The Generation Growing Up.

[Carolly]

What has happened to respect these days from children?When I was a child anybody older than me I had to call Uncle or Aunty and if they were total strangers Mr or Mrs.Not now.........most children are brought up to call people by their first name and sorry but I for one just think that is so wrong.I feel because of that the child sees you as being on the same level as them and thats when the respect for older people goes out of the window.Also how many children actually say hello when you visit their parents.I know the parents are to blame for that but it still annoys me so much.Same as presents.........you give a child a present for Christmas or whatever and they just look at it as if to say..........oh right ..........because they just have to much I guess.Im no prude as most of you know..... but Im sorry but that is why I find it so hard at times to like children.The thing is give me a NICE child and they could get anything they wanted from me but it seems all Im seeing lately are rude ones and that makes me sad.

[Raven]

Oh no doubt! I cant help but think it shows what the parents are like, myself.

[chonsigirl]

It is up to the parents, but also the adult with whom they are addressing. I know here, children do tend to be more polite and address older people as Mr. or Miss-but usually their first name. (I found that kind of unique, almost like auntie or uncle, it is cultural) I find that if a child tries an unusual form of naming you-like hey you, lady, etc. a simple correction in reply usually sets them right. Just don't let them get away with it. Maybe it is because I am a teacher, and have that voice.....but if subbing in a class for a period, and the students do not know me, they soon do. It is the same in real life.

[Peg]

If the parents are to blame for their children's lack of manners, whose fault is it that those parents didn't teach them manners?

[G#Gill]

Peg;761680 wrote: If the parents are to blame for their children's lack of manners, whose fault is it that those parents didn't teach them manners?


Good question Peg !

[Raven]

Peg;761680 wrote: If the parents are to blame for their children's lack of manners, whose fault is it that those parents didn't teach them manners?
I dont think it's that as much as a current attitude anymore. I taught my kids manners, but even my children have this weird attitude. :-2

[Carolly]

Raven;761676 wrote: Oh no doubt! I cant help but think it shows what the parents are like, myself.
Well I have to admit that the mother of the children Im talking about wasn't brought up to call people Uncle or Aunty either and that is part of the problem.One of the kids Im talking about is 12 year old and although basically he is a nice kid he just talks to people as if were his class mates no matter what age they are. The girl who is much younger is the same and unless I want to fall out with the parents theres not alot I can do...although if i go there and if they cant be bothered to say hello I do tend to make a very sarcy remark about them not saying hello and if it ends in a row so be it.the thing is if i ignore them the same I am bringing myself down to their level.

[G#Gill]

I think the most horrifying thing is when, in the past I have had need to ask a child of around 8 years old, to stop throwing stones at house windows, suggesting the stone could bounce back off a wall and hit them in the face, I get "Oh f***k off you fat old cow !!". ( the only correct thing in that delightful retort is he got the right gender !). Yes OK Carol, I'm not in my twenties any more (physically) so button it, particularly as you aged a year yesterday !! :wah::wah:

[Carolly]

chonsigirl;761678 wrote: It is up to the parents, but also the adult with whom they are addressing. I know here, children do tend to be more polite and address older people as Mr. or Miss-but usually their first name. (I found that kind of unique, almost like auntie or uncle, it is cultural) I find that if a child tries an unusual form of naming you-like hey you, lady, etc. a simple correction in reply usually sets them right. Just don't let them get away with it. Maybe it is because I am a teacher, and have that voice.....but if subbing in a class for a period, and the students do not know me, they soon do. It is the same in real life.School teachers do not have the power over here that they did when I was a child...mind you nor has a parent come to think of it.Children have even taken their parents to court fgs.I remember having a go at some kids down the market who were throwing stones at some birds and you know what they said............why what you gonna do about it??............thats what so many are like these days......as I said before.....just no respect.

[Chezzie]

My girls call my best mates Auntie, One, Auntie Lorna, also has two girls that are the same age as my girls and they are also friends, however my youngest thinks their cousins because she calls Lorna "Auntie....

The nursery/playgroup that my girls attended, the playgroup leaders and assistants were all known as "Auntie", they never called them by their first name.

Now my girls are a bit older, they ask why do we call them auntie/uncle if their not our aunt and uncle..I talked about respect and told them to call them mr or mrs if they were unhappy with auntie. So it goes like this:

Molly : Hi Mrs Dorrans

Mrs Dorrans, oh molly call me Elaine

Poor buggers, no wonder their confused lol

[Carolly]

Chezzie;761704 wrote: My girls call my best mates Auntie, One, Auntie Lorna, also has two girls that are the same age as my girls and they are also friends, however my youngest thinks their cousins because she calls Lorna "Auntie....

The nursery/playgroup that my girls attended, the playgroup leaders and assistants were all known as "Auntie", they never called them by their first name.



