spot;728283 wrote: I'm learning a lot, exploring yours. I can't conceive that there's someone in the world who would want eleven year old children executed by their government, it completely baffles me.
It baffles me that you believe it is right & justified that 2 boys - yes aged 10 who killed a boy aged TWO!!! - are after eight years allowed to walk free. Are we really living in a society were this is deemed acceptable? What's all this blah blah blah about their rights, for crying out loud? Have you completely forgotten what they done to that child? How scared & frightened he would have been? The pain and suffering he endured at the hands of these '10 year-old' boys? He was crying, yes CRYING for his parents. So yes, if my son had been led away by the hand, walked/dragged/kicked & punched for 2 hours, dropped on his head, attempted drowning, and all this before the REAL brutality begun, which incidently makes me sick to the pit of my stomach to think about, then you better damn well believe I would hunt them down and kill them if they were ever released like these 2 animals were. I just prey that they are not now living in my neighborhood with my little boy vulnerable to sick predetors like them. I wonder how forgiving you would be if it were your child that suffered such unthinkable cruelty? Could you look at your son's mutilated body and say to his killers you were only 10 years old and didn't know what you were doing? I seriously doubt any loving parent could. Society failed that little boy and the justice system has failed his parents by letting his killers free after only 8 years, so you have no idea how much I hope that they are hunted down and dealt the same treatment they found so amusing to inflict upon another. And before you come back with more comments about executing 11 year-olds I suggest you first look on the web, find a picture of the baby boy they tortured and put yourself in his place .... if you can still come away believing that justice has been served then that is what's wrong with society & the times we live in.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Gosh, he came back.
mhyh007;728695 wrote: Are we really living in a society were this is deemed acceptable?
Yes, thank goodness, that's exactly what we're doing.
I'm slowly coming to realize why we can't live in a democracy too.
mhyh007;728695 wrote: Are we really living in a society were this is deemed acceptable?
Yes, thank goodness, that's exactly what we're doing.
I'm slowly coming to realize why we can't live in a democracy too.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
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UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
spot;728295 wrote: I don't see that forgive comes into it at all, it's a matter of salvage. Society's not in a position grant or withhold forgiveness ever, that's a matter for those who were bereaved. Some do, some don't. Perhaps you'd like to give the right to impose execution to the bereaved instead of to the court?
Coming back to this, I have to disagree somewhat. I think society has every right to give or refuse forgiveness when a member of its collective fabric has been torn away and put asunder by someone's dastardly doing. That person/victim's death robs society of potential goodness and service that it may have used to better itself.
As for letting the bereaved handle the punishment or execution, I have said for years how much smarter and more desirable I think that would be.
Coming back to this, I have to disagree somewhat. I think society has every right to give or refuse forgiveness when a member of its collective fabric has been torn away and put asunder by someone's dastardly doing. That person/victim's death robs society of potential goodness and service that it may have used to better itself.
As for letting the bereaved handle the punishment or execution, I have said for years how much smarter and more desirable I think that would be.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
spot;728701 wrote: Gosh, he came back.
Yes, thank goodness, that's exactly what we're doing.
I'm slowly coming to realize why we can't live in a democracy too.
With people like you finding acts like this acceptable it's no wonder killings are a common occurrence and sadly too often a feature of our news bulletins. So we've now reached a place were people can take a life, apologise & feel remorse, wait a few meagre years and bingo! your back out as a member of this wonderful civilised society. Unbelievable! Let's just hope that nothing so devastating ever happens to your family that would change your democratic views. And incidently I think you'll find your views are definitely in the minority, thank goodness!
Yes, thank goodness, that's exactly what we're doing.
I'm slowly coming to realize why we can't live in a democracy too.
With people like you finding acts like this acceptable it's no wonder killings are a common occurrence and sadly too often a feature of our news bulletins. So we've now reached a place were people can take a life, apologise & feel remorse, wait a few meagre years and bingo! your back out as a member of this wonderful civilised society. Unbelievable! Let's just hope that nothing so devastating ever happens to your family that would change your democratic views. And incidently I think you'll find your views are definitely in the minority, thank goodness!
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
mhyh007;728977 wrote: With people like you finding acts like this acceptable it's no wonder killings are a common occurrence and sadly too often a feature of our news bulletins. So we've now reached a place were people can take a life, apologise & feel remorse, wait a few meagre years and bingo! your back out as a member of this wonderful civilised society. Unbelievable! Let's just hope that nothing so devastating ever happens to your family that would change your democratic views. And incidently I think you'll find your views are definitely in the minority, thank goodness!
This is a particularly heinous crime and personally I have my doubts they should be let out. Some people are so damaged they will always be a risk.
But tell me what would you do if one sibling fighting with another picks up an axe or a screwdriver or a baseball bat that happens to be handy and kills the other. (I had a nephew that actually did try to use an axe in the heat of anger when six years old on his older brother who was tormenting him- although luckily there was no real damage done and now they laugh about it.) Now say they were five and six-would you still execute the killer or would you make allowances for the age and inability to realise the consequences of the action? or jealous three year shoves baby brother off his chair and cracks his skull. Would you still execute or would you take in to account age and intention of the three year old.
This is a particularly heinous crime and personally I have my doubts they should be let out. Some people are so damaged they will always be a risk.
But tell me what would you do if one sibling fighting with another picks up an axe or a screwdriver or a baseball bat that happens to be handy and kills the other. (I had a nephew that actually did try to use an axe in the heat of anger when six years old on his older brother who was tormenting him- although luckily there was no real damage done and now they laugh about it.) Now say they were five and six-would you still execute the killer or would you make allowances for the age and inability to realise the consequences of the action? or jealous three year shoves baby brother off his chair and cracks his skull. Would you still execute or would you take in to account age and intention of the three year old.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Surely the circumstances you depict are altogether different? There would be no previous intent in these situations. But those who deliberately plan and calmly commit such violent killings should surely not be permitted to rejoin society? Yes, those boys were only 10 years old but they set out from the start to 'get a kid' and indeed James Bulger was not their first attempted victim that day. At anytime after they took him they could have walked away & just left him to be found and returned safely to his family but they purposely took his life, not out of rage or a result of an argument, but just because they could. It sickens me when people defend their rights to freedom. I'm not saying they should have been executed (although on reflection I don't think bringing back corporal punishment for heinous crimes such as this would be such a bad thing) but they certainly should never have been set free. People who have never committed a serious crime in their lives are locked up for comparatively trivial matters and yet mindless yobs that terrorise innocent people are given far too lenient sentences. When the legal system fails to protect us from these people then I believe there will come a time when those bereaved by their vicious acts will stand up and no longer accept the verdicts handed down by those who quite frankly should know better. I feel ashamed to be part of a society that can so easily ignore the suffering that little boy endured at the hands of 2 evil people, whose human rights have taken precedence over their victims. Fourteen years on and when you read about what they done to him it might as well have been yesterday for the insignificant time they've been made to serve. They may no longer be deemed as a threat to the public but have they really, honestly served a time befitting of their crime ¦? In my opinion not even close.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
mhyh007;729014 wrote: Surely the circumstances you depict are altogether different? There would be no previous intent in these situations. But those who deliberately plan and calmly commit such violent killings should surely not be permitted to rejoin society? Yes, those boys were only 10 years old but they set out from the start to 'get a kid' and indeed James Bulger was not their first attempted victim that day. At anytime after they took him they could have walked away & just left him to be found and returned safely to his family but they purposely took his life, not out of rage or a result of an argument, but just because they could. It sickens me when people defend their rights to freedom. I'm not saying they should have been executed (although on reflection I don't think bringing back corporal punishment for heinous crimes such as this would be such a bad thing) but they certainly should never have been set free. People who have never committed a serious crime in their lives are locked up for comparatively trivial matters and yet mindless yobs that terrorise innocent people are given far too lenient sentences. When the legal system fails to protect us from these people then I believe there will come a time when those bereaved by their vicious acts will stand up and no longer accept the verdicts handed down by those who quite frankly should know better. I feel ashamed to be part of a society that can so easily ignore the suffering that little boy endured at the hands of 2 evil people, whose human rights have taken precedence over their victims. Fourteen years on and when you read about what they done to him it might as well have been yesterday for the insignificant time they've been made to serve. They may no longer be deemed as a threat to the public but have they really, honestly served a time befitting of their crime ¦? In my opinion not even close.
On the latter point I am inclined to agree with you. On the other hand one of the things the courts are supposed to take in to account is the culpability of the accused. If someone is insane are they truly responsible for what they do? If a child does something like this are they truly culpable and aware of what they do or are there mitigating circumstances. It's why the jury system was devised-in theory your peers are best able to decide if -for example you kill someone who attacks you-whether the action was murder or self defence. The martin case, that people are fond of citing of someone going to jail for defending himself, it was a jury that decided he committed murder and did not act in self defence.
Someone's childhood possibly could be traumatic enough to make them permanently a danger to society does that make them wholly culpable-doesn't mean I want them walking the streets. Killing them solves nothing and what is the difference between their cold blooded murder and what they did?
On the latter point I am inclined to agree with you. On the other hand one of the things the courts are supposed to take in to account is the culpability of the accused. If someone is insane are they truly responsible for what they do? If a child does something like this are they truly culpable and aware of what they do or are there mitigating circumstances. It's why the jury system was devised-in theory your peers are best able to decide if -for example you kill someone who attacks you-whether the action was murder or self defence. The martin case, that people are fond of citing of someone going to jail for defending himself, it was a jury that decided he committed murder and did not act in self defence.
