Should you end it all...

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:42 pm

...when you get to be 80?

My husband has said in the last week..."if you live to be 80, you should just jump off of a building." Now, to hear him say that made me say..."NO!! ARE YOU CRAZY!!" It broke my heart! Upon further reflection...he might be onto something.

My Nano just came from a Dr. appointment to remove "suspicious" tissue that might be cancer. She has gone through this many, many times. My Papaw can hardly walk. He has some trouble with nerves...and his legs are getting worse each day. My other grandpa, Pop has Macular Degeneration. He can no longer drive...he has to ask me what bills he pulls out of his wallet...etc. Do I want my grandparents to jump off a building...ummm...no. But watching your loved ones get older is hard...hard...hard.

Don't take my jumping off a building seriously and blast me. I'm just sad tonight.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:50 pm

I understand where you and your husband are both coming from. The thing is, there's 80 year olds in better shape than I am, and some teenagers in worse shape than I am. Can't really set an age. Watching loved ones suffer isn't fun or easy.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:58 pm

My dad made it to 94. He was still water skiing at 80 and playing golf in the 90's in his late 80's. I am 70, bungy jumped on my 60th, still scuba dive to 100 ft. and am physically active. It's all in the genes.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:46 pm

Taking a cue from TW...

Gentleman goes for annual physical. the most intense and extensive one he has yet to take. The doctor comes back with the man's chart. Concern on his face.

"Am i gonna live to be 80, Doc?"

"Well," Doc says," do you go out partying every night?"

"NO!"

"Do you gamble, drink,or smoke?"

"of course not," the man replies.

"Do you fraternise with loose women, or consume any illicit drugs for recreation?"

"Absolutely not!"

"do you spend all your free time out doors in the sun?"

"not a chance," the man says.

"Then why," the doc asks,"do you want to live to be 80?"

Yes it is hard to watch loved ones struggle. I think in one way or another we have all had to see it. You just have to rember all the fun stuff you did together.

You should see if your Pop, or Papaw will tell you about any adventures they might have had. Helps them to feel young again, remember what it was like to be young and raise Heck. Ya know?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:48 pm

HOTSAUCE,

80 can be young for some, or extremely old for others. Genetics play a big part in the whole process, and your health, and your brain. If you take care of yourself you can be very able bodied at 80. If you don't the long walk of a short pier may not be such a bad idea.

I work with ALZHEIMER'S patients it's awful, it doesn't care who you are, what color your skin is, how much money you have, and some case your age makes no difference. If you have ALZHEIMER'S your decent into darkness is a painful struggle for you, and every member of your family. Having seen so much of if in my work over the last 14 years, I have decided I would take the walk off a short pier before Alz takes me.

On the up side if you have longevity in your family, you most likely will live a long and productive life.

Just be kind to your body everything in moderation..

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:51 pm

I liked that post, Wolverine!

My wife says, "God never gives us more than we can handle." That's a pretty good attitude for her, considering that she's been hospitalized 97 times in the last ten years.

But she has a point, struggle and pain are a part of life.

That said, my mother died of ALS. Her body just shut down and disconnected, despite the fact that her brain was perfectly sound. Imagine beign trapped in your own body, unable to even blink. She elected to have the feeding tube and water withheld, to save us all the expense of sustaining her on life support for years while she slowly decayed.

A good thing, a bad thing? I won't judge until I am in those shoes.

I have a problem, though. I believe that if you commit suicide, you go to Hell. :-1

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:52 pm

Oh...and cheer up hotsauce, they'll be alright. It's all part of the grand design, the big plan...Destiny.

You're so excitable and onery that you'll most likely live to be 100 and then give the Reaper a hard time when he shows up.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:31 pm

My grandfather, who had multiple hip surgeries and lost circulation in his legs requiring amputation, looked enviously at my parent's dog as it was being taken in to the vet to be put down. Euthanasia is actually a serious debate.

On a lighter note. The older you get the more justification you have for being an a$$hole.

ice maiden · Post by **ice maiden** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:54 am

i used to work looking after old people i am sorry to say i have heard alot of them wishing for the end but most of them still fight to live when it comes

i think that says more then anything we all my wish for things to be different but the end is hard for all of us

live life to the full and enjoy yourself thats what i do and thats the advice my clients always gave me too

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:38 am

Please don`t talk about ending it all! Firstly, you`re getting back some of the pension you paid into, and more seriously, things MAY actually get better (advances in care or medicine, for example) and also it would be awful to leave your sad friends and relations behind and even more awful if you did finish it all and find out death was even worse!

