I look forward to reading the account of the trial of 19 year old Casey Aldridge. They have two homes?
California: The age of consent is 18, with a misdemeanor if the minor has less than 3 years of difference with the major. Penalties increase if the minor is under 14 and the major is above 21
Louisiana: Misdemeanor carnal knowledge of a juvenile is committed when a person who is seventeen years of age or older but less than nineteen years of age has sexual intercourse, with consent, with a person who is fifteen years of age or older but less than seventeen years of age, when the victim is not the spouse of the offender, and when the difference between the age of the victim and age of the offender is greater than two years.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
It's so easy to fall into the 'shame on the spears' mode. To shake our heads and wonder what kind of role model this very popular teen actress is to her fans.
Ya know what? This 16 year old girl, with everything going her way - has opted to have this baby and raise it. Stop and think how easy it would have been for her to just slip away and abort it. You suppose her agent didn't have a cow and try to point her in another direction?
This kid is voluntarily taking the harder road.
I think I would be proud if she were mine.
Ya know what? This 16 year old girl, with everything going her way - has opted to have this baby and raise it. Stop and think how easy it would have been for her to just slip away and abort it. You suppose her agent didn't have a cow and try to point her in another direction?
This kid is voluntarily taking the harder road.
I think I would be proud if she were mine.
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
grh;742769 wrote: It's so easy to fall into the 'shame on the spears' mode. To shake our heads and wonder what kind of role model this very popular teen actress is to her fans.
Ya know what? This 16 year old girl, with everything going her way - has opted to have this baby and raise it. Stop and think how easy it would have been for her to just slip away and abort it. You suppose her agent didn't have a cow and try to point her in another direction?
This kid is voluntarily taking the harder road.
I think I would be proud if she were mine.
The whole family is going to burn in hell for eternity.
Ya know what? This 16 year old girl, with everything going her way - has opted to have this baby and raise it. Stop and think how easy it would have been for her to just slip away and abort it. You suppose her agent didn't have a cow and try to point her in another direction?
This kid is voluntarily taking the harder road.
I think I would be proud if she were mine.
The whole family is going to burn in hell for eternity.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
grh;742769 wrote: It's so easy to fall into the 'shame on the spears' mode. To shake our heads and wonder what kind of role model this very popular teen actress is to her fans.It's the disparity of treatment that gets up my nose.
"It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor what gets the blame,
It's the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn't it a blooming shame?
"It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor what gets the blame,
It's the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
spot;742787 wrote: It's the disparity of treatment that gets up my nose.
"It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor what gets the blame,
It's the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Your statement makes no sense to me, Spot.
"It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor what gets the blame,
It's the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Your statement makes no sense to me, Spot.
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
grh;742796 wrote: Your statement makes no sense to me, Spot.
The law is applied to those without the resources to protect themselves from it, while those with power and influence can defy it with impunity.
The law is applied to those without the resources to protect themselves from it, while those with power and influence can defy it with impunity.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
I read earlier on TMZ that OK Mag is going to give Jaime Lynn $1 million for the first baby pictures. They said they will ONLY give $1 million because Jaime Lynn isn't a big celeb like others. In my opinion, one million is a hell of alot of money. They make it seem like that's a cheap amount to give.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
spot;742803 wrote: The law is applied to those without the resources to protect themselves from it, while those with power and influence can defy it with impunity.
You have got to be joking! Have you got any idea how many teenage pregnancies there are each year? Do you honest to god think the local police are going out and arresting every john q public for boinking a jane doe because she's not 18?
do you really???
There is more likely to be an arrest because someone has influence then because they don't!
You have got to be joking! Have you got any idea how many teenage pregnancies there are each year? Do you honest to god think the local police are going out and arresting every john q public for boinking a jane doe because she's not 18?
do you really???
There is more likely to be an arrest because someone has influence then because they don't!
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
-
littlemissgiggle
- Posts: 2345
- Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 1:27 pm
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
wow she is very pretty :-6
i didn't know Brit had any sisters.
i didn't know Brit had any sisters.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
littlemissgiggle;742829 wrote: wow she is very pretty :-6
i didn't know Brit had any sisters.
But can she lip sync ?
i didn't know Brit had any sisters.
