The Hurt Man Causes To Animals

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:47 pm

Ive been busy cutting all my dogs fur.......I love them all to bits and thought as I was doing it how lucky I was to have such unconditional love from them.Then I was brought down with a bang. I watched Richard and Judy ..... the bit about those poor bears in the far east.My God what they have to go through..........locked up for upto 25 years in a cage chained up and unable to move AT ALL...having stuff being taken from them.Broke my bloody heart I can tell you..Some humans have no damn respect for animals.Let me tell you something...I have had chickens killed, ducks also by foxes but still NO way should they be hunted the way that they are.How on earth can people enjoy hunting an animal and watch it being ripped apart and say they do it to control the foxes. What bullshit is that.I live in the bloody country and think its sick.....also what happens to the deer............all for the "enjoyment" of man...and mainly a certain type of person.They breed birds so they can kill them..........tell you ...........man will never learn and will one day will destroy himself as well..........

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:30 pm

Huh? Who's Judy and Richard? I get they are bears, but the rest of it went over my head.

What do you mean by certain type of man?

Humans have hunted for their food since beginning of time. Then, we finally evolved to be smart enough to grow food, but before that people followed the animal herds and foraged. Today most folks don't hunt for their food, unless you count the fighting to get the butcher's attention at the grocery as hunting. There are some people who still hunt wild game, deer, elk, pheasant, ect. And the majority of those hunters take their kill and have it butchered for their freezers.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:31 pm

jimbo;754847 wrote: I OFTEN THINK OF THINGS LIKE THIS

every road ,every house ,every car park every man made object has turfed out animals and when they try to get a home we shoot them as vermin

every farmers field ,everything we do destroys animals and this planet

how would we feel if the was a more advanced race than us ,that took our land and farmed us and gutted us and our children then packeged our people or hung up on metal hooks waiting for us to be taken and devoured

its at times like this i'm glad i'm a sub human moron

Jim some folk are laughing at the law by going fox hunting.If I broke the law I would be in alot of trouble.It seems we have one law for one and one for another....and funny how most of those "others" are of a certain breed.

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:33 pm

Carolly;754837 wrote: Ive been busy cutting all my dogs fur.......I love them all to bits and thought as I was doing it how lucky I was to have such unconditional love from them.Then I was brought down with a bang. I watched Richard and Judy ..... the bit about those poor bears in the far east.My God what they have to go through..........locked up for upto 25 years in a cage chained up and unable to move AT ALL...having stuff being taken from them.Broke my bloody heart I can tell you..Some humans have no damn respect for animals.Let me tell you something...I have had chickens killed, ducks also by foxes but still NO way should they be hunted the way that they are.How on earth can people enjoy hunting an animal and watch it being ripped apart and say they do it to control the foxes. What bullshit is that.I live in the bloody country and think its sick.....also what happens to the deer............all for the "enjoyment" of man...and mainly a certain type of person.They breed birds so they can kill them..........tell you ...........man will never learn and will one day will destroy himself as well..........

I recorded Richard and Judy and was just going to watch it when my daughter rang. But reading what you posted, I think I'll leave it until tomorrow. There used to be an advertisement on about a year or so ago , an appeal for an animal charity and that showed a bear in torment...it was awful. Maybe you saw it?

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:35 pm

Sheryl;754854 wrote: Huh? Who's Judy and Richard? I get they are bears, but the rest of it went over my head.

What do you mean by certain type of man?

Humans have hunted for their food since beginning of time. Then, we finally evolved to be smart enough to grow food, but before that people followed the animal herds and foraged. Today most folks don't hunt for their food, unless you count the fighting to get the butcher's attention at the grocery as hunting. There are some people who still hunt wild game, deer, elk, pheasant, ect. And the majority of those hunters take their kill and have it butchered for their freezers.First Sheryl its a programme on English television and no they are not bears.....they are a husband and wife team who are quite well known here.By a certain type of man ................well it means exactly that.And as for the freezer bit..........its not for food they hunting for and that is the problem.....its just plain enjoyment.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:38 pm

Can you provide me a link for the Judy and Richard bit?

I'm still not clear on what you meant by certain type of man!

Wow I cannot believe you lump all folks who hunt, as doing it for entertainment.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:49 pm

Sheryl;754865 wrote: Can you provide me a link for the Judy and Richard bit?

I'm still not clear on what you meant by certain type of man!

Wow I cannot believe you lump all folks who hunt, as doing it for entertainment.
Sheryl I dont think I can provide a link.....sorry. I also feel you are not getting what Im trying to say here.I am not talking about people that may want to or have to hunt for food so lets get that out of the way. Im talking about people who do it PURELY for entertainment.Ok............do the royal family need to kill for food.........I think not.They do it because they want to its that simple and love to go fox hunting also.Have you ever seen a fox killed in a hunt..........or worse still have you ever had a cat ripped apart by those dogs hunting because I have and trust me when I say its a heartbreaking thing to find.....and for what......foxes can be controlled in other ways other than being ripped apart as my cat was. I dont like talking about this as it is upsetting but I have had to to show you what this sport.....and thats what they call it....can bring.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:52 pm

Ohh..I thought you were referring to all hunters in general. Yes I've seen cats that were victim to dogs. And I didn't know they still had fox hunts in Britian. I thought that was events that occured long ago and in bad American made British movies.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:58 pm

Sheryl;754875 wrote: Ohh..I thought you were referring to all hunters in general. Yes I've seen cats that were victim to dogs. And I didn't know they still had fox hunts in Britian. I thought that was events that occured long ago and in bad American made British movies. :oSheryl its been banned love but it is still going on. We have quite a few round here.The thing is we are meant to be animal lovers here and that is aload of old bull.They still hunt deer also and I find that also heartbreaking as also its regarded as a sport.Good to have your opinion;)

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:01 pm

theia;754858 wrote: I recorded Richard and Judy and was just going to watch it when my daughter rang. But reading what you posted, I think I'll leave it until tomorrow. There used to be an advertisement on about a year or so ago , an appeal for an animal charity and that showed a bear in torment...it was awful. Maybe you saw it?
Dont watch it babe if your going to get upset like I did.We all have our teddy bears as kids and cuddle them because we love them so......why oh why are the real beautiful creatures treated so cruely .Why??????

