else besides academics, because I myself wouldn't have time to do it, and as it turns out, it's great convenience considering I would be at work during the time, in which I would be paying taxes for...

Teach about the anatomy sure, but teach the things we know to be truths pertaining to the anatomy...It would be no different than if teachers were trying to teach your kids about god, if you so happen to believe there is no god...

I don't believe in it, therefore I don't want it taught to my kids.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:41 am

So the next question which arises is....

Is it better to teach our young penguins that life is better with 2 parents - whether they're both mummy penguins, both daddy penguins or a mummy and a daddy penguin?

Or is it better to teach them that only mummy and daddy penguins are acceptable, even if baby penguin lives with mummy penguin whilst daddy penguin has moved out to live with secretarial penguin?

People (in general, not in FG) are too rigid in their beliefs. They think "My way is right, therefore anything different is wrong!" If people could accept that other people have different points of view, we'd all get along much better in this world. How many fights are over the colour of people's skin or people's religions? We all look the same underneath the skin, if you cut us we all bleed. Surely it is better to be a good person than a warmonger who fights in the name of God or Allah or Buddha, etc. They'll probably all turn out to be the same sentient being anyway.

Love is hard enough to find. Surely the warmth emanating from two people's love should be considered a joy to all those whom it warms, including children and regardless of the lovers' sexual orientation?

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:47 am

I may be dense and I've not seen the book but what would have happened to Tango if the two pengosexuals hadn't adopted him as an egg in the first place?

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:51 am

Rapunzel;561915 wrote:

So the next question which arises is....

Is it better to teach our young penguins that life is better with 2 parents - whether they're both mummy penguins, both daddy penguins or a mummy and a daddy penguin?

Or is it better to teach them that only mummy and daddy penguins are acceptable, even if baby penguin lives with mummy penguin whilst daddy penguin has moved out to live with secretarial penguin?

People (in general, not in FG) are too rigid in their beliefs. They think "My way is right, therefore anything different is wrong!" If people could accept that other people have different points of view, we'd all get along much better in this world. How many fights are over the colour of people's skin or people's religions? We all look the same underneath the skin, if you cut us we all bleed. Surely it is better to be a good person than a warmonger who fights in the name of God or Allah or Buddha, etc. They'll probably all turn out to be the same sentient being anyway.

Love is hard enough to find. Surely the warmth emanating from two people's love should be considered a joy to all those whom it warms, including children and regardless of the lovers' sexual orientation?

If I could write properly that is what I would of wrote :yh_clap :yh_clap

You read my mind Rap, in future could you PM me a cool post like that and let me use it, so I look smart :sneaky:

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:58 am

SuzyB;561935 wrote: If I could write properly that is what I would of wrote :yh_clap

You read my mind Rap, in future could you PM me a cool post like that and let me use it, so I look smart :sneaky:

LMAO! Ok no probs Suz :wah: :wah:

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:58 am

I have to agree with K here. I'm not sold on the idea of it being "normal" either just because society now tells me it is. That said, I don't want it presented poorly either so that people get hurt or confused. But i would like to see it be the parents' job rather than the that of the school to cover it with their kids the way they see fit. And "seeing fit" is a concept all its own. I would hate for some screwball to tell his kid to beat up gays or something like that, without the school or some other force to counterbalance that. So there's a book to hopefully lead to open discussion about the subject. I don't think it should be banned. I don't think any should be.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:01 am

spot;561924 wrote: I may be dense and I've not seen the book but what would have happened to Tango if the two pengosexuals hadn't adopted him as an egg in the first place?

He'd have been lunch?

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:14 am

gmc;463366 wrote: Why do these perverted parents assume the penguins were gay anyway? It says more about their own prurience than anything else.

