Unreported Rape

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:49 pm

If you are healing from sexual assault and you get out of bed in the morning,

You are doing well.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you hold down a job,

You are amazing.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you are still remotely pleasant to others,

You are a lot nicer than me.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you cannot always be there for a friend,

You are still a good friend and a strong enough person to know what is best for you.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you decide to tell your story,

You are brave.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you decide that you are not ready to tell your story,

You are also brave.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you cry daily or have nightmares,

You are normal.

If you are healing from sexual assault and seeing happy, healthy people makes you sad, angry, jealous and worse,

Join the club.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you decide to press charges against your perpetrator,

You have incredible courage.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you cannot or choose not to press charges against your perpetrator,

Your perpetrator is still the one to blame, and you are smart for knowing what you can handle.

If you are healing from sexual assault and think that what happened was your fault,

you are wrong, but you are not alone.

If you are healing from sexual assault and feel like your significant other truly understands and is 100% supportive,

He or she is rare and a keeper.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you have a good support system,

It will help A LOT.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you don't have enough people who understand what you are going through, I strongly recommend joining a support group.

If you are healing from sexual assault but still looking to the future,

you are a survivor.

__________________

from magenta flame......

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:53 pm

Sheryl;723514 wrote: Please tell me where RG implies this??

Is that all you got from that?

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=10

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:54 pm

guppy;723518 wrote: If you are healing from sexual assault and you get out of bed in the morning,

You are doing well.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you hold down a job,

You are amazing.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you are still remotely pleasant to others,

You are a lot nicer than me.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you cannot always be there for a friend,

You are still a good friend and a strong enough person to know what is best for you.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you decide to tell your story,

You are brave.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you decide that you are not ready to tell your story,

You are also brave.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you cry daily or have nightmares,

You are normal.

If you are healing from sexual assault and seeing happy, healthy people makes you sad, angry, jealous and worse,

Join the club.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you decide to press charges against your perpetrator,

You have incredible courage.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you cannot or choose not to press charges against your perpetrator,

Your perpetrator is still the one to blame, and you are smart for knowing what you can handle.

If you are healing from sexual assault and think that what happened was your fault,

you are wrong, but you are not alone.

If you are healing from sexual assault and feel like your significant other truly understands and is 100% supportive,

He or she is rare and a keeper.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you have a good support system,

It will help A LOT.

If you are healing from sexual assault and you don't have enough people who understand what you are going through, I strongly recommend joining a support group.

If you are healing from sexual assault but still looking to the future,

you are a survivor.

__________________

from magenta flame......

Thank You Magenta! I got a lot from this.....:-4

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:56 pm

very nice post, guppy :-6

(and magenta)

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:56 pm

G-man;723520 wrote: Is that all you got from that?

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=10

And the ETA on the post means nothing?

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:12 pm

Sheryl;723525 wrote: And the ETA on the post means nothing?

Correct.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=24

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:16 pm

So everyone except RG is entitled to an opinion. How nice! :rolleyes:

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:19 pm

Sheryl, what are you so upset over..the fact that the majority do not agree with her opinions?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:22 pm

I am upset about the bulls eye that has been painted on RG's back! She has passionate opinions, she went back and stated it wasn't a personal attack. Yet everyone is on her case. It's reminding me of junior high!

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:37 pm

It doesn't mean anything if someone says "I find you selfish and you disappoint me but it's not personal."

In that case, we might as well say "I think you're foul but I mean that in the nicest of ways." LOL

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:25 am

[QUOTE=Kathy Ellen;723503][QUOTE=koan;723360]To split this from another thread, as so many people have opinions on it, what is the benefit of reporting a rape to which there is no proof or witnesses?

Has anyone here been raped and how did you feel about it?[/QUOTE]

In answer to your question ; Yes, (some here already know this) but it was many year's ago (in my teens).

I was very young and no i didn't report it....what i did do was block it out for many years and the feeling's only resurfaced when my daughter grew close to that age and i realised it could happen to her and i wouldn't always be able to protect her .

If it happened to someone i know now... then yes, of course i would encourge them to report it, that goes without saying ... i would also like to point out that i would never / have never, put myself in a situation where it could happen again .

..... can i also say... i find it very odd that someone who has been violated could act out a fantasy rape situation on a forum - i find that very odd... but each to their own .

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:37 am

True to style, pants.