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:10 pm

Sheryl;754865 wrote: Can you provide me a link for the Judy and Richard bit?

I'm still not clear on what you meant by certain type of man!

Wow I cannot believe you lump all folks who hunt, as doing it for entertainment.

Hunting over here is very different to hunting in the States.

Mid morning a group of upper class twits gather outside the local hostelry with their kennel masters and dogs. Then, after consuming copious libations, the gallop around the countryside to see if the dogs can flush a fox.

If a fox is sighted then it is chased until exhaustion at which point the dogs catch it and rip it to shreds. Then the return to the pub for more drinks.

If it happens that there is a youth on his first hunt and they kill a fox then they cut its tail off and smear the bloody end round the boys face to "blood" him.

Lovely people eh wot!

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:15 pm

Bryn Mawr;754885 wrote: Hunting over here is very different to hunting in the States.

Mid morning a group of upper class twits gather outside the local hostelry with their kennel masters and dogs. Then, after consuming copious libations, the gallop around the countryside to see if the dogs can flush a fox.

If a fox is sighted then it is chased until exhaustion at which point the dogs catch it and rip it to shreds. Then the return to the pub for more drinks.

If it happens that there is a youth on his first hunt and they kill a fox then they cut its tail off and smear the bloody end round the boys face to "blood" him.

Lovely people eh wot!Bryn thankyou so much for explaining it so bang on.Every word you write is exactly what happens and what really gets me is when they try to defend what they are doing the thoughtless,cruel gits.

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:17 pm

I'm just watching Hugh fearnley Whittingstall's Chicken Run, about factory farmed chickens...the major supermarkets don't want to speak on the programme and neither do the farmers, so he is setting up his own intensive chicken farm with four thousand chickens to show people what it's really like, in the hope that more people will buy and encourage free range farming.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:27 pm

theia;754893 wrote: I'm just watching Hugh fearnley Whittingstall's Chicken Run, about factory farmed chickens...the major supermarkets don't want to speak on the programme and neither do the farmers, so he is setting up his own intensive chicken farm with four thousand chickens to show people what it's really like, in the hope that more people will buy and encourage free range farming.To be honest darlin I cant bring myself to watch that.I know what goes on and again its heartbreaking.I see the lorries round here delivering the chickens to the factory where they are killed etc.That even upsets me to see them in those jam packed crates.I saw the following advertised at a food hall not very far from here............Aligator.....Frogs legs.......Kangeroo AND Zebra.........my God all for mans greed........as if we cant live without eating a Zebra fgs.....we have become monsters just wanting to kill anything that moves it appears.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:56 pm

Bryn Mawr;754885 wrote: Hunting over here is very different to hunting in the States.

Mid morning a group of upper class twits gather outside the local hostelry with their kennel masters and dogs. Then, after consuming copious libations, the gallop around the countryside to see if the dogs can flush a fox.

If a fox is sighted then it is chased until exhaustion at which point the dogs catch it and rip it to shreds. Then the return to the pub for more drinks.

If it happens that there is a youth on his first hunt and they kill a fox then they cut its tail off and smear the bloody end round the boys face to "blood" him.

Lovely people eh wot!

That's not hunting! :-5

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Sheryl;754930 wrote: That's not hunting! :-5

Well they banned it about five years ago but now they go out to "exercise the dogs" and if they just happen to flush a fox and are, sadly, unable to call the dogs off in time then they're ever so sorry.

It does make you wonder which are the animals.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:27 pm

I have always been anti-hunting with dogs, since in my teens. When i got married we lived in a cottage in the country, right in the heart of the hunting area of the midlands. There were three 'hunts' who used our immediate area at different times during the hunting season - The Quorn, The South Notts, and The Belvoir Hunt. Prince Charles often 'rode to hounds' with The Belvoir and The Quorn. We would often see the 'hunts' trotting down our village street, the hounds milling about all over the place and the 'whipper in' trying to keep them gathered in a pack. using his hunting horn.

As luck would have it, I acquired one such hunting horn - a small brass horn, easily kept in a pocket - from a 'junk' shop. One Saturday, when the sun was shining and it was quite cool, we heard the 'hunt' coming along through the village, so I put this small hunting horn to my lips and blew a similar call to the one I had heard so many times before (I had spent quite a lot of time practicing this call). My hubby and I hid round the corner of our cottage and watched the fun. We heard the huntsman blow his horn, so I blew mine again LOL. The hounds were all over the place ! They got tangled up amongst the horses, they ran into peoples gardens, they ran to and fro, not knowing what to do. Now usually the hounds precede the riders, but on this day the riders were long gone down the village street and the 'whipper in' was desperately trying to round up all the hounds and get them to catch up. Well it delayed the 'hunt' about 20 minutes anyway ! LOL

I suppose you could have called me one of the early hunt saboteurs !

Well I hated seeing these 'county set' snooty people prancing about in their supercilious way, all with funny smells under their noses, out to have 'sociable fun'

chasing a fox, just for their gratification.

Who was it said - 'the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'. So true.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:35 pm

Sheryl;754930 wrote: That's not hunting! :-5
Hope you see now Sheryl why I got on my high horse over this.....Bryn put exactly what goes on and good on him for doing that.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:00 pm

Bryn Mawr;754937 wrote: Well they banned it about five years ago but now they go out to "exercise the dogs" and if they just happen to flush a fox and are, sadly, unable to call the dogs off in time then they're ever so sorry.