Someone's childhood possibly could be traumatic enough to make them permanently a danger to society does that make them wholly culpable-doesn't mean I want them walking the streets. Killing them solves nothing and what is the difference between their cold blooded murder and what they did?
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Agreed, execution does seem harsh and as you ask, is there really a difference between their crime and taking their life in return? Tough one to answer as you get into the whole argument of miscarriage of justice etc. But as a deterrent would it not save more lives? Sure, people would continue to kill but perhaps it wouldn't be quite the commonplace event it has become. But perhaps we're only discussing this because the justice system is so lacking. When a jury does find a person guilty they do not then determine the sentence to be given and this is where our system seems to be failing. A youth steals a car, high on drugs and mounts a pavement killing an infant in a pram. He is then found guilty in a court. What sentence is he given? A few months.... how can that be right? The young boy who was shot dead as he rode home on his bike, would his killers have pulled the trigger if they thought for a moment that they would serve the rest of their lives in jail or face a death penalty? They know they can pull the trigger, perhaps get caught, serve a few years and they're back out again; it's common standard knowledge. Their victims don't get that second chance and we're failing them by failing to make their killers accountable to the full extent of our ability. Some offenders may be truly sorry for what they have done, but that doesn't undo their actions and if they take a life and have to give theirs in return, then so be it. However, I would personally prefer to see life imprisonment for any intentional, cold-blooded murder with absolutely no question of parole thereby spending the rest of their lives reflecting behind bars on what they have done. Corporal punishment almost seems a too easy a way out for them.
But back to your comment on children’s actions being a direct consequence of their upbringing. To what extent do you attribute blame on one’s upbringing? There will always be people who suffer from a poor upbringing & varying levels of abuse, but they don’t all go on to commit barbaric offences against other human beings. Surely there must be a point where we say there can be no excuses for what you have done. And if we are going to use excuses such as poor upbringings then perhaps those responsible for creating those environments should be held accountable. If you treat your child so appallingly that they feel compelled to go out and commit a vicious crime then shouldn’t you yourself share that responsibility? It would be interesting to see if the quality of parenting in these circumstances improves.
But back to your comment on children’s actions being a direct consequence of their upbringing. To what extent do you attribute blame on one’s upbringing? There will always be people who suffer from a poor upbringing & varying levels of abuse, but they don’t all go on to commit barbaric offences against other human beings. Surely there must be a point where we say there can be no excuses for what you have done. And if we are going to use excuses such as poor upbringings then perhaps those responsible for creating those environments should be held accountable. If you treat your child so appallingly that they feel compelled to go out and commit a vicious crime then shouldn’t you yourself share that responsibility? It would be interesting to see if the quality of parenting in these circumstances improves.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
posted mhyhoo007
Agreed, execution does seem harsh and as you ask, is there really a difference between their crime and taking their life in return? Tough one to answer as you get into the whole argument of miscarriage of justice etc. But as a deterrent would it not save more lives? Sure, people would continue to kill but perhaps it wouldn't be quite the commonplace event it has become. But perhaps we're only discussing this because the justice system is so lacking. When a jury does find a person guilty they do not then determine the sentence to be given and this is where our system seems to be failing. A youth steals a car, high on drugs and mounts a pavement killing an infant in a pram. He is then found guilty in a court. What sentence is he given? A few months.... how can that be right? The young boy who was shot dead as he rode home on his bike, would his killers have pulled the trigger if they thought for a moment that they would serve the rest of their lives in jail or face a death penalty? They know they can pull the trigger, perhaps get caught, serve a few years and they're back out again; it's common standard knowledge. Their victims don't get that second chance and we're failing them by failing to make their killers accountable to the full extent of our ability. Some offenders may be truly sorry for what they have done, but that doesn't undo their actions and if they take a life and have to give theirs in return, then so be it. However, I would personally prefer to see life imprisonment for any intentional, cold-blooded murder with absolutely no question of parole thereby spending the rest of their lives reflecting behind bars on what they have done. Corporal punishment almost seems a too easy a way out for them.
Short answer is no execution isn't a deterrent and in this country there have been a number of miscarriages of justice that would have seen the wrong people executed-not only would they be dead but the real killer would have got away with it. It's not draconian punishment that is a deterrent it's the certainty of being caught that is. As to the sentencing don't forget who lays down the sentencing guidelines (don't know where you are but I'm in the UK) it's not necessarily the judges who are at fault often they are restricted in the sentence they can give out. There is also a problem with judges who are detached from reality in terms of the severity of the crime committed but then things can be changes.
We don't have execution or borstals or the birch any more because they actually didn't work the way they were supposed to. The level of violence in society is a lot worse in the past than it is now. Bullying in schools was always commonplace but now we think it no longer something we should tolerate or a necessary part of growing up and anyone committing suicide because of it nothing but a sad loser. Things like child abuse domestic abuse etc were just as prevalent we just don't pretend it's not happening any more or turn a blind eye so readily. people who have simple solutions for all society's ills usually are the last ones that should be listened to. Politicians beating a drum on a band wagon are usually just playing to what they think is the most popular tune.
But back to your comment on children’s actions being a direct consequence of their upbringing. To what extent do you attribute blame on one’s upbringing? There will always be people who suffer from a poor upbringing & varying levels of abuse, but they don’t all go on to commit barbaric offences against other human beings. Surely there must be a point where we say there can be no excuses for what you have done. And if we are going to use excuses such as poor upbringings then perhaps those responsible for creating those environments should be held accountable. If you treat your child so appallingly that they feel compelled to go out and commit a vicious crime then shouldn’t you yourself share that responsibility? It would be interesting to see if the quality of parenting in these circumstances improves.
Good question and I don' have a pat answer. It's obviously a factor but at what point can you turn round and say-right you're an adult and should be able to leave your past behind, you are now wholly responsible for what you do. When I was a kid, like most, I did things I shouldn't have that my parents never knew about whose fault was it if I got caught? bet you did things as well. The line between a kid throwing a brick throw a window is being naughty or being a hopeless vandal that needs to be punished severely kind of varies depending on where they're from does it not? A kid from a nice background is viewed differently from a wee thug from a council scheme, which may be an ever so slightly cynical way of looking at things.
Executing these two would not bring jamie bulger back nor would it do anything to prevent similar things happening in the future. Cold blooded murder for a "good" reason is still cold blooded murder. Should someone capable of executing a child be an accepted member of society? Should those who would stand and cheer them on be accepted? Why is what they did so reprehensible but their cold blooded killing somehow OK?
Arguably both may be so damaged they should never be released and yes I do think it diminishes their crime to let them out after so short a time.
Agreed, execution does seem harsh and as you ask, is there really a difference between their crime and taking their life in return? Tough one to answer as you get into the whole argument of miscarriage of justice etc. But as a deterrent would it not save more lives? Sure, people would continue to kill but perhaps it wouldn't be quite the commonplace event it has become. But perhaps we're only discussing this because the justice system is so lacking. When a jury does find a person guilty they do not then determine the sentence to be given and this is where our system seems to be failing. A youth steals a car, high on drugs and mounts a pavement killing an infant in a pram. He is then found guilty in a court. What sentence is he given? A few months.... how can that be right? The young boy who was shot dead as he rode home on his bike, would his killers have pulled the trigger if they thought for a moment that they would serve the rest of their lives in jail or face a death penalty? They know they can pull the trigger, perhaps get caught, serve a few years and they're back out again; it's common standard knowledge. Their victims don't get that second chance and we're failing them by failing to make their killers accountable to the full extent of our ability. Some offenders may be truly sorry for what they have done, but that doesn't undo their actions and if they take a life and have to give theirs in return, then so be it. However, I would personally prefer to see life imprisonment for any intentional, cold-blooded murder with absolutely no question of parole thereby spending the rest of their lives reflecting behind bars on what they have done. Corporal punishment almost seems a too easy a way out for them.
Short answer is no execution isn't a deterrent and in this country there have been a number of miscarriages of justice that would have seen the wrong people executed-not only would they be dead but the real killer would have got away with it. It's not draconian punishment that is a deterrent it's the certainty of being caught that is. As to the sentencing don't forget who lays down the sentencing guidelines (don't know where you are but I'm in the UK) it's not necessarily the judges who are at fault often they are restricted in the sentence they can give out. There is also a problem with judges who are detached from reality in terms of the severity of the crime committed but then things can be changes.
We don't have execution or borstals or the birch any more because they actually didn't work the way they were supposed to. The level of violence in society is a lot worse in the past than it is now. Bullying in schools was always commonplace but now we think it no longer something we should tolerate or a necessary part of growing up and anyone committing suicide because of it nothing but a sad loser. Things like child abuse domestic abuse etc were just as prevalent we just don't pretend it's not happening any more or turn a blind eye so readily. people who have simple solutions for all society's ills usually are the last ones that should be listened to. Politicians beating a drum on a band wagon are usually just playing to what they think is the most popular tune.
But back to your comment on children’s actions being a direct consequence of their upbringing. To what extent do you attribute blame on one’s upbringing? There will always be people who suffer from a poor upbringing & varying levels of abuse, but they don’t all go on to commit barbaric offences against other human beings. Surely there must be a point where we say there can be no excuses for what you have done. And if we are going to use excuses such as poor upbringings then perhaps those responsible for creating those environments should be held accountable. If you treat your child so appallingly that they feel compelled to go out and commit a vicious crime then shouldn’t you yourself share that responsibility? It would be interesting to see if the quality of parenting in these circumstances improves.
