Boy Suspended for Talking to Mom

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:14 pm

http://www.wtov9.com/education/4459912/ ... 0305062005

COLUMBUS, Ga. -- A high school junior in Georgia has been suspended for 10 days for refusing to end a cell phone call to his mother who is a soldier in Iraq.

Kevin Francois, a 17-year-old student at Spencer High School in Columbus, said he was suspended for disorderly conduct Wednesday after a confrontation. He said the confrontation began when he was told to give up his cell phone at lunch during the call.

His mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, left in January for a one-year tour and serves with the 203rd Forward Support Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division.

Francois, whose father was killed when he was 5 years old, has been living with a guardian in Columbus since her deployment overseas.

Francois got the call from his mother at 12:30 p.m., which he said was his lunch break. He said he went outside the school building to get a better reception. A teacher who saw Francois on his phone told him to hang up. He refused.

According to the Ledger-Enquirer, Francois said the teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up. The paper said the student told them he then went with the teacher to the school's office to surrender his phone. His mother reportedly called again at 12:37 p.m. and left a message scolding her son about hanging up and telling him to answer the phone when she calls, the Ledger-Enquirer reported.

"Kevin got defiant and disorderly with Mr. Turner and another assistant principal," assistant Alfred Parham told the Ledger-Enquirer. "He got defiant with me. He refused to leave Mr. Turner's office. When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."

The Muscogee County School District Board of Education's policy said students are allowed to have cell phones in school, but cannot use them during school hours.

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I'm sorry. I think this suspension is WAY off. His dad is dead, his mom in Iraq. It's not like she called during class.

Post by **spot** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:58 pm

The whole concept of "zero tolerance" is becoming more and more embedded in society. Rules take over from guidelines and judgement. If that's the way you want to organize your lives, then that's what you get. It's people who are behaving in this way, not robots.

cars · Post by **cars** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:14 pm

We had a thread a little while ago about "Common Sense", which none of the so-called "Adults" involved here have displayed in this situation!!! Expecially since call was made during students "Lunch Time. What's next "they" telling him he can't have a Tuna sandwich for his lunch? :wah:

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:58 pm

I agree this suspension is off the mark. :-5 He was talking to his MOTHER in Iraq, not his drug dealer, or his girlfriend. Some COMMON SENSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED..

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:14 pm

The thing he got suspended for was becoming defiant in the office though. Is that correct?

devist8me · Post by **devist8me** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:20 pm

They should have given the kids a break!

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:30 pm

How sad is that...Man - even our school here which is really strick - private school lets the kids have their phones during lunch time..They are not allowed to use the office phone unless a parent is called by the office first - to let them know they are calling..DUH... Give this kids a break..We have a friend over there - I am so sad when we recieve a call from him and we are not here to take it..It almost makes you feel like you let him down...Our soilders need to know that we are here for them..anytime.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:31 pm

no pagers and no phones in schools was instituted because they were a favorite tool of drug dealing activities. and a distraction from studies. evidently this school had a hard and fast rule they felt they had to enforce. i do agree this is a sad tale and am sorry for the young man's distress.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:39 pm

he got the 10 days because he became "out of contol"...not for cell phone use. you can't let a kid get out of control...with or without a cell phone in his/her hand.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:46 pm

He went to the office to surrender his phone. I'm thinking if someone had actually listened to what he was telling them, he would not have felt the need to become defiant. It has to be very frustrating wanting to talk to a loved one in Iraq. Rules are rules sure, but there are times rules have to be put aside for human compassion.

cars · Post by **cars** » Sat May 07, 2005 4:23 am

Posted by hotsauce:

he got the 10 days because he became "out of contol"...not for cell phone use. you can't let a kid get out of control...with or without a cell phone in his/her hand.

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It was because of cell phone use!! He became "out of control" because he was not allowed to use his "cell phone" during his "LUNCH" period -"outside on the school grounds"! He was not in class, & not disturbing any other students, just some heartless busy body Teacher. Who seems like may have had it in for him!!!