It does make you wonder which are the animals.
Well it aint the four legged ones thats for sure Bryn.:rolleyes:

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:23 pm

When people behave in a brutal manner towards each and it is reported in the press that they 'behaved like animals', that annoys me, because I feel that that is an insult to animals. It would be better to call them 'savages'. Because I do not believe that animals behave like some of these 'humans' do.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:56 pm

G#Gill;754946 wrote: I have always been anti-hunting with dogs, since in my teens. When i got married we lived in a cottage in the country, right in the heart of the hunting area of the midlands. There were three 'hunts' who used our immediate area at different times during the hunting season - The Quorn, The South Notts, and The Belvoir Hunt. Prince Charles often 'rode to hounds' with The Belvoir and The Quorn. We would often see the 'hunts' trotting down our village street, the hounds milling about all over the place and the 'whipper in' trying to keep them gathered in a pack. using his hunting horn.

As luck would have it, I acquired one such hunting horn - a small brass horn, easily kept in a pocket - from a 'junk' shop. One Saturday, when the sun was shining and it was quite cool, we heard the 'hunt' coming along through the village, so I put this small hunting horn to my lips and blew a similar call to the one I had heard so many times before (I had spent quite a lot of time practicing this call). My hubby and I hid round the corner of our cottage and watched the fun. We heard the huntsman blow his horn, so I blew mine again LOL. The hounds were all over the place ! They got tangled up amongst the horses, they ran into peoples gardens, they ran to and fro, not knowing what to do. Now usually the hounds precede the riders, but on this day the riders were long gone down the village street and the 'whipper in' was desperately trying to round up all the hounds and get them to catch up. Well it delayed the 'hunt' about 20 minutes anyway ! LOL

I suppose you could have called me one of the early hunt saboteurs !

Well I hated seeing these 'county set' snooty people prancing about in their supercilious way, all with funny smells under their noses, out to have 'sociable fun'

chasing a fox, just for their gratification.

Who was it said - 'the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'. So true.Thanks for that story Gillxxxx

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:06 am

Carolly, a very good thread.

I think the number one factor in abuse of these animals is the superiority humans feel over them. when you think you are better than something/one else, you can't relate on an equal level. Jimbo said it better than I can.

We just keep encroaching on them because we can and because we think we have the right of way. We're totally messing up the ecosystem and we don't care.

Also I wanted to say Carol, I am sorry to hear about your losing one of your dogs this week. I read that in the other thread and wanted to let you know there are many here who can empathize.

Gill, that's a great story you told us! I can just imagine you out there confusing all the hunting dogs. Way to go!! :wah:

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:30 am

RedGlitter;755123 wrote: Carolly, a very good thread.

I think the number one factor in abuse of these animals is the superiority humans feel over them. when you think you are better than something/one else, you can't relate on an equal level. Jimbo said it better than I can.

We just keep encroaching on them because we can and because we think we have the right of way. We're totally messing up the ecosystem and we don't care.

Also I wanted to say Carol, I am sorry to hear about your losing one of your dogs this week. I read that in the other thread and wanted to let you know there are many here who can empathize.

Gill, that's a great story you told us! I can just imagine you out there confusing all the hunting dogs. Way to go!! :wah:
Thankyou so much Red for those nice comments and I appreciate you saying about my little Ziggy.I also agree with your wise words.Red let me tell you a little story.Some years ago i went to an outside Auction. I thought it was a fresh produce Auction but I soon found they had some animals there. I saw the rabbits come up and it broke my heart watching those men buying the sweet innocent creatures because I knew their fate. I knew that I couldn't save all their lives but to hell with it I could save at least one............which I did buying it. Then a dear little goat was for sale.It looked so young and my heart just went out to it.No way would those heartless bastards get that goat and before my husband could say anything(mind you he also is an animal lover but abit more sensible than me lol)I had bought that goat.Taking the two home in my car wasn't easy lol. The sad part was we could see the goat wasn't right and we took it to the vet.They informed us that the goat was dying as it hadn't been fed right.We were gutted.The goat began to follow my husband about in the garden and we thought..............well maybe..............but no.....the dear little thing was dead in 3 days and we buried him.Some people are just plain heartless regarding animals and seem to think they are all here just to suffer by their hands.One day they may learn that God put some of these lovely creatures here so we can learn compassion and see that love comes in all forms.The world seems to have gone crazy hurting so many of them and lived better, safer lives years ago..........

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:28 am

Carolly;755126 wrote: Thankyou so much Red for those nice comments and I appreciate you saying about my little Ziggy.I also agree with your wise words.Red let me tell you a little story.Some years ago i went to an outside Auction. I thought it was a fresh produce Auction but I soon found they had some animals there. I saw the rabbits come up and it broke my heart watching those men buying the sweet innocent creatures because I knew their fate. I knew that I couldn't save all their lives but to hell with it I could save at least one............which I did buying it. Then a dear little goat was for sale.It looked so young and my heart just went out to it.No way would those heartless bastards get that goat and before my husband could say anything(mind you he also is an animal lover but abit more sensible than me lol)I had bought that goat.Taking the two home in my car wasn't easy lol. The sad part was we could see the goat wasn't right and we took it to the vet.They informed us that the goat was dying as it hadn't been fed right.We were gutted.The goat began to follow my husband about in the garden and we thought..............well maybe..............but no.....the dear little thing was dead in 3 days and we buried him.Some people are just plain heartless regarding animals and seem to think they are all here just to suffer by their hands.One day they may learn that God put some of these lovely creatures here so we can learn compassion and see that love comes in all forms.The world seems to have gone crazy hurting so many of them and lived better, safer lives years ago..........

Wow!! That's sharp, Carolly! I really admire that you did that. :-6That poor goat. But you know what...at least he had three wonderful days where he knew love and compassion. He died with a place to call home. Did you have the rabbit for a long time? I absolutely love this story!!

