Okay I know there are alot of smart people here.

[Tater Tazz]

Can anyone explain this?

There is probably some mild osseous foraminal stenosis at c6-c7 on the left.

Asymmetric uncovertebral spurring on the right at c3-c4 is present.

There is probably functional osseous fusion through the middle of the interosseous spacer, with interiegitation of callus in growth, although linear lucent seperation may persist.

come on guys and girls I really need your help before tommorow. This doc is real jerk and he is making it harder for me to find out things. I can not even access my catscan disk you have to be a doctor to access. CR*P! Thanks

[Nomad]

Stephen Hawking says because gravity is attractive, matter always warps spacetime so that light rays bend toward eachother.

[abbey]

Sounds like you could use some bedrest!

[along-for-the-ride]

Tater Tazz;646666 wrote: Can anyone explain this?

There is probably some mild osseous foraminal stenosis at c6-c7 on the left.

Asymmetric uncovertebral spurring on the right at c3-c4 is present.

There is probably functional osseous fusion through the middle of the interosseous spacer, with interiegitation of callus in growth, although linear lucent seperation may persist.

come on guys and girls I really need your help before tommorow. This doc is real jerk and he is making it harder for me to find out things. I can not even access my catscan disk you have to be a doctor to access. CR*P! Thanks


I do not understand your post, Tater Tazz. I may not be smart, but atleast I'm honest.

[Patsy Warnick]

Tater

you should be having neck pain - head aches - perhaps numbness tingling into your arms.

Have you had physical therapy for this condition? or is this your first DR appt since your tests?

You can look up all these latin terms on the computer - probably won't help you.

Sounds like an old injury to your neck that is now being irritated or you re-injured that area. Spur - indicates a old injury - did I read fusion? - your cervical area fused itself which is common with a old injury healing itself.

I'm interested in what your DR recommends.

Patsy

[Tater Tazz]

Patsy Warnick;646748 wrote: Tater

you should be having neck pain - head aches - perhaps numbness tingling into your arms.

Have you had physical therapy for this condition? or is this your first DR appt since your tests?

You can look up all these latin terms on the computer - probably won't help you.

Sounds like an old injury to your neck that is now being irritated or you re-injured that area. Spur - indicates a old injury - did I read fusion? - your cervical area fused itself which is common with a old injury healing itself.

I'm interested in what your DR recommends.

Patsy


I have had two cervical fusions and nothing but problems since then. The plate and screw slipped on the first one and on the second fusion the screw moved two weeks after surgery. I have all those systems except headaches.

[Tater Tazz]

Here is the deal. I have had two cervical fusions done in a year and a half. The first surgery the plate or disk slipped. Then I needed the disk under it done. Two weeks after the surgery, the surgeon said he would moniter the screw. So, he sent me for a cat scan and that was on it. I have been to other surgeons and they told me he needs to look at the screw. He seems not to care what other doctors say. He treats me like I am lieing. I have constant pain in the neck, shoulders, arms and tingling feeling. I also found out I have no cord signal at t7-t11. This means there is spinal cord injury or inflamation of the spinal cord. He did not tell me this. I also have tumors on my spine. They should be bein. Another surgeon told me this. One of the lumbar disk is also starting to buldge. The pain goes down my whold back. I asked him to release me, he told me no. I fall alot now because my leg is starting to give out more than it use to. I know I had to have the first surgery or I would not be here and I am grateful I had it done and I am still alive. I just do not want to spend the rest of my life like this. I wanted to get info before tommorow so I could know if he is lieing to me. Thank you everyone for leting me vent. Tazz

[Tater Tazz]

Wendybird;646765 wrote: Damn! I thought it was Hollandaise............ :-5


what?

[SuzyB]

Tater Tazz;646752 wrote: Here is the deal. I have had two cervical fusions done in a year and a half. The first surgery the plate or disk slipped. Then I needed the disk under it done. Two weeks after the surgery, the surgeon said he would moniter the screw. So, he sent me for a cat scan and that was on it. I have been to other surgeons and they told me he needs to look at the screw. Why are they saying that he needs to look at the screw?

He seems not to care what other doctors say. Dr's are terrible, they don't like to be told anything!

