As an American, I'm curious to hear what our European Union friends have to say about this.
Will this Constitution work? Are people pretty happy that this has come about?
Who actually has control? Veto power via simple majority?
Any naysayers out there concerned about loss of nationalism, jurisdiction, and autonomy?
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ROME (AP) - European leaders on Friday signed the EU's first constitution, a diplomatic triumph they hope will give the union a sharper international profile and speed up decision-making in a club now embracing 25 nations.
The treaty was the result of 28 months of sometimes acrimonious debate between the 25 EU governments and now faces ratification in national parliaments. At least nine EU nations also plan to put it to a referendum, increasing chances that it may not take effect in 2007 as scheduled.
A "no" result in any country would stop the constitution in its tracks.
The EU leaders signed the document at the Campidoglio, a Michaelangelo-designed complex of buildings on Rome's Capitoline Hill, along with the leaders of Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey and Croatia - four candidates for EU membership.
French President Jacques Chirac told reporters the constitution deepens "the roots of peace and democracy on our continent. For centuries and centuries we have fought each other and we have paid heavily with tears, blood, and waste."
The event was overshadowed by a dispute over the makeup of the next EU executive - particularly over a conservative Italian nominee, Rocco Buttiglione, who is opposed by a large segment of the 732-member European Parliament.
On the margins of the signing, the leaders sought to resolve the dispute over Buttiglione, who was nominated as justice commissioner. The conservative Catholic and papal confidant raised concerns by saying he believed homosexuality is a sin and that women are better off married and at home.
The constitution foresees simpler voting rules to end decision gridlock in a club that ballooned to 25 members this year and plans to absorb half a dozen more in the years ahead.
It includes new powers for the European Parliament and ends national vetoes in 45 new policy areas - including judicial and police cooperation, education and economic policy - but not in foreign and defense policy, social security, taxation or cultural matters.
European Leaders Sign EU Constitution
European Leaders Sign EU Constitution
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European Leaders Sign EU Constitution
Currently we have an unelected commission making the rules and imposing what are in many cases daft rules and regulations on us. European law supercedes UK law, we now have a human rights act which is something the uk has never had for the first time there is a higher court iof appeal that you can go to if you feel you have not had justice in your own country. it has been used with good effect on several occasions.
On the other hand the tories chose not to implement eu employment protection legislation on the grounds that it would discourage inward investment. This means that if a multination had to shut a factory in either france or UK they shut the british one because it's cheaper as the lay off costs are less. there have nbeen acouple of high profile cases where a more efficent Uk plant has been closed in favoiur of a european one for just that reason, but don't point that out to any anti european because they gobble at you. If it's a level playing field we can compete. The arguement that tougher employment laws would discourage investment was a load of bollocks.
We also neeed a strong economic bloc or you are at the mercy of multinational corporations. Microsoft for instance. it's only the eec that would be big enough to stop some of their more reprehensible trade practices, EU nationalism means that the eu commission wants to safeguard european software businesses so competing companies have the means to lobby against software patents etc rather than just roll over to the big multinationals which is what would happen i it was just indivudual countries doing their own thing.
The constitution is intended to put the eu parliament at the heart of the legislature and act as a check on the commission, classic separation between legislator and executive. Most europeans are ambivalent about it. In the UK case 70% of our manufacturing exports are to the EEC, you tend to find businessmen that are hostile are the ones not exporting- or if they do it's not to europe. It would be a bit stupid not to be involved as whether we like it or not european laws will effect us. If we pull out a lot of the current investment from foreign companies would disappear since if uk goods have to pay import tariffs making them on the uk would make them uncompetetive. That lack of tariffs is why you saw a boom in inwartd investment in the seventies after we joined the eec Having one currency would make life a lot easier as well as currently busienesses can lose out on currency shifts. Being a member means we have some input in to what happens, opt out and we are stuffed.
The other issue is electoral reform, mep's are elected by a pr system as opposed to first past the post. there is a move to try and get it extended to westminster but noth of the main parties are agin it as it would mean that neither wou;ld never have a clear majority Bit like your presidents, when was the last time you had one that the majority actually voted for?