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:18 pm

RedGlitter;755164 wrote: Wow!! That's sharp, Carolly! I really admire that you did that. :-6That poor goat. But you know what...at least he had three wonderful days where he knew love and compassion. He died with a place to call home. Did you have the rabbit for a long time? I absolutely love this story!! :)Thanks again Red for your comments......knew when I heard yer voice we would get on lol. Well the rabbit story has a sad ending Im afraid. The poor wee soul got

myxomatosis ..........say no more....it was horrible.....Tell yer girl if I had my way Id

have so many animals.Lol I can remember as a child of about 9 I lived opposite The London Hospital in The East End.My next door neighbour had a dog called Sandy and they used to leave it out during the day.One day it was raining so hard ......I thought ....that poor dog.So I went outside and got the dog and went and sat with it in the outpatients dept(they would throw me out now!!!)until it stopped raining. I couldnt take him in my house as my own dog would have gone mad!!!!Also I remember going into a pet shop for some fish food and coming out with a chicken:wah:...I thought.....oh ffs Im gonna get killed!!!!I thought I know I will put an egg under it in the morning and everyone will think what a clever girl I am. Well after being half killed when I brought a bleedin chicken home all was ok lol......UNTIL......the next morning at 4am everyone heard............COCKADOODLEDO!!!!!It was a male ffs.and they dont lay eggs do they:-5 ..:rolleyes:ohhhhh memories lol;)

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:34 pm

And it is not just the toffs who hunt foxes.We have working class folk who go badger baiting,they send a Jack Russel down the hole after them.Often the dogs are badly bitten by the badgers. Also illegal dog fighting goes on.On TV tonight it showed a youth who was prosocuted because he threw a cat off a 30 foot buiding

laughing while his mate filmed it on his phone.All sorts of very cruel things are done to defenseless animals,I think the penalties should be much harsher.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:43 pm

Carolly;755505 wrote: Thanks again Red for your comments......knew when I heard yer voice we would get on lol. Well the rabbit story has a sad ending Im afraid. The poor wee soul got

myxomatosis ..........say no more....it was horrible.....Tell yer girl if I had my way Id

have so many animals.Lol I can remember as a child of about 9 I lived opposite The London Hospital in The East End.My next door neighbour had a dog called Sandy and they used to leave it out during the day.One day it was raining so hard ......I thought ....that poor dog.So I went outside and got the dog and went and sat with it in the outpatients dept(they would throw me out now!!!)until it stopped raining. I couldnt take him in my house as my own dog would have gone mad!!!!Also I remember going into a pet shop for some fish food and coming out with a chicken:wah:...I thought.....oh ffs Im gonna get killed!!!!I thought I know I will put an egg under it in the morning and everyone will think what a clever girl I am. Well after being half killed when I brought a bleedin chicken home all was ok lol......UNTIL......the next morning at 4am everyone heard............COCKADOODLEDO!!!!!It was a male ffs.and they dont lay eggs do they:-5 ..:rolleyes:ohhhhh memories lol;)

:wah: !!! A rooster!! Well I think you're cool and I love how you love animals!! That's a funny story; it made me laugh out loud.

Mia;755517 wrote: And it is not just the toffs who hunt foxes.We have working class folk who go badger baiting,they send a Jack Russel down the hole after them.Often the dogs are badly bitten by the badgers. Also illegal dog fighting goes on.On TV tonight it showed a youth who was prosocuted because he threw a cat off a 30 foot buiding

laughing while his mate filmed it on his phone.All sorts of very cruel things are done to defenseless animals,I think the penalties should be much harsher.

Thats' terrible Mia. I've never heard of badger baiting but I know they can be mean, no doubt especially with a dog's face stuck down its den! And as for the jerk with the cat, why do we have to suffer these wackjobs??! how long until people stop saying "oh well it's only an animal??"

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:59 pm

Mia;755517 wrote: And it is not just the toffs who hunt foxes.We have working class folk who go badger baiting,they send a Jack Russel down the hole after them.Often the dogs are badly bitten by the badgers. Also illegal dog fighting goes on.On TV tonight it showed a youth who was prosocuted because he threw a cat off a 30 foot buiding

laughing while his mate filmed it on his phone.All sorts of very cruel things are done to defenseless animals,I think the penalties should be much harsher.
Good comments Mia......thankyou for that......all those subjects are so bloody cruel that I cant believe people can be so bloody heartless but of course they are.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:21 am

I apologise in advance for the following 'epic'. I started writing what should have been a fairly brief account of an experience of mine, that I had when I was very young. Once I started to write it, it just grew and grew !

The story of my career as a groom !

When I was about 19 I answered a job advert in the local paper, for a groom. I love horses, and I was fairly competent at all aspects of horse management, so I applied. It was a live-in position, because of very early rising. At the interview, I felt very relaxed in Mrs. A's company, and her demeanour was such that I thought to myself 'I can get along with this woman'. I was shown all the relevant items, and my room, the stables, the two horses (both hunters), the tack room etc, etc. I liked the thought of working here, so I accepted when Mrs A offered me the job. I started immediately! As it was a Friday, I had to prepare everything ready for the hunt the following morning. She was only taking the one horse, Ginger, a beautiful chestnut gelding about 16 hands high. Normally two horses are taken so they can 'swap' horses in the middle of the day and have a fresh horse for the afternoon's run, so that the animals are not over-stretched. The second horse was injured and so could not be taken - Nimrod, a beautiful dark chestnut mare. She had successfully competed, for a previous owner, in two Grand Nationals - so she had been good enough to have got round (although unplaced), that terribly arduous course on two separate occassions! When I became the groom she was about 10 years old. The injury she sustained while she was being excercised in a field by Mrs.A. Something (?!?) spooked Nimrod and she just bolted across the field, Mrs.A instead of turning the animal in a circle and easing it down gradually, thought she would stop the horse more effectively by turning it towards the closed gate of the field, where she expected Nimrod to just stop. She should have known better ! This was an ex Grand National runner for goodness sake! Nimrod, with Mrs.A pulling madly on the reins, tried to jump the five bar gate, but because of the restriction caused by the very tight reins, the poor horse couldn't get enough push to clear the gate, landed across the top bar, throwing the stupid woman into the hedge. Mrs. A's husband was a vet, so Nimrod was gradually being nursed back to health, being kept permanently for the time being, in the stable. The Monday after I started, I was asked to wash the walls of Nimrod's stable (while the horse was still in there), and everytime I had to bend to scrub the lower part of the walls, Nimrod would lick my rear end ! Oh she was such a character !

