I'm Confused!!

[Pheasy]

I was called by the Guidance Councilor at Josh's school today. Apparently Josh and another boy were arguing about a jacket from 'lost and found'. Apparently Josh got a grey sweater from 'lost and found' and then another boy said it was his. I went to the school to look at sweater - it was not Josh's and I guess it was the other boys. We then found Josh's sweater, which looked very similar in his bookbag in his locker. So I left the school thinking it was believed to be a misunderstanding.

But, Josh received 'in school suspension' (loss of recess) and had to do a 5 page essay! I am VERY confused, he has absolutely no record of ever stealing anything (at home or school), and this, to my understanding, was not considered to be stealing :-

Am I missing the point somewhere here?

[Betty Boop]

I guess you need to know how far the 'argument' went, did it end up in a fight?

[chonsigirl]

I bet Josh forgot his sweater in the bookbag-an in school suspension seems overly harsh about a misunderstanding.

[AussiePam]

A Guidance Councilor gets involved when two kids are having a spat about a bit of clothing??????

[Pheasy]

Betty Boop;696899 wrote: I guess you need to know how far the 'argument' went, did it end up in a fight?


As far as I am aware, there was no fight. But if there was, you would of thought they would of told me about it when I was at the school checking the sweaters. Josh is out playing with his friends, I will ask him when he gets in.

[chonsigirl]

Yes Pam, a guidance counselor will get involved in that. And about anything that may cause discord, potential fighting, etx among students.

Here is the other side of the coin. On duty this morning before school, a big fight. The student assaulted the teacher-and the student only got a 3 day suspension. It took 4 teachers to stop him-one was a 5 month pregnant lady teacher! Now, this is ridiculous......................

[Pheasy]

AussiePam;696907 wrote: A Guidance Councilor gets involved when two kids are having a spat about a bit of clothing??????


It seems that way here. When I first got here it seemed odd to me too. But the Guidance Councilor at the Elementry school (Joshs old school) got involved in all the 'trouble' too. Any disagreements were dealt with by her.

[Pheasy]

chonsigirl;696900 wrote: I bet Josh forgot his sweater in the bookbag-an in school suspension seems overly harsh about a misunderstanding.


I thought it was just a misunderstanding too. When we (me and guidance councilor) checked his locker - he said 'oh yes I can see the similarity and confusion'. :-5

[Pheasy]

chonsigirl;696911 wrote: Yes Pam, a guidance counselor will get involved in that. And about anything that may cause discord, potential fighting, etx among students.

Here is the other side of the coin. On duty this morning before school, a big fight. The student assaulted the teacher-and the student only got a 3 day suspension. It took 4 teachers to stop him-one was a 5 month pregnant lady teacher! Now, this is ridiculous......................


Well I agree. Assaulting a teacher or anyone for that matter should go with a heavy punishment. If Josh had stole the sweater from 'lost and found' (I would be shocked as it is not in his character), then I would like to see him punished. But I did think that anyone was thinking that he did.

[Betty Boop]

ThePheasant;696909 wrote: As far as I am aware, there was no fight. But if there was, you would of thought they would of told me about it when I was at the school checking the sweaters. Josh is out playing with his friends, I will ask him when he gets in.


If they didn't tell you all the details I'd be pretty annoyed! Did the other boy get the same treatment?



Why do they use essay writing as a punishment?

[AussiePam]

How old is Josh? My small person will be six in November. He's having some ongoing playground trouble with a girl who is slightly autistic and twice his size. D is a gentle soul who was completely unused to the rough and tumble of playground life, but he's learning fast. The girl takes his hat regularly (compulsory to wear in Aussie sunshine during playtime - you get sent inside if hatless) and throws it over the school fence. D has learnt that beating the crap out of her isn't the answer! The teachers are aware of the ongoing fun and games... sigh... I guess she'll get tired of this eventually, and find someone else to mess with.

[RedGlitter]

ThePheasant;696916 wrote: I thought it was just a misunderstanding too. When we (me and guidance councilor) checked his locker - he said 'oh yes I can see the similarity and confusion'. :-5


Then unless there was a physical fight, there was no reason to punish either one. It sounds overdone to me.