He treats me like I am lieing. I have constant pain in the neck, shoulders, arms and tingling feeling. I also found out I have no cord signal at t7-t11. This means there is spinal cord injury or inflamation of the spinal cord. This often happens with trauma or an old injury, this may not come back

He did not tell me this. I also have tumors on my spine. They should be bein. If I was you I would be asking the size location and how they know that they are benign, I would also asking them to do a test on them to be sure

Another surgeon told me this. One of the lumbar disk is also starting to buldge. Quite often when you have back a back injury this can happen as it put's more pressure on the rest of your back, although it can be painful a bulge will often correct itself

The pain goes down my whold back. I asked him to release me, he told me no. I fall alot now because my leg is starting to give out more than it use to. How is it affecting your leg? What nerve is trapped?

I know I had to have the first surgery or I would not be here and I am grateful I had it done and I am still alive. I just do not want to spend the rest of my life like this. I wanted to get info before tommorow so I could know if he is lieing to me. Thank you everyone for leting me vent. Tazz
I hope you don't have to spend the rest of your life in pain, but to be honest you may have to, once you start having back problems and surgery, it often gets worse.



I hope you find some solution

[spot]

It's the words that get in the way but I expect you know a lot of them already if you've been treated so often. I know nothing at all about doctoring, be warned.

osseous: to do with bone.

foraminal stenosis: At every level of the spine the nerves exit through a small canal. This canal is called the foramen or foraminal canal. Foraminal stenosis is a narrowing of this canal.

c6-c7: in the cervical part of the spine, from your neck down to between your shoulderblades. c1 is at the top, down to c7, it's the first seven vertebra. Below that is the big curve of your spine and that's called the thoracic area.

Constriction of the nerve roots leaving the spine in the foraminal canal is typically caused by bone spurs, a herniated or bulging disc, scar tissue, arthritis or ligament thickening. Foraminal Stenosis can also be caused by enlargement of a joint (the uncinate process) in the spinal canal.

Unlike many other back or neck conditions, most conservative treatments for foraminal stenosis (such as pain medications) are unlikely to be of much benefit. Most often, patients elect back surgery to relieve pressure in the nerve root from foraminal stenosis.

Foraminal Stenosis can produce a type of pain called radicular pain which is pain that radiates into the lower extremity (the thigh, calf, and may spread to the foot) directly along the course of a specific spinal nerve root. It is often deep, steady and reproducible with certain activities such as sitting or walking, and follows the involved area of distribution of the leg covered by the specific nerve. It can be accompanied by numbness and tingling, muscle weakness and loss of specific reflexes.

Asymmetric uncovertebral spurring: there is a bone spur. The "Asymmetric" bit means that it's not mirrored left and right, it's more on one side than the other.

functional osseous fusion: two bones that ought to slide around independently have glued together.

interosseous spacer: between the bones there's meant to be soft tissue to lubricate the sliding of the bones.

interdigitation of callus: "an interlocking of parts by fingerlike processes" - cross all your fingers of both hands together and you'll get the idea. The callus is hardened material which ought to be soft.

linear lucent separation: lighter lines show up on the image he's looking at. "linear lucent separation may persist" perhaps means "it might not be quite as bad is it could have been" or maybe he's suggesting there could be a stress facture there. Anyway, it's light lines on his picture.

[Tater Tazz]

Just got a email from a doctor out of state on the cat scan I had.

Told me my questions should be asked to my doctor. Great he tells me nothing.

Thanks suzy. I have issues with this surgeon not telling me anything at all. I ask a question and he does not anwser. I expect to get no info from him today. I just want my records and all my xrays. I have been refered to someone else, but they could not get me in until august. I really believe it was the mess up on the first surgery that is causing all this. The tumors, the doctor said alot of people have them not to worry about them.

[Tater Tazz]

spot;646802 wrote: It's the words that get in the way but I expect you know a lot of them already if you've been treated so often. I know nothing at all about doctoring, be warned.

osseous: to do with bone.

foraminal stenosis: At every level of the spine the nerves exit through a small canal. This canal is called the foramen or foraminal canal. Foraminal stenosis is a narrowing of this canal.

c6-c7: in the cervical part of the spine, from your neck down to between your shoulderblades. c1 is at the top, down to c7, it's the first seven vertebra. Below that is the big curve of your spine and that's called the thoracic area.

Constriction of the nerve roots leaving the spine in the foraminal canal is typically caused by bone spurs, a herniated or bulging disc, scar tissue, arthritis or ligament thickening. Foraminal Stenosis can also be caused by enlargement of a joint (the uncinate process) in the spinal canal.

Unlike many other back or neck conditions, most conservative treatments for foraminal stenosis (such as pain medications) are unlikely to be of much benefit. Most often, patients elect back surgery to relieve pressure in the nerve root from foraminal stenosis.