Now my girls are a bit older, they ask why do we call them auntie/uncle if their not our aunt and uncle..I talked about respect and told them to call them mr or mrs if they were unhappy with auntie. So it goes like this:

Molly : Hi Mrs Dorrans

Mrs Dorrans, oh molly call me Elaine

Poor buggers, no wonder their confused lolChez.............yer a good mum babe and well done for that;)

[Carolly]

Peg;761680 wrote: If the parents are to blame for their children's lack of manners, whose fault is it that those parents didn't teach them manners?I agree totally.............I just dont know what planet these people are on sometimes .

[Carolly]

G#Gill;761694 wrote: I think the most horrifying thing is when, in the past I have had need to ask a child of around 8 years old, to stop throwing stones at house windows, suggesting the stone could bounce back off a wall and hit them in the face, I get "Oh f***k off you fat old cow !!". ( the only correct thing in that delightful retort is he got the right gender !). Yes OK Carol, I'm not in my twenties any more (physically) so button it, particularly as you aged a year yesterday !! :wah::wah:Gill look at all the agg you have had lately fgs!!!!By the way I get younger dear now older:p:rolleyes:

[grh]

Swear to god a friend of mine was just telling me last week about her daughter getting sent to the principals office for being rude.

They just moved here from the south and she apparently kept answering 'no sir' or 'yes sir' to her teacher every time he asked her a question.... he thought she was being sarcastic!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

[RedGlitter]

It's because adults themselves have no manners, Carol. Look at our society. Heck, look at this forum. I don't see a lot of manners in either. I don't blame the kids that much because society is their example.

[Carolly]

grh;761818 wrote: Swear to god a friend of mine was just telling me last week about her daughter getting sent to the principals office for being rude.

They just moved here from the south and she apparently kept answering 'no sir' or 'yes sir' to her teacher every time he asked her a question.... he thought she was being sarcastic!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Oh fgs grh :wah: sometimes you cant win!!!!:wah:;)

[Carolly]

RedGlitter;761823 wrote: It's because adults themselves have no manners, Carol. Look at our society. Heck, look at this forum. I don't see a lot of manners in either. I don't blame the kids that much because society is their example.
Red I hear what yer saying and to a certain point yes I have to agree.I have dealt with the "public" in many forms and can see where some kids get their manners from.But some years ago I had a cousin.........have to say she was a right lady.....not like me:wah:......I also have to say that yes she did bring her kids up to call older people Uncle and Auntry ....but my God it stopped there. They were just..........spoilt horrible bratts basically and what really amazed me was ....how the hell didn't she see it???

[kazalala]

I hope im not gonna get in trouble here, but in my experience i have found working class have generally better manners than upper class. e.g. when my hubs was in the RAF and we were stationed on a nato camp. i decided to do a bit of Avon selling, the area where the junior servicemen and their families lived were great, English American, whatever it didnt matter, even if they didnt want to look they would say a polite no thank you. However the area the officers lived in was different, very rude indeed, and in fact some of them just looked at me as if i was something they had scraped off their shoe and shut the door. A friend of mine worked in a nursery on the camp, and she said the same thing about the children there, the officers children were the most rude and didnt know any basic manners.

Theres no point to this post really, just an observation:-3:D

[Carolly]

kazalala;761911 wrote: I hope im not gonna get in trouble here, but in my experience i have found working class have generally better manners than upper class. e.g. when my hubs was in the RAF and we were stationed on a nato camp. i decided to do a bit of Avon selling, the area where the junior servicemen and their families lived were great, English American, whatever it didnt matter, even if they didnt want to look they would say a polite no thank you. However the area the officers lived in was different, very rude indeed, and in fact some of them just looked at me as if i was something they had scraped off their shoe and shut the door. A friend of mine worked in a nursery on the camp, and she said the same thing about the children there, the officers children were the most rude and didnt know any basic manners.

Actually Kaz you do have a good point there I have to say.

[Imladris]

kazalala;761911 wrote: I hope im not gonna get in trouble here, but in my experience i have found working class have generally better manners than upper class. e.g. when my hubs was in the RAF and we were stationed on a nato camp. i decided to do a bit of Avon selling, the area where the junior servicemen and their families lived were great, English American, whatever it didnt matter, even if they didnt want to look they would say a polite no thank you. However the area the officers lived in was different, very rude indeed, and in fact some of them just looked at me as if i was something they had scraped off their shoe and shut the door. A friend of mine worked in a nursery on the camp, and she said the same thing about the children there, the officers children were the most rude and didnt know any basic manners.



