Benefits - how long is acceptable?

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:14 am

My disabled brother is being made to work or having his benefits cut, this has made me pretty angry today.

I know several people living nearby who have been unemployed for years with absolutely nothing wrong with them. To say there are no jobs is just laughable as we have employed hundreds of eastern block workers in my area this past two years. So my question is - How long should we pay benefits to able bodied people?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:36 am

buttercup;631590 wrote: My disabled brother is being made to work or having his benefits cut, this has made me pretty angry today.

I know several people living nearby who have been unemployed for years with absolutely nothing wrong with them. To say there are no jobs is just laughable as we have employed hundreds of eastern block workers in my area this past two years. So my question is - How long should we pay benefits to able bodied people?

It's a difficult question - it seems to be true to say that it may be financially better not to work, for some people. There may be no incentive to change when that is so. Perhaps one of the past communist leaders could be resurrected to be a "Benefits Tzar":

http://www.hrono.ru/dokum/193_dok/cnst1936.html#12

КОНСТИТУЦИЯ (ОСНОВНОЙ ЗАКОН)

СОЮЗА СОВЕТСКИХ СОЦИАЛИСТИЧЕСКИХ РЕСПУБЛИК

[...]

Глава I

ОБЩЕСТВЕННОЕ УСТРОЙСТВО

[...]

Статья 12. Труд в СССР является обязанностью и делом чести каждого способного к труду гражданина по принципу: «кто не работает, тот не ест».

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:36 am

Aww..the jobs are out there..if you are willing to look. When I was not working full time (for about 2 years) I took part time jobs to suppliment my income till I found a full time job that I liked. Some folks do not want to look for jobs they feel are some how beneath them. Good grief.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:42 am

Bill Sikes;631617 wrote: It's a difficult question - it seems to be true to say that it may be financially better not to work, for some people. There may be no incentive to change when that is so. Perhaps one of the past communist leaders could be resurrected to be a "Benefits Tzar":

http://www.hrono.ru/dokum/193_dok/cnst1936.html#12

КОНСТИТУЦИЯ (ОСНОВНОЙ ЗАКОН)

СОЮЗА СОВЕТСКИХ СОЦИАЛИСТИЧЕСКИХ РЕСПУБЛИК

[...]

Глава I

ОБЩЕСТВЕННОЕ УСТРОЙСТВО

[...]

Статья 12. Труд в СССР является обязанностью и делом чести каждого способного к труду гражданина по принципу: «кто не работает, тот не ест».

Bill i cant read Russian :wah:

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:43 am

Marie5656;631618 wrote: Aww..the jobs are out there..if you are willing to look. When I was not working full time (for about 2 years) I took part time jobs to suppliment my income till I found a full time job that I liked. Some folks do not want to look for jobs they feel are some how beneath them. Good grief.

So how long do you think they should receive benefits?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:46 am

buttercup;631623 wrote: Bill i cant read Russian :wah:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:50 am

Bill Sikes;631632 wrote: http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

damn i thought i'd found an easy way for me to understand spots most genius of posts but no can do :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:50 am

Well aint you the one just full of lil gems, thanks Bill.

How long do you personally think able bodied people should be paid benefits?

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:56 am

buttercup;631637 wrote: Well aint you the one just full of lil gems, thanks Bill.

How long do you personally think able bodied people should be paid benefits?

how about the mentally ill people :-3

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:56 am

buttercup;631637 wrote: How long do you personally think able bodied people should be paid benefits?

For as long as there is a genuine need. "Genuine need" IMO does not include "I can't be bothered to get a proper legitimate job" or "I'll work in the black economy and claim benefits too"

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:59 am

jimbo;631645 wrote: how about the mentally ill people :-3

To clarify - i see mentally ill people as having a disability that prevents them from working.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:01 am

Bill Sikes;631646 wrote: For as long as there is a genuine need. "Genuine need" IMO does not include "I can't be bothered to get a proper legitimate job" or "I'll work in the black economy and claim benefits too"

Ok your going to have to clarify that one for me Bill. Its the genuine need im not getting. An able bodied person who is able to work (what is genuine need for benefits there?)