But can she lip sync ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
My kids love to watch Zoey 101with Jamie and my eldest who is 9 years old, got told in school today that Jamie is pregnant and my daughter was questioning how someone so young and still at school could be having a baby
:(
:(-
drumbunny1
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 am
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
The thing that gets me is that they would sell the baby pics for a million dollars!!! I mean..true that is a lot of money..they also sold their story immediatley to OK! magazine...my feelings are that the family is trying to gain more fame and money through their TEENAGE daughters pregnancy. And my stepdaughter loves the show Zoey 101..and I will have a complete $%#* fit if she stays on the show during pregnancy!
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
grh;742769 wrote: It's so easy to fall into the 'shame on the spears' mode. To shake our heads and wonder what kind of role model this very popular teen actress is to her fans.
Ya know what? This 16 year old girl, with everything going her way - has opted to have this baby and raise it. Stop and think how easy it would have been for her to just slip away and abort it. You suppose her agent didn't have a cow and try to point her in another direction?
This kid is voluntarily taking the harder road.
I think I would be proud if she were mine.
If she were yours - you wouldn't have allowed her to move in with her boyfriend at the age of 16, would you?
Of course she is having it - the birth alone is getting her an easy million. Is she going to be raising it - I doubt it. I am sure that between what she makes on her t.v. show and the cool million she is making for the first baby pictures will go a long way towards hiring a live in nanny.
Ya know what? This 16 year old girl, with everything going her way - has opted to have this baby and raise it. Stop and think how easy it would have been for her to just slip away and abort it. You suppose her agent didn't have a cow and try to point her in another direction?
This kid is voluntarily taking the harder road.
I think I would be proud if she were mine.
If she were yours - you wouldn't have allowed her to move in with her boyfriend at the age of 16, would you?
Of course she is having it - the birth alone is getting her an easy million. Is she going to be raising it - I doubt it. I am sure that between what she makes on her t.v. show and the cool million she is making for the first baby pictures will go a long way towards hiring a live in nanny.
Sandi
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
grh;742827 wrote: You have got to be joking! Have you got any idea how many teenage pregnancies there are each year? Do you honest to god think the local police are going out and arresting every john q public for boinking a jane doe because she's not 18?
do you really???
There is more likely to be an arrest because someone has influence then because they don't!I think my point was that it's not every case. If it were it wouldn't be discriminatory. What I had in mind when I posted was Genarlow Wilson, there's a lot about his circumstances on the web, but I'll try to find an exact match instead for your "Do you honest to god think the local police are going out and arresting every john q public for boinking a jane doe because she's not 18?". Here's the Modesto Bee, August 9, 1998, "LETTER OF LAW TOUGH ON YOUNG FATHER". If you want the entire article posting I'll do that on request.Does society really want to see teen-age sweethearts like Eric Metcalf and Kara Wethern hauled into court every time a girl becomes an under-age mother? That's just what happened to the young couple. When they began dating, Metcalf was a 19-year-old graduate of Modesto High School and Wethern was a 16-year-old sophomore at Davis High School in Modesto.
[...] When the baby, Kayla, was born in January, he voluntarily admitted paternity and signed the appropriate documents at the hospital. His name was listed on the birth certificate as Kayla's father. Metcalf, now 20, asked Wethern, now 17, to marry him. She said yes. In April, the couple found an apartment and moved in together. Things were going just about as well as could be expected -- given the circumstances -- until the day two Modesto police officers knocked on the door.
[...] Metcalf later learned that under the statutory rape law, doctors and hospitals are required to report fathers who fit the profile -- three years or more older than the under-18 mother. It was the hospital where the couple's baby was born that tipped off the district attorney's office. Deputy District Attorney W.R. McKenzie said Metcalf's son was caught up in what has become a statewide priority during the last two years -- aggressive enforcement of the statutory rape law.
Most people, the Metcalfs and Wethern included, figured that meant getting tough with 30- and 40-year-old sexual predators -- older men who prey upon young girls. But McKenzie, the district attorney's point man on statutory rape prosecutions, said the law also applies to teen-agers like Metcalf and Wethern.