The event was overshadowed by a dispute over the makeup of the next EU executive - particularly over a conservative Italian nominee, Rocco Buttiglione, who is opposed by a large segment of the 732-member European Parliament.
On the margins of the signing, the leaders sought to resolve the dispute over Buttiglione, who was nominated as justice commissioner. The conservative Catholic and papal confidant raised concerns by saying he believed homosexuality is a sin and that women are better off married and at home.
That was brilliant and exactly why we need a strong parliament to control the executive, at the moment it is an incredibly corrupt boys club answerable to no one. Take you homophobic mysoginist back to rome yeah
The euro is an issue but why anyone cares is completely beyond me, it's the same with thoise who want to keep imperial measurements, quaint they may be but bloody awful to work with-having said that i still work out fuel consumption if miles per (imperial as opposed to us ) gallon.
In make up europe is a great deal more secular than the US. so the religious right is very much a fringe element, no one wants the church interfering in politics and there are enough protestent countries anyway so that things like abortion begin to came under human rights legislation and the decision is discussed by looking at the science rather than become a political football with any religious group trying to foist it's attitudes on to others facing an uphill struggle.
Scotland has done very well out of the eu enterprise zone system with money being spent on our infrastructue that westminster-despite pinching our oil - would never have done, apart from that most feel they have been ruled by a far away parliament with little control over it anyway with econmomic decisions being taken with no regard to the consequeces away from the south east. So has Eire come to that. We would do very well in an emlarged EU but the anti european lobby play the xenophobia card alll the time then wonder why thge national front make headway.
Rambling post, shouldn't do this when i am tired.
Simple answer, depends who you ask, the anti euro parties have a strong base in england, most scots are pro europe as we see where we trade with. If anything nationalism is making a revival. Most britons have been to the continent just as nmany europeans come here. (Bizarre as it may seem the rain and mist make it exotic) so people are a lot more informed than you might think. Whether we like it or not we can't ignore the eec and it would be better to be involved at the heart than whinging on the fringes.
As you may have gathered I am very much in favour, it's not perfect but it deoends on what we make of it,
On the other hand the tories chose not to implement eu employment protection legislation on the grounds that it would discourage inward investment. This means that if a multination had to shut a factory in either france or UK they shut the british one because it's cheaper as the lay off costs are less. there have nbeen acouple of high profile cases where a more efficent Uk plant has been closed in favoiur of a european one for just that reason, but don't point that out to any anti european because they gobble at you. If it's a level playing field we can compete. The arguement that tougher employment laws would discourage investment was a load of bollocks.
We also neeed a strong economic bloc or you are at the mercy of multinational corporations. Microsoft for instance. it's only the eec that would be big enough to stop some of their more reprehensible trade practices, EU nationalism means that the eu commission wants to safeguard european software businesses so competing companies have the means to lobby against software patents etc rather than just roll over to the big multinationals which is what would happen i it was just indivudual countries doing their own thing.
The constitution is intended to put the eu parliament at the heart of the legislature and act as a check on the commission, classic separation between legislator and executive. Most europeans are ambivalent about it. In the UK case 70% of our manufacturing exports are to the EEC, you tend to find businessmen that are hostile are the ones not exporting- or if they do it's not to europe. It would be a bit stupid not to be involved as whether we like it or not european laws will effect us. If we pull out a lot of the current investment from foreign companies would disappear since if uk goods have to pay import tariffs making them on the uk would make them uncompetetive. That lack of tariffs is why you saw a boom in inwartd investment in the seventies after we joined the eec Having one currency would make life a lot easier as well as currently busienesses can lose out on currency shifts. Being a member means we have some input in to what happens, opt out and we are stuffed.
The other issue is electoral reform, mep's are elected by a pr system as opposed to first past the post. there is a move to try and get it extended to westminster but noth of the main parties are agin it as it would mean that neither wou;ld never have a clear majority Bit like your presidents, when was the last time you had one that the majority actually voted for?