Theres no point to this post really, just an observation:-3:D


Kaz, I found that it was 'new money' who were extremely condescending when I ran a tearoom. Ordinary Joe Bloggs could be a bit ignorant at times but it was pure ignorance in that they didn't know better. Old money had the manners to go with it, they were taught at a young age that you treat 'staff' well to get good service but the number of times I was looked down on by my 'equals' - it used to pizz me off something chronic! I used to feel like chucking their cream tea at them!

[kazalala]

Imladris;761978 wrote: Kaz, I found that it was 'new money' who were extremely condescending when I ran a tearoom. Ordinary Joe Bloggs could be a bit ignorant at times but it was pure ignorance in that they didn't know better. Old money had the manners to go with it, they were taught at a young age that you treat 'staff' well to get good service but the number of times I was looked down on by my 'equals' - it used to pizz me off something chronic! I used to feel like chucking their cream tea at them!


It seems worse to me when its adults who "forget" their basic manners, i can excuse a child, but an adult should know better.

[Carolly]

kazalala;762038 wrote: It seems worse to me when its adults who "forget" their basic manners, i can excuse a child, but an adult should know better.Very good point Kaz.The thing is so many adults talk to the children as if they were adults and so the child answers back as if they were and this at times can be very rude and disrespectful.

[Galbally]

Firstly it has to be said that not all children are miniature thugs, or spoiled brats, and that many parents do their best to raise their children with some form of healthy regard for themselves and others, but certainly its true that there are serious issues of complete social breakdown across many countries, but particularly the English speaking ones, and its hardly surprising when you consider this

In a society where we have abrogated a lot of the responsibilities that are absolutley our own on others in authority;

where we blame our own shortcomings on everything other than ourselves as individuals making bad choices,

where the idea that everyone has the right to do whatever they want pretty much regardless of the consequences on those around us

where foolish PC politicians peddle low cost, low pain, solutions to social problems and we accept it, because we don't want difficult solutions, and we don't want to feel bad about hard decisions, we want an easy life and a new car, and its too complicated

that we should only fear the consequences of our actions if we can't get away with it;

that a person's only useful measure of worth is how much they have, how important their job is, or how pretty they look;

that its recieved wisdom that a child misbehaves because of a multitude of various complicated reasons other than the main one that children do not behave nicely unless they are taught to behave properly, and have fear of the consequences of misbehaving, and that involves an adult taking the time and effort to teach them properly;

where we feel entitled to have as much as we can afford instantaneously whether we need it or not;

where all kind of crazy beliefs can be considered valid whether they have any basis in fact whatsoever, because everyone has a right to an opinion, but its not nice to point out that some people's opinions are based on the fact they are idiots;

where we have elevated to having easy money, champagne lifestyles, cheap sex, and meaningless celebrity to a semi-religion, and being cooly ignorant, apathetic, mediocre, dismissive of things we don't understand, and mindlessly ironic are seen as virtues;

where ideas like personal honour, self-denial, probity, duty, responsibility are considered laughable anachronisms; where we teach that all human values are relative and that one man's psychotic murder spree is another man's photo opportunity;

we teach our children these lessons repeatedly because we are too busy to spend time with them so that now their main collective view of the world (and most adults as well) is via hours of commercially driven television consumed every day (its only remit is to convince us to purchase as many consumer products as humanly possible, its not up to television to be a moral guardian and there is no point blaming the TV, just switch it off, and deny them something for once),

and we now completely reinforce our spoiled, lazy, self-important children that they are entitled in the age-old belief of being a child that they know what is best for them and adults are irrelevant bores, and mostl importantly they can act whatever way they like because parents and teachers and even police officers are no longer able to chastize a growing minority of seriously disfunctional violent or abusive children without fear of either being attacked by the same children, losing their love, or being accused of abuse by other adults including their own spouse or a work superior and perhaps ending up in a child's court, losing their job, or perhaps being stabbed to death.

it is therefore no wonder that we are turning into the first human adult generation to be truly afraid of our own children, and we are far too soft, stupid, and weak to do anything about it except blame the government, society, culture, the media, or just about anyone or anything except ourselves, just like we do for all of our own shortcomings nowadays.

[Carolly]

Galbally;762244 wrote: In a society where we have abrogated a lot of the responsibilities that are absolutley our own on others in authority;

where we blame our own shortcomings on everything other than ourselves as individuals making bad choices,

where the idea that everyone has the right to do whatever they want pretty much regardless of the consequences on those around us

where foolish PC politicians peddle low cost, low pain, solutions to problems and we accept it, because we don't want difficult solutions, we want an easy life

that we should only fear the consequences of our actions if we can't get away with it;

that a person's only useful measure of worth is how much they have, how important their job is, or how pretty they look;

that its recieved wisdom that a child misbehaves because of a multitude of various complicated reasons other than the main one that children do not behave nicely unless they are taught to behave properly, and have fear of the consequences of misbehaving, and that involves an adult taking the time and effort to teach them properly;