Edit: you know, I think they just implied your boy is a thief. I don't think that's right. Anyone could do something like that, forget their sweater and think they see it in Lost and Found. A similar thing even happened to me in grade school. Over a sweater, ironically. If there was a bad enough altercation between the kids then maybe that was a fair punishment Maybe. But from what you've told us, it isn't setting well with me.

[Pheasy]

AussiePam;696923 wrote: How old is Josh? My small person will be six in November. He's having some ongoing playground trouble with a girl who is slightly autistic and twice his size. D is a gentle soul who was completely unused to the rough and tumble of playground life, but he's learning fast. The girl takes his hat regularly (compulsory to wear in Aussie sunshine during playtime - you get sent inside if hatless) and throws it over the school fence. D has learnt that beating the crap out of her isn't the answer! The teachers are aware of the ongoing fun and games... sigh... I guess she'll get tired of this eventually, and find someone else to mess with.


Josh is 12. My Lucy is 6 also, she just started 1st grade, I was surprised how early the playground 'antics' began. My friends 6 year old is having problems with nastiness in the cafeteria at lunch time from another 6 year old. Lucy is very laid back, hopefully she stays that way - nothing seems to phase her - so noone bothers to annoy her as they don't get the feedback they are looking for :wah:

[Betty Boop]

AussiePam;696923 wrote: How old is Josh? My small person will be six in November. He's having some ongoing playground trouble with a girl who is slightly autistic and twice his size. D is a gentle soul who was completely unused to the rough and tumble of playground life, but he's learning fast. The girl takes his hat regularly (compulsory to wear in Aussie sunshine during playtime - you get sent inside if hatless) and throws it over the school fence. D has learnt that beating the crap out of her isn't the answer! The teachers are aware of the ongoing fun and games... sigh... I guess she'll get tired of this eventually, and find someone else to mess with.


Oh bless her! Surely she should have support at school, that support assistant should be with her at breaktimes to ensure she's stopped before she even tries, and as you say eventually she'll get tired of it :wah:

[Pheasy]

RedGlitter;696926 wrote: Then unless there was a physical fight, there was no reason to punish either one. It sounds overdone to me.


Yes I agree. I just email the Principal and G/C so hopefully they can let me know why and if there are any 'missing' bits to the story. I thought they would of kept me updated, specially as they decided to give 'in school' suspension

[chonsigirl]

In a day or two, make an appointment to meet with the guidance counselor and find out the details that led up to this in-school suspension. You should be privalege to everything that happened.

[Pheasy]

Betty Boop;696930 wrote: Oh bless her! Surely she should have support at school, that support assistant should be with her at breaktimes to ensure she's stopped before she even tries, and as you say eventually she'll get tired of it :wah:


I agree. Isn't there usually at least 2 playground attendant to keep an eye on things.

[Patsy Warnick]

Pheasant

Haven't you had trouble with this school before - (I may have you confused with another).

I thought you had a disagreement with this school once before?

None the less - if theres a punishment, both should receive the punishment.

I find the punishment a bit harsh over a piece of clothing - no one was hitting?

Pheasant - think back - what would your parents do?

I know what my parents would do & did, things got straightened out quickly..

Patsy

[Pheasy]

Patsy Warnick;696943 wrote: Pheasant

Haven't you had trouble with this school before - (I may have you confused with another).

I thought you had a disagreement with this school once before?

None the less - if theres a punishment, both should receive the punishment.

I find the punishment a bit harsh over a piece of clothing - no one was hitting?

Pheasant - think back - what would your parents do?

I know what my parents would do & did, things got straightened out quickly..

Patsy


No, you must be thinking of someone else. I don't remember posting any school trouble before - Josh has never been in trouble like this before. He does have problems concentrating and being in school environment,, but those are totally different to this. Also, this is a new school, he just moved from Elementary to Jr. High. I'm not going to launch in guns blazing - I have emailed asking nicely for more detail - there could be something else ... like, I dunno, Josh was rude to teacher or something (he says not) but I'm checking.