You are referring to a private forum wherein sexual issues were supposed to be discussed seriously and not for fun as the member who posted the fantasy rape thread failed to realise. I suspected that he wouldn't be able to actually write anything with serious substance and challenged him. I was correct.

I took time to deliberate what might be gained from challenging him and told him that he was to convince me that there was nothing I could have done to stop it. He turned the thread into a variation of the three stooges and that was that.

Do you realise that while some people become very conservative and reclusive, others act out and become quite promiscuous? Many develop fetishes and sometimes people find that acting out their abuse helps them recover from it if it is done consciously. What I suspect you are doing is implying that a rape victim shouldn't have it happen twice unless they were asking for it. I also suspect you get some small joy out of knowing that you are revealing something from a private forum. Though the person who bumbled into starting that thread already broke the privacy of that forum. The same person also started the same thread on the public part of the main forum and I watched lots of people laughing hysterically. I did not write in that thread. Unfortunately my point was lost on the dimwit... and apparently on you.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:46 am

koan;723561 wrote: True to style, pants.

You are referring to a private forum wherein sexual issues were supposed to be discussed seriously and not for fun as the member who posted the fantasy rape thread failed to realise. I suspected that he wouldn't be able to actually write anything with serious substance and challenged him. I was correct.

I took time to deliberate what might be gained from challenging him and told him that he was to convince me that there was nothing I could have done to stop it. He turned the thread into a variation of the three stooges and that was that.

Do you realise that while some people become very conservative and reclusive, others act out and become quite promiscuous? Many develop fetishes and sometimes people find that acting out their abuse helps them recover from it if it is done consciously. What I suspect you are doing is implying that a rape victim shouldn't have it happen twice unless they were asking for it. I also suspect you get some small joy out of knowing that you are revealing something from a private forum. Though the person who bumbled into starting that thread already broke the privacy of that forum. The same person also started the same thread on the public part of the main forum and I watched lots of people laughing hysterically. I did not write in that thread. Unfortunately my point was lost on the dimwit... and apparently on you.

I'm not implying anything and i had no intention of ever naming names and no i do not believe for one nano second that a woman, any woman deserves to Raped .

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:48 am

I'm glad you clarified that.

I'm also glad to have had the chance to tell any other rape victims who have fetishes that they are not weird or bad. It is normal.

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:50 am

pantsonfire321@aol.com;723563 wrote: I'm not implying anything and i had no intention of ever naming namesRather a shoddy paragraph then, wasn't it. You even brought your shoddy friend to watch the fireworks too.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:52 am

Thank you for sharing your story, pants.

My daughter turning 7 was a trigger point for me in the same way.

I was aware of your situation from before but you hadn't wanted to post about it publicly. I hope this is a sign that you have made some advances in your own healing.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:10 am

spot;723567 wrote: Rather a shoddy paragraph then, wasn't it. You even brought your shoddy friend to watch the fireworks too.

Come to think of it, "not naming names" seems awfully like trying to take a punch at me without saying it. Pretty hard to believe that you could know that was about me and expect me not to respond to it as such, pants.

If any onlookers are after a fight you won't find it here.

I never post anything in a public or private forum that I am unwilling to discuss.

The reason for my adding these comments has a sad side. For all the people afraid to talk about their rape... what do you think they feel when they see me attacked when I do talk about it? Sure I'm brave and I'm bold and I'm speaking out for the right reasons but it saddens me that the reasons for feeling shame are reinforced over and over by insensitive comments.

So to those people who think they can't talk about it: I hope one day you can and I hope even more that you find the right person to talk to.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:13 am

ok im not takin side my feelin as a male and my own opion only

ian huntley killed two 11yr old girls

after his trial a woman cam e forward to say huntley had raped her years b4 and not reported it

if she had even if it had not got to court those 2 girls may still be alive

the police cheaks done when he got a job at a school would have shown an arrest

for rape

i feel for any person who have suffered at the hands of another

just my way of thinking

report it if not for yourself for the next person

jess

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am

Well, actually...

The big thing about Ian Huntley was that the school had indeed asked for police clearance before employing him, and the police totally screwed up the checking system that was in place.The former caretaker has been accused of four teenage rapes, four incidents of under-age sex and one indecent assault on an 11-year-old girl. None of that information was disclosed to the school when it asked for a police check on Huntley's background in 2001. Humberside police and North East Lincolnshire social services had files on Huntley but withheld them because of system failures, bureaucratic errors and civil liberties arguments.