Think about it, he was talking to his (Soldier) Mother in Iraq, and Soldiers get "Killed" there "every" day. That could have been the last time he may have had to chance to ever talk to her again!!! :wah:

Post by **spot** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:33 am

SILVER SHE FOXXE wrote: I'm so glad I live in Canada...truly the land of the free and the home of the brave!!Welcome to the Garden, Silver She Foxxe. I've never heard anyone make so much noise as they came in through the door! - I couldn't agree more with every word of that.

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:40 am

Astonishing, all those rights for all sort of minority groups no matter how crazy the rest of us think they are, but when it comes to rights for a teenager who wants to talk to his mother, a serving soldier fighting a war for her country in another country, absolutely nothing.......

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat May 07, 2005 8:38 am

Well said silver! By the way, welcome to the garden.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:13 am

Rules are rules. He broke them, he suffers the consequences of his own actions.

You all have rules at work...can you break them without consequence? No. Then should a school teach kids it's OK to break the rules? That's setting them up for failure in the workplace.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:49 am

strong believer wrote: When I think of a young man who being punished because he loves and respects her .

No...he's being punished for breaking the rules, and for going ballistic when getting caught at it. He got what he deserves. In the future, perhaps he'll understand that he is not above the rules.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 10:35 am

as one person who "defends all of us" and puts my life on the line, i suppose Jives and i are the only ones who understand why rules are enforced in this instance. i feel for this young man, i really do. i raised three sons and have a big soft spot for teenage boys. his situation is a heartbreaker. but he has to obey the rules or we have anarchy. i am not selective in who i arrest, if they break the law that's it. even if i feel sorry for them. i wish his Mom safe passage.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat May 07, 2005 10:48 am

strong believer wrote: any true american would and should become angry when anyone tries to stop them from supporting those precious men and women who are defending all of us.

Nice semantics, but you slant the issue. They weren't stopping him from supporting the troops, they were stopping him from using a disruptive piece of electronic equipment at a school.

And you should know...I'm an Air Force Officer.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat May 07, 2005 10:51 am

lady cop wrote: as one person who "defends all of us" and puts my life on the line, i suppose Jives and i are the only ones who understand why rules are enforced in this instance. i feel for this young man, i really do. i raised three sons and have a big soft spot for teenage boys. his situation is a heartbreaker. but he has to obey the rules or we have anarchy. i am not selective in who i arrest, if they break the law that's it. even if i feel sorry for them. i wish his Mom safe passage.]

I agree with LC. Without rules, we not only don't have a school, we don't have a society.

What if this boy had shoplifted to send something to his mom, would you support him then? What if he had beaten up the principal, it seems he was pretty aggressive....would you still think it's OK?

Go ahead, commend him for supporting his mother, I do. But you are not being a good adult or role model if you support him for delberately doing what he knew was wrong.

Post by **spot** » Sat May 07, 2005 10:56 am

Jives wrote: I agree with LC. Without rules, we not only don't have a school, we don't have a society.Jives, as a matter of interest, would you describe America these days as authoritarian? There does seem to be a lack of discretion on the part of those handling this incident, and an over-reliance on published rules.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat May 07, 2005 10:59 am

Funny thing about that, Spot, people seem to always cry for a return to the days of "values" and "morals".

Well in those past days, children obeyed the rules. Now, the very people who want those rules back, whine and cry when they are enforced. I consider it hypocritical and lackadaisical.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:00 am

The suspension was reduced to three days because the school officials got so many phone calls about it. Still, 3 days is more than he deserved, but better than 10 I guess.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:18 am

spot wrote: Jives, as a matter of interest, would you describe America these days as authoritarian? There does seem to be a lack of discretion on the part of those handling this incident, and an over-reliance on published rules."published rules" is what i have to live by, the rule of law. sorry. maybe i should just make them up as i go along and only arrest those that annoy me.