[Patsy Warnick]

Pheasant

I'm not suggesting to march & drag your son by the ear.. My parents embarrassed us, and thats the last thing your son needs.

I think your handling this wisely - good approach to get some questions answered.

Were you given something like the school hand book? - pamphlet of rules?

There maybe something in that?

Patsy

[Pheasy]

Probably won't get a reply from email until tomorrow now. I will let you know what was said. Thanks for input.

If Josh did something wrong, then I agree he should be punished. But if not and its because of what I see has happened, then I think its unfair to treat him like a thief ... for his own view on himself and his peers. He does not think much of himself most of the time as it is (unnecessary, he's bright and friendly), I guess he just does not have much self worth.

I let you know what was said. :-6

[gmc]

ThePheasant;696897 wrote: I was called by the Guidance Councilor at Josh's school today. Apparently Josh and another boy were arguing about a jacket from 'lost and found'. Apparently Josh got a grey sweater from 'lost and found' and then another boy said it was his. I went to the school to look at sweater - it was not Josh's and I guess it was the other boys. We then found Josh's sweater, which looked very similar in his bookbag in his locker. So I left the school thinking it was believed to be a misunderstanding.

But, Josh received 'in school suspension' (loss of recess) and had to do a 5 page essay! I am VERY confused, he has absolutely no record of ever stealing anything (at home or school), and this, to my understanding, was not considered to be stealing :-

Am I missing the point somewhere here?


If both received the same punishment then perhaps it was for fighting. Sound like a simple misunderstanding-kids can forget they left things often enough. If it was just josh I would go in all guns blazing since it implies he was a thief. Last thing you need is a guidance counsellor and a kid with that kind of reputation. Any least little thing he will automatically be viewed as a liar. Don't know about the states but here schools have to be seen to be fair to all or they leave themselves wide open to being suedoor the local authority rather.

[kazalala]

I think you are doing the right thing Pheasy asking for more details on why he is receiving punishment. I mean what child would want to steal a school sweater If it was because of the altercation about it then they should both be punished, otherwise your son is being punished for making a mistake!!

[Pheasy]

gmc;697196 wrote: If both received the same punishment then perhaps it was for fighting. Sound like a simple misunderstanding-kids can forget they left things often enough. If it was just josh I would go in all guns blazing since it implies he was a thief. Last thing you need is a guidance counsellor and a kid with that kind of reputation. Any least little thing he will automatically be viewed as a liar. Don't know about the states but here schools have to be seen to be fair to all or they leave themselves wide open to being suedoor the local authority rather.


No it was just Josh who received punishment. And he said other kids are already going around saying he stole it and he's a thief (he has never stolen anything from school or home) - don't get me wrong he's not an 'angel' but stealing is just not him. I just can't see him wanting to steal a sweater, it's not like he does not have nice clothes - me and his Dad go without so our kids can have nice clothes. Anyway Josh is one of these kids that doesn't actually care what he looks like - its me that insists he looks nice and tidy.

Oh well still waiting for reply from Principal, so see what he says - maybe there is more to it. My email to him, was just nicely asking at this stage.

Thanks for reply. Sometimes its nice to get other points of view to put things into perspective. :-6

[Pheasy]

kazalala;697267 wrote: I think you are doing the right thing Pheasy asking for more details on why he is receiving punishment. I mean what child would want to steal a school sweater If it was because of the altercation about it then they should both be punished, otherwise your son is being punished for making a mistake!!


I agree Kaz - by all accounts it was a bit grotty too :wah:

[Pheasy]

Just received reply to my email to principal, I copied and pasted exact email (just deleted his name - thought I'd better). By the way, lost and found is in main office, where office staff are all the time!

Mrs. Q,

Josh took the sweatshirt out of lost and found, which is stealing. He

then lied by insisting that it was his. He then refused to give it to

the rightful owner. I felt he needed to learn a lesson, so I placed him

in in-school suspension for the rest of the day yesterday.

Mr. K

[Imladris]

ThePheasant;697471 wrote: Just received reply to my email to principal, I copied and pasted exact email (just deleted his name - thought I'd better). By the way, lost and found is in main office, where office staff are all the time!