The impetus for the crackdown came from the Governor's Office of Criminal Justice Planning, he said, which began making grant money available to district attorneys. A spokesman for that office said 53 of the county's 58 counties are participating in the program. The grant money is drawn from the state's general fund and paid on a year-to-year basis. Last year, Stanislaus County accepted a $159,000 grant to launch what is known in bureaucratic parlance as a statutory rape vertical prosecution unit. It is designed to ensure that the same deputy district attorney handles statutory rape cases all the way through the system, from the initial complaint to the final disposition by the court. McKenzie said the program was not intended as a money-maker for the county or designed to satisfy some type of quota system. The state, however, does require participating district attorneys to report the significant numbers -- arrests, convictions, etc. -- every six months.Does that not sound like a significant program? The couple sound identical in every way to the thread's topic, the program's in the same state and it's extensive. Are they going to be trapped by it? Damn right they're not.
do you really???
There is more likely to be an arrest because someone has influence then because they don't!I think my point was that it's not every case. If it were it wouldn't be discriminatory. What I had in mind when I posted was Genarlow Wilson, there's a lot about his circumstances on the web, but I'll try to find an exact match instead for your "Do you honest to god think the local police are going out and arresting every john q public for boinking a jane doe because she's not 18?". Here's the Modesto Bee, August 9, 1998, "LETTER OF LAW TOUGH ON YOUNG FATHER". If you want the entire article posting I'll do that on request.Does society really want to see teen-age sweethearts like Eric Metcalf and Kara Wethern hauled into court every time a girl becomes an under-age mother? That's just what happened to the young couple. When they began dating, Metcalf was a 19-year-old graduate of Modesto High School and Wethern was a 16-year-old sophomore at Davis High School in Modesto.
[...] When the baby, Kayla, was born in January, he voluntarily admitted paternity and signed the appropriate documents at the hospital. His name was listed on the birth certificate as Kayla's father. Metcalf, now 20, asked Wethern, now 17, to marry him. She said yes. In April, the couple found an apartment and moved in together. Things were going just about as well as could be expected -- given the circumstances -- until the day two Modesto police officers knocked on the door.
[...] Metcalf later learned that under the statutory rape law, doctors and hospitals are required to report fathers who fit the profile -- three years or more older than the under-18 mother. It was the hospital where the couple's baby was born that tipped off the district attorney's office. Deputy District Attorney W.R. McKenzie said Metcalf's son was caught up in what has become a statewide priority during the last two years -- aggressive enforcement of the statutory rape law.
Most people, the Metcalfs and Wethern included, figured that meant getting tough with 30- and 40-year-old sexual predators -- older men who prey upon young girls. But McKenzie, the district attorney's point man on statutory rape prosecutions, said the law also applies to teen-agers like Metcalf and Wethern.
The impetus for the crackdown came from the Governor's Office of Criminal Justice Planning, he said, which began making grant money available to district attorneys. A spokesman for that office said 53 of the county's 58 counties are participating in the program. The grant money is drawn from the state's general fund and paid on a year-to-year basis. Last year, Stanislaus County accepted a $159,000 grant to launch what is known in bureaucratic parlance as a statutory rape vertical prosecution unit. It is designed to ensure that the same deputy district attorney handles statutory rape cases all the way through the system, from the initial complaint to the final disposition by the court. McKenzie said the program was not intended as a money-maker for the county or designed to satisfy some type of quota system. The state, however, does require participating district attorneys to report the significant numbers -- arrests, convictions, etc. -- every six months.Does that not sound like a significant program? The couple sound identical in every way to the thread's topic, the program's in the same state and it's extensive. Are they going to be trapped by it? Damn right they're not.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
drumbunny1;742883 wrote: The thing that gets me is that they would sell the baby pics for a million dollars!!! I mean..true that is a lot of money..they also sold their story immediatley to OK! magazine...my feelings are that the family is trying to gain more fame and money through their TEENAGE daughters pregnancy. And my stepdaughter loves the show Zoey 101..and I will have a complete $%#* fit if she stays on the show during pregnancy!
Yeah, much better to just let the press say whatever they want to say and have anonymous folks make the money!:rolleyes:
she's 3 months into this and for the last month everyone has been debating britney being pregnant or not. You don't think it would have become glaringly obvious in the next couple of months exactly which spears was pregnant?
And you don't think folks are already scheming to make money by sneaking pics of that baby? This is not any different then celebrity weddings were they sell the 'exclusive rights' to to a part of their life when they don't want 15000 stalking photographers coming out of the bushes at them.