Good question and I don' have a pat answer. It's obviously a factor but at what point can you turn round and say-right you're an adult and should be able to leave your past behind, you are now wholly responsible for what you do. When I was a kid, like most, I did things I shouldn't have that my parents never knew about whose fault was it if I got caught? bet you did things as well. The line between a kid throwing a brick throw a window is being naughty or being a hopeless vandal that needs to be punished severely kind of varies depending on where they're from does it not? A kid from a nice background is viewed differently from a wee thug from a council scheme, which may be an ever so slightly cynical way of looking at things.
Executing these two would not bring jamie bulger back nor would it do anything to prevent similar things happening in the future. Cold blooded murder for a "good" reason is still cold blooded murder. Should someone capable of executing a child be an accepted member of society? Should those who would stand and cheer them on be accepted? Why is what they did so reprehensible but their cold blooded killing somehow OK?
Arguably both may be so damaged they should never be released and yes I do think it diminishes their crime to let them out after so short a time.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
if we can't rehabilitate two little boys who both had come from dreadful dysfunctional backgrounds, then who can we rehabilitate?
And those of you who would have them executed, legally murdered, then you would have their blood on your hands, just as they have baby James blood on theirs, and as an adult with higher reasoning and comprehension than a ten year old kid, that makes you a worse sort of evil.
And those of you who would have them executed, legally murdered, then you would have their blood on your hands, just as they have baby James blood on theirs, and as an adult with higher reasoning and comprehension than a ten year old kid, that makes you a worse sort of evil.
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RedGlitter
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UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
I have to disagree. I am of the faction that believes in "an eye for an eye" although for me there is no religious connotation. It's simply a matter of what is right and I believe a life for a life is right as well as fair. I maintain if a ten year old kid can commit a crime like the one we're discussing, then he or she does not deserve my compassion and should be eliminated from our society.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
RedGlitter;729976 wrote: I have to disagree. I am of the faction that believes in "an eye for an eye" although for me there is no religious connotation. It's simply a matter of what is right and I believe a life for a life is right as well as fair. I maintain if a ten year old kid can commit a crime like the one we're discussing, then he or she does not deserve my compassion and should be eliminated from our society.
Then I would put it to you that an adult capable of cold bloodedly killing two ten year old should equally be eliminated from our society.
Then I would put it to you that an adult capable of cold bloodedly killing two ten year old should equally be eliminated from our society.
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RedGlitter
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UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
gmc;730044 wrote: Then I would put it to you that an adult capable of cold bloodedly killing two ten year old should equally be eliminated from our society.
I think what the kids did was in cold blood. Executing them would not have been in cold blood at all. It would have been justice. Big difference in my opinion.
I think what the kids did was in cold blood. Executing them would not have been in cold blood at all. It would have been justice. Big difference in my opinion.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
wrong...the frontal lobe is not fully developed in children of that age...in fact not until we are twenty or thereabouts which is why children and teenagers often make so many stupid judgement calls
the frontal lobe is what helps us develop rational thinking...so if a ten year old kills, it is not in cold blood, they simply do not have the rational thought process necessary to do so. If you, however, as a rationally thinking human, think it's okay to kill children, whether an eye for an eye or whatever...that does indeed make YOU a cold blooded killer. You have thought it through and decided their life must end. I personally find that far more abhorrent than than neglected and ferral ten year olds killing.
Fortunately for society, people like you are not in charge, apart from in countries with fanatical religious beliefs.
the frontal lobe is what helps us develop rational thinking...so if a ten year old kills, it is not in cold blood, they simply do not have the rational thought process necessary to do so. If you, however, as a rationally thinking human, think it's okay to kill children, whether an eye for an eye or whatever...that does indeed make YOU a cold blooded killer. You have thought it through and decided their life must end. I personally find that far more abhorrent than than neglected and ferral ten year olds killing.
Fortunately for society, people like you are not in charge, apart from in countries with fanatical religious beliefs.
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RedGlitter
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UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
booradley;730221 wrote: wrong...the frontal lobe is not fully developed in children of that age...in fact not until we are twenty or thereabouts which is why children and teenagers often make so many stupid judgement calls
the frontal lobe is what helps us develop rational thinking...so if a ten year old kills, it is not in cold blood, they simply do not have the rational thought process necessary to do so. If you, however, as a rationally thinking human, think it's okay to kill children, whether an eye for an eye or whatever...that does indeed make YOU a cold blooded killer. You have thought it through and decided their life must end. I personally find that far more abhorrent than than neglected and ferral ten year olds killing.
Fortunately for society, people like you are not in charge, apart from in countries with fanatical religious beliefs.
Wrong. I don't go for that, booradley. A child who does such a thing is no longer precious or innocent or any other tripe we normally apply to kids. He is a murderer. That lobe theory could be expanded to fit all kinds of people and then everyone would get off the hook a lot easier than they already do.
If "people like me" were in charge as you say, I think the world would be a better and far safer place for all, including people like yourself.
the frontal lobe is what helps us develop rational thinking...so if a ten year old kills, it is not in cold blood, they simply do not have the rational thought process necessary to do so. If you, however, as a rationally thinking human, think it's okay to kill children, whether an eye for an eye or whatever...that does indeed make YOU a cold blooded killer. You have thought it through and decided their life must end. I personally find that far more abhorrent than than neglected and ferral ten year olds killing.
Fortunately for society, people like you are not in charge, apart from in countries with fanatical religious beliefs.
Wrong. I don't go for that, booradley. A child who does such a thing is no longer precious or innocent or any other tripe we normally apply to kids. He is a murderer. That lobe theory could be expanded to fit all kinds of people and then everyone would get off the hook a lot easier than they already do.
If "people like me" were in charge as you say, I think the world would be a better and far safer place for all, including people like yourself.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
a child who does such terrible things was never innocent or precious and there lies the immediate problem. And if people with strong beliefs such as you hold were in charge of anything, even crisp packets, I would not feel any safer. God forbid people have mental health problems, post natal depression, suffer from sexual abuse, domestic abuse, being beaten or just plain neglected as a child.
the frontal lobe "theory" is not a theory, it is a biological fact and part of the growth and senescence path all human beings go through. You can never justify killing ten year olds, in the name of justice, getting off the hook, frontal lobe "tripe" or anything else. Dogs that bite should be put down, not children.
the frontal lobe "theory" is not a theory, it is a biological fact and part of the growth and senescence path all human beings go through. You can never justify killing ten year olds, in the name of justice, getting off the hook, frontal lobe "tripe" or anything else. Dogs that bite should be put down, not children.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
booradley;730221 wrote: wrong...the frontal lobe is not fully developed in children of that age...in fact not until we are twenty or thereabouts which is why children and teenagers often make so many stupid judgement calls
the frontal lobe is what helps us develop rational thinking...so if a ten year old kills, it is not in cold blood, they simply do not have the rational thought process necessary to do so. If you, however, as a rationally thinking human, think it's okay to kill children, whether an eye for an eye or whatever...that does indeed make YOU a cold blooded killer. You have thought it through and decided their life must end. I personally find that far more abhorrent than than neglected and ferral ten year olds killing.
Fortunately for society, people like you are not in charge, apart from in countries with fanatical religious beliefs.
I'm sorry but this was far form a 'stupid judgment call'. Two ten-year olds committed cold-blooded murder. Now I understand that some people may not like to believe our youth capable of such things but there it is, cold fact, no frontal lobe or deprived childhood excuses. They set out to kill and they did. These are killers and they are now walking our streets again. Unfortunately people who seem to think like you ARE in charge and THAT is most unfortunate for our society. Shame on you, and others like you, for defending such vicious yobs, it would be a better world if people of your thinking were in charge of nothing more than those 'crisp packets'.
the frontal lobe is what helps us develop rational thinking...so if a ten year old kills, it is not in cold blood, they simply do not have the rational thought process necessary to do so. If you, however, as a rationally thinking human, think it's okay to kill children, whether an eye for an eye or whatever...that does indeed make YOU a cold blooded killer. You have thought it through and decided their life must end. I personally find that far more abhorrent than than neglected and ferral ten year olds killing.
Fortunately for society, people like you are not in charge, apart from in countries with fanatical religious beliefs.
I'm sorry but this was far form a 'stupid judgment call'. Two ten-year olds committed cold-blooded murder. Now I understand that some people may not like to believe our youth capable of such things but there it is, cold fact, no frontal lobe or deprived childhood excuses. They set out to kill and they did. These are killers and they are now walking our streets again. Unfortunately people who seem to think like you ARE in charge and THAT is most unfortunate for our society. Shame on you, and others like you, for defending such vicious yobs, it would be a better world if people of your thinking were in charge of nothing more than those 'crisp packets'.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
they were just ten. Would you really be the one to flick the switch, fire the gun, give the lethal injection? a puny kid standing in front of you and you to be the one who kills them? If you can honestly answer that "yes" then what does that say about you as a human being?
I personally don't think they are a danger to me or society now, more a danger to themselves.
what about Mary Bell? another child who killed children. why not track her down and give her what for as well....she's been a real menace since she was released from prison
I personally don't think they are a danger to me or society now, more a danger to themselves.
what about Mary Bell? another child who killed children. why not track her down and give her what for as well....she's been a real menace since she was released from prison
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
mhyh007;730321 wrote: I'm sorry but this was far form a 'stupid judgment call'. Two ten-year olds committed cold-blooded murder. Now I understand that some people may not like to believe our youth capable of such things but there it is, cold fact, no frontal lobe or deprived childhood excuses. They set out to kill and they did. These are killers and they are now walking our streets again. Unfortunately people who seem to think like you ARE in charge and THAT is most unfortunate for our society. Shame on you, and others like you, for defending such vicious yobs, it would be a better world if people of your thinking were in charge of nothing more than those 'crisp packets'.
