I thought this might be a good discussion. (I hope)
I am conflicted over this. Vaccines are the reason we don't have polio and so many other diseases, yet I'm not so sure it should be mandatory for people who object. Yet you can't really endanger society for a few, can you?
What do you think about this?
Vaccines or else: Parents blast order for schoolchildren
Story Highlights
School system threatens families with jail or fines if children aren't vaccinated
Parents have to show proof of shots or have children immunized on the spot
Families can opt out by providing medical or religious waivers
Critics worry about the safety of vaccines, parental rights and privacy issuesFrom Gary Nurenberg
CNN
UPPER MARLBORO, Maryland (CNN) -- A crowd of frustrated parents gathered on a chilly Saturday morning outside Prince George's County Circuit Court to comply with an order from the school system to have their children vaccinated -- or else.
Prince George's County State's Attorney Glenn Ivey, whose office began the effort, was at the courthouse to answer questions.
Judge C. Philip Nichols, who signed the letters threatening parents with jail or fines, said he felt the tactic worked.
"We got a thousand kids back in school just by sending one letter," he said.
Nichols ordered parents to come to court Saturday to either immunize the children on the spot, or to provide proof that they already had their shots, according to The Associated Press.
Families who failed to comply could face 10 to 30 days in jail.
" started out with phone calls, even home visits, and this became a last resort for parents who wouldn't comply one way or another," Ivey said.
All states require school-age children to be immunized against diseases such as mumps, measles and polio. But the parents said they objected to the heavy-handed way Ivey has handled the issue.
Families could opt out of the required shots by providing medical or religious waivers. Citing cases of serious adverse reactions, some parents worry about the safety of vaccines.
"The patient should have a choice. I just don't think Big Brother should have that much power," said Donna Hurlock, a physician and activist concerned about parental rights and privacy issues. Watch experts with opposing views debate mandatory vaccinations »
Jim Moody was among the parents protesting the policy.
"There are serious considerations for safety that need to be addressed before compelling people to get vaccines," he said. Watch why parents are upset »
Public health officials said the benefits of vaccinations against childhood diseases outweigh the risks.
Some parents who received letters saying they were not in compliance with the vaccination mandate complained that it was the fault of the school system, which they described as disorganized.
"It was the school's mistake. [My daughter] didn't have documentation. This is the second or third time we had to redo her again because her shot records got misplaced," Ron Brooking told CNN.
Authorities said they will decide in the next few days what to do with families who refused to obey the vaccination order.
Ivey was still mulling whether to prosecute parents not in compliance.
"We have to sit down with school and health services," he told the AP. "We haven't ruled anything out. We need to figure out where we stand."
The parents of about 1,700 children received letters from Ivey reminding them of the consequences for not complying, said John White, spokesman for Prince George's County Public Schools.
That number was down to 1,111 by Thursday, and was reduced to 939 children by Saturday evening, he said.
White said that number was the lowest since since a law requiring additional vaccinations went into effect January 1.
But"obviously, we still have some more work to do," he told the AP.
101 vaccinations were administered at the courthouse and 71 records were updated, he said.
CNN's JP Abello, Rachel Streitfeld, Yvonne Lee and Yuki Kaneshige contributed to this report.
Copyright 2007 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
All AboutContagious and Infectious Diseases
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
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RedGlitter
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
That's outrageous, the entire notion of mandatory inoculation and the folly of double treatment for those with no paperwork. Why on earth were higher courts not involved immediately to bring that to an immediate end? The entire point of the inoculations is - in the UK at least - that they're voluntary and widely taken up. They're widely taken up here because most parents regard them as beneficial. They're voluntary to keep medical companies and doctors transparently honest. The idea that a country could impose any treatment as mandatory is horrific.
Every single one of those parents should have turned up with a signed religious waiver in protest, regardless of whether they intended to accept the inoculations eventually or not.