(Just my humble opinion)

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:37 am

I do find it odd that it is humane not to let an animal suffer, but murder not to let a human suffer. On the other hand, even though I'm not a religious person, I believe that it is up to God to let our suffering end when he's ready. As far as the saying that God doesn't give us more than we can handle, how do you explain suicide then?

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:40 am

Ask him again if he still feels that way when he is 79-1/2, & in fair condition!!

Cars :driving:

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:58 pm

My granny passed on at the ripe old age of 95 and at 94 1/2 years she still walked 1.5 city blocks to church each day.

When we went to visit her every day I would ask her how she was doing and she always said.

"I am tired"

Bless her heart I knew she lived a full and wonderful life but she worked dreadfully hard too and she was tired.

No Hot don't jump off the cliff at 80 unless your terminal. The BF has talked about this too and I said the same thing, if your life becomes unbearable then your within every right to take your own life.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:07 pm

minks wrote: if your life becomes unbearable then your within every right to take your own life.

If you got to the above stage would you actually be physically/mentally able to take your own life??? ie what if you end up with alzheimers??

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:12 pm

Wow. What a topic. I'd have to say...YOU'RE NUTS!!! Seriously, I'm sorry you're sad, and yes, it is hard to watch the people you love grow old. However...My gramps is 85. He has all his wits, still drives, safely too! And is totally independent. About 4 years ago the family got together to re-side my aunt's house. There's my gramps, 20 feet in the air on scaffolding, tearing down old siding and tossing it to the ground. There can be lots of life and energy left, even at 80 and beyond.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:02 pm

BabyRider wrote: Wow. What a topic. I'd have to say...YOU'RE NUTS!!! Seriously, I'm sorry you're sad, and yes, it is hard to watch the people you love grow old. However...My gramps is 85. He has all his wits, still drives, safely too! And is totally independent. About 4 years ago the family got together to re-side my aunt's house. There's my gramps, 20 feet in the air on scaffolding, tearing down old siding and tossing it to the ground. There can be lots of life and energy left, even at 80 and beyond.

Well I don't think Hot is nuts, I think at this point in time it is hypathetical. And who knows until we are all that old and either decrepit or still kicking we can't make any judgement calls now. It is a sad thought at younger ages to think of becoming old and fragile but we don't know what is ahead of us, and who knows what any of us are going to have to live with.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:08 pm

Working the last 2 years with mostly WWII veterans, I just don't look forward to getting old. Couples that seemed so full of vitality a year ago, now are barely functioning. It's sad to see day in and day out. Still, there is a reason for them to be hanging on and when it's their time, it'll be hard, but I know they'll be better off.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:13 pm

BabyRider wrote: Wow. What a topic. I'd have to say...YOU'RE NUTS!!! Seriously, I'm sorry you're sad, and yes, it is hard to watch the people you love grow old. However...My gramps is 85. He has all his wits, still drives, safely too! And is totally independent. About 4 years ago the family got together to re-side my aunt's house. There's my gramps, 20 feet in the air on scaffolding, tearing down old siding and tossing it to the ground. There can be lots of life and energy left, even at 80 and beyond.
Oh yeah...I'm nuts...be afraid...be very afraid! :sneaky:

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:16 pm

Peg wrote: I do find it odd that it is humane not to let an animal suffer, but murder not to let a human suffer. God doesn't give us more than we can handle, how do you explain suicide then?
Interesting thoughts!

devist8me · Post by **devist8me** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:28 pm

hotsauce wrote: ...when you get to be 80?

My husband has said in the last week..."if you live to be 80, you should just jump off of a building." Now, to hear him say that made me say..."NO!! ARE YOU CRAZY!!" It broke my heart! Upon further reflection...he might be onto something.

My Nano just came from a Dr. appointment to remove "suspicious" tissue that might be cancer. She has gone through this many, many times. My Papaw can hardly walk. He has some trouble with nerves...and his legs are getting worse each day. My other grandpa, Pop has Macular Degeneration. He can no longer drive...he has to ask me what bills he pulls out of his wallet...etc. Do I want my grandparents to jump off a building...ummm...no. But watching your loved ones get older is hard...hard...hard.