To quote Lord Woolf again, with regard to releasing the children when they were released rather than holding them beyond the age of eighteen:They are both now 18 years of age. Being 18 they would be due to be transferred to young offenders' institutions. The reports make clear that the transfer would be likely to undo much of the good work to which I have referred. Having been living in an unnaturally protected environment, they are unprepared for the very different circumstances in which they would be detained in a young offenders' institution. They are unlikely to be able to cope, at least at first, with the corrosive atmosphere with which they could be faced if transferred. There is also the danger of their being exposed to drugs.
Their release will not end their punishment. Having become responsible young men, they will have to live with, and will be marked by, what they did when children of 10. Their crime is not one which is expunged by the Rehabilitation Act 1974. They will be on licence and liable to be recalled to custody for the rest of their lives if they do not comply with the terms of their licence.
Releasing them rather than putting them into institutions was the best way of salvaging their lives. I see no reason whatever why these two victims of their environment shouldn't have been given the best possible chance of re-integration into society. Obviously you'd prefer that they be punished further. I fail to see the need to punish them, as opposed to correct them, at all. They seem to have been corrected. They seem to pose no greater risk to society at large than I do. I rely on professional judgements in that regard.
To quote Lord Woolf again, with regard to releasing the children when they were released rather than holding them beyond the age of eighteen:They are both now 18 years of age. Being 18 they would be due to be transferred to young offenders' institutions. The reports make clear that the transfer would be likely to undo much of the good work to which I have referred. Having been living in an unnaturally protected environment, they are unprepared for the very different circumstances in which they would be detained in a young offenders' institution. They are unlikely to be able to cope, at least at first, with the corrosive atmosphere with which they could be faced if transferred. There is also the danger of their being exposed to drugs.
Their release will not end their punishment. Having become responsible young men, they will have to live with, and will be marked by, what they did when children of 10. Their crime is not one which is expunged by the Rehabilitation Act 1974. They will be on licence and liable to be recalled to custody for the rest of their lives if they do not comply with the terms of their licence.
Releasing them rather than putting them into institutions was the best way of salvaging their lives. I see no reason whatever why these two victims of their environment shouldn't have been given the best possible chance of re-integration into society. Obviously you'd prefer that they be punished further. I fail to see the need to punish them, as opposed to correct them, at all. They seem to have been corrected. They seem to pose no greater risk to society at large than I do. I rely on professional judgements in that regard.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
it is an outrage that these two are being prtotected at the expense of taxpayers. Does anyone know where they are now? poor Little baby James.... do you know a child? a baby? so trusting so innocent so fragile. it makes me physically ill to think of crimes like this against babies -regardless of the age of the perps. doesnt it hurt when you stub your toe? how do you think it feels to be beaten? imagine if you will...a little confused baby being treated this way....where are those two evil men?and where are the idiots that decided they need protection?
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Welcome to ForumGarden, childadv. You might like to post an introduction and get to know a few of us.
Of course people know where they are now, they're on licence. That means they report regularly to the police.
Of course people know where they are now, they're on licence. That means they report regularly to the police.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
I'm pleased to say that since this discussion started a charity has stepped forward to help create a memorial for James Bulger. The Red Balloon Learner Centre hopes to build a new centre called the James Bulger House were bullied children can study in a safe environment.
Quote from the charity website: Denise Fergus, James' mother, says: "I have witnessed the work that Red Balloon does with bullied children and I am sure that there is a very great need for a learner centre refuge for victims of bullying on Merseyside. If James Bulger House can help save the life of just one child in that terrible situation then it will be a fitting tribute to my son."
Go to justgiving.com/jamesbulger for more information.
Really hope James Bulger House will happen.
Quote from the charity website: Denise Fergus, James' mother, says: "I have witnessed the work that Red Balloon does with bullied children and I am sure that there is a very great need for a learner centre refuge for victims of bullying on Merseyside. If James Bulger House can help save the life of just one child in that terrible situation then it will be a fitting tribute to my son."
Go to justgiving.com/jamesbulger for more information.
Really hope James Bulger House will happen.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Cass;11140 wrote: Bulger mother 'sees son's killer'
The mother of murdered child James Bulger has told a newspaper how she tracked down one of her son's killers. Denise Fergus said she was "paralysed with hatred" and could not bring herself to confront Robert Thompson.
According to the News of the World, she plans to trace Jon Venables who, with Thompson, was convicted of murdering two-year-old James in 1993.
The killers, who were aged 11 at the time, are in their early twenties and have been granted anonymity for life.
They were released from detention in 2001 having served under eight years and were given new identities and addresses.
According to the News of the World, Mrs Fergus feels that knowing where the men are gives her a sense of power.
She told the paper she had been sent a letter by an anonymous 'well-wisher' in which Thompson's daytime movements were outlined.
The 37-year-old mother of three then went to the area described in the letter on numerous occasions and waited until she found him in September.
She said she recognised him "in an instant. It was such a shock to see him in front of me.
"This was the person who murdered my little James. The person I last saw as a smiling 11-year-old in the dock all those years ago.
"I wanted to rush up to him and scream, 'Why did you kill my child!'. Yet I was turned to stone - paralysed with hatred.
"I was close enough to him, about 20 feet or so, to know without any doubt it was him.
Mrs Fergus said: "I was staring at him and he was none the wiser. Part of me wanted to jump out of the car and punch him but I was paralysed with the hatred I feel for him.
"In the end I just stared after him as he wandered down the street, turned a corner - and was gone."
Mrs Fergus said it was now her aim to find Venables and track him down in the same way.
"It gives me a sense of power knowing I can spot them," she said.
"I have no intention of doing anything - I just want to know what they look like and where they are."
Thompson and Venables, then aged 10, abducted James from a shopping centre in Merseyside and tortured him on a railway line.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4048957.stm
what this now needs is passing to the liverpool underworld so these 2 bastards can be found hanging!!!!!!!!
The mother of murdered child James Bulger has told a newspaper how she tracked down one of her son's killers. Denise Fergus said she was "paralysed with hatred" and could not bring herself to confront Robert Thompson.
According to the News of the World, she plans to trace Jon Venables who, with Thompson, was convicted of murdering two-year-old James in 1993.
The killers, who were aged 11 at the time, are in their early twenties and have been granted anonymity for life.
They were released from detention in 2001 having served under eight years and were given new identities and addresses.
According to the News of the World, Mrs Fergus feels that knowing where the men are gives her a sense of power.
She told the paper she had been sent a letter by an anonymous 'well-wisher' in which Thompson's daytime movements were outlined.
The 37-year-old mother of three then went to the area described in the letter on numerous occasions and waited until she found him in September.
She said she recognised him "in an instant. It was such a shock to see him in front of me.
"This was the person who murdered my little James. The person I last saw as a smiling 11-year-old in the dock all those years ago.
"I wanted to rush up to him and scream, 'Why did you kill my child!'. Yet I was turned to stone - paralysed with hatred.
"I was close enough to him, about 20 feet or so, to know without any doubt it was him.
Mrs Fergus said: "I was staring at him and he was none the wiser. Part of me wanted to jump out of the car and punch him but I was paralysed with the hatred I feel for him.
"In the end I just stared after him as he wandered down the street, turned a corner - and was gone."
Mrs Fergus said it was now her aim to find Venables and track him down in the same way.
"It gives me a sense of power knowing I can spot them," she said.
"I have no intention of doing anything - I just want to know what they look like and where they are."
Thompson and Venables, then aged 10, abducted James from a shopping centre in Merseyside and tortured him on a railway line.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4048957.stm
what this now needs is passing to the liverpool underworld so these 2 bastards can be found hanging!!!!!!!!
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
AA grumpy;838295 wrote: what this now needs is passing to the liverpool underworld so these 2 bastards can be found hanging!!!!!!!!
Do you get other people to do all your dirty work for you?
Do you get other people to do all your dirty work for you?
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Bryn Mawr;838302 wrote: Do you get other people to do all your dirty work for you?
i have no doubt that the nasty side of the liverpool underworld will contact denise
and these 2 scumbags will be found and then found murdered in a fitting justice due to them.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND !!!!!
i have no doubt that the nasty side of the liverpool underworld will contact denise
and these 2 scumbags will be found and then found murdered in a fitting justice due to them.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND !!!!!
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
fuzzy butt;826936 wrote: I disagree with what's being said here. Leave the young men alone!!!!!
I think the person who sent the information to James' mother is a vulture.
READ MY POST FUZZY BUTT YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD WAS KILLED THESE SCUMBAGS DID NOT PAY THE PRICE.
YOU WOULDNT DARE MAKE THIS STATEMENT IN LIVERPOOL YOU WOULD BE LYNCHED
BLEEDING HEARTS LIKE YOU WE CAN DO WITHOUT IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
BRING BACK THE ROPE FOR MURDER.
I think the person who sent the information to James' mother is a vulture.
READ MY POST FUZZY BUTT YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD WAS KILLED THESE SCUMBAGS DID NOT PAY THE PRICE.