Yeah, much better to just let the press say whatever they want to say and have anonymous folks make the money!:rolleyes:
she's 3 months into this and for the last month everyone has been debating britney being pregnant or not. You don't think it would have become glaringly obvious in the next couple of months exactly which spears was pregnant?
And you don't think folks are already scheming to make money by sneaking pics of that baby? This is not any different then celebrity weddings were they sell the 'exclusive rights' to to a part of their life when they don't want 15000 stalking photographers coming out of the bushes at them.
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
I notice the blame and disgust seems to be on the girl and not on the father...as usual. 16 is awfully immature to be responsible for something you'll have for the rest of your life but we all have to grow up sometime. And if it were up to me, I'd cram that statutory rape business right where it belongs. Either adjust it to fit actual child rapists or get rid of the damn thing.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
Lynne Spears's Parenting Book 'Delayed Indefinitely'
Source
:sneaky:
Source
:sneaky:
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
RedGlitter;742903 wrote: I notice the blame and disgust seems to be on the girl and not on the father...as usual. 16 is awfully immature to be responsible for something you'll have for the rest of your life but we all have to grow up sometime. And if it were up to me, I'd cram that statutory rape business right where it belongs. Either adjust it to fit actual child rapists or get rid of the damn thing.
Statutory rape *defines* child rapists, RG. Adjust it how you like, many people have tried over many years. What you end up defining as child rapists tells you what statutory rape is. What you define as statutory rape tells you what a child rapist is. Everyone knows the obvious core, nobody has a clue how to define the boundary without making lunatic cases like this one as a consequence. The reason is that the law employs average maturity and calendar age in its definition rather than considering individually what's suitable and proper. Because it's formulaic (and perhaps it needs to be predictable in order to be fair) it gives rise to unreasonable boundary conditions.
I found you a quote about the reasons for refusing to look at individual appropriateness instead of using calendar age formulas, in the Albany Law Review, March 22, 2007, "I can't to I Kant: the sexual harassment of working adolescents, competing theories, and ethical dilemmas." by Jennifer Ann Drobac:The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals recently took a variation on this approach in Doe v. Oberweis Dairy, a sexual harassment case brought under Title VII by a sixteen-year-old teenager. Judge Richard Posner explained:To avoid undermining valid state policy by reclassifying sex that the state deems nonconsensual as consensual, to simplify employment-discrimination litigation, and to avoid intractable inquiries into maturity that legislatures invariably pretermit by basing entitlements to public benefits (right to vote, right to drive, right to drink, right to own a gun, etc.) on specified ages rather than on a standard of "maturity," federal courts, rather than deciding whether a particular Title VII minor plaintiff was capable of "welcoming" the sexual advances of an older man, should defer to the judgment of average maturity in sexual matters that is reflected in the age of consent in the state in which the plaintiff is employed. That age of consent should thus be the rule of decision in Title VII cases.
Statutory rape *defines* child rapists, RG. Adjust it how you like, many people have tried over many years. What you end up defining as child rapists tells you what statutory rape is. What you define as statutory rape tells you what a child rapist is. Everyone knows the obvious core, nobody has a clue how to define the boundary without making lunatic cases like this one as a consequence. The reason is that the law employs average maturity and calendar age in its definition rather than considering individually what's suitable and proper. Because it's formulaic (and perhaps it needs to be predictable in order to be fair) it gives rise to unreasonable boundary conditions.
I found you a quote about the reasons for refusing to look at individual appropriateness instead of using calendar age formulas, in the Albany Law Review, March 22, 2007, "I can't to I Kant: the sexual harassment of working adolescents, competing theories, and ethical dilemmas." by Jennifer Ann Drobac:The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals recently took a variation on this approach in Doe v. Oberweis Dairy, a sexual harassment case brought under Title VII by a sixteen-year-old teenager. Judge Richard Posner explained:To avoid undermining valid state policy by reclassifying sex that the state deems nonconsensual as consensual, to simplify employment-discrimination litigation, and to avoid intractable inquiries into maturity that legislatures invariably pretermit by basing entitlements to public benefits (right to vote, right to drive, right to drink, right to own a gun, etc.) on specified ages rather than on a standard of "maturity," federal courts, rather than deciding whether a particular Title VII minor plaintiff was capable of "welcoming" the sexual advances of an older man, should defer to the judgment of average maturity in sexual matters that is reflected in the age of consent in the state in which the plaintiff is employed. That age of consent should thus be the rule of decision in Title VII cases.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
Spot, what's your personal opinion on this? I'm just curious how you feel about the issue.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
RedGlitter;742928 wrote: Spot, what's your personal opinion on this? I'm just curious how you feel about the issue.