On the Saturday, I was up early to ready Ginger for the hunt. Mrs.A joined me and prepared the landrover and horsebox ready to load Ginger into it. It was then that I was told that Ginger hated being put into the horse box, at which I asked if she blindfolded Ginger first. 'Oh God no, I don't bother with that messing about, we just use a rope behind his rump and pull !' So that is what we did ! After a lot of struggling, cajoling, pushing and pulling, we managed to put him in the horsebox. She said 'I always have to have two of us to do this, otherwise we'd never be able to get him in!' It was a good job I was fairly strong ! So off she went, on her own to join the hunt.

It had rained on and off all the day, so when they returned at about 4 pm I saw that the horse was absolutely caked in mud.. It was going to be a long evening.

Mrs A saw me preparing buckets and told me there was no need for that, she had an idea – something one of the huntsmen had suggested for getting the worst of the mud off the horse. She connected a fairly long hose to the outside cold water tap, turned the water on and told me to hold the horse’s bridle very tight, and to my horror she aimed the jetting water at Ginger’s hoofs. The sudden impact of very cold water on his legs made him rear up and I was thrown to the ground, fortunately I still had hold of his halter and was just able to keep him from bolting across the yard. We managed to settle him down and I queried the method of cleaning that she was using as he was obviously not happy about it, and I had always been instructed never to put cold water on a hot horse. She shouted that I should not interfere and just hold the horse properly as she had instructed “This wouldn’t have happened if you’d done as I’d told you in the first place !. I was beginning to dislike this woman, and her selfish, bad tempered attitude.

Well Mrs. A managed to hose quite a lot of the mud off the horse. She told me to get some straw and wrap all his legs in the straw and wind wide bandages round the straw to hold it in place. I put the horse into his loose box and proceeded to brush his body to remove as much of the mud from there as possible. After about a couple of hours, she came out of the house and told me to leave the rest till morning, and to go and get my meal. “What mud is left will be dry by morning and you will be able to brush all the rest off then It was gone 8 pm by then and I’d been working since 6 am, so I was glad of the meal as I was starving. Needless to say, I went to bed at about 9.30 pm.

The next day I worked very hard to get the rest of the mud off Ginger. But I found that the high pressure action of the hose had effectively driven the mud right through the horse's fur to his skin. When I pointed this out to Mrs A she told me to leave it as it would be alright and refused to take any notice of my protest that the horse could get mud fever if it was left – she had other things that she needed me to do instead.

I was still concerned about Ginger’s forelegs, where the legs joined the body, where it chafed every time he moved, so I kept having a go to tease out the bits of mud. I did notice that there were one or two sore spots appearing, so when I saw Mrs. A’s husband (the vet) a little while later, I mentioned it to him and he came to have a look, yes it was the onset of mud fever, and he gave me some ointment to rub in at the joints of both front legs. Fortunately I had been able to remove all the mud.

The following day, the sores seemed a little better, and I kept putting on this ointment. It was Monday and Mrs.A had me chasing round doing all sorts of things – sweeping the yard, putting a coat of paint on the stable door of one of the vacant loose boxes, cleaning tack. I was even asked to clear away lunch dishes and wash them up ! (I thought I was the groom, not the domestic help !).

Tuesday came, and I was doing much the same things. Mrs. A told me that she was going to take Ginger for a ride on the Wednesday, to make sure he was OK for the hunt on Saturday. Although I did say to her that the sores had not healed properly yet and I thought Ginger should not be ridden for a few more days, she waved me away and said that she expected Ginger to be saddled ready for her to ride by 9 am. Her husband happened to be passing at that point and heard what she said and advised her to leave Ginger for a couple more days – a right old argument ensued as they were walking across the yard to the house, voices being raised higher and louder. I think Mrs. A got her way.

Ginger was ready for the ride at 9 am, and off they went. I carried on with my various jobs.

When they returned just before lunch, I was horrified to see blood running down Ginger’s front legs ! The horse was very hot and steaming. I queried this and Mrs A said “Oh it is none of your business, and I’ll thank you not to be insolent, you work for me “

I stabled Ginger, took his saddle and bridle off and threw his rug over him. He was huffing and puffing really hard, and I just knew she had galloped him in the fields, and really pushed him. I fetched her husband to look at the bloody sores. I could see from his face that he was disgusted and he muttered that he had told her no strenuous riding. He said he’d fetch some stuff to put on after he’d cleaned the wounds. I was beginning to loathe this woman, and felt sorry for her husband. I could hear raised voices coming from the house as I attended to the horse.

I didn’t see much of her on Thursday, so the day passed peacefully. I kept checking poor Ginger’s sores and Mr A came to look at how they were progressing. I told him that Mrs.A had blamed me for causing the mud fever sores, and he said that was nonsense, it was her selfish, thoughtless actions that had caused the injuries and that he had not wanted her to go out on the horse till they were properly healed, “But then that is her all over, has to keep in with the hunt at all costs ! He walked back across the yard to the house and I went to get a cup of tea. Mr. A had told me she would probably want to go hunting on Saturday whatever the state of the injuries, but he would try to persuade her to let the horse recover properly, otherwise he may go lame.

That night before I went to bed I busied myself packing all my possessions in my bags – I just knew what was going to happen on the Friday.