Every single one of those parents should have turned up with a signed religious waiver in protest, regardless of whether they intended to accept the inoculations eventually or not.
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When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
What happened to freedom of choice?
Surely it's a parents choice to make decisions about their children.
Surely it's a parents choice to make decisions about their children.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
How could a school system get away with initiating such a major change in parents rights?
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RedGlitter
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
I'm still torn on this. I know family who begrudgingly vaccinated their kids just so they could go to school. They won't even vaccinate their pets, not even for rabies which humans can get from an infected animal. On the one hand, I believe people and pets are over-vaccinated and I understand the concern over parental judgement. Yet...should we let people endanger the protection for all by refusing to vaccinate? Am I overreacting or could this help contribute to diseases coming back? I mean how would you feel if your kid got a disease because someone was unvaccinated? I just don't know, but I'm listening....
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
RedGlitter;721772 wrote: I'm still torn on this. I know family who begrudgingly vaccinated their kids just so they could go to school. They won't even vaccinate their pets, not even for rabies which humans can get from an infected animal. On the one hand, I believe people and pets are over-vaccinated and I understand the concern over parental judgement. Yet...should we let people endanger the protection for all by refusing to vaccinate? Am I overreacting or could this help contribute to diseases coming back? I mean how would you feel if your kid got a disease because someone was unvaccinated? I just don't know, but I'm listening....
Have you come across the case in the UK where the government insist on giving the triple vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. A report came out linking it to autism and many parents refused to allow their children to have it.
Even though the separate vaccines were available it developed into a fight between the government and the parents over who should determine what would be used with the government refusing to allow the separate vaccines to be given and the parents refusing to use the tripe vaccine.
This has continued to the extent that we are now experiencing a measels outbreak for the first time in decades.
Have you come across the case in the UK where the government insist on giving the triple vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. A report came out linking it to autism and many parents refused to allow their children to have it.
Even though the separate vaccines were available it developed into a fight between the government and the parents over who should determine what would be used with the government refusing to allow the separate vaccines to be given and the parents refusing to use the tripe vaccine.
This has continued to the extent that we are now experiencing a measels outbreak for the first time in decades.
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RedGlitter
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
Bryn Mawr;721797 wrote: Have you come across the case in the UK where the government insist on giving the triple vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. A report came out linking it to autism and many parents refused to allow their children to have it.
Even though the separate vaccines were available it developed into a fight between the government and the parents over who should determine what would be used with the government refusing to allow the separate vaccines to be given and the parents refusing to use the tripe vaccine.
This has continued to the extent that we are now experiencing a measels outbreak for the first time in decades.
That doesn't make any sense to me why the government would care which vaccine was used as long as something was used...was it perhaps a money issue? Did someone get paid more for the triple vaccine than the single ones? I ask because it often seems money is a factor in this stuff. I can appreciate not wanting to give my kid something that could endanger them.
Even though the separate vaccines were available it developed into a fight between the government and the parents over who should determine what would be used with the government refusing to allow the separate vaccines to be given and the parents refusing to use the tripe vaccine.
This has continued to the extent that we are now experiencing a measels outbreak for the first time in decades.
That doesn't make any sense to me why the government would care which vaccine was used as long as something was used...was it perhaps a money issue? Did someone get paid more for the triple vaccine than the single ones? I ask because it often seems money is a factor in this stuff. I can appreciate not wanting to give my kid something that could endanger them.
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freetobeme
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
I'm conflicted on this too, do the parents/child's rights supercede the good of the many? What would happen if a child became very ill from a forced vaccine, imagine the law case over that one.
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RedGlitter
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
freetobeme;721850 wrote: I'm conflicted on this too, do the parents/child's rights supercede the good of the many? What would happen if a child became very ill from a forced vaccine, imagine the law case over that one.
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That's a very good point to bring up. And it happens from time to time. Just as in when I vaccinate my dogs I take a risk that they won't end up with the full blown disease. But if I don't vaccinate them, they run a greater risk of becoming ill and if it's rabies they have, I am endangering society. HMM.