That the thread wouldn't be meaningful in the UK where the age of consent is 16 and I have no idea why you strange people insist on making it any higher. That "the blame and disgust seems to be on the girl" because nobody's ever heard of the father but that if one of the Royal Princes were involved she'd not even get a look-in as far as blame or disgust goes.
I thought I'd get those out of the way before tackling that hard part, how to legislate appropriate sexual conduct.
My first step is to chip the problem down to its core and take out what doesn't belong. We have a reasonable natural definition of rape and sexual assault as non-consensual sexual contact of varying degrees. That's not at issue, those are criminal acts. We have other natural definitions of inappropriate relationships where guardianship is involved - parents and people standing in the role of parent such as teachers, coaches, authority figures. Those are also criminal acts. We have a definition of informed consent as it relates to drunkenness, unconsciousness, mental incapacity, where a lack also leads to criminalizing acts. By all means weight the sentencing to progressively penalize more heavily offences against younger victims.
What's left is the hard part. Society feels it can override the explicit wishes of the knowing precocious adolescent and in the case of some states in the USA it defines the knowing precocious adolescent as anyone under 18 who willingly participates in sexual contact outside a strictly limited age group usually no more than 2 years adrift. It overrides this behaviour by criminalizing the elder of the participants. Is a knowing precocious adolescent capable of wanting that contact? Yes. Is society right to forbid it? That's up to society to decide, it's why we elect representatives on declared platforms to legislate on such matters. It's comparable with legislating on sexual relationships between siblings, the view of the majority is imposed on the minority. There's no recognized intrinsic minority right to be defended in either case.
Once representative government has laid down the line between legal and criminal acts that line should be enforced impartially. If the line is defined on calendar ages then that's the test the court must apply, if it's a line based on a jury's evaluation of circumstances then that's the test instead. To enforce the test, whatever it's based on, selectively or occasionally or when someone complains or when it suits law enforcers is outrageous, it hands unauthorized power to people who have no right to exercise it - that principle surely applies to all criminal law. It's why I'm arguing that the subject matter of this thread should have an outcome in court, prosecution isn't discretionary.
That the thread wouldn't be meaningful in the UK where the age of consent is 16 and I have no idea why you strange people insist on making it any higher. That "the blame and disgust seems to be on the girl" because nobody's ever heard of the father but that if one of the Royal Princes were involved she'd not even get a look-in as far as blame or disgust goes.
I thought I'd get those out of the way before tackling that hard part, how to legislate appropriate sexual conduct.
My first step is to chip the problem down to its core and take out what doesn't belong. We have a reasonable natural definition of rape and sexual assault as non-consensual sexual contact of varying degrees. That's not at issue, those are criminal acts. We have other natural definitions of inappropriate relationships where guardianship is involved - parents and people standing in the role of parent such as teachers, coaches, authority figures. Those are also criminal acts. We have a definition of informed consent as it relates to drunkenness, unconsciousness, mental incapacity, where a lack also leads to criminalizing acts. By all means weight the sentencing to progressively penalize more heavily offences against younger victims.
What's left is the hard part. Society feels it can override the explicit wishes of the knowing precocious adolescent and in the case of some states in the USA it defines the knowing precocious adolescent as anyone under 18 who willingly participates in sexual contact outside a strictly limited age group usually no more than 2 years adrift. It overrides this behaviour by criminalizing the elder of the participants. Is a knowing precocious adolescent capable of wanting that contact? Yes. Is society right to forbid it? That's up to society to decide, it's why we elect representatives on declared platforms to legislate on such matters. It's comparable with legislating on sexual relationships between siblings, the view of the majority is imposed on the minority. There's no recognized intrinsic minority right to be defended in either case.