Because the book is about the true story of two male penguins that adopted an egg/baby penguin/whatever. As someone that watches Animal Planet and NG all the time, I think this is a great story. But when the author of the book implies that the two male penguins are in love, the author has strayed from presented a fascinating true tale to indoctrinating his personal agendas onto the reading public, many of whom for this book are children. It's not the parents that are perverted, it is the author who chooses this opportunity to force his/her ideas on everyone who reads the book. The public demands that religion be left out of school and taught at home. I see no reason why sexual mores shouldn't be the same.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:18 am

Rapunzel;561915 wrote: Is it better to teach our young penguins that life is better with 2 parents - whether they're both mummy penguins, both daddy penguins or a mummy and a daddy penguin?

Or is it better to teach them that only mummy and daddy penguins are acceptable, even if baby penguin lives with mummy penguin whilst daddy penguin has moved out to live with secretarial penguin?

How about relating the story as it actually happened and leave the personal takes on the morality of the tale out of it. Or let the parents discuss the underlying ideals of the book with their children as they see fit. If the author was making a religious lesson out of the story, he would be accused of forcing his beliefs on everyone else. How is it any different when the author uses this story to promote his personal views on homosexuality?

crazygal · Post by **crazygal** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:31 am

Aww I don't see anything at all wrong with the book, I wouldn't stop my son from reading it. He is only 7 and knows what being gay means. I've already told him that it isn't a choice, you either are or you aren't and if he turns out to be I'll still love him the same. It was actually yesterday we spoke about it as he said 'yuck' to an advert on the TV where two guys kissed and I told him it wasn't 'yuck'.

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:37 am

crazygal;562992 wrote: Aww I don't see anything at all wrong with the book, I wouldn't stop my son from reading it. He is only 7 and knows what being gay means. I've already told him that it isn't a choice, you either are or you aren't and if he turns out to be I'll still love him the same. It was actually yesterday we spoke about it as he said 'yuck' to an advert on the TV where two guys kissed and I told him it wasn't 'yuck'.

i think to be PC correct he should call you DADDY claire.......

crazygal · Post by **crazygal** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:42 am

jimbo;563000 wrote: i think to be PC correct he should call you DADDY claire.......

Ha ha cheek no, he calls me mum thanks. :p I just hate homophobia.

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:52 am

crazygal;563003 wrote: Ha ha cheek no, he calls me mum thanks. :p I just hate homophobia.

thats coz your gay

crazygal · Post by **crazygal** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:54 am

jimbo;563015 wrote: thats coz your gay

Lol no and neither am I a lesbian. The thought of even kissing another woman makes me wanna hurl but as they don't choose to be straight or gay then I don't see how anyone can judge. I am anti bio-sexual though, that's just greediness!

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:58 am

crazygal;563017 wrote: Lol no and neither am I a lesbian. The thought of even kissing another woman makes me wanna hurl but as they don't choose to be straight or gay then I don't see how anyone can judge. I am anti bio-sexual though, that's just greediness!

i have a few gay friends ,i'm not gay i know that so they dont bother me ,as long as my fudge is unudged i'm ok ,besides it leaves more women for my cuz jess

Tater Tazz · Post by **Tater Tazz** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:43 am

:wah: :wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:58 am

crazygal;562992 wrote: Aww I don't see anything at all wrong with the book, I wouldn't stop my son from reading it. He is only 7 and knows what being gay means. I've already told him that it isn't a choice, you either are or you aren't and if he turns out to be I'll still love him the same. It was actually yesterday we spoke about it as he said 'yuck' to an advert on the TV where two guys kissed and I told him it wasn't 'yuck'.
Come on. He's 7! It's all yuck to a 7 year old unless it's a boy kissing his dog or a cowboy kissing his horse.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:59 am

jimbo;563019 wrote: [...] as long as my fudge is unudged [...]
:yh_rotfl

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:00 am

Accountable;563061 wrote: Come on. He's 7! It's all yuck to a 7 year old unless it's a boy kissing his dog or a cowboy kissing his horse.

now that is just wrong :-2

kids have germs :wah: :wah:

crazygal · Post by **crazygal** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:09 am

Accountable;563061 wrote: Come on. He's 7! It's all yuck to a 7 year old unless it's a boy kissing his dog or a cowboy kissing his horse.

Ha ha true, I just don't want him being like his dad, he hated them.