Next morning I was up and about by 6 am busying myself in the stables and checking Gingers sores. They were a little better but he would not be fit to hunt the next day, nor for at least another week. At about lunchtime Mrs. A came across to the stable and looked at Ginger,

“Oh they’re looking much better ! she ran her hand down his legs “I shall be hunting him tomorrow so he will be ready to load into the horsebox by 8 . 30 “ I must have looked surprised because she added “ The horse will be perfectly alright , I shall only do half a day instead of a full day. So I said “ But Ginger is not fit to hunt yet Mrs. A, you could make it far worse and may even cause him to go lame ! She glared at me and raised her voice “ You will not speak to me like that ! How insolent ! Who the hell do you think you are ? “ and I said “ You employed me to look after your horses Mrs.A, and that is what I am trying to do “ She shouted “How dare you speak to me like that – you will get this horse ready for hunting tomorrow, and that’s an end to it !

I stood firm and said “ Mrs. A if you insist on hunting this injured horse tomorrow, you will have to load him into the horsebox on your own, because I will not be here to help you, I shall leave ! She glared at me even harder “ Well if that’s your attitude then clear off you bloody insolent girl !

She was so furious I thought she would explode.

I went back into the house and noticed Mr.A in the kitchen as I walked through. I explained to him what had happened and that I just could not work for somebody so uncaring about the welfare of her horses, and I could not bring myself to help her box Ginger in the morning for hunting. He surprised me by saying that his wife had always been selfish and that he understood perfectly how I felt, he shook my hand and smiled at me “You lasted longer than I thought you would !

It was about six months later that I heard he had thrown her out and she had gone to live in Ireland. They were divorced not very long after that.

As for the hunt that Saturday, I heard that she did not go and that it was another two weeks before she actually rode to hounds on Ginger. At least, I suppose, I saved the horse from unnecessary suffering for a while.

So you see that I have no time for most of the so-called ‘county set’, as they seem to only want to do these cruel things just to ‘keep in’ with aristocracy – totally selfish, arrogant and ignorant.

This true story may only demonstrate a fairly ‘mild’ cruelty, but this sort of attitude seems to be commonplace amongst the hunting fraternity, certainly amongst the people who are members of a hunt because they want to be seen with the ‘right people’ at all costs. These are the ‘snobs’ of our society. These are the people who seem to consider that all animals are expendable, and the lowest form of existence, to be tossed away when they are of no further use (in their eyes) to ‘humans’.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:35 am

G#Gill;756210 wrote: I apologise in advance for the following 'epic'. I started writing what should have been a fairly brief account of an experience of mine, that I had when I was very young. Once I started to write it, it just grew and grew !

The story of my career as a groom !

When I was about 19 I answered a job advert in the local paper, for a groom. I love horses, and I was fairly competent at all aspects of horse management, so I applied. It was a live-in position, because of very early rising. At the interview, I felt very relaxed in Mrs. A's company, and her demeanour was such that I thought to myself 'I can get along with this woman'. I was shown all the relevant items, and my room, the stables, the two horses (both hunters), the tack room etc, etc. I liked the thought of working here, so I accepted when Mrs A offered me the job. I started immediately! As it was a Friday, I had to prepare everything ready for the hunt the following morning. She was only taking the one horse, Ginger, a beautiful chestnut gelding about 16 hands high. Normally two horses are taken so they can 'swap' horses in the middle of the day and have a fresh horse for the afternoon's run, so that the animals are not over-stretched. The second horse was injured and so could not be taken - Nimrod, a beautiful dark chestnut mare. She had successfully competed, for a previous owner, in two Grand Nationals - so she had been good enough to have got round (although unplaced), that terribly arduous course on two separate occassions! When I became the groom she was about 10 years old. The injury she sustained while she was being excercised in a field by Mrs.A. Something (?!?) spooked Nimrod and she just bolted across the field, Mrs.A instead of turning the animal in a circle and easing it down gradually, thought she would stop the horse more effectively by turning it towards the closed gate of the field, where she expected Nimrod to just stop. She should have known better ! This was an ex Grand National runner for goodness sake! Nimrod, with Mrs.A pulling madly on the reins, tried to jump the five bar gate, but because of the restriction caused by the very tight reins, the poor horse couldn't get enough push to clear the gate, landed across the top bar, throwing the stupid woman into the hedge. Mrs. A's husband was a vet, so Nimrod was gradually being nursed back to health, being kept permanently for the time being, in the stable. The Monday after I started, I was asked to wash the walls of Nimrod's stable (while the horse was still in there), and everytime I had to bend to scrub the lower part of the walls, Nimrod would lick my rear end ! Oh she was such a character !

On the Saturday, I was up early to ready Ginger for the hunt. Mrs.A joined me and prepared the landrover and horsebox ready to load Ginger into it. It was then that I was told that Ginger hated being put into the horse box, at which I asked if she blindfolded Ginger first. 'Oh God no, I don't bother with that messing about, we just use a rope behind his rump and pull !' So that is what we did ! After a lot of struggling, cajoling, pushing and pulling, we managed to put him in the horsebox. She said 'I always have to have two of us to do this, otherwise we'd never be able to get him in!' It was a good job I was fairly strong ! So off she went, on her own to join the hunt.

It had rained on and off all the day, so when they returned at about 4 pm I saw that the horse was absolutely caked in mud.. It was going to be a long evening.

Mrs A saw me preparing buckets and told me there was no need for that, she had an idea – something one of the huntsmen had suggested for getting the worst of the mud off the horse. She connected a fairly long hose to the outside cold water tap, turned the water on and told me to hold the horse’s bridle very tight, and to my horror she aimed the jetting water at Ginger’s hoofs. The sudden impact of very cold water on his legs made him rear up and I was thrown to the ground, fortunately I still had hold of his halter and was just able to keep him from bolting across the yard. We managed to settle him down and I queried the method of cleaning that she was using as he was obviously not happy about it, and I had always been instructed never to put cold water on a hot horse. She shouted that I should not interfere and just hold the horse properly as she had instructed “This wouldn’t have happened if you’d done as I’d told you in the first place !. I was beginning to dislike this woman, and her selfish, bad tempered attitude.