Foraminal Stenosis can produce a type of pain called radicular pain which is pain that radiates into the lower extremity (the thigh, calf, and may spread to the foot) directly along the course of a specific spinal nerve root. It is often deep, steady and reproducible with certain activities such as sitting or walking, and follows the involved area of distribution of the leg covered by the specific nerve. It can be accompanied by numbness and tingling, muscle weakness and loss of specific reflexes.

Asymmetric uncovertebral spurring: there is a bone spur. The "Asymmetric" bit means that it's not mirrored left and right, it's more on one side than the other.

functional osseous fusion: two bones that ought to slide around independently have glued together.

interosseous spacer: between the bones there's meant to be soft tissue to lubricate the sliding of the bones.

interdigitation of callus: "an interlocking of parts by fingerlike processes" - cross all your fingers of both hands together and you'll get the idea. The callus is hardened material which ought to be soft.

linear lucent separation: lighter lines show up on the image he's looking at. "linear lucent separation may persist" perhaps means "it might not be quite as bad is it could have been" or maybe he's suggesting there could be a stress facture there. Anyway, it's light lines on his picture.


You are the greatest! Thank you so much! Now I no why that doctor that emailed me told me to consult my doctor. Thanks spot.

[pinkchick]

Why won't your doctor explain it so you can understand??

[Tater Tazz]

pinkchick;646810 wrote: Why won't your doctor explain it so you can understand??
I really do not know why. He is a typical surgeon I guess. I allready have had two nurologist look at mri's and they said he needs to look at the screw and disk under it. He probably does not like me going to other doctors. But, this is my right to go to other doctors. I have even sent my mri's out of state and they say the same thing. He made a mistake on the first surgery, and I think he thinks I might sue him. All I want is to be fixed I keep telling him this, time to move on.

[pinkchick]

Tater Tazz;646812 wrote: I really do not know why. He is a typical surgeon I guess. I allready have had two nurologist look at mri's and they said he needs to look at the screw and disk under it. He probably does not like me going to other doctors. But, this is my right to go to other doctors. I have even sent my mri's out of state and they say the same thing. He made a mistake on the first surgery, and I think he thinks I might sue him. All I want is to be fixed I keep telling him this, time to move on.


Is there no way you can change your surgeon??

[Tater Tazz]

pinkchick;646815 wrote: Is there no way you can change your surgeon??


Last week I asked him to release me, he said no! No explanation or anything, just no. I did get refered to another surgeon by my primary care doctor, but the appointment is not until august, then he will decide if he wants to take me as a patient. Because mistakes were made, no-one really wants me, they say see your surgeon and tell him this.

[pinkchick]

OMG that's awful.... I'm so sorry that you're going thru so much pain:-4 :-4 :-4

[along-for-the-ride]

Tater Tazz;646804 wrote: You are the greatest! Thank you so much! Now I no why that doctor that emailed me told me to consult my doctor. Thanks spot.


I agree...thanks for the explanations.

[Tater Tazz]

Okay, here it is. I have to go for a bone scan tommorow, because my surgeon finnally told me that the fusion has not fused at all. The bone scan will tell more. I go back to him in 3 months if he thinks that I can wait that long. If not, I go to him earlier. There is still hope that it could start fusing, but if it does not, it's another surgery. Just thought you all might like to know.

[SuzyB]

Tater Tazz;647194 wrote: Okay, here it is. I have to go for a bone scan tommorow, because my surgeon finnally told me that the fusion has not fused at all. The bone scan will tell more. I go back to him in 3 months if he thinks that I can wait that long. If not, I go to him earlier. There is still hope that it could start fusing, but if it does not, it's another surgery. Just thought you all might like to know.


Normally over time the body does the work of a surgeon and it will fuse together, but if you are in pain then it's better sorted sooner rather than later. Did this not show on the mri/cat scan??

[Tater Tazz]

It did, he just did not tell me until yesterday. He took xrays in his office then should me those and wanted me to go for bone scan. I know I have tumors down my spine, he might be checking that too. I really do not know.

[Tater Tazz]

I went for the bone scan and my pictures on the whole spine and across the back lite up like a christmas tree. This means this is all hot spots with something wrong. I will not know the results until the surgeon calls me or I go get the results from the hospital. I will probably pick up the results from hospital on thursday myself. I do not like to wait. I allready know my fusion did not fuse, but I think there is a little bit more going on. Next friday I go to my regular doctor and I want the results for him.