Mrs. Q,



Josh took the sweatshirt out of lost and found, which is stealing. He

then lied by insisting that it was his. He then refused to give it to

the rightful owner. I felt he needed to learn a lesson, so I placed him

in in-school suspension for the rest of the day yesterday.



Mr. K




Dear Mr K.



Josh made a mistake when he identified the sweater as his, he didn't lie - he made a mistake and as children do sometimes got a little indignant when challenged.



He learned a lesson when I was called into the school and the lesson was that sometimes adults will over-react to what is essentially a misunderstanding that could have been handled in a more sensitive and adult way.



He also learned that sometimes teachers make a mountain out of a molehill and that maybe he cannot approach a teacher when he has a problem with a fellow pupil as he may be punished inappropriately for his actions.



I feel that in school suspension is using a lump hammer to crack a nut, and will be reluctant to bring problems to the school in future for fear of the repercussions for my son and any other pupils.



Mrs Q.







You may not send it but I bet you feel like it!!!!

[RedGlitter]

!!!

Pheas, that email is BS and IMO a teeny bit arrogant. Where is the suggestion for discussion on this? There isn't one!

Why the heck would they take a kid who has a good reputation and good morals and not give him the benefit of the doubt?! They think he's a thief? PROVE IT!How do they know that the sweater belonged to the other kid and not someone else? PROVE IT!

I'm pissed off.

I think you should send Imladris' letter. Actually better yet, I think you should go down there and challenge them, and request an apology to Josh. If it's in Lost & Found, God knows who it could belong to- L&F is a free-for-all and always has been.

I would also make sure they include a note from Josh as to what REALLY happened and put that in his permanent record because you have to know the suspension/thievery thing is in there already.

Based on what you told us, they did this wrong. Dumbass adults. Without fighting or previous incident, there was no call to punish Josh. That's my opinion about it.

[Pheasy]

Imladris;697479 wrote: Dear Mr K.



Josh made a mistake when he identified the sweater as his, he didn't lie - he made a mistake and as children do sometimes got a little indignant when challenged.



He learned a lesson when I was called into the school and the lesson was that sometimes adults will over-react to what is essentially a misunderstanding that could have been handled in a more sensitive and adult way.



He also learned that sometimes teachers make a mountain out of a molehill and that maybe he cannot approach a teacher when he has a problem with a fellow pupil as he may be punished inappropriately for his actions.



I feel that in school suspension is using a lump hammer to crack a nut, and will be reluctant to bring problems to the school in future for fear of the repercussions for my son and any other pupils.



Mrs Q,







You may not send it but I bet you feel like it!!!!


Oh my how right you are. :wah:

In his previous school the 'lost and found' box was in the hallway, and the children just went through it to find there belongings - they did not ever have to inform anyone they were going there or found their items of clothing. I am wondering if anyone told Josh that this is different at new school. Also, I cannot believe that there were no staff members in the office when Josh was looking through box. In my mind, 'stealing' is when you sneak in, and take without anyones knowledge and know that its not yours. :-5

I am thinking about my reply - might pinch some of your work for reply (if I tell you - thats not stealing right ? :wah:)

[Pheasy]

ThePheasant;697496 wrote: Oh my how right you are. :wah:

In his previous school the 'lost and found' box was in the hallway, and the children just went through it to find there belongings - they did not ever have to inform anyone they were going there or found their items of clothing. I am wondering if anyone told Josh that this is different at new school. Also, I cannot believe that there were no staff members in the office when Josh was looking through box. In my mind, 'stealing' is when you sneak in, and take without anyones knowledge and know that its not yours. :-5

I am thinking about my reply - might pinch some of your work for reply (if I tell you - thats not stealing right ? :wah:)


I have cut n pasted my original email to him, so you get the full story - gotta go to Brownies now - I'm bloody fuming

Original email sent by me:

Today Josh says he received 'in school' suspension for stealing a

sweater from someone. It was my understanding, through conversations

this morning that this was not seen as 'stealing' but more of a

mis-understanding, as Josh did have a sweater missing at school

somewhere. Neither does he have any record (check previous school records) of ever having stolen anything before.