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That's a very good point to bring up. And it happens from time to time. Just as in when I vaccinate my dogs I take a risk that they won't end up with the full blown disease. But if I don't vaccinate them, they run a greater risk of becoming ill and if it's rabies they have, I am endangering society. HMM.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
I worried a lot about all this when my kids were small. They all had allergies, and I'd myself had a life-threatening reaction to the older version of the whooping cough vaccine. I asked several specialist doctors that I knew well, and they talked me through the pros and cons, and quoted figures at me.
The upshot was that there is a small risk involved in vaccinating, and a big risk involved in not vaccinating.
I finally asked them if they'd fully vaccinated their own children. They all gave me an categorical YES. Good enough for me.
The upshot was that there is a small risk involved in vaccinating, and a big risk involved in not vaccinating.
I finally asked them if they'd fully vaccinated their own children. They all gave me an categorical YES. Good enough for me.
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chonsigirl
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
Yes, there is an uproar over this in Maryland. All week long the school nurse went through each child's vaccinations records, sent letters home-did some vaccinations for those who consented. It is very controversial.
Hard to get the point across at my school though, one teacher isn't innoculated for anything or her children. She makes an issue of this-and it is not for religious reasons.
My children are vaccinated. I will always remember the little boy across the street from me as a child. All the kids in the neighborhood had measles, my sister was very ill from it. The little boy did die. We are lucky to have vaccinations today. There are pros and cons to every issue, but to have a childhood illness take a child's life should not happen in this modern day and age.
Hard to get the point across at my school though, one teacher isn't innoculated for anything or her children. She makes an issue of this-and it is not for religious reasons.
My children are vaccinated. I will always remember the little boy across the street from me as a child. All the kids in the neighborhood had measles, my sister was very ill from it. The little boy did die. We are lucky to have vaccinations today. There are pros and cons to every issue, but to have a childhood illness take a child's life should not happen in this modern day and age.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
Bryn Mawr;721797 wrote: Have you come across the case in the UK where the government insist on giving the triple vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. A report came out linking it to autism and many parents refused to allow their children to have it.
Even though the separate vaccines were available it developed into a fight between the government and the parents over who should determine what would be used with the government refusing to allow the separate vaccines to be given and the parents refusing to use the tripe vaccine.
This has continued to the extent that we are now experiencing a measels outbreak for the first time in decades.
This is slightly misleading. Firstly there's no compulsion on anyone in the UK having inoculations at all and secondly the triple vaccine is the only option available free - anyone who wants separate inoculations can have those if they pay for private treatment and it scarcely costs a fortune. The UK argument is whether the separate inoculations should be available on request within the National Health System.
Lots of things would make children safer but they're not compulsory yet here or in the US. Subcutaneously tagging them with RDIF would make them traceable when they get lost or kidnapped for example. DNA-fingerprinting them would make society safer in the long run by making criminals more detectable. Are we going to see a legal insistence that children be tagged or DNA-fingerprinted at birth?
Even though the separate vaccines were available it developed into a fight between the government and the parents over who should determine what would be used with the government refusing to allow the separate vaccines to be given and the parents refusing to use the tripe vaccine.
This has continued to the extent that we are now experiencing a measels outbreak for the first time in decades.
This is slightly misleading. Firstly there's no compulsion on anyone in the UK having inoculations at all and secondly the triple vaccine is the only option available free - anyone who wants separate inoculations can have those if they pay for private treatment and it scarcely costs a fortune. The UK argument is whether the separate inoculations should be available on request within the National Health System.