YOU WOULDNT DARE MAKE THIS STATEMENT IN LIVERPOOL YOU WOULD BE LYNCHED
BLEEDING HEARTS LIKE YOU WE CAN DO WITHOUT IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
BRING BACK THE ROPE FOR MURDER.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
AA grumpy;838314 wrote: READ MY POST FUZZY BUTT YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD WAS KILLED THESE SCUMBAGS DID NOT PAY THE PRICE.
YOU WOULDNT DARE MAKE THIS STATEMENT IN LIVERPOOL YOU WOULD BE LYNCHED
BLEEDING HEARTS LIKE YOU WE CAN DO WITHOUT IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
BRING BACK THE ROPE FOR MURDER.
No - you are out of order inciting and advocating murder.
It is not for private individuals to kill and the people of this country have chosen not to allow the state to kill on their behalf.
If they are still a danger to society then they should not have been let out of jail. If they are not then murder is murder.
YOU WOULDNT DARE MAKE THIS STATEMENT IN LIVERPOOL YOU WOULD BE LYNCHED
BLEEDING HEARTS LIKE YOU WE CAN DO WITHOUT IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
BRING BACK THE ROPE FOR MURDER.
No - you are out of order inciting and advocating murder.
It is not for private individuals to kill and the people of this country have chosen not to allow the state to kill on their behalf.
If they are still a danger to society then they should not have been let out of jail. If they are not then murder is murder.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Bryn Mawr;838398 wrote: No - you are out of order inciting and advocating murder.
It is not for private individuals to kill and the people of this country have chosen not to allow the state to kill on their behalf.
If they are still a danger to society then they should not have been let out of jail. If they are not then murder is murder.
my point is let the underworld do what the justice system wont ,
because its tied up with too many bleeding hearts and do gooders that bleat for the criminal and not for the victim.
they murder and torture a child and get a mere 8 years this is because michael howard did not want venables and thompson in a proper jail where their lives where at risk.
instead social services get them for 8 years in a snug childrens home granted in a secure unit they then get police protection and a new identity hows this justice,
i hope the underworld do get them and hang them it would be no less than these bastards deserve.
you and fuzzy butt should crawl back under your respective stones with the rest of the bleeding hearts brigade.
rest in peace jamie justice will be done x
It is not for private individuals to kill and the people of this country have chosen not to allow the state to kill on their behalf.
If they are still a danger to society then they should not have been let out of jail. If they are not then murder is murder.
my point is let the underworld do what the justice system wont ,
because its tied up with too many bleeding hearts and do gooders that bleat for the criminal and not for the victim.
they murder and torture a child and get a mere 8 years this is because michael howard did not want venables and thompson in a proper jail where their lives where at risk.
instead social services get them for 8 years in a snug childrens home granted in a secure unit they then get police protection and a new identity hows this justice,
i hope the underworld do get them and hang them it would be no less than these bastards deserve.
you and fuzzy butt should crawl back under your respective stones with the rest of the bleeding hearts brigade.
rest in peace jamie justice will be done x
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
You're deliberately provoking disturbances, that's what I read into your post here.
If you actually mean it then it's hard to imagine anyone getting the end of the stick so wrong. The victims in this entire affair are the two lads and always have been. The responsibility for James Bulger's regrettable death rests, in truth, entirely on his mother's shoulders for not keeping him safe in the first place - the lads didn't drag him screaming from her arms, after all, they found him entirely unaccompanied in a shopping centre. Wouldn't you call risking a child that young in those circumstances culpable neglect?
The way they are now is a consequence of their subsequent remedial upbringing - since they were removed from the appalling family influences they'd been corrupted by - and that subsequent upbringing has been the responsibility of the State. The two of them have been mere puppets under both regimes. I hope the State's intervention has been enough to mend them and that's what the release license said had happened - that they're less risk to the public today than the average person of their age is.
If you actually mean it then it's hard to imagine anyone getting the end of the stick so wrong. The victims in this entire affair are the two lads and always have been. The responsibility for James Bulger's regrettable death rests, in truth, entirely on his mother's shoulders for not keeping him safe in the first place - the lads didn't drag him screaming from her arms, after all, they found him entirely unaccompanied in a shopping centre. Wouldn't you call risking a child that young in those circumstances culpable neglect?
The way they are now is a consequence of their subsequent remedial upbringing - since they were removed from the appalling family influences they'd been corrupted by - and that subsequent upbringing has been the responsibility of the State. The two of them have been mere puppets under both regimes. I hope the State's intervention has been enough to mend them and that's what the release license said had happened - that they're less risk to the public today than the average person of their age is.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
AA grumpy;838432 wrote:
you and fuzzy butt should crawl back under your respective stones with the rest of the bleeding hearts brigade.
rest in peace jamie justice will be done x
There is a limit on FG to both how far you can go to incite violence against living people and how abusive you can be towards other members of this board.
It is rare that we see people on FG actually calling upon underground movements to murder another person. It has happened before though you won't find the other member who did it posting on the board anymore.
Don't expect to be called a hero.
you and fuzzy butt should crawl back under your respective stones with the rest of the bleeding hearts brigade.
rest in peace jamie justice will be done x
There is a limit on FG to both how far you can go to incite violence against living people and how abusive you can be towards other members of this board.
It is rare that we see people on FG actually calling upon underground movements to murder another person. It has happened before though you won't find the other member who did it posting on the board anymore.
Don't expect to be called a hero.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
AA grumpy;838432 wrote: my point is let the underworld do what the justice system wont ,
because its tied up with too many bleeding hearts and do gooders that bleat for the criminal and not for the victim.
they murder and torture a child and get a mere 8 years this is because michael howard did not want venables and thompson in a proper jail where their lives where at risk.
instead social services get them for 8 years in a snug childrens home granted in a secure unit they then get police protection and a new identity hows this justice,
i hope the underworld do get them and hang them it would be no less than these bastards deserve.
you and fuzzy butt should crawl back under your respective stones with the rest of the bleeding hearts brigade.
rest in peace jamie justice will be done x
You really do not know what you're talking about, do you? They did not go to an adult prison because they were ten year old children - not because the then Home Secretary did not want them beaten up. They were still only fourteen when he left office so he would never have had the opportunity to transfer them.
You talk of justice and in the next breath call for people to be murdered. In this country we depend on the rule of law to maintain civilisation - taking out contracts with underworld killers is, and always will be, illegal. That way lie the Mafiosi and the destruction of justice, not its maintenance.
If anyone should crawl back under a stone it is you. You've been banned at least once for your drivel but you'll never learn - it will be interesting to see how long you last this time.
because its tied up with too many bleeding hearts and do gooders that bleat for the criminal and not for the victim.
they murder and torture a child and get a mere 8 years this is because michael howard did not want venables and thompson in a proper jail where their lives where at risk.
instead social services get them for 8 years in a snug childrens home granted in a secure unit they then get police protection and a new identity hows this justice,
i hope the underworld do get them and hang them it would be no less than these bastards deserve.
you and fuzzy butt should crawl back under your respective stones with the rest of the bleeding hearts brigade.
rest in peace jamie justice will be done x
You really do not know what you're talking about, do you? They did not go to an adult prison because they were ten year old children - not because the then Home Secretary did not want them beaten up. They were still only fourteen when he left office so he would never have had the opportunity to transfer them.
You talk of justice and in the next breath call for people to be murdered. In this country we depend on the rule of law to maintain civilisation - taking out contracts with underworld killers is, and always will be, illegal. That way lie the Mafiosi and the destruction of justice, not its maintenance.
If anyone should crawl back under a stone it is you. You've been banned at least once for your drivel but you'll never learn - it will be interesting to see how long you last this time.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
spot;838674 wrote: You're deliberately provoking disturbances, that's what I read into your post here.
If you actually mean it then it's hard to imagine anyone getting the end of the stick so wrong. The victims in this entire affair are the two lads and always have been. The responsibility for James Bulger's regrettable death rests, in truth, entirely on his mother's shoulders for not keeping him safe in the first place - the lads didn't drag him screaming from her arms, after all, they found him entirely unaccompanied in a shopping centre. Wouldn't you call risking a child that young in those circumstances culpable neglect?
The way they are now is a consequence of their subsequent remedial upbringing - since they were removed from the appalling family influences they'd been corrupted by - and that subsequent upbringing has been the responsibility of the State. The two of them have been mere puppets under both regimes. I hope the State's intervention has been enough to mend them and that's what the release license said had happened - that they're less risk to the public today than the average person of their age is.
i have to be carefull how i answer this as i may gain another infraction point.
i personally dont see them as victims but 2 murdering scum who tortured and killed a 3 year old child and spent a mere 8 years in the care of social services because spineless howard would not place them in a mainstream young offenders or later prison because he was frightend of them being killed so his reason being political.
the report of jamie crying for his mummy while being stoned to death and the vision of it will haunt me whenever it is mentioned this is why i never speak of jamie bulger it upsets me to much and this is why i get so angry at bleeding hearts like you and fuzzy butt.
how a decision rests with one home secretary is beyond belief.
they should have served at least 15 years each minimum for their crime .
yet because of the intervention of the do gooders and bleeding hearts they serve just 8 years in a childrens home .
what if they had murdered an adult ?.
feelings where running high in liverpool at the time and people felt justice had not been done.
my personal opinion is i hope the underworld or vigilanties get them and hang them high this would be restoritive justice.
AAG
If you actually mean it then it's hard to imagine anyone getting the end of the stick so wrong. The victims in this entire affair are the two lads and always have been. The responsibility for James Bulger's regrettable death rests, in truth, entirely on his mother's shoulders for not keeping him safe in the first place - the lads didn't drag him screaming from her arms, after all, they found him entirely unaccompanied in a shopping centre. Wouldn't you call risking a child that young in those circumstances culpable neglect?