I know Josh can misunderstand the reasoning for things sometimes - was

the 'in school' suspension for stealing? And, is it your belief that he

was trying to steal the clothing?

Regards,

Q, Mrs.

[Pheasy]

Still fuming! I need to calm down before I make my next move. Thanks for input. :mad::mad:

[Patsy Warnick]

How long are items left in the "lost & Found"?

Usually if items are left/unclaimed for certain amount of time - then the items were given to the needy kids.

Well - from this point on your son will need to tell you/explain to you if he lost something or found something and then you both can deal with the school regarding that item or situation..

I really think this is a over reaction to the incident

Are you ready to bring out those big guns yet?

I'd certainly write a letter as suggested - remember all this correspondence will go into your sons file

so this letter should explain the misunderstanding and should be signed by everyone.

I don't like this - I don't like how the school has handled this at all..

Good luck

Patsy

[kazalala]

How dare they!!!:mad: I can only agree with what everyone else has commented Pheasy, i think you have got to get this sorted otherwise your son is now going to be branded a thief and a liar. That e mail you received was shocking:-5 How is taking something from lost and found stealing? They seem to have decided Josh went in to lost and found with the sole purpose of stealing something, then they said he lied, so again they are saying he knew it wasnt his, they havent even given him the tiniest benefit of doubt? I think you should also enlist the help of the teacher you said saw Josh's jumper and agreed she could see why the mix up had occured. Good Luck Pheasy, and dont back down until your son is cleared.

[laneybug]

There are a lot of opinions here and they're all very good ones. But, I'll just throw my 2 cents in here.

The best way to handle this thing is by not getting angry to look at this thing rationally at both sides. An emotional reaction is usually not the best one in situations like this.

Honestly, this is a good example of life not always being fair and the consequences not always being just. Something your son needs to learn if he's going to be successful in the real world. Shading your son from the harsher realities of life is going to do him no favors. But, if you feel this kind of thing is simply intolerable, certainly take it up with whoever you need to. Have a meeting, send letters to the right people, but make sure you're talking to someone who has higher authority than the school's principal since he's already biased and probably won't sway much now that his mind is made up.

Just try not to get too angry over the whole thing. In the big picture, it's really not worth it. The situation will work itself out and life will go on.

[Pheasy]

laneybug;698182 wrote: There are a lot of opinions here and they're all very good ones. But, I'll just throw my 2 cents in here.

The best way to handle this thing is by not getting angry to look at this thing rationally at both sides. An emotional reaction is usually not the best one in situations like this.

Honestly, this is a good example of life not always being fair and the consequences not always being just. Something your son needs to learn if he's going to be successful in the real world. Shading your son from the harsher realities of life is going to do him no favors. But, if you feel this kind of thing is simply intolerable, certainly take it up with whoever you need to. Have a meeting, send letters to the right people, but make sure you're talking to someone who has higher authority than the school's principal since he's already biased and probably won't sway much now that his mind is made up.

Just try not to get too angry over the whole thing. In the big picture, it's really not worth it. The situation will work itself out and life will go on.


Laney, I have read alot of your posts and although we have never chatted much I have always respected and realised that you obviously think about issues and type a well thought out reply. I am still working out my next move here and trying not to allow my emotions to get in the way. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, I appreciate your point of view, your views will help me in my decision regarding next step here.

[kazalala]

laneybug;698182 wrote: There are a lot of opinions here and they're all very good ones. But, I'll just throw my 2 cents in here.

The best way to handle this thing is by not getting angry to look at this thing rationally at both sides. An emotional reaction is usually not the best one in situations like this.

Honestly, this is a good example of life not always being fair and the consequences not always being just. Something your son needs to learn if he's going to be successful in the real world. Shading your son from the harsher realities of life is going to do him no favors. But, if you feel this kind of thing is simply intolerable, certainly take it up with whoever you need to. Have a meeting, send letters to the right people, but make sure you're talking to someone who has higher authority than the school's principal since he's already biased and probably won't sway much now that his mind is made up.