Once representative government has laid down the line between legal and criminal acts that line should be enforced impartially. If the line is defined on calendar ages then that's the test the court must apply, if it's a line based on a jury's evaluation of circumstances then that's the test instead. To enforce the test, whatever it's based on, selectively or occasionally or when someone complains or when it suits law enforcers is outrageous, it hands unauthorized power to people who have no right to exercise it - that principle surely applies to all criminal law. It's why I'm arguing that the subject matter of this thread should have an outcome in court, prosecution isn't discretionary.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
drumbunny1
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 am
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
This could just be a specific state thing but I was aware that if a girl/boy is under the age of 16 then a district attorney could prosicute without the parental consent, but if the minor is above the age of 16 and below 18 ofcourse the parents had to be the ones to press charges and give the D.A. the go-ahead...this could be a good law since many 16 year old girls do go with guys around 18-19....I dated a guy who was 20 when I was 17 and my parents had no problem with it...so if its up to the parents (or "victim") that might keep some young guys out of jail!
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
drumbunny1;742942 wrote: if the minor is above the age of 16 and below 18 ofcourse the parents had to be the ones to press charges and give the D.A. the go-ahead...
Where does that happen? If you read what I posted about Eric Metcalf and Kara Wethern it's precisely what didn't happen.
Where does that happen? If you read what I posted about Eric Metcalf and Kara Wethern it's precisely what didn't happen.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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drumbunny1
- Posts: 189
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Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
I live in Oregon, so I'm assuming the person who told me this was talking about Oregon, but I'm not sure if its true or written in stone.....
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
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Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
I was just at CNN.com reading reader comments about this situation. Wow, are people quick to pass judgement on this girl! I agree that with modern day birth control, it didn't need to happen (presuming they used none, rather than it failed) but comments like "I'm going to tell my children not to have sex until they're married at the ripe old age of 30" are just ignorant. It irritates me that people still promote these attitudes. 
I mean the article's title is "How do you talk to kids about Britneys's sister?" Come on, is it really that hard to figure out? Or such a terrible, hush-hush thing? http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/1 ... index.html
I mean the article's title is "How do you talk to kids about Britneys's sister?" Come on, is it really that hard to figure out? Or such a terrible, hush-hush thing? http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/1 ... index.html
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
spot;742953 wrote: Where does that happen? If you read what I posted about Eric Metcalf and Kara Wethern it's precisely what didn't happen.
When I google eric metcalf all I get is a running back. is the example you are giving really from 1998?
here's something i found from 2002
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020501/curbside.html
-5 California child abuse law requires health practitioners and other child-related professionals to report statutory rape only when the adult is 21 years or older and the minor is younger than 16 years.6 California law also specifically states that "the pregnancy of a minor does not, in and of itself, constitute a reasonable suspicion of child abuse."6
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Just another thought... why wouldn't kids simply say they were in another state when they had the sex?
When I google eric metcalf all I get is a running back. is the example you are giving really from 1998?
here's something i found from 2002
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020501/curbside.html
-5 California child abuse law requires health practitioners and other child-related professionals to report statutory rape only when the adult is 21 years or older and the minor is younger than 16 years.6 California law also specifically states that "the pregnancy of a minor does not, in and of itself, constitute a reasonable suspicion of child abuse."6
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Just another thought... why wouldn't kids simply say they were in another state when they had the sex?
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
grh;743156 wrote: When I google eric metcalf all I get is a running back. is the example you are giving really from 1998?Why would you expect much press coverage of a minor matter? Yes it's from 1998 - I was finding an exact match for the state and both ages and as you've found there aren't many reports despite the number of cases. It's only when you get a cause celebre like Genarow Wilson that it hits the headlines, and he must be recent enough for you.
Statutory Rape Vertical Prosecution Units are still out there, still doing the job I described. I agree that statutory child abuse law might not itself require health practitioners and other child-related professionals to make reports on the borderline age group but the District Attorney's offices request them and get compliance. Nothing we've each written is contradictory.
As for "why wouldn't kids simply say they were in another state when they had the sex" I expect - though I'm not certain, but I do think it's likely - that once they're in the jurisdiction where the law operates in a given fashion it makes no difference where the crime was committed. If it does make a difference, aren't there far worse federal offences that cut in? I have in the back of my mind the words "transporting women across a state line for immoral purposes" but I could be very out of date with that.A mad scientist was attempting to discover a way to live forever. He couldn't get human subjects to experiment on, so instead he had a couple of dolphins, which he kept in the pool behind his house.
