tony blair has today announced that ID cards (paid for by each card-carrier, not the government) are to become law in the UK. Reasons / excuses given include the increase of `identity fraud` and `terrorism`.
However, there is no proof whatever that the use of ID cards would stop any fanatical suicide terrorist from still creating mayhem on the scale of 11 September 2001 ("9/11"). Many critics, from Civil Liberty groups and elsewhere, suspect that this is merely a smokescreen to keep greater tabs on the population as a whole and to be able to keep people`s private records all in one place to be accessed by government and security forces as required.
Whatever next, ID `chips` in baby`s brain from birth?
I`ve said this some where before in another thread but why should i have to carry an ID card i was born a bred here in the UK i have no crimminal record i`m not a terrorist it`s the illegal immigrants that need to be tracked and records kept up to date .We had old captain hook and his cronies ranting out side finsbury park mosque for months and no body even tryed to stop his hate filled spewing- i know because i live not a million miles away.
pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: I`ve said this some where before in another thread but why should i have to carry an ID card i was born a bred here in the UK i have no crimminal record i`m not a terrorist it`s the illegal immigrants that need to be tracked and records kept up to date .We had old captain hook and his cronies ranting out side finsbury park mosque for months and no body even tryed to stop his hate filled spewing- i know because i live not a million miles away.
But that's the point, if everyone had an ID card, then the ellegals would be identifiable because they would'nt have one.
I can't see any negatives to having an Identity Card. It's no different than having a Driver's License, Social Security Card etc. In fact, I hope that someday they will have a tiny chip imbedded in our skin that would have our medical history, personal data etc. on it. A simple scan by a medical team could save your life by supplying needed data re: your health history, meds etc. Some people are overly concerned about PRIVACY. You have privacy if you go and live on a desert island all by yourself, but if you live in a society with others and utilize what society has to offer, then you give up that right to privacy.
Lon wrote: I can't see any negatives to having an Identity Card. It's no different than having a Driver's License, Social Security Card etc. In fact, I hope that someday they will have a tiny chip imbedded in our skin that would have our medical history, personal data etc. on it. A simple scan by a medical team could save your life by supplying needed data re: your health history, meds etc. Some people are overly concerned about PRIVACY. You have privacy if you go and live on a desert island all by yourself, but if you live in a society with others and utilize what society has to offer, then you give up that right to privacy.
Very well put Lon, do you have compulsary ID cards in th US?
Philadelphia Eagle wrote: How can you not have a photo ID system.
Here in America different States use various forms of ID.
You must be able to provide proof of identity for carrying out certain transactions.
That basic premise exists in many countries.
If you don't have these controls in UK surely there must be fraud on a massive scale going on?
How anyone can object to a verification system unless of course they have something to hide defies logic.I would have thought a drivers licence was enough.
Philadelphia Eagle wrote: How can you not have a photo ID system.
Here in America different States use various forms of ID.
You must be able to provide proof of identity for carrying out certain transactions.
That basic premise exists in many countries.
If you don't have these controls in UK surely there must be fraud on a massive scale going on?
How anyone can object to a verification system unless of course they have something to hide defies logic.
We also use various forms for ID such as driving license, passport etc. what is being proposed is a biometric ID card that could, in the future, hold all of ones personal information on the one card
TMC wrote: We also use various forms for ID such as driving license, passport etc. what is being proposed is a biometric ID card that could, in the future, hold all of ones personal information on the one cardI would not agree with that at all. All ones personal information can and could be used by a dictatorship. Smells of McCarthyism and Hitler
capt_buzzard wrote: I would not agree with that at all. All ones personal information can and could be used by a dictatorship. Smells of McCarthyism and Hitler
But we don't live in a dictatorship, besides, all this information is available to the government, just not all in one place.
TMC wrote: But we don't live in a dictatorship, besides, all this information is available to the government, just not all in one place.You don't live in Ireland bud
the U.S is moving towards the same thing. They are going to standardized Driver's Licenses for all states and possibly even include a biometirc device such as a fingerprint or a PAN (Personal Area Network Signature)
My Christian friend, (which is not to say that I'm not Christian, I'm just not as devout as he is) thinks this is the end of the world and the anti-Christ is coming as soon as we all get these ID's.
Personally, I like the idea of no one being able to steal my identity. But honestly, I doubt anyone would ever want to be me...especially after they saw my bank account balance and my credit rating!