Post by **spot** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:28 am

lady cop wrote: "published rules" is what i have to live by, the rule of law. sorry. maybe i should just make them up as i go along and only arrest those that annoy me. I see a difference between a school rule book and a legal enactment enforceable by the police, lady. I was discussing the matter of the thread, not anarchy on the street.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:32 am

the entity, the school, has the right to enforce its rules also.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:58 am

spot wrote: I see a difference between a school rule book and a legal enactment enforceable by the police, lady. I was discussing the matter of the thread, not anarchy on the street.

no, you were not. you were following your normal Troll pattern, to wit:

Jives, as a matter of interest, would you describe America these days as authoritarian?

there you have it. this incident, one incident at one school in one state of the union, immediately extrapolated to "america". oh, you cleverly couched it as a question, well done old chap. but your interest is not in this specific incident. your interest is in turning the conversation into an indictment of america.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:10 pm

SILVER SHE FOXXE wrote: Give me a break!@&)*(_(

Are you without sin that you can cast the first stone? or have you been stoned a number of times and are just lashing out??Sheesh.,..,..Methinks someone should give Dr. Phil your addy....It's people like you in this world that started these darned wars in the first place and left them for people like the young boy's mom to clean up!!!!

You should be ashamed of yourself for even uttering such nonsense....i can't believe such tripe~~~and you call yourself a wordsmith? do you rely on the quack dr. phil, psych for the masses? Jives has every right to his opinion without being blamed for wars. two posts here and you're calling one of our own to task?

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:15 pm

lady cop wrote: as one person who "defends all of us" and puts my life on the line, i suppose Jives and i are the only ones who understand why rules are enforced in this instance. i feel for this young man, i really do. i raised three sons and have a big soft spot for teenage boys. his situation is a heartbreaker. but he has to obey the rules or we have anarchy. i am not selective in who i arrest, if they break the law that's it. even if i feel sorry for them. i wish his Mom safe passage.
read my posts....I was with you too, LC!

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:18 pm

hotsauce wrote: read my posts....I was with you too, LC! *hug* nobody has to agree with me, that's fine, but i am pissed at the abuse of Jives by a newbie.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:19 pm

I agree RULES ARE RULES, and we need to get back to basics in our schools.

Having said that I feel some sort of compromise could have been reach by the adults in this situtation. He is a young man trying to explain who he is talking to, and no one is listening. Maybe if they had the could have said something along the lines of:

You have told us your talking to your mom in IRAQ, could you tell her to hold a minute and come with me to the room, or office, or off the school grounds and you can finish your conversation with your MOM.. You know son there is a no phone policy on campus. I know this call is very improtant to you so lets see if we can get you to a private place to talk to her.

No suspension, no anger, and he could talk to his mom, its called reasoning.. :-5

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:20 pm

Carla , you are always the voice of reason and compassion. :-4

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:24 pm

Is there a reason the mom couldn't call after school hours? If she called back within half an hour it sounds like she has reasonable access to a phone. The question here is not who was calling it was how much did he react and how. There are different levels of behaviour that require different levels of response. I'm a strong believer in rules being followed at work and in schools. I probably would have overlooked the phone call if it was me but I don't know what this kid is normally like. Just because his mom is in Iraq doesn't mean he's a nice kid.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:28 pm

Don't know how overlooking the phone call jibes with being a strong believer in rules. I guess what I mean is that I would have looked for a solution. There is often a way to work something out that doesn't break the rules.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:29 pm

I can understand where Jives and LC are coming from. LC--If someone is driving with let's say a burned out headlight. Have you ever given them a warning or do you ticket each and every one of them? A man driving his in labor wife to the hospital. Does he get a ticket just the same as a person speeding just because they can? Jives? Are you saying you punish each and every child equally? Can you tell me that the child who normally is well behaved, but does something wrong is treated the same as the child who constantly disrupts the class? What I don't understand is why people feel we have the right to go to war to defend our country, but have no right to defend ourselves. I can understand this boy's hostility. Maybe he didn't choose the best way to show he was upset, but I feel if the administration had handled it as if he were human, LISTENED to him, it could have been avoided.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:37 pm

Peg wrote: I can understand where Jives and LC are coming from. LC--If someone is driving with let's say a burned out headlight. Have you ever given them a warning or do you ticket each and every one of them? A man driving his in labor wife to the hospital. Does he get a ticket just the same as a person speeding just because they can? Jives? Are you saying you punish each and every child equally? Can you tell me that the child who normally is well behaved, but does something wrong is treated the same as the child who constantly disrupts the class? What I don't understand is why people feel we have the right to go to war to defend our country, but have no right to defend ourselves. I can understand this boy's hostility. Maybe he didn't choose the best way to show he was upset, but I feel if the administration had handled it as if he were human, LISTENED to him, it could have been avoided.i said i felt compassion for this boy and his Mom. and yes, i have some discretion. and i use it. i don't care about traffic crap. i am more concerned with real crime, abuse, drugs, et al. you and i Peg often butt heads but come to some understanding. my only point is that i know why schools enforce the cell phone rule. i have every respect for this child and his mother. but he has to do it on his own time.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:40 pm

Released 24 minutes ago. See there is more to the history of this story than the story told by the boy.