One day, studying his notes, he realized that all he needed to complete his formula was a chemical found in the bodies of seabirds. Grabbing a couple of cages, he ran down to the beach.
While he was out, a lion escaped from a nearby zoo. Fortunately, it was an old and toothless beast, and it merely ambled down the street until it reached the scientist's stoop, where it decided to lie down to rest.
When the scientist returned with his birds, he was so excited at the prospect of success that he just jumped right over the lion and rushed into the house. But before he could do anything, the FBI broke down the door and arrested him.
The charge? Transporting gulls across a staid lion for immortal porpoises.
(stolen verbatim from the internet)
Statutory Rape Vertical Prosecution Units are still out there, still doing the job I described. I agree that statutory child abuse law might not itself require health practitioners and other child-related professionals to make reports on the borderline age group but the District Attorney's offices request them and get compliance. Nothing we've each written is contradictory.
As for "why wouldn't kids simply say they were in another state when they had the sex" I expect - though I'm not certain, but I do think it's likely - that once they're in the jurisdiction where the law operates in a given fashion it makes no difference where the crime was committed. If it does make a difference, aren't there far worse federal offences that cut in? I have in the back of my mind the words "transporting women across a state line for immoral purposes" but I could be very out of date with that.A mad scientist was attempting to discover a way to live forever. He couldn't get human subjects to experiment on, so instead he had a couple of dolphins, which he kept in the pool behind his house.
One day, studying his notes, he realized that all he needed to complete his formula was a chemical found in the bodies of seabirds. Grabbing a couple of cages, he ran down to the beach.
While he was out, a lion escaped from a nearby zoo. Fortunately, it was an old and toothless beast, and it merely ambled down the street until it reached the scientist's stoop, where it decided to lie down to rest.
When the scientist returned with his birds, he was so excited at the prospect of success that he just jumped right over the lion and rushed into the house. But before he could do anything, the FBI broke down the door and arrested him.
The charge? Transporting gulls across a staid lion for immortal porpoises.
(stolen verbatim from the internet)
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
*groan* :wah:
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
spot;742938 wrote: That the thread wouldn't be meaningful in the UK where the age of consent is 16 and I have no idea why you strange people insist on making it any higher. That "the blame and disgust seems to be on the girl" because nobody's ever heard of the father but that if one of the Royal Princes were involved she'd not even get a look-in as far as blame or disgust goes.
I thought I'd get those out of the way before tackling that hard part, how to legislate appropriate sexual conduct.
My first step is to chip the problem down to its core and take out what doesn't belong. We have a reasonable natural definition of rape and sexual assault as non-consensual sexual contact of varying degrees. That's not at issue, those are criminal acts. We have other natural definitions of inappropriate relationships where guardianship is involved - parents and people standing in the role of parent such as teachers, coaches, authority figures. Those are also criminal acts. We have a definition of informed consent as it relates to drunkenness, unconsciousness, mental incapacity, where a lack also leads to criminalizing acts. By all means weight the sentencing to progressively penalize more heavily offences against younger victims.
What's left is the hard part. Society feels it can override the explicit wishes of the knowing precocious adolescent and in the case of some states in the USA it defines the knowing precocious adolescent as anyone under 18 who willingly participates in sexual contact outside a strictly limited age group usually no more than 2 years adrift. It overrides this behaviour by criminalizing the elder of the participants. Is a knowing precocious adolescent capable of wanting that contact? Yes. Is society right to forbid it? That's up to society to decide, it's why we elect representatives on declared platforms to legislate on such matters. It's comparable with legislating on sexual relationships between siblings, the view of the majority is imposed on the minority. There's no recognized intrinsic minority right to be defended in either case.
Once representative government has laid down the line between legal and criminal acts that line should be enforced impartially. If the line is defined on calendar ages then that's the test the court must apply, if it's a line based on a jury's evaluation of circumstances then that's the test instead. To enforce the test, whatever it's based on, selectively or occasionally or when someone complains or when it suits law enforcers is outrageous, it hands unauthorized power to people who have no right to exercise it - that principle surely applies to all criminal law. It's why I'm arguing that the subject matter of this thread should have an outcome in court, prosecution isn't discretionary.