The event was overshadowed by a dispute over the makeup of the next EU executive - particularly over a conservative Italian nominee, Rocco Buttiglione, who is opposed by a large segment of the 732-member European Parliament.
On the margins of the signing, the leaders sought to resolve the dispute over Buttiglione, who was nominated as justice commissioner. The conservative Catholic and papal confidant raised concerns by saying he believed homosexuality is a sin and that women are better off married and at home.
That was brilliant and exactly why we need a strong parliament to control the executive, at the moment it is an incredibly corrupt boys club answerable to no one. Take you homophobic mysoginist back to rome yeah
The euro is an issue but why anyone cares is completely beyond me, it's the same with thoise who want to keep imperial measurements, quaint they may be but bloody awful to work with-having said that i still work out fuel consumption if miles per (imperial as opposed to us ) gallon.
In make up europe is a great deal more secular than the US. so the religious right is very much a fringe element, no one wants the church interfering in politics and there are enough protestent countries anyway so that things like abortion begin to came under human rights legislation and the decision is discussed by looking at the science rather than become a political football with any religious group trying to foist it's attitudes on to others facing an uphill struggle.
Scotland has done very well out of the eu enterprise zone system with money being spent on our infrastructue that westminster-despite pinching our oil - would never have done, apart from that most feel they have been ruled by a far away parliament with little control over it anyway with econmomic decisions being taken with no regard to the consequeces away from the south east. So has Eire come to that. We would do very well in an emlarged EU but the anti european lobby play the xenophobia card alll the time then wonder why thge national front make headway.
Rambling post, shouldn't do this when i am tired.
Simple answer, depends who you ask, the anti euro parties have a strong base in england, most scots are pro europe as we see where we trade with. If anything nationalism is making a revival. Most britons have been to the continent just as nmany europeans come here. (Bizarre as it may seem the rain and mist make it exotic) so people are a lot more informed than you might think. Whether we like it or not we can't ignore the eec and it would be better to be involved at the heart than whinging on the fringes.
As you may have gathered I am very much in favour, it's not perfect but it deoends on what we make of it,
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capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
European Leaders Sign EU Constitution
What a thorough response! Thanks. See notation inline below:
gmc wrote: Currently we have an unelected commission making the rules and imposing what are in many cases daft rules and regulations on us. European law supercedes UK law, we now have a human rights act which is something the uk has never had for the first time there is a higher court iof appeal that you can go to if you feel you have not had justice in your own country. it has been used with good effect on several occasions.
This appears to be a very big benefit.
On the other hand the tories chose not to implement eu employment protection legislation on the grounds that it would discourage inward investment. This means that if a multination had to shut a factory in either france or UK they shut the british one because it's cheaper as the lay off costs are less. there have nbeen acouple of high profile cases where a more efficent Uk plant has been closed in favoiur of a european one for just that reason, but don't point that out to any anti european because they gobble at you. If it's a level playing field we can compete. The arguement that tougher employment laws would discourage investment was a load of bollocks.
Agreed. In this ever increasing "global economy" I'm in favor of a more level playing field. The EU and U.S. however are still going to have to figure out how to compete (or not) with the poverty wage countries.
We also neeed a strong economic bloc or you are at the mercy of multinational corporations. Microsoft for instance. it's only the eec that would be big enough to stop some of their more reprehensible trade practices, EU nationalism means that the eu commission wants to safeguard european software businesses so competing companies have the means to lobby against software patents etc rather than just roll over to the big multinationals which is what would happen i it was just indivudual countries doing their own thing.
Agreed again. You know, some claim that China is viewing the new EU as a more important trading partner than the U.S. By sheer market size, the EU will prove to have some economic meat behind it.