The way they are now is a consequence of their subsequent remedial upbringing - since they were removed from the appalling family influences they'd been corrupted by - and that subsequent upbringing has been the responsibility of the State. The two of them have been mere puppets under both regimes. I hope the State's intervention has been enough to mend them and that's what the release license said had happened - that they're less risk to the public today than the average person of their age is.
i have to be carefull how i answer this as i may gain another infraction point.
i personally dont see them as victims but 2 murdering scum who tortured and killed a 3 year old child and spent a mere 8 years in the care of social services because spineless howard would not place them in a mainstream young offenders or later prison because he was frightend of them being killed so his reason being political.
the report of jamie crying for his mummy while being stoned to death and the vision of it will haunt me whenever it is mentioned this is why i never speak of jamie bulger it upsets me to much and this is why i get so angry at bleeding hearts like you and fuzzy butt.
how a decision rests with one home secretary is beyond belief.
they should have served at least 15 years each minimum for their crime .
yet because of the intervention of the do gooders and bleeding hearts they serve just 8 years in a childrens home .
what if they had murdered an adult ?.
feelings where running high in liverpool at the time and people felt justice had not been done.
my personal opinion is i hope the underworld or vigilanties get them and hang them high this would be restoritive justice.
AAG
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
They were ten years old. They were children damaged by the people who were bringing them up. Those adults are the ones you should be annoyed at - as I am - and they (as far as I know) escaped any form of censure at all.
As for the gutter press keeping "James Bulger's Mother" on a permanent fish hook and able to reel her in for another front-page purge whenever they feel inclined, there are no words to express my abhorrence and the same goes for my opinion of that self-publicist emo Esther Rantzen.
As for the gutter press keeping "James Bulger's Mother" on a permanent fish hook and able to reel her in for another front-page purge whenever they feel inclined, there are no words to express my abhorrence and the same goes for my opinion of that self-publicist emo Esther Rantzen.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
You really are quite an egotistic, arrogant piece of work, Spot. Reading your postings you seem to think you're so much more intelligent than everyone else on this forum.
You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy. Do you really think James Bulger's mother has spent a day not thinking about her little boy? It's sad that appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened leaves her open to criticism from people like you.
Anyway, enough of your senseless banter, the real point of the matter is a toddler was tortured and murdered and some people who actually care are helping to donate to the Red Balloon charity who propose to build a permanent memorial in his name. And you criticise people for wanting to do this? Something very wrong with you, Spot!
You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy. Do you really think James Bulger's mother has spent a day not thinking about her little boy? It's sad that appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened leaves her open to criticism from people like you.
Anyway, enough of your senseless banter, the real point of the matter is a toddler was tortured and murdered and some people who actually care are helping to donate to the Red Balloon charity who propose to build a permanent memorial in his name. And you criticise people for wanting to do this? Something very wrong with you, Spot!
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
I think the problem is vigilante behaviour.
spot is not the only person on this thread who believes that the law should remain in the hands of the lawmakers and legal enforcers.
spot is not the only person on this thread who believes that the law should remain in the hands of the lawmakers and legal enforcers.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
koan;840563 wrote: I think the problem is vigilante behaviour.
spot is not the only person on this thread who believes that the law should remain in the hands of the lawmakers and legal enforcers.
but justice here in the uk is a joke its geared more towards the criminal not the victim.
what if this had happened in canada ?
spot is not the only person on this thread who believes that the law should remain in the hands of the lawmakers and legal enforcers.
but justice here in the uk is a joke its geared more towards the criminal not the victim.
what if this had happened in canada ?
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
AA grumpy;840574 wrote: but justice here in the uk is a joke its geared more towards the criminal not the victim.
what if this had happened in canada ?
In Canada we have Karla Homolka, who helped kill young girls including the death of her own sister. She was released and given help to create a new identity. I pretty much leave these decisions to the justice department.
what if this had happened in canada ?
In Canada we have Karla Homolka, who helped kill young girls including the death of her own sister. She was released and given help to create a new identity. I pretty much leave these decisions to the justice department.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
koan;840605 wrote: In Canada we have Karla Homolka, who helped kill young girls including the death of her own sister. She was released and given help to create a new identity. I pretty much leave these decisions to the justice department.
its not right though is it ?
its not right though is it ?
-
pantsonfire321@aol.com
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
mhyh007;840537 wrote: You really are quite an egotistic, arrogant piece of work, Spot. Reading your postings you seem to think you're so much more intelligent than everyone else on this forum.
You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy. Do you really think James Bulger's mother has spent a day not thinking about her little boy? It's sad that appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened leaves her open to criticism from people like you.
Anyway, enough of your senseless banter, the real point of the matter is a toddler was tortured and murdered and some people who actually care are helping to donate to the Red Balloon charity who propose to build a permanent memorial in his name. And you criticise people for wanting to do this? Something very wrong with you, Spot!
Rip James :-6
You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy. Do you really think James Bulger's mother has spent a day not thinking about her little boy? It's sad that appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened leaves her open to criticism from people like you.
Anyway, enough of your senseless banter, the real point of the matter is a toddler was tortured and murdered and some people who actually care are helping to donate to the Red Balloon charity who propose to build a permanent memorial in his name. And you criticise people for wanting to do this? Something very wrong with you, Spot!
Rip James :-6
Can go from 0 - to bitch in 3.0 seconds .
Smile people :yh_bigsmi
yep, this bitch bites back .
Smile people :yh_bigsmi
yep, this bitch bites back .
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
AA grumpy;840615 wrote: its not right though is it ?
:-5
Yes. Yes, it is more right than the average idiot thinking his own moral compass is perfected enough to make decisions for the rest of us without any training, education in the matter or public election.
:-5
Yes. Yes, it is more right than the average idiot thinking his own moral compass is perfected enough to make decisions for the rest of us without any training, education in the matter or public election.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
mhyh007;840537 wrote: You really are quite an egotistic, arrogant piece of work, Spot. Reading your postings you seem to think you're so much more intelligent than everyone else on this forum.
You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy. Do you really think James Bulger's mother has spent a day not thinking about her little boy? It's sad that appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened leaves her open to criticism from people like you.
Anyway, enough of your senseless banter, the real point of the matter is a toddler was tortured and murdered and some people who actually care are helping to donate to the Red Balloon charity who propose to build a permanent memorial in his name. And you criticise people for wanting to do this? Something very wrong with you, Spot!
Where did I criticize anyone for donating toward the Red Balloon charity, myh? I don't recall doing it, I don't see where I did it when I look back through the thread and yet you give it as a reason that there's something very wrong with me. I think you made it up. People do that in threads more often than you'd expect, given how easy it is to read back and check.
I think I'm so much more intelligent than everyone else on this forum? No, I know different, I've met people who post here whom I regard as brighter and whose advice I quite often seek. You really are digging in shallow places to try to needle me, you'll have to do a lot better than that. I don't think you'll take the general audience along with you if you make obviously mistaken claims. More intelligent than most, yes, I'll grant you that if you want to compromise. That's neither egotistical or arrogant, that's measured fact. Intelligence isn't a measure I place much store by when it comes to distributing wealth or applauding behaviour but it comes in handy.
"You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy". Well, we're not talking about setting up a charity to memorialize him, are we - I haven't criticized that. You're talking, I think, about keeping those two imprisoned in an adult jail where all the rehabilitation work of the previous years would have been destroyed. It would have been utterly shameful to wreck tho apparently mended lives on the altar of retribution, I'm delighted (though not surprised) that the authorities had sense enough not to submit to the pressures of the gutter press. If "doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy" involves vigilantes causing them harm then I'd regard both encouraging it and doing it as equivalent crimes and so, I think, does English law.
The "appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened" isn't something I've seen - presumably it's advocacy for this charity she's been talked into associating herself with. I was discussing the repeated exposure of her festering blind hatred which is presumably held in place by an underlying awareness of her own culpability. The fact that she feels that way, if she does, is her own problem. The fact that it's wheeled out like an annual medieval mystery play by the gutter press is a disgusting display of amoral cynical manipulative profit-making on the part of the editors who generate the story out of nothing.
I believe you joined the site just to participate in this thread. Would you like to discuss why? I'd be interested to know your connection to the subject.
You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy. Do you really think James Bulger's mother has spent a day not thinking about her little boy? It's sad that appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened leaves her open to criticism from people like you.
Anyway, enough of your senseless banter, the real point of the matter is a toddler was tortured and murdered and some people who actually care are helping to donate to the Red Balloon charity who propose to build a permanent memorial in his name. And you criticise people for wanting to do this? Something very wrong with you, Spot!
Where did I criticize anyone for donating toward the Red Balloon charity, myh? I don't recall doing it, I don't see where I did it when I look back through the thread and yet you give it as a reason that there's something very wrong with me. I think you made it up. People do that in threads more often than you'd expect, given how easy it is to read back and check.
I think I'm so much more intelligent than everyone else on this forum? No, I know different, I've met people who post here whom I regard as brighter and whose advice I quite often seek. You really are digging in shallow places to try to needle me, you'll have to do a lot better than that. I don't think you'll take the general audience along with you if you make obviously mistaken claims. More intelligent than most, yes, I'll grant you that if you want to compromise. That's neither egotistical or arrogant, that's measured fact. Intelligence isn't a measure I place much store by when it comes to distributing wealth or applauding behaviour but it comes in handy.