How long has the age of consent been 16, Spot?
I thought I'd get those out of the way before tackling that hard part, how to legislate appropriate sexual conduct.
My first step is to chip the problem down to its core and take out what doesn't belong. We have a reasonable natural definition of rape and sexual assault as non-consensual sexual contact of varying degrees. That's not at issue, those are criminal acts. We have other natural definitions of inappropriate relationships where guardianship is involved - parents and people standing in the role of parent such as teachers, coaches, authority figures. Those are also criminal acts. We have a definition of informed consent as it relates to drunkenness, unconsciousness, mental incapacity, where a lack also leads to criminalizing acts. By all means weight the sentencing to progressively penalize more heavily offences against younger victims.
What's left is the hard part. Society feels it can override the explicit wishes of the knowing precocious adolescent and in the case of some states in the USA it defines the knowing precocious adolescent as anyone under 18 who willingly participates in sexual contact outside a strictly limited age group usually no more than 2 years adrift. It overrides this behaviour by criminalizing the elder of the participants. Is a knowing precocious adolescent capable of wanting that contact? Yes. Is society right to forbid it? That's up to society to decide, it's why we elect representatives on declared platforms to legislate on such matters. It's comparable with legislating on sexual relationships between siblings, the view of the majority is imposed on the minority. There's no recognized intrinsic minority right to be defended in either case.
Once representative government has laid down the line between legal and criminal acts that line should be enforced impartially. If the line is defined on calendar ages then that's the test the court must apply, if it's a line based on a jury's evaluation of circumstances then that's the test instead. To enforce the test, whatever it's based on, selectively or occasionally or when someone complains or when it suits law enforcers is outrageous, it hands unauthorized power to people who have no right to exercise it - that principle surely applies to all criminal law. It's why I'm arguing that the subject matter of this thread should have an outcome in court, prosecution isn't discretionary.
How long has the age of consent been 16, Spot?
When choosing between two evils, I always like to take the one I've never tried before.
Mae West
Mae West
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
In England? It's floated around a lot over the years. For heterosexual acts it was first subject to legislation in 1275 when it was set at 12. It went up to 13 in 1875 after a journalist and the head of the Salvation Army were jailed for exposing juvenile prostitution in London, and settled at 16 in 1885 after a parliamentary commission heard a stack of evidence which is quite interesting to read through.
Male homosexual acts were outlawed in 1533, legalized at 21 in 1967, reduced to 18 in 1994 and to 16 in 1997.
Female homosexual acts were made illegal for under-16s in 2000, prior to that lesbianism was untouched by legislation at all.
Male homosexual acts were outlawed in 1533, legalized at 21 in 1967, reduced to 18 in 1994 and to 16 in 1997.
Female homosexual acts were made illegal for under-16s in 2000, prior to that lesbianism was untouched by legislation at all.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant.
Here we are - the consequence of not taking the little sod to court at the time:Jamie Lynn Spears and her fiance, who's still dealing with rumors that he railed Kelli Dawson feverishly while JLS was preggers, is now looking to bolt ASAP - and plans to take 2-month-old daughter Maddie Briann with him.
This new, scandalous chapter in the teen couple's ongoing saga could spell heartache for Jamie Lynn as Casey Aldridge is gearing up for a split - and readying for a courtroom brawl, if needed, in order to keep Maddie. "He's not a spiteful person," a friend says. "But he feels that he's entitled to a chunk of Jamie Lynn's millions. He plays to win. He doesn't really want custody, but he knows it might be his best weapon against Jamie Lynn."
http://www.fashion.ie/aggregator/gossip ... ynn-spears
This new, scandalous chapter in the teen couple's ongoing saga could spell heartache for Jamie Lynn as Casey Aldridge is gearing up for a split - and readying for a courtroom brawl, if needed, in order to keep Maddie. "He's not a spiteful person," a friend says. "But he feels that he's entitled to a chunk of Jamie Lynn's millions. He plays to win. He doesn't really want custody, but he knows it might be his best weapon against Jamie Lynn."
http://www.fashion.ie/aggregator/gossip ... ynn-spears
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.