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Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

i read this with great interest





what do you guys make of this is this the stepping stone from ape to man (well besides old jimbo that is ):thinking:





Small fossil skull has big implications for modern humans

By John Timmer | Published: August 08, 2007 - 12:02PM CT



Credit: Nature/National Museums of Kenya

F. Spoor and J. Reader.

Based on a quick reading of a text book or a short trip through a natural history museum, it's easy to think of the origin of modern humans as a linear trip through a series of progressively more human hominins. Biology is rarely that simple, so it's not really been much of a surprise that, over the past few decades, our picture of hominin evolution has changed as new fossils reveal a complicated tangle of overlapping species. Instead of a linear change where an entire population gradually transformed into a distinct species, hominins seem to have followed the pattern found elsewhere in biology, with new species arising as a subpopulation and coexisting with their relatives for long periods of time.

Today's issue of Nature will contain the latest example of some fossils that causes this sort of revision to our thinking, courtesy of a team that includes members of Kenya's Leakey family. First up is the fantastic skull shown at right. It's a nearly mature Homo erectus, and would be a fascinating find in its own right. It's shown on top of a more typical skull of the same species, which reveals that this individual was remarkably small for the species. This sort of variation is typical of gorillas, but does not occur in either humans or chimps. The authors suggest that it may represent a difference in size between the sexes.

The other unusual thing about the fossil is that it has features that are normally associated with Homo erectus fossils found in Asia. The study's authors argue that many of the characteristics that have been considered "Asian" are simply consequences of a difference in cranial size, rather than distinct features. Thus, they seem to be suggesting that all Homo erectus fossils belong to a single population, and that most variation within that population is simply due to differences in a single characteristic.

On its own, this fossil would be pretty notable, but it was accompanied by a jaw from a member of the species Homo habilis. Prior to these finds, habilis was thought to have gradually evolved into erectus on the population level, the sort of linear relationship termed "anagenetic" by scientists. Both of these fossils come with strong dating information, and they reveal that the two species overlapped in this region of Africa for at least a half-million years. This makes the linear relationship rather unlikely, and it suggests that erectus arose as an offshoot of the then-dominant habilis population.

Overall, it's hard to consider this revision a radical one. In most areas of biology, we've found that species originate by branching and diversification far more often than via an anagenetic process. The only reasons I can see for expecting entire populations to transform in a way that produces a linear progression of hominins lie in outdated notions of there being some sort of "progress" towards Homo sapiens.

Incidentally, for those of you wondering about the "hominin" designation, it's the modern term that arose once we realized that the orangutans and gorillas are outliers in the formerly used "hominid" group. Hominins exclude that branch, but include everything else along the route to both humans and chimps.

Nature, 2007. DOI: 10.1038/nature05986
Mia
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Post by Mia »

Interesting Jimbo, This bit caught my eye..." Homo erectus fossils "The mind boggles.:lips::wah:
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

Mia;678293 wrote: Interesting Jimbo, This bit caught my eye..." Homo erectus fossils "The mind boggles.:lips::wah:


whats that about gay excited cave men :D
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

without getting into a fight here with the bible bashing god squad mafia ,if this is the missing link and to me seems to prove man evolved from apes ,how does this affect your faith ,if god made man in his own image and yet here is proof that man evolved from apes as i see it :thinking::thinking:



as i said just want your opinions not get into fight :-6
RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

jimbo;678300 wrote: without getting into a fight here with the bible bashing god squad mafia ,if this is the missing link and to me seems to prove man evolved from apes ,how does this affect your faith ,if god made man in his own image and yet here is proof that man evolved from apes as i see it :thinking::thinking:



as i said just want your opinions not get into fight :-6


Well, I've never bought into that image thing as I think God is everything so cannot have one image. I also have never thought humans came from apes. I think if anything, we share similar behaviors to make us think- to show us that we aren't the most special species on the earth. That we're just part of it.

I admit the details are compelling though.
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

RedGlitter;678303 wrote: Well, I've never bought into that image thing as I think God is everything so cannot have one image. I also have never thought humans came from apes. I think if anything, we share similar behaviors to make us think- to show us that we aren't the most special species on the earth. That we're just part of it.

I admit the details are compelling though.


aww come on red take one look at me ....i am a silver-back no doubt about it my ancestors evolved :D





i think for me this is proof that man evolved ...not me looking like an ape the thread content :D
joesoap
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Post by joesoap »

Hi,

Very interesting; Could be related to this report I have to hand via the University of Charlton mires? "Feral Children Sighted at Lowick

Reported sightings of feral children in the Lowick area have been on the increase over the past two months. The children dirty, naked and possibly numbering up to thirty are alleged to be living in nearby woods in what locals refer to as ' the rats nest'. Being nocturnal, they congregate nightly around the Main Street litter bin to commence their feeding frenzy of easy pickings, leaving a trail of havoc and destruction. Local woman, Delores Swyngge-Bridges reported fifteen sightings in a single night. " It got so bad that I got the gun out. I winged one of them while he was half in the bin, reaching for what turned out to be a discarded bar of Caramac." After letting out several high pitched squeals, the child finished the Caramac, and curled into a defensive ball before taking the opportunity to flee on all fours. It is Ms.Swyngge- Bridges assumption that the children are being raised by a family group of Hedgehogs in the village":confused:

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The Rob
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Post by The Rob »

Humans did not evolve from apes. Both species diverged from a common ancestor. A subtle distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

I, Rob;678336 wrote: Humans did not evolve from apes. Both species diverged from a common ancestor. A subtle distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.




any chance of a bit more info :thinking:





very interesting point :-6
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Uncle Fester
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Post by Uncle Fester »

As an avid collector of fossils I have all the proof that we evolved from something and NOT created






IF YOU CAN'T SAY GOOD ABOUT SOME ONE , KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT





Did you know that too much chocolate shrinks your clothes



http://www.theparanormalcrypt.org/portal.php
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[love]light
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Post by [love]light »

I have always believed in evolution, but my basic Intro to Biology class several years ago absolutely convinced me. There is just no denying it people. Jesus freaks and all, you need to open your eyes, read the facts, and accept it. We are essentially apes. If it offends your sense of "human" egocentric pride, I apologize. I just pass on the facts.
The most important things in life are:

laughter, love, and a healthy appreciation for the dark side!





Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

Uncle Fester;678627 wrote: As an avid collector of fossils I have all the proof that we evolved from something and NOT created




duh dah .... bingo you got it right :-6



'[love wrote: light;678631']I have always believed in evolution, but my basic Intro to Biology class several years ago absolutely convinced me. There is just no denying it people. Jesus freaks and all, you need to open your eyes, read the facts, and accept it. We are essentially apes. If it offends your sense of "human" egocentric pride, I apologize. I just pass on the facts.




i agree :-6







this has a few f words in but you get the picture :wah:









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JacksDad
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Post by JacksDad »

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Uncle Fester
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Post by Uncle Fester »

JacksDad;678973 wrote:


Silly sod , that's jimbo when he had hair :wah::wah:






IF YOU CAN'T SAY GOOD ABOUT SOME ONE , KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT





Did you know that too much chocolate shrinks your clothes



http://www.theparanormalcrypt.org/portal.php
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

Uncle Fester;679090 wrote: Silly sod , that's jimbo when he had hair :wah::wah:




very good uncle :wah::wah:
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

I don't get the controversy. From my pov there's no conflict between the two theories.
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