"You criticise people for doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy". Well, we're not talking about setting up a charity to memorialize him, are we - I haven't criticized that. You're talking, I think, about keeping those two imprisoned in an adult jail where all the rehabilitation work of the previous years would have been destroyed. It would have been utterly shameful to wreck tho apparently mended lives on the altar of retribution, I'm delighted (though not surprised) that the authorities had sense enough not to submit to the pressures of the gutter press. If "doing something about the murder of little 2-year-old boy" involves vigilantes causing them harm then I'd regard both encouraging it and doing it as equivalent crimes and so, I think, does English law.
The "appearing in a newspaper trying to make something good out of what happened" isn't something I've seen - presumably it's advocacy for this charity she's been talked into associating herself with. I was discussing the repeated exposure of her festering blind hatred which is presumably held in place by an underlying awareness of her own culpability. The fact that she feels that way, if she does, is her own problem. The fact that it's wheeled out like an annual medieval mystery play by the gutter press is a disgusting display of amoral cynical manipulative profit-making on the part of the editors who generate the story out of nothing.
I believe you joined the site just to participate in this thread. Would you like to discuss why? I'd be interested to know your connection to the subject.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
TheBlackWhisper
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:55 pm
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
Hey Spot,
I too have recently joined this site after finally stumbling across the atrocities of what happened to James Bulger and reading the horrid details. (Never realised quite how brutal his last few hours had been. Obviously the news never mentioned this and you had to dig deeper to find out the facts for yourself.)
I've got a question for you. If you've already been asked this previously then my apologies, but here it is anyway.
Do you have a brother or sister? A young niece or nephew perhaps? If not imagine the love you feel for someone close to you and then you're close to feeling the parental love for a child. Now, would you still want to let the two killers - no matter how old they were - back into society if they had done all the things mentioned in the reports to your own flesh and blood? And I ask you to think back to those reports. Really visualize what happened that afternoon and how much pain and sheer terror was inflicted. I'll be honest, I've seen a lot of horror films in my time and I have never seen or heard of anything that compares to what those two killers did to James.
Do you actually know what happened? Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to belittle you here, but do you know the full extent of his injuries? It's one thing to beat somebody to death (maybe the reasons and justifications, such as a bad upbringing, you gave in earlier posts qualifies for this type of crime) but - and I'm going to have to mention, for me, one of the more horrific details of his death - to rip a young boy's foreskin off with their finger nails? How can you think that these actions are those of children from broken homes? Those are the actions of two genuinly twisted individuals who found each other and acted out their perverse fantasies. I'm with Red Glitter in their argument.
There can be no reabilitation for monsters. You cannot change the minds of men. A person's thoughts and beliefs can change over time but only if they want them to yet the very nature of the acts the two killers perfomed all those years ago prove they are way past redemption.
What would you do with them now? Try to teach them right from wrong? For example, despite their horrendous impulses, a phedophile is born that way, just as normal people or born with an attraction to men and women. You can't change what you are. You can only hide it. And hiding it only builds it up until it finally explodes...
I too have recently joined this site after finally stumbling across the atrocities of what happened to James Bulger and reading the horrid details. (Never realised quite how brutal his last few hours had been. Obviously the news never mentioned this and you had to dig deeper to find out the facts for yourself.)
I've got a question for you. If you've already been asked this previously then my apologies, but here it is anyway.
Do you have a brother or sister? A young niece or nephew perhaps? If not imagine the love you feel for someone close to you and then you're close to feeling the parental love for a child. Now, would you still want to let the two killers - no matter how old they were - back into society if they had done all the things mentioned in the reports to your own flesh and blood? And I ask you to think back to those reports. Really visualize what happened that afternoon and how much pain and sheer terror was inflicted. I'll be honest, I've seen a lot of horror films in my time and I have never seen or heard of anything that compares to what those two killers did to James.
Do you actually know what happened? Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to belittle you here, but do you know the full extent of his injuries? It's one thing to beat somebody to death (maybe the reasons and justifications, such as a bad upbringing, you gave in earlier posts qualifies for this type of crime) but - and I'm going to have to mention, for me, one of the more horrific details of his death - to rip a young boy's foreskin off with their finger nails? How can you think that these actions are those of children from broken homes? Those are the actions of two genuinly twisted individuals who found each other and acted out their perverse fantasies. I'm with Red Glitter in their argument.
There can be no reabilitation for monsters. You cannot change the minds of men. A person's thoughts and beliefs can change over time but only if they want them to yet the very nature of the acts the two killers perfomed all those years ago prove they are way past redemption.
What would you do with them now? Try to teach them right from wrong? For example, despite their horrendous impulses, a phedophile is born that way, just as normal people or born with an attraction to men and women. You can't change what you are. You can only hide it. And hiding it only builds it up until it finally explodes...
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
You registered just to argue this point? Good lord.
That was two questions. Have I a sibling, yes. Do I know what happened, yes.
There can be no reabilitation for monsters, you write. I offer you the instance of Mary Bell, since she's older, and the instance of these two the thread's about since they do seem to have come out of the system in a salvaged state. Entire philosophies have concluded that "You cannot change the minds of men" is mistaken, I'd regard it as mistaken, I'd say the evidence is considerable that the minds of men can be changed but it's an irrelevant point. They were ten years old. They were damaged by their upbringing. It's been corrected. They're out in the community being, one presumes, at least as productive as the average citizen. It's very wonderful that it's so, it's inspirational. Of course I'd want the same to happen if I were related to a victim, which is the implied question you didn't get round to asking.
You say "you can't change what you are, you can only hide it". I'd ask you for proof of that, since there's a ton of evidence to the contrary. Test your words against reality. Go and talk to a priest or two. Discover what people are, instead of what you'd like them to be.
There are hundreds of child soldiers in West and Central Africa, for example, who have behaved far worse than the two under discussion. The child soldiers wouldn't have done what they did except for their upbringing. Their circumstances have changed. Are you telling me that none of them can become productive healed citizens? Where's the difference between all of them and the two you're dismissing as monsters?
That was two questions. Have I a sibling, yes. Do I know what happened, yes.
There can be no reabilitation for monsters, you write. I offer you the instance of Mary Bell, since she's older, and the instance of these two the thread's about since they do seem to have come out of the system in a salvaged state. Entire philosophies have concluded that "You cannot change the minds of men" is mistaken, I'd regard it as mistaken, I'd say the evidence is considerable that the minds of men can be changed but it's an irrelevant point. They were ten years old. They were damaged by their upbringing. It's been corrected. They're out in the community being, one presumes, at least as productive as the average citizen. It's very wonderful that it's so, it's inspirational. Of course I'd want the same to happen if I were related to a victim, which is the implied question you didn't get round to asking.
You say "you can't change what you are, you can only hide it". I'd ask you for proof of that, since there's a ton of evidence to the contrary. Test your words against reality. Go and talk to a priest or two. Discover what people are, instead of what you'd like them to be.
There are hundreds of child soldiers in West and Central Africa, for example, who have behaved far worse than the two under discussion. The child soldiers wouldn't have done what they did except for their upbringing. Their circumstances have changed. Are you telling me that none of them can become productive healed citizens? Where's the difference between all of them and the two you're dismissing as monsters?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
spot;728250 wrote: Lord Woolf, who was instrumental in their release, commented on their likelihood of re-offending. There's a summary in the Guardian:
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson have been detained in separate secure units. They are different personalities with different backgrounds. However, the assessment of the respective psychiatrists and the staff of the units at which they are detained are very similar when they describe the way these two young men have responded to their punishment. Significantly, the assessments generally agree that both of these young men are genuinely extremely remorseful about the crime which they committed, and the effect which it must have had on James's family. In addition, neither has shown any aggression or propensity for violence during his detention. They have worked hard in pursuing their education and, given their circumstances, have considerable achievements to their credit. All those who have reported on them regard the risk of their reoffending as being low.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bulger/articl ... 43,00.html
So it all comes down to an Old Testament demand for vengeance, does it?
Or does it ALL come down to
"you can not change a leapards SPOTS".
...........spot?
Try these links of THOUSANDS I could post of released killers Killing or inflicting other GREAT harms on society
Released to kill again?
Freed in ’82 case of four Chicago slayings, man is charged in another killing
Man who killed two convicted on child porn charges
Thy neighbor's rap sheet: how do you know whether a killer lives next door?
On New Year's Eve 1975, after an evening of taking LSD and watching cop shows on television, 15-year-old Raul Meza showed up at a convenience store near his house in Austin, Texas, armed with a deer rifle. Meza emptied the cash register, then marched the clerk, a 20-year-old college student named Derly Ramirez, into the walk-in freezer. Meza shot him in the back and left him for dead.
Ramirez recovered to testify against the man who wounded him. Meza received a 20-year sentence, and served five years before getting out on parole.
On January 3, 1982, months after his release, 21-year-old Raul Meza abducted Kendra Page, a third-grader, as she rode her bicycle near her home in southeast Austin. Meza tortured, raped, and strangled the girl, then left her body behind a dumpster. Three days later, he surrendered to the police. Meza received 30 years for the killing.
While behind bars, Meza racked up demerits for various infractions, and four years were added to his sentence after guards found a knife in his cell. Meza came up for parole seven times, and each time it was denied.
By 1993, however, prison authorities could keep Meza no longer. Under Texas law, he had accumulated enough credit for good behavior to qualify automatically for release. The state freed him under mandatory supervision, a conditional release not unlike parole that can be granted without the consent of the parole board.