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:11 am

buttercup;631651 wrote: Ok your going to have to clarify that one for me Bill. Its the genuine need im not getting. An able bodied person who is able to work (what is genuine need for benefits there?)

There may be a genuine need where, for instance jobs are not available, or the only jobs available do not pay enough to support the person working.

I await your next statement or question with quite considerable interest!

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:20 am

I dont know what country you are in Bill but there are plenty of jobs here so lets put that to the side. Low paying jobs is next, most people have a full time job & a part time job. To say that job does not pay me enough to consider coming off benefits is proof in itself that benefit payments are too high. Many eastern workers are over here earning minimum wage & yet still able to send money home to family in their own country's. How is this possible ? Obviously because it is enough to live on.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:22 am

buttercup;631663 wrote: benefit payments are too high

Thare's the rub.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:27 am

That just heightens my total disrespect for those that would sponge off the system, have these people no morals? What about self esteem?

Anyway its still not answering the question, given the power how long would you pay them benefits?

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:44 am

I think all people that are fit for work should be working, if they say they can not find a job, then put them to work on a voluntary basis, if they don't attend stop the benefits, 3 strike system, on the 3rd time messing up, benefit's stop.

Most people will realise if they are working the same hours for their benefits, most of them will find a paid job for the same hours to be paid for the hours worked, which would in most cases be more than the benefits.

Just read that back to myself, if you understand that, WELL DONE :wah:

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:57 am

buttercup;631670 wrote: given the power how long would you pay them benefits?

Difficult. If I do the first thing that springs to mind, to stop benefits completely after a number of jobs have been refused, then there would, I suspect, be many more "social problems" than there are now. What do I do about unemployed home owners? Stop paying their mortgage? What about unemployed people with children? Confiscate the children? Give them food and clothing vouchers, or arrange some other system to make sure the child receives the worth of the payments?

For the sake of simplicity, assuming a single unemployed person with no dependants in rented accommodation, I should be tempted to reduce benefits to a minimum (noting that action on landlords concerning the price of accommodation will be needed as an adjunct), but not cease payments altogether. I might consider dis-incentives (?) to staying "on benefit", though.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:17 am

I don't think there is a way to really set an exact limit on how long a person should receive benefits. There's too many factors to consider. The illness or injury, the possible cures, healing factors, pain tolerance, etc. I've seen people denied benefits, such as a guy with 3 massive heart attacks, yet an alcoholic receives them. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it? I believe some could be retrained to do another job that they could handle with their health factors, but who pays for the training, what is the job market for the jobs they could do, etc.?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:37 am

Peg;631694 wrote: I don't think there is a way to really set an exact limit on how long a person should receive benefits. There's too many factors to consider. The illness or injury

Please allow me to clarify - I was not talking of disabled people below.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:21 am

Peg this thread is for 'able bodied people who refuse to work' & if they should receive benefits & if so for how long.

I had started another thread about benefit payments for disabled today & its easy to see how you confused the two, sorry about that :-4

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:20 pm

I know a guy who is very able to work, but why should he? His mommy gives him money every month, his sister pays his bills for him, and the government gives him at least food stamps. His mom paid child support for him to his ex wife. He can climb trees, work on roofs, walk all over town, etc. He will proudly tell you how he has no need to work. He had a very good job years and years ago working in a coal mine but got fired for drinking on the job. Our welfare department continues to give him food stamps and God knows what else as long as he claims to look for work. He puts friends names down and claim they have a business, etc. They never check! The ONLY thing keeping him from working is he cannot and will not set a beer down long enough to become a productive citizen. The only way this guy should receive any type of benefits is if he worked at least a part time, minimum wage job, did community service, etc. In the meantime, people who really do need a helping hand, which is what our system is meant for, are denied benefits while this guy sucks it dry. :-5