[wenwest]

Tater Tazz;649809 wrote: I went for the bone scan and my pictures on the whole spine and across the back lite up like a christmas tree. This means this is all hot spots with something wrong. I will not know the results until the surgeon calls me or I go get the results from the hospital. I will probably pick up the results from hospital on thursday myself. I do not like to wait. I allready know my fusion did not fuse, but I think there is a little bit more going on. Next friday I go to my regular doctor and I want the results for him.


I am not a doc, just an operating room nurse with similar pathology and this is just my opinion and what I've learned from many years of nursing in the OR....so...........My first fusion did not "fuse" and as long as there is movement, it never would fuse the way it is supposed to. This is called pseudoarthrodesis or non-union------movement where there should be solid bone. Reasons for this can be anything from operator error (my case---surgeon was stripped of his license) or more commonly smoking. This is not an absolute but smoking will put you at a higher risk of non-union than a non-smoker. Or it can happen for unknown reasons. My fusion is in my lower back but this info also applies to anywhere in the spine.

You have every right to get as many opinions as you want and I would strongly encourage you to do so. I would also strongly encourage you to look your doctor up online for information about any complaints to your state's medical review board. I so wish I would have done so. In my case, the pain was unrelenting, my former surgeon lied to me and said I WAS fused when I was not and blew me off.

I saw another doc who spoke with me at length--an hour---to explain why I had to have the whole thing re-done and also be fused from the front this time too---a 2-level 360 degree fusion. I came out of his office upset that more surgery was in my future but grateful to have finally found a good surgeon who would be open and answer my questions. Non-union is not something you can sue for, however, not diagnosing it, and then if you suffer permanent disability......that's another issue. I don't know your situation but when I found out the first surgeon was operating on me while impaired and high on Demerol, I was told it would take an out of state surgeon to be an expert witness because no one in the state would get involved. There were so many people suing this guy that I decided to move on and let God deal with him. I am one of the fortunate ones......I went back to work in the job I love. Although I will have pain everyday for the rest of my life, it is very manageable and I am very grateful.



Foraminal stenosis noted in your report means the canal through which the spinal cord passes through has narrowed, there is scar tissue. Bone spurs hurt---having these things plus the failed fusion means it would be surprising if you did NOT have pain. Do you also have other symptoms-----numbness or tingling in fingers or hands, headaches, blurred vision? These are significant and should be reported to your doc. The bulge in the lower portion of your spine also needs to be evaluated. Sometimes nothing needs to be done and it resolves itself. However if your cervical (neck) fusion is not solid, you will have instability and this can cause problems in other areas.

Feel free to message me. Hope you get the answers you need to make an informed decision----knowledge is power!

Sincerely,

Wen

[Tater Tazz]

Thank you so much! I had a bone scan done, I was told by my surgeon before the bone scan I am not fusioning. I do have pseudarthrosis. I have tried to get another surgeon, but no-one else will take me. They tell me to go back to my surgeon. If my surgeon would sign a release it would be alot easier. He told me no. So, now I wait, the surgeon still thinks it might fuse. When other surgeons look at it, they tell me to tell him immediatly. I think I will call my attorney this week, I am getting so tired of this. I found out yesterday from a friend who is a nurse, this surgeon is really not a nice person. That is all I am going to say about that. Thank you again, I hope you too feel better!:)

[Tater Tazz]

The other symtoms I have are: Tingling in both arms and fingers, can not fell half of my face and I fall alot more now that I had the second surgery. I have two teeth right now that I should be in really bad pain, and I do not feel them at all, my friend the dentist can not beleive I am in no pain. Maybe, it is a good thing I can not feel them. I also get pain from back of the neck that goes down the entire back. Working is effecting it, but, I know it is better to keep moving or it will get worse. I hope it does start to fuse. I know smoking is a factor , The first surgery I quit for 6 months until the pain was so bad then I started smoking again. The first surgery fell apart and damaged the disk under it. My surgeon kept telling me it was healing for 1 year he told me this. I found out from another surgeon that the disk or plate had slipped. My surgeon is aware that I smoke because of the pain, makes me relax more. He told me that it may prolong the fusing but another nero surgeon said it should really not matter if it is not fused by now, it needs to be fixed.