School Reduces Suspension Over Iraq Call

Saturday May 7, 2005 8:01 PM

COLUMBUS, Ga. (AP) - Following hundreds of angry phone calls and e-mails, school officials in this Army base city have reduced a suspension imposed on a student who wouldn't give up his cell phone while talking to his mom - a sergeant on duty in Iraq.

The angry calls about the boy's suspension got so bad at one point that secretaries had to take their phones off the hook, assistant principal Alfred Parham said.

Kevin Francois, a 17-year-old junior at Spencer High School, was suspended for 10 days for disorderly conduct Wednesday after a teacher told him to give up his cell phone outside the school during his lunch break and he refused, the teen said.

The boy said he had not expected the call from his mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, who left in January for a one-year tour.

The teacher says the confrontation happened in a hallway, not outside, and that Francois never said the call was with his mother.

The Muscogee County School District Board of Education allows students to have cell phones in school but not to use them during school hours.

The punishment for violating that policy is that the phone is confiscated until the end of the day. But Francois was suspended for cursing and being defiant, said Parham. That was extended to 10 because ``he did not want to accept the three-day suspension and to agree that he would not use the cell phone openly or curse.''

``We are empathetic to all students whose parents serve in the armed forces ... (but) we do have behavior standards which we uphold,'' said Superintendent John A. Phillips Jr.

On Friday, the school district reduced the suspension to three days, which will allow Francois to return to school Monday, after officials met with him, the guardian who cares for him while his mother is out of the country, and a representative of her unit.

``People are fussing at us, calling us names,'' said assistant principal Wendell Turner.

``We are the school that serves Fort Benning,'' Turner said. ``We're well aware of students with parents overseas.''

Parham said, however, that Francois' behavior at school has been ``a chronic problem.''

And Francois added: ``I'm not a golden child and I've been wrong, but I was right this time.''

From Guardian Unlimited

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:47 pm

lady cop wrote: *hug* nobody has to agree with me, that's fine, but i am pissed at the abuse of Jives by a newbie. as it should p*ss you off.

I don't think Jives will mind though. He can hush anyone up with words...and turn them into a babbling moron.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:52 pm

lady cop wrote: i said i felt compassion for this boy and his Mom. and yes, i have some discretion. and i use it. i don't care about traffic crap. i am more concerned with real crime, abuse, drugs, et al. you and i Peg often butt heads but come to some understanding. my only point is that i know why schools enforce the cell phone rule. i have every respect for this child and his mother. but he has to do it on his own time.

But the message I am seeing is that rules are rules and must be followed no exceptions. If the is the case, petty traffic crap is the same as real crime.

He wasn't expecting the call from his mother, and should have had the phone turned off. That much I agree with. "He never said the call was from his mother". Was he given the chance to say it? I was a really good kid in and out of school, but I cannot say that I wouldn't have become defiant and cursed had I been in his situation. I wouldn't have accepted the 3 day suspension either if I were him.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:53 pm

Koan, thankyou for that report! and Hotsauce, thankyou...i think the babbling moron has exposed themselves for same! :wah:

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:14 pm

Damn. From a questionable action by a teacher to blaming specific people for wars. I don't think I've ever seen a thread take such an incredible swing.

Going back to the actual topic: I would have to say the school went a bit overboard. Without knowing the whole story, I tried to put myself in everyone's shoes. The student, the teacher, and the mother. As the mom, I'd be highly pissed at this school for any reprimand given.

Yes, there are rules, and then there are exceptions to rules. When we totally embrace the "zero tolerance" laws cropping up, we are saying that no situation, no circumstance is exceptional. I'd say this one is.