Well Mrs. A managed to hose quite a lot of the mud off the horse. She told me to get some straw and wrap all his legs in the straw and wind wide bandages round the straw to hold it in place. I put the horse into his loose box and proceeded to brush his body to remove as much of the mud from there as possible. After about a couple of hours, she came out of the house and told me to leave the rest till morning, and to go and get my meal. “What mud is left will be dry by morning and you will be able to brush all the rest off then It was gone 8 pm by then and I’d been working since 6 am, so I was glad of the meal as I was starving. Needless to say, I went to bed at about 9.30 pm.

The next day I worked very hard to get the rest of the mud off Ginger. But I found that the high pressure action of the hose had effectively driven the mud right through the horse's fur to his skin. When I pointed this out to Mrs A she told me to leave it as it would be alright and refused to take any notice of my protest that the horse could get mud fever if it was left – she had other things that she needed me to do instead.

I was still concerned about Ginger’s forelegs, where the legs joined the body, where it chafed every time he moved, so I kept having a go to tease out the bits of mud. I did notice that there were one or two sore spots appearing, so when I saw Mrs. A’s husband (the vet) a little while later, I mentioned it to him and he came to have a look, yes it was the onset of mud fever, and he gave me some ointment to rub in at the joints of both front legs. Fortunately I had been able to remove all the mud.

The following day, the sores seemed a little better, and I kept putting on this ointment. It was Monday and Mrs.A had me chasing round doing all sorts of things – sweeping the yard, putting a coat of paint on the stable door of one of the vacant loose boxes, cleaning tack. I was even asked to clear away lunch dishes and wash them up ! (I thought I was the groom, not the domestic help !).

Tuesday came, and I was doing much the same things. Mrs. A told me that she was going to take Ginger for a ride on the Wednesday, to make sure he was OK for the hunt on Saturday. Although I did say to her that the sores had not healed properly yet and I thought Ginger should not be ridden for a few more days, she waved me away and said that she expected Ginger to be saddled ready for her to ride by 9 am. Her husband happened to be passing at that point and heard what she said and advised her to leave Ginger for a couple more days – a right old argument ensued as they were walking across the yard to the house, voices being raised higher and louder. I think Mrs. A got her way.

Ginger was ready for the ride at 9 am, and off they went. I carried on with my various jobs.

When they returned just before lunch, I was horrified to see blood running down Ginger’s front legs ! The horse was very hot and steaming. I queried this and Mrs A said “Oh it is none of your business, and I’ll thank you not to be insolent, you work for me “

I stabled Ginger, took his saddle and bridle off and threw his rug over him. He was huffing and puffing really hard, and I just knew she had galloped him in the fields, and really pushed him. I fetched her husband to look at the bloody sores. I could see from his face that he was disgusted and he muttered that he had told her no strenuous riding. He said he’d fetch some stuff to put on after he’d cleaned the wounds. I was beginning to loathe this woman, and felt sorry for her husband. I could hear raised voices coming from the house as I attended to the horse.

I didn’t see much of her on Thursday, so the day passed peacefully. I kept checking poor Ginger’s sores and Mr A came to look at how they were progressing. I told him that Mrs.A had blamed me for causing the mud fever sores, and he said that was nonsense, it was her selfish, thoughtless actions that had caused the injuries and that he had not wanted her to go out on the horse till they were properly healed, “But then that is her all over, has to keep in with the hunt at all costs ! He walked back across the yard to the house and I went to get a cup of tea. Mr. A had told me she would probably want to go hunting on Saturday whatever the state of the injuries, but he would try to persuade her to let the horse recover properly, otherwise he may go lame.

That night before I went to bed I busied myself packing all my possessions in my bags – I just knew what was going to happen on the Friday.

Next morning I was up and about by 6 am busying myself in the stables and checking Gingers sores. They were a little better but he would not be fit to hunt the next day, nor for at least another week. At about lunchtime Mrs. A came across to the stable and looked at Ginger,

“Oh they’re looking much better ! she ran her hand down his legs “I shall be hunting him tomorrow so he will be ready to load into the horsebox by 8 . 30 “ I must have looked surprised because she added “ The horse will be perfectly alright , I shall only do half a day instead of a full day. So I said “ But Ginger is not fit to hunt yet Mrs. A, you could make it far worse and may even cause him to go lame ! She glared at me and raised her voice “ You will not speak to me like that ! How insolent ! Who the hell do you think you are ? “ and I said “ You employed me to look after your horses Mrs.A, and that is what I am trying to do “ She shouted “How dare you speak to me like that – you will get this horse ready for hunting tomorrow, and that’s an end to it !

I stood firm and said “ Mrs. A if you insist on hunting this injured horse tomorrow, you will have to load him into the horsebox on your own, because I will not be here to help you, I shall leave ! She glared at me even harder “ Well if that’s your attitude then clear off you bloody insolent girl !

She was so furious I thought she would explode.

I went back into the house and noticed Mr.A in the kitchen as I walked through. I explained to him what had happened and that I just could not work for somebody so uncaring about the welfare of her horses, and I could not bring myself to help her box Ginger in the morning for hunting. He surprised me by saying that his wife had always been selfish and that he understood perfectly how I felt, he shook my hand and smiled at me “You lasted longer than I thought you would !

It was about six months later that I heard he had thrown her out and she had gone to live in Ireland. They were divorced not very long after that.

As for the hunt that Saturday, I heard that she did not go and that it was another two weeks before she actually rode to hounds on Ginger. At least, I suppose, I saved the horse from unnecessary suffering for a while.

So you see that I have no time for most of the so-called ‘county set’, as they seem to only want to do these cruel things just to ‘keep in’ with aristocracy – totally selfish, arrogant and ignorant.