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Jives wrote: the U.S is moving towards the same thing. They are going to standardized Driver's Licenses for all states and possibly even include a biometirc device such as a fingerprint or a PAN (Personal Area Network Signature)
My Christian friend, (which is not to say that I'm not Christian, I'm just not as devout as he is) thinks this is the end of the world and the anti-Christ is coming as soon as we all get these ID's.
Personally, I like the idea of no one being able to steal my identity. But honestly, I doubt anyone would ever want to be me...especially after they saw my bank account balance and my credit rating! :DYes,Jives I'd heard that one 666 and the Rapture:D Yes, we have the same PAN.
tony blair has today announced that ID cards (paid for by each card-carrier, not the government) are to become law in the UK. Reasons / excuses given include the increase of `identity fraud` and `terrorism`.
(just wondering john, do you have a brother called whoateallthe?)
No he hasn't. Tony Blair does not make the laws or decide what the law should be, all theycan do is pit this befire parliament. this has to get through both parliament and the house of lords. If the arrogant little S*&T thinks he rules the country the sonner we get rid of him the better. Hopefully the MP's will have the moral backbone to squash this.
The whole idea is farcical, it will do nothing to curb terrorism, will cost a fortune. If you have dealt with any government department their ability to set up and run any kind of computer based system runs from the non existent to the completely useless. Once most people realise they are expected to pay for this themselves just watch the support drop away.
posted by TMC
But we don't live in a dictatorship, besides, all this information is available to the government, just not all in one place.
No we don't and one of the main reasons we don't is a long history of refusing to accept we should just blindly do what we are told. Dictatorship happens bit by bit not evernight, nor does it have to be one person, all it takes is the accepotance that any group is above the law or is not protected by the law.
One of our fundamental freedoms is the right not to suffer arbitrary arrest without getting the chance to face your accuser. The other one is that you are innocent until proven guilty. Under this labour givernment they have tried to do just that and been overuled by the law lords-our system is far from perfect but having an independent judiciary and legislature is crucial.
As it stands if a policeman stops you he has to have a pretty good reason for doing so. The first thing you should do if stopped is ask for his warrant card and an explanation of why you have been stopped.(assuming it is not blindingly obvious of course) There are enough powers of arrest as it is, try telling then policeman to F&^^ off instaed of asking nicely and you'll see what I mean. why should we tolerate being stopped and asked to produce ID and justify what we are doing?
posted by philadelphia eagle
How anyone can object to a verification system unless of course they have something to hide defies logic.
Turn it on it's head why should we have to verify anything if we are not doing anything wrong?
There is massive identity theft-chip and pin and other measures go a long way to stop it having an id card or not will make no difference.
posted by lon
You have privacy if you go and live on a desert island all by yourself, but if you live in a society with others and utilize what society has to offer, then you give up that right to privacy.
No you don't. We empower governments by giving them authority to govern, we do not do so by giving them the authority to tell us what to do and think or by letting them become convinced they have a right to govern or to impinge on our right to privacy unless there is a very good reason for it.
TB is a control freak this is just another symptom. I couldn't stand maggie Thatcher but I am beginning o feel nostalgic.
No we don't and one of the main reasons we don't is a long history of refusing to accept we should just blindly do what we are told. Dictatorship happens bit by bit not evernight, nor does it have to be one person, all it takes is the accepotance that any group is above the law or is not protected by the law.
One of our fundamental freedoms is the right not to suffer arbitrary arrest without getting the chance to face your accuser. The other one is that you are innocent until proven guilty. Under this labour givernment they have tried to do just that and been overuled by the law lords-our system is far from perfect but having an independent judiciary and legislature is crucial.
What has any of this got to do with ID cards?
As it stands if a policeman stops you he has to have a pretty good reason for doing so.
The introduction of ID cards does not give the police any more powers than they already have, it would just make their job easier.
The first thing you should do if stopped is ask for his warrant card and an explanation of why you have been stopped.(assuming it is not blindingly obvious of course)
The police have a duty to explain the reason for the stop, there’s no need to ask for an explanation.
There are enough powers of arrest as it is,
The introduction of ID cards does not increase police powers of arrest.
try telling then policeman to F&^^ off instaed of asking nicely and you'll see what I mean.
In my limited dealings with the police, I’ve found courtesy goes along way.
why should we tolerate being stopped and asked to produce ID and justify what we are doing?
Because it’s a necessary part of police work in preventing crime.