No matter how notorious, most felons leave prison with little fanfare. They re-enter society quietly and soon become anonymous. Some begin new and honest lives. Many others, freed from supervision and accountable to no one, commit new crimes. Raul Meza might have regained his freedom in the same way. But he never...
I Say the little BASTARDS should have ROTTed in jail
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson have been detained in separate secure units. They are different personalities with different backgrounds. However, the assessment of the respective psychiatrists and the staff of the units at which they are detained are very similar when they describe the way these two young men have responded to their punishment. Significantly, the assessments generally agree that both of these young men are genuinely extremely remorseful about the crime which they committed, and the effect which it must have had on James's family. In addition, neither has shown any aggression or propensity for violence during his detention. They have worked hard in pursuing their education and, given their circumstances, have considerable achievements to their credit. All those who have reported on them regard the risk of their reoffending as being low.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bulger/articl ... 43,00.html
So it all comes down to an Old Testament demand for vengeance, does it?
Or does it ALL come down to
"you can not change a leapards SPOTS".
...........spot?
Try these links of THOUSANDS I could post of released killers Killing or inflicting other GREAT harms on society
Released to kill again?
Freed in ’82 case of four Chicago slayings, man is charged in another killing
Man who killed two convicted on child porn charges
Thy neighbor's rap sheet: how do you know whether a killer lives next door?
On New Year's Eve 1975, after an evening of taking LSD and watching cop shows on television, 15-year-old Raul Meza showed up at a convenience store near his house in Austin, Texas, armed with a deer rifle. Meza emptied the cash register, then marched the clerk, a 20-year-old college student named Derly Ramirez, into the walk-in freezer. Meza shot him in the back and left him for dead.
Ramirez recovered to testify against the man who wounded him. Meza received a 20-year sentence, and served five years before getting out on parole.
On January 3, 1982, months after his release, 21-year-old Raul Meza abducted Kendra Page, a third-grader, as she rode her bicycle near her home in southeast Austin. Meza tortured, raped, and strangled the girl, then left her body behind a dumpster. Three days later, he surrendered to the police. Meza received 30 years for the killing.
While behind bars, Meza racked up demerits for various infractions, and four years were added to his sentence after guards found a knife in his cell. Meza came up for parole seven times, and each time it was denied.
By 1993, however, prison authorities could keep Meza no longer. Under Texas law, he had accumulated enough credit for good behavior to qualify automatically for release. The state freed him under mandatory supervision, a conditional release not unlike parole that can be granted without the consent of the parole board.
No matter how notorious, most felons leave prison with little fanfare. They re-enter society quietly and soon become anonymous. Some begin new and honest lives. Many others, freed from supervision and accountable to no one, commit new crimes. Raul Meza might have regained his freedom in the same way. But he never...
I Say the little BASTARDS should have ROTTed in jail
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
"THOUSANDS I could post of released killers Killing or inflicting other GREAT harms on society"?
Drivel. It never happened. It's not true. You made it up. It's a lie intended to change people's minds which has no factual basis.
eta:
ah. I worked out the wording. You mean there's thousands of links, not that there's thousands of released killers killing or inflicting.
The number of links isn't really persuasive.
The test for rehabilitation is whether they're less likely than the average person in society of re-offending, not whether they're incapable of re-offending. I don't think parole boards give enough weight to rehabilitation, myself. I think it ought to weigh more in their decision. I think parole boards release murderers too easily and on the wrong grounds, at least in England - I'm not here making a comment about the US experience of parole, I know too little about it.
Drivel. It never happened. It's not true. You made it up. It's a lie intended to change people's minds which has no factual basis.
eta:
ah. I worked out the wording. You mean there's thousands of links, not that there's thousands of released killers killing or inflicting.
The number of links isn't really persuasive.
The test for rehabilitation is whether they're less likely than the average person in society of re-offending, not whether they're incapable of re-offending. I don't think parole boards give enough weight to rehabilitation, myself. I think it ought to weigh more in their decision. I think parole boards release murderers too easily and on the wrong grounds, at least in England - I'm not here making a comment about the US experience of parole, I know too little about it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
spot;898940 wrote: "THOUSANDS I could post of released killers Killing or inflicting other GREAT harms on society"?
Drivel. It never happened. It's not true. You made it up. It's a lie intended to change people's minds which has no factual basis.
eta:
ah. I worked out the wording. You mean there's thousands of links, not that there's thousands of released killers killing or inflicting.
The number of links isn't really persuasive.
The test for rehabilitation is whether they're less likely than the average person in society of re-offending, not whether they're incapable of re-offending. I don't think parole boards give enough weight to rehabilitation, myself. I think it ought to weigh more in their decision. I think parole boards release murderers too easily and on the wrong grounds, at least in England - I'm not here making a comment about the US experience of parole, I know too little about it.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!
Before I go into my whole song and dance spot..............
WHY in the world are you REALLY defending these punks????
seriously.......WHY?
OK the song and dance
I say Drivel...............NOT
Give me a about 33 and a half mins. and I will post more than you care to read accounts of released-rehabilitated punks who inflict their wrath on society
So spot,
you KNOW beyond a shadow of doubt that these 2 punks will NEVER kill again............Thank GOD 4 sy-kicks like u
And you base it all from this, a LIBERAL minded Lord that is against tough sentences (or any sentence 4 that matter):
(See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/uk/ ... 669719.stm )
Originally Posted by spot
Lord Woolf, who was instrumental in their release, commented on their likelihood of re-offending. There's a summary in the Guardian:
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson have been detained in separate secure units. They are different personalities with different backgrounds. However, the assessment of the respective psychiatrists and the staff of the units at which they are detained are very similar when they describe the way these two young men have responded to their punishment. Significantly, the assessments generally agree that both of these young men are genuinely extremely remorseful about the crime which they committed, and the effect which it must have had on James's family. In addition, neither has shown any aggression or propensity for violence during his detention. They have worked hard in pursuing their education and, given their circumstances, have considerable achievements to their credit. All those who have reported on them regard the risk of their reoffending as being low.
OK u go boy...........
You say earlier...........(and I paraphrase)
Any wonder they killed because of the way they were raised then site Mr Lord Wolf.....oops Woolf and his drivel as to why they are NOW upstanding boys and should be released..
So your earlier statement about how they were raised and why they killed is not relevant now because the are rehabilitated??
Drivel. It never happened. It's not true. You made it up. It's a lie intended to change people's minds which has no factual basis.
eta:
ah. I worked out the wording. You mean there's thousands of links, not that there's thousands of released killers killing or inflicting.
The number of links isn't really persuasive.
The test for rehabilitation is whether they're less likely than the average person in society of re-offending, not whether they're incapable of re-offending. I don't think parole boards give enough weight to rehabilitation, myself. I think it ought to weigh more in their decision. I think parole boards release murderers too easily and on the wrong grounds, at least in England - I'm not here making a comment about the US experience of parole, I know too little about it.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!
Before I go into my whole song and dance spot..............
WHY in the world are you REALLY defending these punks????
seriously.......WHY?
OK the song and dance
I say Drivel...............NOT
Give me a about 33 and a half mins. and I will post more than you care to read accounts of released-rehabilitated punks who inflict their wrath on society
So spot,
you KNOW beyond a shadow of doubt that these 2 punks will NEVER kill again............Thank GOD 4 sy-kicks like u
And you base it all from this, a LIBERAL minded Lord that is against tough sentences (or any sentence 4 that matter):
(See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/uk/ ... 669719.stm )
Originally Posted by spot
Lord Woolf, who was instrumental in their release, commented on their likelihood of re-offending. There's a summary in the Guardian:
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson have been detained in separate secure units. They are different personalities with different backgrounds. However, the assessment of the respective psychiatrists and the staff of the units at which they are detained are very similar when they describe the way these two young men have responded to their punishment. Significantly, the assessments generally agree that both of these young men are genuinely extremely remorseful about the crime which they committed, and the effect which it must have had on James's family. In addition, neither has shown any aggression or propensity for violence during his detention. They have worked hard in pursuing their education and, given their circumstances, have considerable achievements to their credit. All those who have reported on them regard the risk of their reoffending as being low.
OK u go boy...........
You say earlier...........(and I paraphrase)
Any wonder they killed because of the way they were raised then site Mr Lord Wolf.....oops Woolf and his drivel as to why they are NOW upstanding boys and should be released..
So your earlier statement about how they were raised and why they killed is not relevant now because the are rehabilitated??
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
UK - James Bulger's Mother Tracks down Killer
BTS;898954 wrote: you KNOW beyond a shadow of doubt that these 2 punks will NEVER kill again............Thank GOD 4 sy-kicks like uThe test for rehabilitation is whether they're less likely than the average person in society of re-offending, not whether they're incapable of re-offending. I don't think parole boards give enough weight to rehabilitation, myself. I think it ought to weigh more in their decision. I think parole boards release murderers too easily and on the wrong grounds, at least in England - I'm not here making a comment about the US experience of parole, I know too little about it.
BTS;898954 wrote: So your earlier statement about how they were raised and why they killed is not relevant now because the are rehabilitated??My "earlier statement about how they were raised and why they killed" relates to my sympathy for them, not to whether they should have been detained longer. It has little to do with rehabilitation.
BTS;898954 wrote: So your earlier statement about how they were raised and why they killed is not relevant now because the are rehabilitated??My "earlier statement about how they were raised and why they killed" relates to my sympathy for them, not to whether they should have been detained longer. It has little to do with rehabilitation.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.