This true story may only demonstrate a fairly ‘mild’ cruelty, but this sort of attitude seems to be commonplace amongst the hunting fraternity, certainly amongst the people who are members of a hunt because they want to be seen with the ‘right people’ at all costs. These are the ‘snobs’ of our society. These are the people who seem to consider that all animals are expendable, and the lowest form of existence, to be tossed away when they are of no further use (in their eyes) to ‘humans’.

Gill fanks mate for sharing that and also for the time you took to type it;):)xxx

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:34 pm

Sorry Jim and Carol, I started it a couple of days ago, nearly finished it on Wednesday then wrote the last paragraph Thursday. Had to fit it in between doing stuff in the house! I don't think I'll be writing anything as long again

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:38 pm

It's good to see how our doings affect the lives of "lesser" beings when we by the grace of God are supposedly not. Some people don't bother. Good on you, Jimbo.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:54 pm

Gill, I enjoyed very much your story, upsetting as it was. You did right by Ginger and by your own integrity. What a nasty, wretched woman that lady must have been. Glad her husband tossed her out, maybe the horse got a reprieve after that. Is that the real Ginger in the photo? I assumed it was.

mrsK · Post by **mrsK** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:45 pm

Gill,

That is one of the saddest things.

That poor horse:-1,thank goodness you where there for the horse,& did as much as you could to protect it.

That stupid,cruel poor excuse for a human :-6

kinks · Post by **kinks** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:04 am

I am very much an animal lover, when i hear about the horrible things that have happened to animals, it breaks my heart and makes me feel sick.

I think i get my love for animals from my dad, he would have never even hurt a fly..... a few months ago was told something my dad did, before i was even born.

My dad had gone to the pub for a *meat draw* and he won a spider crab, so he took it home, but he wouldn't kill it and eat it, so he went down to the ocean and let it go.....:-4

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:47 am

awww Gill. thats so sad mate....Ginger was blessed to have you working there, looking out for him or he could of had a much worse quality of life. Thanks for sharing, even though it was hard to read, and not a jilly cooper type novel that Im used to lol...

Animal cruelty is needless and it makes me feel sick to the pit of my stomach to even think and read of these vile acts, never mind to have to witness them. I have only witnessed one which was a bloke who wanted his dog to sit and it was pulling on its lead so he thumped it on the head...I felt bile rising in the back of my throat as I flew out of my mates car and walked over to him. I said do you thump him often?, he said no, I said if I ever see you out and mistreating that dog again ill be calling the RSPCA, you cant go thumping a dog over the head like that. I was trembling as I walked away, if people will do that in broad daylight, i dread to think of how they treat them behind closed doors.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:51 am

Its good to see such support and love for animals.Also do you find that people who dont like them you just dont seem to "click " with without you even knowing their feelings over them.Animal abuse in any form is wrong its that simple and you can argue and row over this subject but the hard truth is things will not change and some people will still get there kicks hurting innocent creatures.........big people ah........

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:56 am

Thanks all who read my story. As I was writing it, the whole scenario came back to me as if it happened yesterday! Things I thought I'd forgotten, came flooding back.

I was a groom for one week, and I felt dreadful leaving like that, leaving that poor horse to it's unsure destiny at the hands of that dreadful woman. I just couldn't face her cruelty any more, her selfish attitude, so I took the coward's way out and went away so I could not see any more ill treatment. I often thought afterwards, that I could have stayed and just refused to help her load her lovely horse, but then thinking about it again I realised that I would have got the sack anyway.

I never worked for such people again.

Red, the picture is not Ginger, but I found it on photobucket and thought how like Ginger he looked. Such a gorgeous animal.

Had things been a bit different, I would have made efforts to get Ginger to be not so freaked out at getting into horseboxes. I was aware, at the time, of ways of doing this, with plenty of TLC and patience.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:00 am

G#Gill;756696 wrote: Thanks all who read my story. As I was writing it, the whole scenario came back to me as if it happened yesterday! Things I thought I'd forgotten, came flooding back.

I was a groom for one week, and I felt dreadful leaving like that, leaving that poor horse to it's unsure destiny at the hands of that dreadful woman. I just couldn't face her cruelty any more, her selfish attitude, so I took the coward's way out and went away so I could not see any more ill treatment. I often thought afterwards, that I could have stayed and just refused to help her load her lovely horse, but then thinking about it again I realised that I would have got the sack anyway.

I never worked for such people again.

Red, the picture is not Ginger, but I found it on photobucket and thought how like Ginger he looked. Such a gorgeous animal.

Had things been a bit different, I would have made efforts to get Ginger to be not so freaked out at getting into horseboxes. I was aware, at the time, of ways of doing this, with plenty of TLC and patience.Gill we all have regrets about things in our lives that happened where we think we should have done more and I guess thats part of our learning process.

kinks · Post by **kinks** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:17 am

G#Gill;756696 wrote: Thanks all who read my story. As I was writing it, the whole scenario came back to me as if it happened yesterday! Things I thought I'd forgotten, came flooding back.

I was a groom for one week, and I felt dreadful leaving like that, leaving that poor horse to it's unsure destiny at the hands of that dreadful woman. I just couldn't face her cruelty any more, her selfish attitude, so I took the coward's way out and went away so I could not see any more ill treatment. I often thought afterwards, that I could have stayed and just refused to help her load her lovely horse, but then thinking about it again I realised that I would have got the sack anyway.

I never worked for such people again.

Red, the picture is not Ginger, but I found it on photobucket and thought how like Ginger he looked. Such a gorgeous animal.

Had things been a bit different, I would have made efforts to get Ginger to be not so freaked out at getting into horseboxes. I was aware, at the time, of ways of doing this, with plenty of TLC and patience.

Hi hun, i haven't read your story yet....i'm waiting till tonight, when the kids are in bed, so i've not got them running round screaming