another shooting spree

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:26 pm

This time in a shopping mall in nebraska.

Are we becoming desensitised to these events, they seem to hwppen so often now?

Why are they happening so often?

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:43 pm

I just saw this in my boss's office, he keeps the TV on one of the news channells at all times since 9/11 and I always find myself stopping and watching the news for a few minutes when I walk into his office...It is so sad that it does seem that our country is de-sensitized, but I really don't think we are....maybe that is just my wishful thinking:-1

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:47 pm

The only one, I'm sorry to say, which had any real impact on me - although don't get me wrong, they were all tragic - recently, was the finland shooting.

Because it was so unusual, I kind of went "Finland?".

We have the live feed here, and it says, someone was shot, and you know it's going to be in the states.(or gang shootings in London/Manchester)

Maybe because everyone in the states has a gun?

Anyway I do feel very sorry for all the innocent people who were caught up in this event.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:48 pm

I think it's overstimulation that sets some peoples' minds on Wack Mode.

Seriously, we drive too fast, eat too fast, shop too fast, don't sleep enough, don't get enough fresh air and downtime, our retinas are burned out from tv and computers, have to push 2 for English and can't get hold of a real human being, it's all too much stress and people snap.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:50 pm

It's very true what you say red, the stresses of modern living.

On the one hand we think it's great we have all this 24 hour living and technology, on the other hand, the human body needs rest sometimes.

I moved from a busy city to a small sleepy place, and I feel much better for it.

Ziggy · Post by **Ziggy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:31 am

lemon_and_mint;733944 wrote: This time in a shopping mall in nebraska.

Are we becoming desensitised to these events, they seem to happen so often now?

Not me... And I'm sure there are many more like us.

lemon_and_mint;733944 wrote:

Why are they happening so often?

That's a very good question, my opinion is:

In part, education.
- In part, parenting.
  - In part, easy-to-obtain guns.
    
    There are a few more "parts" but those would be at the top of my list,
    
    Much respect.
    
    Ziggy

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:10 am

lemon_and_mint;733944 wrote: This time in a shopping mall in nebraska.

Are we becoming desensitised to these events, they seem to hwppen so often now?

Why are they happening so often?

Maybe it has something to do with media coverage? I just read a report that claimed the man's suicide note stated that he wanted to "go out in style." Maybe a few people feel that such actions gain them some sort of status, albeit negative.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:22 am

Have you ever seen any of the video games lately? The graphics? The blood?

How violent are the TV shows getting, and some of these shows that use to be late because they were considered more of ‘adult viewing’ are on at any time of the day.

Then as soon as someone commits mass murder the first thing Hollywood does is make a movie about the killer and sensationalizes it.

Add all of this up and bang! Bang Bang Bang!

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:29 am

yes, but mikeinie then

Are you saying that people cannot tell the difference between real life and things they see on films and in video games?

Lots of people have read Jack ketchum's The Girl Next Door, but I doubt that very many of them have gone out and tortured women.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:35 am

lemon_and_mint;734396 wrote: yes, but mikeinie then

Are you saying that people cannot tell the difference between real life and things they see on films and in video games?

Lots of people have read Jack ketchum's The Girl Next Door, but I doubt that very many of them have gone out and tortured women.

People in general, of course not, otherwise we would all be killing each other. I am only saying that it doesn’t help the situation, and it is very likely that those who do commit these crimes are more that likely influenced by the visual violence that they see around them.

I am no psychologist or anything, but it makes a degree of sense to me.

It is the philosophy question: does media imitate life, or life imitate media?

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:41 am

i do know what you are saying, but i have never understood it.

as for media imitating life or the inverse - often the media shows me things that i have no interest in, but other people must - the lives of celebrities for example.Or is it that as that is all the media shows us, the media thinks that is what we want?

If they showed us something else, would we like that better?

I actually think that some people live things through media that they would OTHERWISE do in real life - that is why I don't understand why it is a crime to possess pornography in some places - surely it is better that someone looks at this than goes out and attacks a woman? Therefore people get out their aggression by shooting characters in video games INSTEAD of going out and shooting people in real life.

And this young gunman apparent;ly left a suicide note to say that he wanted to go out in style - well, how about if he had done something amazing for his coomunity and then died (if he really wanted to die) that would be a stylish way to go, and he would be famous as well.