Crucially, police intelligence on Huntley was not disclosed to the school because Humberside had deleted "non-conviction information" about Huntley from its database to comply with data protection laws. Instead, the school was told that checks on Huntley showed "no trace" - an indication that there were no convictions, cautions, bindovers or intelligence on file.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... pol118.xml

"the police checks done when he got a job at a school would have shown an arrest for rape"? Evidently not. It might have shown a conviction but that depends on whether a conviction could have been obtained. More often than not it isn't even when a case goes to court.

The police have allegedly tightened their system since then. Convictions in court remain the minority outcome.The two chief constables at the centre of the row over why Ian Huntley, the Soham murderer, was not spotted as a potential killer, will come under strong pressure to resign this week with the expected publication of a damning report. The 200-page report, which was passed to David Blunkett, the home secretary, last week, details a series of blunders by police and the Home Office. It reveals how Huntley was able to take up his job as a school caretaker despite five previous allegations of sex attacks. There are almost certain to be calls for the resignation of David Westwood, chief constable of Humberside — covering Grimsby, where Huntley previously lived; and Tom Lloyd, chief constable of Cambridgeshire — covering Soham, where Huntley killed the schoolgirls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 447627.ece

David Westwood, chief constable of Humberside, was suspended by the Humberside Police Authority after a High Court judicial review supported David Blunkett's claim that the police authority were ultra vires in refusing to suspend him. He was re-instated on 2004-09-14.

Tom Lloyd, chief constable of Cambridgeshire, didn't resign as a result of Ian Huntley either. He resigned after allegations of pestering a woman at a police conference were published some while afterwards.

This is apparently known as accountability.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:22 am

spot;723611 wrote: Well, actually...

The big thing about Ian Huntley was that the school had indeed asked for police clearance before employing him, and the police totally screwed up the checking system that was in place.The former caretaker has been accused of four teenage rapes, four incidents of under-age sex and one indecent assault on an 11-year-old girl. None of that information was disclosed to the school when it asked for a police check on Huntley's background in 2001. Humberside police and North East Lincolnshire social services had files on Huntley but withheld them because of system failures, bureaucratic errors and civil liberties arguments.

Crucially, police intelligence on Huntley was not disclosed to the school because Humberside had deleted "non-conviction information" about Huntley from its database to comply with data protection laws. Instead, the school was told that checks on Huntley showed "no trace" - an indication that there were no convictions, cautions, bindovers or intelligence on file.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... pol118.xml

"the police checks done when he got a job at a school would have shown an arrest for rape"? Evidently not. It might have shown a conviction but that depends on whether a conviction could have been obtained. More often than not it isn't even when a case goes to court.

The police have allegedly tightened their system since then. Convictions in court remain the minority outcome.The two chief constables at the centre of the row over why Ian Huntley, the Soham murderer, was not spotted as a potential killer, will come under strong pressure to resign this week with the expected publication of a damning report. The 200-page report, which was passed to David Blunkett, the home secretary, last week, details a series of blunders by police and the Home Office. It reveals how Huntley was able to take up his job as a school caretaker despite five previous allegations of sex attacks. There are almost certain to be calls for the resignation of David Westwood, chief constable of Humberside — covering Grimsby, where Huntley previously lived; and Tom Lloyd, chief constable of Cambridgeshire — covering Soham, where Huntley killed the schoolgirls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 447627.ece

David Westwood, chief constable of Humberside, was suspended by the Humberside Police Authority after a High Court judicial review supported David Blunkett's claim that the police authority were ultra vires in refusing to suspend him. He was re-instated on 2004-09-14.

Tom Lloyd, chief constable of Cambridgeshire, didn't resign as a result of Ian Huntley either. He resigned after allegations of pestering a woman at a police conference were published some while afterwards.