Lots of things would make children safer but they're not compulsory yet here or in the US. Subcutaneously tagging them with RDIF would make them traceable when they get lost or kidnapped for example. DNA-fingerprinting them would make society safer in the long run by making criminals more detectable. Are we going to see a legal insistence that children be tagged or DNA-fingerprinted at birth?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
spot;721892 wrote: This is slightly misleading. Firstly there's no compulsion on anyone in the UK having inoculations at all and secondly the triple vaccine is the only option available free - anyone who wants separate inoculations can have those if they pay for private treatment and it scarcely costs a fortune. The UK argument is whether the separate inoculations should be available on request within the National Health System.
Lots of things would make children safer but they're not compulsory yet here or in the US. Subcutaneously tagging them with RDIF would make them traceable when they get lost or kidnapped for example. DNA-fingerprinting them would make society safer in the long run by making criminals more detectable. Are we going to see a legal insistence that children be tagged or DNA-fingerprinted at birth?
I agree that I should have said, if you want your child inoculated the only way the government will do it is using the triple vaccine. I disagree about the private treatment as a lot of GPs toe the line and refuse to give the single vaccines even if paid for privately and many parents do not have access to Harley Street type private clinics.
To your last point - I bloody well hope not, imagine what the government could do with that sort of information!
Lots of things would make children safer but they're not compulsory yet here or in the US. Subcutaneously tagging them with RDIF would make them traceable when they get lost or kidnapped for example. DNA-fingerprinting them would make society safer in the long run by making criminals more detectable. Are we going to see a legal insistence that children be tagged or DNA-fingerprinted at birth?
I agree that I should have said, if you want your child inoculated the only way the government will do it is using the triple vaccine. I disagree about the private treatment as a lot of GPs toe the line and refuse to give the single vaccines even if paid for privately and many parents do not have access to Harley Street type private clinics.
To your last point - I bloody well hope not, imagine what the government could do with that sort of information!
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Patsy Warnick
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
I know vaccinations were mandatory for me & siblings before entry to school.
Do I believe they should be mandatory ? The side effects for many are deadly.
Perhaps there should be some type of screening before.?
I don't believe in all the shots for new borns, due to the deadly side effects.
I don't believe in the Flu Shot either - which is still a choice.
Patsy
Do I believe they should be mandatory ? The side effects for many are deadly.
Perhaps there should be some type of screening before.?
I don't believe in all the shots for new borns, due to the deadly side effects.
I don't believe in the Flu Shot either - which is still a choice.
Patsy
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
The side effects for many are deadly.
Childhood illness can be deadly.
Childhood illness can be deadly.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
I am all for mandatory immunizations.
We have seen TB, Mumps, Whooping Cough, some strains of Measles come back, these were almost wiped out thanks to immunization.
As well we are now facing new challenges with such diseases as Bird flu, SARS, Cancer causing Human Papillomavirus, AIDS etc. If we don't keep these diseases and virus's at bay what is going to happen to us.
We have seen TB, Mumps, Whooping Cough, some strains of Measles come back, these were almost wiped out thanks to immunization.
As well we are now facing new challenges with such diseases as Bird flu, SARS, Cancer causing Human Papillomavirus, AIDS etc. If we don't keep these diseases and virus's at bay what is going to happen to us.
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kayleneaussie
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
I am sure if our children were dying of polio, whooping cough etc we would all be kicking up a stink as to why there isnt anything to cure them....well we have the cure and people are still complaining.
I personally like the trilple all in one vaccination its heaps better for the child than having three separate needles.
I personally like the trilple all in one vaccination its heaps better for the child than having three separate needles.
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
kayleneaussie;721914 wrote: I am sure if our children were dying of polio, whooping cough etc we would all be kicking up a stink as to why there isnt anything to cure them....well we have the cure and people are still complaining.
I personally like the trilple all in one vaccination its heaps better for the child than having three separate needles.
we have one here MMR, mumps measles and Rubella. That has been most affective for a 3 in one. I hope more are developed that way. I remember getting a second TB shot when I entered college at age 21 WOWZERS that one hurt, how ever did I survive that beast when I was a child. OUCH!