Post by **spot** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:08 am

lemon_and_mint;733944 wrote: Why are they happening so often?I think the surprising thing is that they happen so rarely. The young lad to whom you refer left a note saying why he did it and it's similar to what others in that position have said. They're close to leaving school or they've just left, they're sufficiently depressed with the prospect of living a normal lifespan in the society they see around them that suicide is an attractive option and they want fame. Some also want to register their protest at the nature of the society they refuse to live in. They have no other way of getting on national news and into at least the crime library for all time.

You can't tell them you wish they hadn't done it, they're dead.

You can tell people who might be thinking about doing it "hey, if you do that I'll hate you" but that's something of an incentive given their reasons.

I'm just amazed it doesn't happen every week. There must be a lot of very thoughtful depressed anonymous young men out there who've fought off the urge and I'd like to say thank you to each of them and hope their lives get more interesting to compensate for their sticking around and not hurting people.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:21 am

your last paragraph spot - you may well be right, but what a creepy thought.

Post by **spot** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:36 am

Creepy is my middle name, I've got lots more like that one.

SlipStream · Post by **SlipStream** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:46 am

lemon_and_mint;733944 wrote: This time in a shopping mall in nebraska.

Are we becoming desensitised to these events, they seem to hwppen so often now?

Why are they happening so often?

thik ya right lemnmint, it's way over mi head how these so called humans could do such a sick thing!

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:46 am

go on then spot, if you want to, always interested in hearing other people's views on the problems of society.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:13 am

Whatever these types of people may feel about society, being unhappy with your life does not give you the right to take the lives of other people whatever about your own life, and (even that is indulgent), though most people have entertained the idea of taking their own life (in the abstract as least), because life is hard.

The fact that people would weigh up whether morally and personally is it better to be alive, and perhaps unhappy with your present lot, but not responsible for killing innocent people; or a dead, infamous pathetic murderer, it makes it hard to see what the attraction is. I simply cannot understand how people could think that them being famous for 15 minutes (and not even around to enjoy your dark celebrity) that this was worth killing completely innocent strangers for no reason.

I went through my teens as well, and like all teenagers I sometimes felt alienated from wider society and all that, but I never for one second thought I had any right to other people's lives away from them. Of course the people who fit the profile of these types of killers are into the latter stages of psychosis (sic), but it doesn't make their actions any less reprehensible. You have to ask yourself what sort of value system is being imparted to certain people that makes them think this way. I just can't understand it, so utterly selfish, in a word: despicable.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:28 am

What i don't understand, galbally, is that these people who do such things do not usually wake up one morning and do it, completely out of character.

And often you get neighbours etc saying afterwards, oh he was always a loner, or a little odd, etc.

So how is it that they have slipped through a net where their doctor or their high school teacher or somebody who came into contact with them who was in a position to do so, didn't try getting them the help they obviously needed?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:38 am

lemon_and_mint;734618 wrote: What i don't understand, galbally, is that these people who do such things do not usually wake up one morning and do it, completely out of character.

And often you get neighbours etc saying afterwards, oh he was always a loner, or a little odd, etc.

So how is it that they have slipped through a net where their doctor or their high school teacher or somebody who came into contact with them who was in a position to do so, didn't try getting them the help they obviously needed?

I guess sometimes it really is that some people are just either disturbed enough or plain bad enough to think they are entitled to take the lives of others in this kinda manner. I suppose that in a lot of cases there could perhaps have been more heeding of warning signs of people who were in trouble, but I would be loathe to pass the responsibility of this away from the killers and onto their friends, families, or mental health services. The way I see it, if you take it upon yourself to murder people you and you alone are responsible for that, and its my belief that in some way you will answer for that little bit more evil you have brought into the world.

Now of course there are some people that are simply very mentally ill and are really not responsible for their actions, but the profile of these kind of mass killers is usually male loners, who don't fit in, or are depressed, or feel inadequate or whatever, and most of the time these crimes seem to be events of revenge on a society in general that some individuals want to blame for their own shortcomings or failures. I have little sympathy for them.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:47 am

oh no, i wasn't trying to suggest that the fault lay with anyone other than the person who did the act, just trying to understand why they got to that stage.