The constitution is intended to put the eu parliament at the heart of the legislature and act as a check on the commission, classic separation between legislator and executive. Most europeans are ambivalent about it. In the UK case 70% of our manufacturing exports are to the EEC, you tend to find businessmen that are hostile are the ones not exporting- or if they do it's not to europe. It would be a bit stupid not to be involved as whether we like it or not european laws will effect us. If we pull out a lot of the current investment from foreign companies would disappear since if uk goods have to pay import tariffs making them on the uk would make them uncompetetive. That lack of tariffs is why you saw a boom in inwartd investment in the seventies after we joined the eec Having one currency would make life a lot easier as well as currently busienesses can lose out on currency shifts. Being a member means we have some input in to what happens, opt out and we are stuffed.
The other issue is electoral reform, mep's are elected by a pr system as opposed to first past the post. there is a move to try and get it extended to westminster but noth of the main parties are agin it as it would mean that neither wou;ld never have a clear majority Bit like your presidents, when was the last time you had one that the majority actually voted for?
Pretty much all of them except I think 4 to 5 since the 1800's.
That was brilliant and exactly why we need a strong parliament to control the executive, at the moment it is an incredibly corrupt boys club answerable to no one. Take you homophobic mysoginist back to rome yeah
The euro is an issue but why anyone cares is completely beyond me, it's the same with thoise who want to keep imperial measurements, quaint they may be but bloody awful to work with-having said that i still work out fuel consumption if miles per (imperial as opposed to us ) gallon.
In make up europe is a great deal more secular than the US. so the religious right is very much a fringe element, no one wants the church interfering in politics and there are enough protestent countries anyway so that things like abortion begin to came under human rights legislation and the decision is discussed by looking at the science rather than become a political football with any religious group trying to foist it's attitudes on to others facing an uphill struggle.
Scotland has done very well out of the eu enterprise zone system with money being spent on our infrastructue that westminster-despite pinching our oil - would never have done, apart from that most feel they have been ruled by a far away parliament with little control over it anyway with econmomic decisions being taken with no regard to the consequeces away from the south east. So has Eire come to that. We would do very well in an emlarged EU but the anti european lobby play the xenophobia card alll the time then wonder why thge national front make headway.
Rambling post, shouldn't do this when i am tired.
Simple answer, depends who you ask, the anti euro parties have a strong base in england, most scots are pro europe as we see where we trade with. If anything nationalism is making a revival. Most britons have been to the continent just as nmany europeans come here. (Bizarre as it may seem the rain and mist make it exotic) so people are a lot more informed than you might think. Whether we like it or not we can't ignore the eec and it would be better to be involved at the heart than whinging on the fringes.
As you may have gathered I am very much in favour, it's not perfect but it deoends on what we make of it,
Excellent analysis and info. I appreciate it!
gmc wrote: Currently we have an unelected commission making the rules and imposing what are in many cases daft rules and regulations on us. European law supercedes UK law, we now have a human rights act which is something the uk has never had for the first time there is a higher court iof appeal that you can go to if you feel you have not had justice in your own country. it has been used with good effect on several occasions.
This appears to be a very big benefit.
On the other hand the tories chose not to implement eu employment protection legislation on the grounds that it would discourage inward investment. This means that if a multination had to shut a factory in either france or UK they shut the british one because it's cheaper as the lay off costs are less. there have nbeen acouple of high profile cases where a more efficent Uk plant has been closed in favoiur of a european one for just that reason, but don't point that out to any anti european because they gobble at you. If it's a level playing field we can compete. The arguement that tougher employment laws would discourage investment was a load of bollocks.
Agreed. In this ever increasing "global economy" I'm in favor of a more level playing field. The EU and U.S. however are still going to have to figure out how to compete (or not) with the poverty wage countries.
We also neeed a strong economic bloc or you are at the mercy of multinational corporations. Microsoft for instance. it's only the eec that would be big enough to stop some of their more reprehensible trade practices, EU nationalism means that the eu commission wants to safeguard european software businesses so competing companies have the means to lobby against software patents etc rather than just roll over to the big multinationals which is what would happen i it was just indivudual countries doing their own thing.
Agreed again. You know, some claim that China is viewing the new EU as a more important trading partner than the U.S. By sheer market size, the EU will prove to have some economic meat behind it.