Just try not to get too angry over the whole thing. In the big picture, it's really not worth it. The situation will work itself out and life will go on.


I'm always saying that laney. I do think children have to learn this in order to handle the real world, cos thats the way it is.

But in this case i honestly think Pheasy is right in wanting to fight this battle. Her son is being branded a thief and a liar at the start of a new school. it does'nt bode well if there is ever any other trouble in the coming years, will they give him the benefit of the doubt if its one word against another, or will they automayically assume he is lying? I know i as an adult wouldnt like to be called a thief or a liar, and i think any other adult would feel the same way, and i wonder if it was an adult who made the mistake would they have came to the same conclusion? I think its important for the teachers at the school to know that Pheasy is appalled that her son has been accused otherwise they will think they were right in their assumption.

I hope you get the outcome you want Pheasy:-4

[Nomad]

I'm Confused!!





Me too !

[gmc]

laneybug;698182 wrote: There are a lot of opinions here and they're all very good ones. But, I'll just throw my 2 cents in here.

The best way to handle this thing is by not getting angry to look at this thing rationally at both sides. An emotional reaction is usually not the best one in situations like this.

Honestly, this is a good example of life not always being fair and the consequences not always being just. Something your son needs to learn if he's going to be successful in the real world. Shading your son from the harsher realities of life is going to do him no favors. But, if you feel this kind of thing is simply intolerable, certainly take it up with whoever you need to. Have a meeting, send letters to the right people, but make sure you're talking to someone who has higher authority than the school's principal since he's already biased and probably won't sway much now that his mind is made up.

Just try not to get too angry over the whole thing. In the big picture, it's really not worth it. The situation will work itself out and life will go on.


Maybe life isn't always fair but I think you also need to teach him not to accept an injustice. Mind you that's easy to say when you're detached from the situation. Don't know about America but any school doing something like that would have a problem on it's hands. If it was theft then the police should have been involved. If they weren't they can't just decide he was a thief, treat him accordingly and expect no repercussions. Come to that with something this serious why did the counsellor not discuss it with you before implementing the punishment?

[laneybug]

I definitely agree that this sort of thing should be fought against. And I hope Pheasant gets it all sorted out.

My post was mostly about Pheasant's anger about the issue. Anger, in my opinion, can be very useful. But, it can also debilitate us when we need to think issues through and make a good decision.

I certainly don't want her son being branded as a thief and, if it can be worked out, I really hope for that. This situation is a small example of the nature of imperfection in our world, and could be a good teaching tool for her son in the longer run of things.

If one is taught the unfairness that exists in society than they can be better equipped to protect themselves from it.

[laneybug]

ThePheasant;698206 wrote: Laney, I have read alot of your posts and although we have never chatted much I have always respected and realised that you obviously think about issues and type a well thought out reply. I am still working out my next move here and trying not to allow my emotions to get in the way. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, I appreciate your point of view, your views will help me in my decision regarding next step here.


Thank you Pheasant. I was a little worried that my post would be taken as insensitive and I'm really glad you didn't see it that way. It's just another point of view to consider, like you said.

I really do hope that this situation gets taken care of. I have the feeling that you're a good parent and I'm sure you'll do whatever necessary to help your son. I would too. Being called a thief is not a laughing matter and I really hope everything goes well for you. Keep your head about you and this matter will work out fine! :-6

[kazalala]

laneybug;699089 wrote: I definitely agree that this sort of thing should be fought against. And I hope Pheasant gets it all sorted out.

My post was mostly about Pheasant's anger about the issue. Anger, in my opinion, can be very useful. But, it can also debilitate us when we need to think issues through and make a good decision.

I certainly don't want her son being branded as a thief and, if it can be worked out, I really hope for that. This situation is a small example of the nature of imperfection in our world, and could be a good teaching tool for her son in the longer run of things.

If one is taught the unfairness that exists in society than they can be better equipped to protect themselves from it.


Yes thats a very good point laney:) I agree its better sometimes to wait a while before reacting, and think it out a bit:-6

[kazalala]

Pheasy,,, any update???:-3