Real fur being labeled as faux

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:07 pm

Most of the fur sold in these stores is from China, where they skin the animals alive.

Click

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:27 pm

It seems umbelievable to me that it is cheaper for manafacturers to pass off real fur for faux!!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:34 pm

Oh this p.isses me OFF!!

Will they never cease to stoop to new levels of low?!

I won't buy fake fur because I'm afraid someone might think it was real and think me so coldhearted that I would ever wear the real stuff. Now I have even more reason not to buy it!

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:30 pm

Oh come on Snooze - "where they skin the animals alive"? That's such weasely words - every meat animal in the USA is bled out alive if you want to put it in those terms. These fur-trade animals are electrically stunned first and I bet there's no higher a proportion of conscious animals skinned in China than there are conscious animals hung by their ankles with their throats slit in the States.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:45 pm

Snooze isn't making that up, Spot. It is correct. The Korean and Chinese fur "industry" if we're to call it that, is incredibly inhumane. Their treatment of "food animals" is equally abhorrent. I recall seeing footage of two Korean men blowtorching living, breathing and unfortunately conscious dogs which were to be used as food.Why take time to properly stun an animal when it's just an animal and time is money? What you say about the western world and it's animals being treated as they are is also correct. I don't think many who are educated about those procedures would disagree except to protect the industry's "reputation." Regardless of what part of the world we're pointing fingers at, it's repugnant and unnecessary and needs to be brought to light so it can be stopped.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:19 pm

I posted a video earlier this month with just the same conscious animal slaughter in the USA. I'm quite sure both videos are exceptions, not the rule. Can you imagine anyone being so stupid as to try to skin a conscious animal while it's wriggling to get free? Of course the vast majority and are intentionally unconscious. It would be madness to think otherwise.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:29 pm

Treating animals inhumanely is just plain wrong. Do not take me wrong on that point.

I cannot believe that people who condone killing innocent human life by sucking it’s brains out or crushing its scull while it’s alive can in contrast be so concerned about life that isn’t human.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:31 pm

spot;745642 wrote: Oh come on Snooze - "where they skin the animals alive"? That's such weasely words - every meat animal in the USA is bled out alive if you want to put it in those terms. These fur-trade animals are electrically stunned first and I bet there's no higher a proportion of conscious animals skinned in China than there are conscious animals hung by their ankles with their throats slit in the States.

Cattle are killed before being hung up. Or atleast that's the way it's done at our local meat processing plant.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:34 pm

Spot, I don't know if I saw those films or not. I have seen enough footage and been to enough slaughteryards seeing how the livestock are treated *before* they're killed that I can't imagine any kindness being shown them in death. I wish this treatment were the exception rather than the rule but it happens too often to be an accidental random thing. At one of the big turkey plants near Thanksgiving this year, workers were caught footballing turkeys.

Maybe it didn't make it to the UK but some years back a cow was downed in a slaughteryard, as I recall she was hurt and sick when she was taken off truck. Her eye was bleeding, her hip was broken and workers stepped on her, yelling at her. They proceeded to drag this poor cow with the busted hip to slaughter by tractor and chain. It caused an outrage and thanks to this cow and the people who cared, the Downed Animal Protection Act was created. I could give example after example but the bottom line is whenever it's animals up against money, the animals lose.

Pigs are bled when they're still squealing, cows are hung improperly and their legs break off from their bodies while they're on the hook. Minks get something like 30,000 volts anally while they're still alive, etc, etc. And *that's* just in America. It has to stop. The only way to do that is to bring it to light so decent humans can make legislature to stop the inhumanity.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:35 pm

Clint;745656 wrote: Treating animals inhumanely is just plain wrong. Do not take me wrong on that point.

I cannot believe that people who condone killing innocent human life by sucking it’s brains out or crushing its scull while it’s alive can in contrast be so concerned about life that isn’t human.

I hope we can stick to the subject.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:36 pm

RedGlitter;745660 wrote: I hope we can stick to the subject.

Clint does make a good point though!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:37 pm

RedGlitter;745660 wrote: I hope we can stick to the subject.

How is my point not on the subject?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:37 pm

Well, we'll agree to differ on that as I don't personally think so.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:38 pm

RedGlitter;745663 wrote: Well, we'll agree to differ on that as I don't personally think so.

Why?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:38 pm

Clint;745662 wrote: How is my point not on the subject?

Because this isn't an abortion thread. Nor is it about whether or not animals are less or more than humans. Those things only cause arguments. This is only about improper killing methods and inhuman treatment of animals.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:40 pm

RedGlitter;745665 wrote: Because this isn't an abortion thread. Nor is it about whether or not animals are less or more than humans. Those things only cause arguments. This is only about improper killing methods and inhuman treatment of animals.

Any other time you would equate human life with animal life. Why is this different?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:44 pm

Clint;745666 wrote: Any other time you would equate human life with animal life. Why is this different?