This is apparently known as accountability.

we can all cut and paste but in this case the failing of the police is not my point the fact remains

after his conviction a woman came forward to say huntley had raped her

it she had gone to the police those 2 children may still be with there parents

if you dont give justice a fair try you may well off failed the next possible victim

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:39 am

We can all cut and paste? I wish it were more common. No I didn't cut and paste, I quoted two newspaper articles to back up my assertion that Ian Huntley already had a list of accusations to the police consisting of four teenage rapes, four incidents of under-age sex and one indecent assault on an 11-year-old girl - why on earth do you think one more accusation would have made any difference? The whole point of my quoting from the Telegraph article was because it contradicted what you'd originally stated as a fact that "police checks done when he got a job at a school would have shown an arrest". What you claimed is obviously untrue because they existed and they didn't get forwarded to the school when they were asked for. I quoted from the newspaper simply to make it clear that I wasn't mistaken and that the error was entirely yours.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:43 am

spot;723631 wrote: We can all cut and paste? I wish it were more common. No I didn't cut and paste, I quoted two newspaper articles to back up my assertion that Ian Huntley already had a list of accusations to the police consisting of four teenage rapes, four incidents of under-age sex and one indecent assault on an 11-year-old girl - why on earth do you think one more accusation would have made any difference? The whole point of my quoting from the Telegraph article was because it contradicted what you'd originally stated as a fact that "police checks done when he got a job at a school would have shown an arrest". What you claimed is obviously untrue because they existed and they didn't get forwarded to the school when they were asked for. I quoted from the newspaper simply to make it clear that I wasn't mistaken and that the error was entirely yours.

that is where ya wrong if this woman had gone to the police it may have lead to a conviction

so he would have been locked up no more victims

so one more could have made a world of differance

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:50 am

What a lot of could haves. Could have resulted in a prosecution? The other previous nine complaints about him hadn't. Could have resulted in a conviction if the police had brought a prosecution on the strength of her complaint? Most don't.

Somewhere out there in the real world there's a woman you're personally accusing of indirect responsibility for those two deaths. That's an outrageous suggestion. The simple reason that the employment checks failed were systemic police failures for which nobody within the police forces took responsibility, not hers.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:01 am

spot;723636 wrote: What a lot of could haves. Could have resulted in a prosecution? The other previous nine complaints about him hadn't. Could have resulted in a conviction if the police had brought a prosecution on the strength of her complaint? Most don't.

Somewhere out there in the real world there's a woman you're personally accusing of indirect responsibility for those two deaths. That's an outrageous suggestion. The simple reason that the employment checks failed were systemic police failures for which nobody within the police forces took responsibility, not hers.

could have is good enough for me

it would have given the 2 little girls a chance of life

if it had been reported there was a chance (could have made a differance)

it was not (could not have made a differance)

i take could have any day

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:06 am

Just to put what you're claiming into perspective the woman you're talking about is called Hailey Giblin and she was eleven years old when she was attacked. The reason she didn't go forward at the time was that "no-one took her seriously".

And you're telling us that "if this woman had gone to the police it may have lead to a conviction so he would have been locked up no more victims"? Your argument with her is, at best, uncharitable.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:17 am

spot;723642 wrote: Just to put what you're claiming into perspective the woman you're talking about is called Hailey Giblin and she was eleven years old when she was attacked. The reason she didn't go forward at the time was that "no-one took her seriously".

And you're telling us that "if this woman had gone to the police it may have lead to a conviction so he would have been locked up no more victims"? Your argument with her is, at best, uncharitable.

no am not saying was her fault

am saying if you are a victim of any crime you should report it

no her name was not the one you have posted

but she was 11

i have stated my opion we could go back and fourth all day so i will post in this thread no more

i have my opion and i stand by it

jess

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:14 am

The victim of a rape is putting herself forward to be victimised again and that is usually the only result. It would be wonderful if we could say otherwise. In Britain, the conviction charges have fallen rapidly over the last decade.

Alcohol is the new "short skirt" if alcohol or drugs are involved there is almost no chance of conviction.

It is morally impossible to blame a rape victim for not reporting when they are treated so poorly by the "justice" system. There has been a current trend in people wanting the names of rape victims released to the press. The media coverage of cases where the accusation was deemed false has sullied the chances of real victims even more.

That case is a perfect example of why victims feel helpless to do anything about it. All those past charges and there he was, working in a school.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:37 am

el guapo;723645 wrote: no am not saying was her fault

am saying if you are a victim of any crime you should report it

no her name was not the one you have posted

but she was 11

i have stated my opion we could go back and fourth all day so i will post in this thread no more

i have my opion and i stand by it

jess

It is great to see others points of view. I admire anyone who can state their thoughts and feelings on a subject. I don't think there is a clean cut answer here, different experiences and circumstances will dictate a persons actions in any given situation.