[The Rob]

Tater Tazz;646752 wrote: Here is the deal. I have had two cervical fusions done in a year and a half. The first surgery the plate or disk slipped. Then I needed the disk under it done. Two weeks after the surgery, the surgeon said he would moniter the screw. So, he sent me for a cat scan and that was on it. I have been to other surgeons and they told me he needs to look at the screw. He seems not to care what other doctors say. He treats me like I am lieing. I have constant pain in the neck, shoulders, arms and tingling feeling. I also found out I have no cord signal at t7-t11. This means there is spinal cord injury or inflamation of the spinal cord. He did not tell me this. I also have tumors on my spine. They should be bein. Another surgeon told me this. One of the lumbar disk is also starting to buldge. The pain goes down my whold back. I asked him to release me, he told me no. I fall alot now because my leg is starting to give out more than it use to. I know I had to have the first surgery or I would not be here and I am grateful I had it done and I am still alive. I just do not want to spend the rest of my life like this. I wanted to get info before tommorow so I could know if he is lieing to me. Thank you everyone for leting me vent. Tazz


I haven't read any further yet, but wanted to say I'm sorry to learn of your trouble, Tazz. My wife is currently in the same boat although for a different area of the spine. She's had surgery, a spinal fusion, but the pain persists and she falls as well. It's an uphill battle to get someone to adequately diagnose and treat the root cause, but she keeps at it. I wish success soon for both of you.

[wenwest]

If this doctor will not "release" you from his care in writing, then you can release him yourself. No doctor can hold a patient hostage and prevent them from getting care elsewhere. However knowing how complicated your medical course has been, the surgeons you've seen probably are afraid of the liability issues that they no doubt could get involved with should your pain and pathology go from bad to worse.

I would not tell this doctor you are going to someone else until you get a full copy of all your medical and surgical records from him and the hospital where you've been operated on. Any patient can choose any doctor (within the limits of what your insurance will pay for, so check your policy and see who is on the list).

If you want to see another surgeon and have trouble due to still being under the care of the first one who did your surgery, write the first one a letter and release HIM from any further care of you. Send it by certified mail. If you are seeing an attorney, then follow whatever advice he gives you about this. Also remember that if this goes into some kind of litigation, do not post anything online about your medical situation.

Pediatrician Robert P. Lindeman assumed blogging about his malpractice case couldn’t come back to haunt him because he wrote under a pseudonym. But when jurors discovered he was Flea, the screen name for a popular medical blog, the trial ended the next day with Lindeman agreeing to pay a substantial settlement.

Boston Globe, Jun 07, 2007



Google "fire your doctor" and perhaps this will give you the information you need. The long and the short of it is that you hired your doctor, you can fire him!

[wenwest]

I know I already touched on the subject of firing your doctor in my last post but I wanted to be a bit more specific.

Doctors, especially surgeons can be quite intimidating. Even after 25 years of dealing with them in the OR on a daily basis, I find there are a few who can still get me a bit frazzled. Sometimes it's not a good fit personality-wise and other times, you just realize this person is not helping you, not being honest, or is making things worse. It does no good to burn any bridges or waste any more time and energy on a doctor who is not helping you.

Don't make an appointment or do this over the phone. A letter, diplomatic and to the point is the best way to handle the issue of firing your doctor. Doctors fire patients all the time. Patients have that right too.

Simply state you are changing from their practice to another, give the effective date, sign it, mail it by certified mail, you're done!

[Tater Tazz]

Here is the funny thing, I did not hire him, I was refered to him. You are right, now one will touch me when they look at the mris , cat scans and bone scan. My primary care doc. told me I have to be nice to my surgeon, he is going to be the only one who will touch me. This su*ks! I am really ready to just give up and leave it this way and stay in pain. No-one has said what would happen if I leave it alone. It just hurts like he*l. thanks peeps.

[RedGlitter]

Tazz, I don't think I ever asked you this, but how many other surgeons have you seen that refused you? I ask you this because if you've looked around to find one and they all said no, then that would be one thing...but if you're just going on what your doctor tells you, well, if he referred you to the surgeon, he's probably not going to be completely forthright with you and I wouldn't just go taking his word. I think I had told you before that many doctors are egotistical (often to our benefit) and like to take a challenge other doctors shun. The surgeon who removed my mom's lung was such a doctor. It was a very tricky operation and he pulled it off. I just cannot believe there isn't at least one doctor willing to help you somewhere. I think you're being sold a pack of fibs and that upsets me.

But...I may be wrong too. You're the one who would know how it is.

Find out what would happen if you did leave it alone. Get some extra opinions. And whatever you choose to do, know that I hope it works in your favor. I'm sorry you're in so much pain.

[Tater Tazz]

I have been to 6 surgeons allready, and I see another one in August. Pretty depressing they keep saying no.