The student has had behavior issues before? No wonder. his dad is dead, his mom is fighting a war halfway around the world, and he's living with some "guardian". I'd be pretty fu*ked up myself.

I believe in the enforcement of rules and laws, I believe in kids being accountable. I also believe in a kids right to talk to his mother whenever he needs or wants to. This was not a situation where a class was being disrupted, and to be totally frank, I wouldn't care much if it was. What would be the worst thing to happen? He missed 15 minutes of an algebra class? Is this going to undermine his future? No.

There are rules, and there are exceptions. I have always said that if courts and lawmakers could look at each individual case, there's all sorts of things we could do differently as a society to improve the system. It's just not financiallcy feasible. But it should be the way things are handled.

Each case represents a person. Someone mentioned stealing. Is it some crack-head out stealing to buy more dope, or is it a homeless mom stealing a loaf of bread so her kids don't starve? Yes, a law has been broken in either case, but should we treat both the same? Of course not.

Post by **spot** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:46 pm

SILVER SHE FOXXE wrote: Tripe? Tripe? Did ya have to look that one up in the dictionary?Do you know, Silver, they still serve it at a restaurant half a mile from here, with onions and gravy and mashed potato.

Do try to come back, it might seem rocky on occasion but it's truly not bad tempered often. You'll make friends, just like I have.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:51 pm

SILVER SHE FOXXE wrote: Tripe? Tripe? Did ya have to look that one up in the dictionary?

I stumbled on this forum room today and thought it would be nice to join because of freedom of speach...I wrote down a few thoughts and sent them on their way into cyberspace...Two people replied and agreed with me...within no time at all...and then all of a sudden...the walls came crumbling down...

I've taken the past few minutes to re-read from the first submission to the last and lo and behold I still am of the impression that there are more of us who feel the boy was treated unjustly than there are those of you who think that all rules are to be followed to the letter.

I have one observation...if all the rules made my men were followed to the letter then perhaps ms. lady cop would be working in another profession as there would be no need for cops...right?

I came in the forum, voiced my opinion in this free society and was frowned upon for my opinion and counter comments and called a newbie...it's ok, I was the newbie...but you're only a newbie once...and trust me, I quickly learned what this forum is all about...there are a certain few who do not like anyone new attacking the norm and that's fine...but everyone has a right to their opinion and I will apologize for the attack, however, I still believe that rules can and are made to be bent in special circumstances and they are all thru life...and I'm not going to start here and give examples...I don't care what the situation is/was...If it was me and I only had one parent left in this world and they called me from Iraq I'd do the same thing...it's not like they are sitting around a bar over there with time on their hands to call back in half an hour...some of them wait hours to get their turn on a phone....

Now I've said my peace...newbie as I was...I'm not a newbie anymore...and am wise to the ways of this site...and fear not, I won't be ruffling any feathers any further...I'm packing up my opinions and movin on!!!
that's convenient, but a canard.

this is the classic rhetorical path. make a statement. some people agree with it. some people disagree with it. because not everyone agrees with it, those who disagree are labeled as 'attackers'. because you are apparently a helpless innocent, and can't handle having others attack your ideas, you claim others are trying to quell your freedom of speech (they are not). Because you then claim that freedom of speech isn't 'allowed' here, you claim to take the high road, and run away.

well, let me be the first to welcome you not just to ForumGarden, but to The Real World.

stay a bit. rant all you want, we'll just make more. or something like that.

Post by **spot** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:54 pm

anastrophe wrote: stay a bit. rant all you want, we'll just make more. or something like that.Don't let him upset you, Silver, he's had a bad day, he's a bit tired and emotional. Try a different thread, perhaps.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:57 pm

spot wrote: Don't let him upset you, Silver, he's had a bad day, he's a bit tired and emotional. Try a different thread, perhaps.
ad hominem, always one of the lowest forms of rhetoric. try making a cogent argument, it can be so much more satisfying!

Post by **spot** » Sat May 07, 2005 2:00 pm

anastrophe wrote: ad hominem, always one of the lowest forms of rhetoric. try making a cogent argument, it can be so much more satisfying!You just accused the poor girl of the lie direct! - how can you complain of ad hominem attacks after that?