Its good to see you contributing Jess :-6

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:44 pm

When I was 11 I was attacked by a man, I wasn't raped thank God, but I was abused. I was walking home from school, I took myself straight to my bedroom only coming out to answer the phone to a friend. I told her what happened, she told her Mum and her Mum called my Mum, the police were called.

For me being quizzed by the police and my Mum was as traumatic as the actual assult. I just wanted to forget the whole thing yet everyone just wanted to go over and over things.

I can totally understand why people would not report things as the chance of conviction is very low and the whole thing can be traumatic to keep reliving to people that are trying to prove your lying.

JMO:)

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:07 pm

ok im not the type to tell anyone what is right and wrong. We all have different views and the chance to express then.

Their used to be a guy who lived near us we called him "Uncle Alf" All the kids visited him and he bought us sweets, his nephew and nieces always visited him and his younger brother used to babysit me and my two elder brothers.

Alf moved to a flat about half a mile away and we would go and see him there and run errands. One day he gave me 50p and asked me to go to the shop for a tin of soup, he wanted my friend to stay behind. He brushed past me and back then I didnt understand why it didnt feel "normal"(he had an erection but I learnt this later in life) and i felt uneasy and asked my friend to come with me, we left there and i told her i didnt want to return. We ran home and worried about bumping into him as we had kept the 50p and felt we had done wrong.

I never mentioned this again till I was 12 years old and summonsed to the headmasters office in high school. My mum and brother were there with a police officer and both were crying.

I was asked about "Uncle Alf" and all the visits, my initial thought was that I was in trouble for the 50p.

Ended up that Alf was a horrific peodophile. I had to go to court and give evidence and I thank god was never actually touched.

The case went to crown court, their were over two dozen victims including his own nephew and nieces, he had been sexually abusing and raping them from 2 years of age.

He got 8 years in Jail.

Like I said were all different, I personally felt ashamed of my involvement in this for years, blamed myself even though his family and mine were friends and it was a close knit village. I never talked about it.

I dont know if things would of been different if after that time at his flat id gone home and told my parents. I was 8 years old and didnt look on it as a sexual thing as it was alien to me.

Aged 20 I was working in a local pub to earn money to go and work in Spain and I was horrified to see Alf standing at the bar waiting for me to serve him. Id of rather of ate dog muck and took an early break.

It wasnt long before I heard that he was up to no good again and shortly after back in prison.

Im not sure as Im writing the end of this, why I have just revealed all this to you all, not even sure its relevant to Koan's original post. I only read this whole post tonight and it must of triggered off something inside me to post this. Sorry if its innapropriate.

To all the peeps who posted of their own experiences im glad to see you got over your traumas and I wish you the best for the future.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:19 pm

It's entirely appropriate to the thread.

The way you told it captures a wide range of emotions. That was a close brush with disaster for you and your friend. Close enough to cause trauma as well.

You said yourself that he continued even after jail so I hope that helps you not feel responsible for anything. How could you report what you didn't even understand anyway?

Thanks for adding to the thread.

I don't know that it is ever over but it is possible to get one's life back and be happy again.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:22 pm

SuzyB;723871 wrote: When I was 11 I was attacked by a man, I wasn't raped thank God, but I was abused. I was walking home from school, I took myself straight to my bedroom only coming out to answer the phone to a friend. I told her what happened, she told her Mum and her Mum called my Mum, the police were called.

For me being quizzed by the police and my Mum was as traumatic as the actual assult. I just wanted to forget the whole thing yet everyone just wanted to go over and over things.

I can totally understand why people would not report things as the chance of conviction is very low and the whole thing can be traumatic to keep reliving to people that are trying to prove your lying.

JMO:)

What you went through is very traumatic too. An assault that falls short of rape can be just as damaging. I know what you mean about the questioning.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:32 am

Thanks Koan, weird me spilling it out like that as I havent told many people about it all, infact some of my closest friends dont know......Obviously reading this post triggered something inside me that felt compelled to share it with you.

I am totally fine but often relieve that horrid crown court experience which was so damn scary, in the stand I was more or less shouted at for talking too quiet, remember this was like 28 years ago and things were done differently.

I am an over protective mum that doesnt allow her children to play out, they are 9 and 8 years (both girls) so maybe it has had lasting effects.

Your totally spot on Koan in saying that I couldnt report on something I didnt understand, makes me see in from an abused persons prospective as its not only childrens minds that cant comprehend abuse, lots of adults do too.....Self blame etc...