Because I don't wish to be baited into yet another argument over my personal views, which is exactly how I took your original comment, Clint. This is not a "get RedGlitter on the animal issue" thread nor will I let it become one. It's also not an abortion discussion. I'm not telling you how I think you should post, I'm just saying I won't be a part of it. That I happen to disagree with your opinion has nothing to do with it.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:47 pm

RedGlitter;745672 wrote: Because I don't wish to be baited into yet another argument over my personal views, which is exactly how I took your original comment, Clint. This is not a "get RedGlitter on the animal issue" thread nor will I let it become one. It's also not an abortion discussion. I'm not telling you how I think you should post, I'm just saying I won't be a part of it. That I happen to disagree with your opinion has nothing to do with it.

You can't discuss it because there is no rationalization that will work. I'm done.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:47 pm

Clint;745673 wrote: You can't discuss it because there is no rationalization that will work. I'm done.

Good. Thank you.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:15 pm

Fine !

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RedGlitter;745658 wrote: Spot, I don't know if I saw those films or not. I have seen enough footage and been to enough slaughteryards seeing how the livestock are treated *before* they're killed that I can't imagine any kindness being shown them in death.

Here it is - 9 days ago. You're right about the lack of kindness.

Sheryl;745657 wrote: Cattle are killed before being hung up. Or atleast that's the way it's done at our local meat processing plant.

They're called stun bolts for a reason Sheryl. If the heart isn't beating when the throat's slit the cow (or whatever's being bled) doesn't drain. They're all alive, they're just not meant to be conscious.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:28 pm

Ohh..I guess I figured that a bolt to the brain would kill them.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:30 pm

Sheryl;745711 wrote: Ohh..I guess I figured that a bolt to the brain would kill them.

Under normal circumstances yes.

These arent those kind of cows though.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:31 pm

Sheryl;745711 wrote: Ohh..I guess I figured that a bolt to the brain would kill them.I used to spend my Saturday afternoons sat on the wall of the local slaughter yard when I was six or so, they used two pound hammers to the forehead back then and the pulsing jets of blood were quite convincing as far as alive goes.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:31 pm

bad Nomad bad..:wah:

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:32 pm

spot;745716 wrote: I used to spend my Saturday afternoons sat on the wall of the local slaughter yard when I was six or so, they used two pound hammers to the forehead back then and the pulsing jets of blood were quite convincing as far as alive goes.

I watched my babysitter slaughter his goats once. Wasn't pretty. And the meat wasn't fit for eating, to stringy.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:35 pm

Kids these days with their Grand Theft Auto videogames, they don't know what real killing's about at all.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:36 pm

Thanks Spot for the link. I have been thinking of returning to vegetarianism this coming year (I was one for three years) and being reminded of what is done to the "food" on my plate definitely helps my decision. Although- what does it say about us as humans that we need to be

reminded" of such atrocities? One would think seeing something like that just once would be all that would be necessary...

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:39 pm

I think it's because humans have been carnivores since beginning of time.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:39 pm

spot;745723 wrote: Kids these days with their Grand Theft Auto videogames, they don't know what real killing's about at all.

Gimmee Charlie Manson any day.

The good ole days.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:43 pm

If anyone's actually bothered about "conscious" since that was the original claim (which in the case of the vast majority of skinning I find beyond belief, in China or anywhere else) I might mention that conscious (as opposed to stunned) bleeding to death is actually a requirement for anything labelled kosher.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:45 pm

so my using kosher salt is useless? :-2

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:45 pm

Speaking of skinning I wonder if scalping will ever become fashionable again.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:49 pm

Sheryl;745734 wrote: so my using kosher salt is useless? :-2
Sheryl, if your salt's ritually slaughtered I'm definitely going to stick to million year old salt licks from now on even if it's gritty.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:50 pm

:wah: I don't know how they make it, just that the box sais Kosher salt.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:52 pm

I retract my "anything", my mind was elsewhere.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:56 pm

spot;745743 wrote: I retract my "anything", my mind was elsewhere.

The rest of us would like to know where your mind is.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:54 am

Back to the original topic, I saw in an other article on this a couple a months ago where the fur that is used in ‘fake fur’ coats and hats etc is mostly made up of cat fur.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:38 am

spot;745716 wrote: I used to spend my Saturday afternoons sat on the wall of the local slaughter yard when I was six or so, they used two pound hammers to the forehead back then and the pulsing jets of blood were quite convincing as far as alive goes.

This explains so much.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:41 am

Here's another news article about the issue. What originally made me curious was when a co-worker wore a coat that had a fringe of obviously real fur along the edge of the hood. I snuck a peek at the label and it identified the fur as some kind of cat that I and google had never heard of... in other words, they, the coat manufacturer, made up a new name rather than saying it was from a tabby cat.

Click

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:38 am

mikeinie;745799 wrote: Back to the original topic, I saw in an other article on this a couple a months ago where the fur that is used in ‘fake fur’ coats and hats etc is mostly made up of cat fur.

Oh?? Geez that's upsetting. I'm curious we get these items just from overseas or if the US takes part in bad fur too.