I personally like the trilple all in one vaccination its heaps better for the child than having three separate needles.
we have one here MMR, mumps measles and Rubella. That has been most affective for a 3 in one. I hope more are developed that way. I remember getting a second TB shot when I entered college at age 21 WOWZERS that one hurt, how ever did I survive that beast when I was a child. OUCH!
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
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Patsy Warnick
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
Saffy
I had a question mark after mandatory??
I realize disease's are deadly - How does one know if the child is healthy enough to cope/handle these strong vaccinations? I then again suggested a screening process - ?? what kind I don't know.. Children are dying from the vaccinations, so obviously their system couldn't handle the serum.
I don't want to see a epedemic of polio, measles etc.. you can't have a child with sickle cell, diabetis, etc., and have a mandatory vaccinations.
Has anyone looked at the ingredients of this serum?
Patsy
I had a question mark after mandatory??
I realize disease's are deadly - How does one know if the child is healthy enough to cope/handle these strong vaccinations? I then again suggested a screening process - ?? what kind I don't know.. Children are dying from the vaccinations, so obviously their system couldn't handle the serum.
I don't want to see a epedemic of polio, measles etc.. you can't have a child with sickle cell, diabetis, etc., and have a mandatory vaccinations.
Has anyone looked at the ingredients of this serum?
Patsy
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
saffy;721910 wrote: Childhood illness can be deadly.
I'd like to see comparative statistic for this.
When I were a young tyke, 'twer many a long .......
Start again!
When I was young it was normal to have Measles and Mumps parties. If one child in a neighbourhood caught one of the childhood diseases then all of the other children in the area would be brought round to play to make sure they also caught it.
The idea being that they are so much more dangerous as you get older.
I would like to see a comparison of the number of people who are harmed now, either by a childhood disease* or as a side effect of being immunised against it, versus the number who were harmed by those diseases fifty years ago.
Personally, I cannot remember any.
* Measles, mumps and german measles
I'd like to see comparative statistic for this.
When I were a young tyke, 'twer many a long .......
Start again!
When I was young it was normal to have Measles and Mumps parties. If one child in a neighbourhood caught one of the childhood diseases then all of the other children in the area would be brought round to play to make sure they also caught it.
The idea being that they are so much more dangerous as you get older.
I would like to see a comparison of the number of people who are harmed now, either by a childhood disease* or as a side effect of being immunised against it, versus the number who were harmed by those diseases fifty years ago.
Personally, I cannot remember any.
* Measles, mumps and german measles
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
kayleneaussie;721914 wrote: I am sure if our children were dying of polio, whooping cough etc we would all be kicking up a stink as to why there isnt anything to cure them....well we have the cure and people are still complaining.
I personally like the trilple all in one vaccination its heaps better for the child than having three separate needles.
In what way is it better?
The government prefer it because they only have to keep track of one event rather than three but how is giving a child three diseases at once better for the child than allowing them to recover from one before giving them the next?
I personally like the trilple all in one vaccination its heaps better for the child than having three separate needles.
In what way is it better?
The government prefer it because they only have to keep track of one event rather than three but how is giving a child three diseases at once better for the child than allowing them to recover from one before giving them the next?
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
minks brought up the new HPV vaccination that Canada is considering giving young girls in school.
Initially I thought this was wonderful until I read more about it. Apparently the side effects are terrible and are occurring in percentages far too great to consider the vaccine "ready". Plus it's only effective against 4 strains... hardly effective at all.
I've told my daughter that I want to be informed if they try to give her any shots at school and that they are not to do so without my permission.
Initially I thought this was wonderful until I read more about it. Apparently the side effects are terrible and are occurring in percentages far too great to consider the vaccine "ready". Plus it's only effective against 4 strains... hardly effective at all.
I've told my daughter that I want to be informed if they try to give her any shots at school and that they are not to do so without my permission.
Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
In Australia, where a child is considered to be at risk, either by parents or doctors, test doses of the vaccine are given - and the child is carefully monitored afterwards. Because my kids had asthma and/or allergies, we chose to go this way. Because of this other unwellness, they were also considered more at risk if NOT vaccinated. Don't other countries offer this test dose choice?
There was an outbreak of whooping cough in Canberra schools a few years ago*. It was fashionable here at the time for some parents to go "all natural" whether this meant squatting in the bush to have their babies, breastfeeding even if they couldn;t till the baby ended up in hospital on a drip, eating everything uncooked even if this made them sick, and of course refusing any kind of medical non-holistic, non-shaman intervention, including vaccination. I suspect those who survived this fad, are probably not perpetuating it with their own kids.
* I have a relative who contracted whooping cough in England just after WW2. He did survive it, eventually, but has a concave chest now.
There was an outbreak of whooping cough in Canberra schools a few years ago*. It was fashionable here at the time for some parents to go "all natural" whether this meant squatting in the bush to have their babies, breastfeeding even if they couldn;t till the baby ended up in hospital on a drip, eating everything uncooked even if this made them sick, and of course refusing any kind of medical non-holistic, non-shaman intervention, including vaccination. I suspect those who survived this fad, are probably not perpetuating it with their own kids.
* I have a relative who contracted whooping cough in England just after WW2. He did survive it, eventually, but has a concave chest now.
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Parents Balk at Vaccinating Kids
koan;721935 wrote: minks brought up the new HPV vaccination that Canada is considering giving young girls in school.
Initially I thought this was wonderful until I read more about it. Apparently the side effects are terrible and are occurring in percentages far too great to consider the vaccine "ready". Plus it's only effective against 4 strains... hardly effective at all.
I've told my daughter that I want to be informed if they try to give her any shots at school and that they are not to do so without my permission.
If odd that the Canadian government websites are saying no side effects whereas many other site are showing problems - albeit minor and short lived.
The one that worried me was :-
But Shannon Nelson, an 18-year-old athlete from outside of Chicago, wonders about the vaccine. She got the HPV shot at the same time as two other vaccines. Within a week, she developed Guillian-Barre Syndrome (GBS), a mysterious autoimmune disorder that causes muscle weakness and paralysis. In Nelson's case, she developed paralysis that lasted for over two months.
"I couldn't sit up in bed, I could not lift up my arms," she recalls. "I appear recovered but I'm not. I can't feel my hands and feet that good."
Nelson's parents reported what happened to their daughter to U.S. health authorities. So did more than a dozen other people who suspected their cases of GBS were linked to the HPV vaccine after they received it either on its own or with other vaccines.
The CDC says they cannot prove a link.
Surely, the CDC should be trying to prove that there is no link.
Initially I thought this was wonderful until I read more about it. Apparently the side effects are terrible and are occurring in percentages far too great to consider the vaccine "ready". Plus it's only effective against 4 strains... hardly effective at all.
I've told my daughter that I want to be informed if they try to give her any shots at school and that they are not to do so without my permission.
If odd that the Canadian government websites are saying no side effects whereas many other site are showing problems - albeit minor and short lived.
The one that worried me was :-
But Shannon Nelson, an 18-year-old athlete from outside of Chicago, wonders about the vaccine. She got the HPV shot at the same time as two other vaccines. Within a week, she developed Guillian-Barre Syndrome (GBS), a mysterious autoimmune disorder that causes muscle weakness and paralysis. In Nelson's case, she developed paralysis that lasted for over two months.
"I couldn't sit up in bed, I could not lift up my arms," she recalls. "I appear recovered but I'm not. I can't feel my hands and feet that good."
Nelson's parents reported what happened to their daughter to U.S. health authorities. So did more than a dozen other people who suspected their cases of GBS were linked to the HPV vaccine after they received it either on its own or with other vaccines.
The CDC says they cannot prove a link.
Surely, the CDC should be trying to prove that there is no link.