Vietnam .....................................

[Indian Princess]

First I would like to say THANK YOU

what you have done, and that I am appaled that schools touch if at all on this subject!! Can you beleive it?

[Indian Princess]

I go too a used book store called Squirrled Away Books" I get true account stories of Vietnam and WWI and WWII for my son to read, we read them together,aslo true spy accounts for all three wars, it is amazing !!!! Schools just touch on them if even that, now way am I going too have my son not k now the true accounts and horrors of what went on, some may think that too much, but I dont want him to join the services any of them, but if he did definately Marines!!!

It is important too pass on to each generation the true accounts of what happened, if they dont receive anything in school, then at home it will be, and I have taught him how it would be if these men had not died to give us freedom, the books portray them as baby killers, no not how I am teaching him, teenagers sent into a war, how would you become if you were sent too destroy a village?



Give the utmost respect for any service women or man!!!!!! No questions asked

[spot]

What on earth did you read about Vietnam in these books that's got you so excited, IP? I don't think from your tone that you're thanking the Vietnamese for anything at all. Which men died? Which nation's freedom was given? Who gave it?

[Indian Princess]

Not just Vietnam, WWI and WWII, I agree with you about the reasons why , for Vietnam, however, war is never a good idea, I feel it shouldnt be swept under the rug , My sons friends had no idea who Paul Revere or Johnny Tremain were either.

[Indian Princess]

To go forward into the future with success one must remember the past and not make the same mistakes

[along-for-the-ride]

To justify war and the multitude of casualities of wars, the government convinces us that they all died "for their country and their country's ideals; freedom, etc".

Sometimes, when I think of the "Wall" in DC, and Arlington, and all the other cemetaries scattered everywhere for fallen soldiers, my heart just aches.

There's got to be another course of action besides war. Besides so many young people dying.

[spot]

Indian Princess;736871 wrote: To go forward into the future with success one must remember the past and not make the same mistakes


What mistakes were those?

I watched an interview with Daniel Ellsberg. I'd recommend it to anyone wondering about the reason for the Vietnam war and whether there were mistakes involved.

I'd also just mention in passing that somewhere between one and two million Vietnamese died too. It shocks me every time I hear the figure that nobody was interested enough to keep count. What possible notion of self-defence was involved in sending US troops to Vietnam?

[spot]

It may be that people are disinclined to watch an interview over the internet in which case I've found a transcript instead.

Here's a rather chilling notion from it, if we're looking for modern-day parallels:Most of the time I was involved in Vietnam the year before that, and after a few months in Vietnam, it was quite clear that nothing lay ahead for us but frustration and stalemate and killing and dying. Very little hope of favorable or even an outcome that could be called acceptable, except for the possibility of postponing an open, clear-cut defeat or shift in policy.

Presidents, I found from studying it later in the files, had never really faced much recommendation that held out a clear-cut hope of a successful outcome in Vietnam to them. But on the other hand, they had faced the possibility that they could extend, they could postpone, that kind of embarrassment or that kind of defeat that was involved in getting out of Vietnam and letting the Vietnamese determine their own politics, which would have meant, clearly, over time, almost surely communist hegemony, communist domination in Vietnam by Vietnamese communists. And their alternative to that was that they could put it off at increasingly higher costs to the U.S. and to the Vietnamese, in terms of lives and money and involvement. But at that increasingly greater cost, they could keep the war going. Each president chose to do that, and that's what Kennedy chose and that's what Johnson chose while he was in office. And that's what Nixon chose until he was removed from office.

[Lon]

WHAT ABOUT KOREA? THAT WAS MY WAR, AND THAT ONE WAS JUSTIFIED.

[spot]

Wasn't the Korean Civil War an internationally mandated intervention? The UN Security Council condemned the North Korean invasion on June 23rd 1950 and the General Assembly voted for armed intervention two days later. Fifteen UN member states sent reinforcements to bolster the South Korean defence. How does that relate to Vietnam?

[Snooze]

Remember the Maine.

[Indian Princess]

Jeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, what are ya Spot a history teacher:wah::wah:

[Lon]

spot;738407 wrote: Wasn't the Korean Civil War an internationally mandated intervention? The UN Security Council condemned the North Korean invasion on June 23rd 1950 and the General Assembly voted for armed intervention two days later. Fifteen UN member states sent reinforcements to bolster the South Korean defence. How does that relate to Vietnam?


It only relates in the sense that it has almost been forgotten. There are tons of books that have been written about the Vietnam War and not very many about Korea, irrespective of the length of that war and the number of deaths and casualties. When one looks at the history of ALL US wars, Korea is surely the forgotten one. While there were certainly UN troops involved, the U.S. was the major player and was the first to go to the aid of the ROK"S (South Korean Army).

[spot]

Lon;738443 wrote: It only relates in the sense that it has almost been forgotten. There are tons of books that have been written about the Vietnam War and not very many about Korea, irrespective of the length of that war and the number of deaths and casualties. When one looks at the history of ALL US wars, Korea is surely the forgotten one. While there were certainly UN troops involved, the U.S. was the major player and was the first to go to the aid of the ROK"S (South Korean Army).


You had the nearest forces if I remember right, Japan was practically sinking under the weight of them.

I'm surprised you think the Korean Conflict is forgotten, I remember being asked about it by each of my children in turn when they covered it at school.

You know what puzzles me about how it started? Joe Stalin had withdrawn his delegation from the UN which could otherwise have vetoed international intervention. I wondered whether he did that deliberately to test Western willingness to fight, which seems to have been his main motivation in encouraging the invasion from the North to begin with.

[spot]

This may be the silliest thing I've ever asked but who was Johnny Tremain anyway?

[Snooze]

Oh my god, I remember having to read this in 8th grade! :wah:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Tremain

[spot]

He is, then, a character in an historical romance?

[Lon]

spot;738449 wrote: You had the nearest forces if I remember right, Japan was practically sinking under the weight of them.

I'm surprised you think the Korean Conflict is forgotten, I remember being asked about it by each of my children in turn when they covered it at school.

You know what puzzles me about how it started? Joe Stalin had withdrawn his delegation from the UN which could otherwise have vetoed international intervention. I wondered whether he did that deliberately to test Western willingness to fight, which seems to have been his main motivation in encouraging the invasion from the North to begin with.


Just Google in The Forgotten War and look at what you get.

[Snooze]

spot;738497 wrote: He is, then, a character in an historical romance?


More like an historical dramatization.