The constitution is intended to put the eu parliament at the heart of the legislature and act as a check on the commission, classic separation between legislator and executive. Most europeans are ambivalent about it. In the UK case 70% of our manufacturing exports are to the EEC, you tend to find businessmen that are hostile are the ones not exporting- or if they do it's not to europe. It would be a bit stupid not to be involved as whether we like it or not european laws will effect us. If we pull out a lot of the current investment from foreign companies would disappear since if uk goods have to pay import tariffs making them on the uk would make them uncompetetive. That lack of tariffs is why you saw a boom in inwartd investment in the seventies after we joined the eec Having one currency would make life a lot easier as well as currently busienesses can lose out on currency shifts. Being a member means we have some input in to what happens, opt out and we are stuffed.
The other issue is electoral reform, mep's are elected by a pr system as opposed to first past the post. there is a move to try and get it extended to westminster but noth of the main parties are agin it as it would mean that neither wou;ld never have a clear majority Bit like your presidents, when was the last time you had one that the majority actually voted for?
Pretty much all of them except I think 4 to 5 since the 1800's.
That was brilliant and exactly why we need a strong parliament to control the executive, at the moment it is an incredibly corrupt boys club answerable to no one. Take you homophobic mysoginist back to rome yeah
The euro is an issue but why anyone cares is completely beyond me, it's the same with thoise who want to keep imperial measurements, quaint they may be but bloody awful to work with-having said that i still work out fuel consumption if miles per (imperial as opposed to us ) gallon.
In make up europe is a great deal more secular than the US. so the religious right is very much a fringe element, no one wants the church interfering in politics and there are enough protestent countries anyway so that things like abortion begin to came under human rights legislation and the decision is discussed by looking at the science rather than become a political football with any religious group trying to foist it's attitudes on to others facing an uphill struggle.
Scotland has done very well out of the eu enterprise zone system with money being spent on our infrastructue that westminster-despite pinching our oil - would never have done, apart from that most feel they have been ruled by a far away parliament with little control over it anyway with econmomic decisions being taken with no regard to the consequeces away from the south east. So has Eire come to that. We would do very well in an emlarged EU but the anti european lobby play the xenophobia card alll the time then wonder why thge national front make headway.
Rambling post, shouldn't do this when i am tired.
Simple answer, depends who you ask, the anti euro parties have a strong base in england, most scots are pro europe as we see where we trade with. If anything nationalism is making a revival. Most britons have been to the continent just as nmany europeans come here. (Bizarre as it may seem the rain and mist make it exotic) so people are a lot more informed than you might think. Whether we like it or not we can't ignore the eec and it would be better to be involved at the heart than whinging on the fringes.
As you may have gathered I am very much in favour, it's not perfect but it deoends on what we make of it,
Excellent analysis and info. I appreciate it!
Please use the "contact us" button if you need to contact a ForumGarden admin.
European Leaders Sign EU Constitution
capt_buzzard wrote: Hiya Tombstone,
www.eurobserver.com
read it all here.
I'll check again later. This link is not happy.
www.eurobserver.com
read it all here.
I'll check again later. This link is not happy.
Please use the "contact us" button if you need to contact a ForumGarden admin.
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capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
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capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
European Leaders Sign EU Constitution
Europe's Leaders on Friday, put their signatures to the EU's first constitution, setting aside fears that the document will be rejected by EU member state Irish Independent www.unison.ievoters,as they celebrated a new chapter of integration with a lavish ceeremony.
In the room that witnessed the birth of the Treaty of Rome in 1957, heads of government edorsed a document that took 28 months to negotiate and which has been the object of fierce criticism from Eurosceptics.
AS many as 11 countries will submit the constitution to a referendum and while it will be a formality in nations such as Spain, just one No vote could - in theory Stop it entering into force in 2007.
In the room that witnessed the birth of the Treaty of Rome in 1957, heads of government edorsed a document that took 28 months to negotiate and which has been the object of fierce criticism from Eurosceptics.
AS many as 11 countries will submit the constitution to a referendum and while it will be a formality in nations such as Spain, just one No vote could - in theory Stop it entering into force in 2007.