Don't take my jumping off a building seriously and blast me. I'm just sad tonight.
Being sad doesn't qualify someone as being nuts. Watching family members you've known all your life get old and develope chronic illnesses tends to bring ya down a bit. I feel very lucky to be almost 35 and still have grandparents around. I remember when they use to watch me as a kid. Both were very alert and physically able to get after me when I was being a little onry. Over the past 15 years, Nano has had a kidney removed, then dealt with CHF, followed by multiple cancer sites which was treated with chemo, then severe respiratory problems, plus a whole list of other problems. I don't think she's going to "bounce back: after all this and ever be like she was. Whats awesome is her attitude though, even though sometimes its a front. She just says, "oh another hill the Lord gave me to climb...I'll get over it too".

So try to stay up Hot and get as much visiting in as you can. And don't worry, your not as nutty as some people I know.:wah:

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:23 pm

Posted by minks:

Well I don't think Hot is nuts, I think at this point in time it is hypathetical. And who knows until we are all that old and either decrepit or still kicking we can't make any judgement calls now. It is a sad thought at younger ages to think of becoming old and fragile but we don't know what is ahead of us, and who knows what any of us are going to have to live with.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's no fun getting "Old"! Every day when you get up something else seems to hurt. But it's not so bad, when you consider the alternative!!!

Cars :driving:

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:02 pm

I agree with BR, there can be lots of life and energy left at 80 and beyond.

I do my level best to stay healthy, and I'm committed to working at it for

years to come.

A lot DOES have to do with genetics, my mom just turned 79 and with

her Alzheimer's, I wouldn't want to be there. My hope is that I take more

after dad, 78 and still rides, trains, and puts shoes on his own horse, keeps

a chin-up bar in his barn and does almost 50 chin-ups a day. Those

former Marines, dontcha know. It's all in how you take things, I think.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:08 pm

minks wrote: And who knows until we are all that old and either decrepit or still kicking we can't make any judgement calls now.
that's what it boils down to for me. don't make decisions of that kind about the future, since you don't know now what you'll know then.

never say never, you know?

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:46 pm

personally i think the whole life thing is backwards. I think we should come into this life in an old body, retirement plan, "gold watch." The younger we become, the more we learn about everything in the world. By the time we hit our 20's, we will have been breathing for 80. So we have a lifetime of knowledge and wisdom, and a body to keep up. And when we finally do "go" we leave as a twinkle in our parents' eye.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:50 pm

Jives wrote: I liked that post, Wolverine!

I have a problem, though. I believe that if you commit suicide, you go to Hell. :-1

thanks Jives.

I have a serious question for you though.

On 9/11 when the people on those top couple of floors realized they were trapped and couldn't get out they started to jump, rather than burn to death. Are they going to Hell? Personally i hope He welcomed them with open arms.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:05 pm

Wolverine wrote: thanks Jives.

I have a serious question for you though.

On 9/11 when the people on those top couple of floors realized they were trapped and couldn't get out they started to jump, rather than burn to death. Are they going to Hell? Personally i hope He welcomed them with open arms.
i question whether that qualifies as suicide. if death by one means is imminent, and there is no alternative, you're just taking a different path to the same outcome you'd have anyway. that's not self-murder.

plus, the instinctive reaction to fire touching you is escape. if escape means falling three feet out a first floor window, or three hundred feet from up in a skyscraper, the conscious mind really doesn't have a lot of control in the matter.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:29 am

Wolverine wrote: thanks Jives.

I have a serious question for you though.

On 9/11 when the people on those top couple of floors realized they were trapped and couldn't get out they started to jump, rather than burn to death. Are they going to Hell? Personally i hope He welcomed them with open arms.good question...

I think Anastrophe answered this well. Wondering if Jives will see this.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:39 am

"i question whether that qualifies as suicide. if death by one means is imminent, and there is no alternative, you're just taking a different path to the same outcome you'd have anyway. that's not self-murder"

Does this mean that say you are dying from cancer, etc. and you are only given weeks to live, it is okay to take your life?

Myself, I would rather go quickly than to let my family watch me die a slow, painful death.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:42 am

I totally agree, Peg. I think Jives said that suicide was a sin. So, does jumping off a building that is burning qualify as suicide? Or ending your life if you have cancer? Are there some suicides that are sins...and some that are not?

Do you go to hell for all suicide...or just some? :-2

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:05 am

How about assisted suicide? You don't actually commit the suicide yourself.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:30 am

Christians have living wills. Is that a sin?

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:36 am

Peg wrote: How about assisted suicide? You don't actually commit the suicide yourself.
I think Christians would argue that you ask them to do it...so that is the sin...right? Hmmm...interesting.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sun May 08, 2005 11:57 pm

Living wills aren't exclusive to christians. Lots of people have one. I would like Ted to take a look at this thread. See what he thinks.