where we feel entitled to have as much as we can afford instantaneously whether we need it or not;

where all kind of crazy beliefs can be considered valid whether they have any basis in fact whatsoever;

where we have elevated easy money, cheap sex, meaningless celebrity, and being cooly ignorant, apathetic, mediocre, and mindlessly ironic as supreme post-modern virtues;

where ideas like personal honour, self-denial, probity, duty, responsibility are considered laughable anachronisms; where we teach that all human values are relative and that one man's psychotic murder spree is another man's photo opportunity;

we teach our children these lessons repeatedly because we are too busy to spend time with them so there main collective view of the world is via hours of commercially driven television consumed every day (its only remit is to convince us to purchase as many consumer products as humanly possible, its not up to television to be a moral guardian and there is no point blaming the TV, just switch it off, and deny them something for once),

and we reinforce our spoiled, lazy, self-important children that they are entitled in the age-old belief that they know what is best for them and adults are irrelevant bores, and where parents and teachers are no longer able to chastize children without fear of either being attacked by the same children or being accused of abuse by other adults

B]it is no wonder that we are turning into the first human adult generation to be truly afraid of our own children, and we are far too soft, stupid, and weak to do anything about it except blame the government or the media, just like we blame our governments or our medias for all of our own shortcomings nowadays. Sorry babe but its gone above my head....but are you saying you agree with all that has been said??

[Galbally]

Carolly;762247 wrote: Sorry babe but its gone above my head....but are you saying you agree with all that has been said??


I am saying that we are the first generation of adults who are afraid of our own children, because we have taught them quite well not to require to be respectful or be afraid of us, or fear anything else, other than the violence they meet out to each other. I don't know if that agrees with what other people have said.

[mrsK]

The kids at our school call all the staff by Mrs,Miss,Mr.

Our grandkids friends call me mrsK.

When I was working behind the bar at our local club,I was so used to not giving the kids things until they said thank you or please,that I started to say it to the patrons of the club.

I didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me.

We had a good laugh about it & after a while everyone would ask me for a beer"please":wah::-6

[spot]

Carolly;761675 wrote: the child sees you as being on the same level as them and thats when the respect for older people goes out of the window.


What an astonishing thread. I had to read it twice, slowly.

I've met quite a few adults and quite a few children, I can generalize meaningfully. In general the children have been more honest, more willing to help, more interested in other people and easily as polite. There's no reason why older people shouldn't be able to retain respect but it's amazing how many of them fail to.

I brought up four children and at least taught them correct forms of introduction and address. Aunt and Uncle figured among these as biological relationships. None of my children have ever addressed an uncle or aunt, or so much as referred to them in their absence, without the correct honorific. None have applied those words to any other adult.

They also learned from an early age the difference between politeness and respect, and the social duty to continue with the one long after the other had been forfeited. They eventually worked out how to be impolite too on those rare occasions when it might be necessary, much to my relief, but they were well into their teens by then. Being impolite is far harder.

[Carolly]

Galbally;762261 wrote: I am saying that we are the first generation of adults who are afraid of our own children, because we have taught them quite well not to require to be respectful or be afraid of us, or fear anything else, other than the violence they meet out to each other. I don't know if that agrees with what other people have said.
You are so right Galbally and thankyou for that.

[Carolly]

spot;762274 wrote: What an astonishing thread. I had to read it twice, slowly.

I've met quite a few adults and quite a few children, I can generalize meaningfully. In general the children have been more honest, more willing to help, more interested in other people and easily as polite. There's no reason why older people shouldn't be able to retain respect but it's amazing how many of them fail to.

I brought up four children and at least taught them correct forms of introduction and address. Aunt and Uncle figured among these as biological relationships. None of my children have ever addressed an uncle or aunt, or so much as referred to them in their absence, without the correct honorific. None have applied those words to any other adult.

They also learned from an early age the difference between politeness and respect, and the social duty to continue with the one long after the other had been forfeited. They eventually worked out how to be impolite too on those rare occasions when it might be necessary, much to my relief, but they were well into their teens by then. Being impolite is far harder.Everyone has an opinion and thankyou for yours Spot.

[spot]

That wasn't opinion, that was evidence.

[G#Gill]

Galbally;762244 wrote: Firstly it has to be said that not all children are miniature thugs, or spoiled brats, and that many parents do their best to raise their children with some form of healthy regard for themselves and others, but certainly its true that there are serious issues of complete social breakdown across many countries, but particularly the English speaking ones, and its hardly surprising when you consider this

In a society where we have abrogated a lot of the responsibilities that are absolutley our own on others in authority;

where we blame our own shortcomings on everything other than ourselves as individuals making bad choices,

where the idea that everyone has the right to do whatever they want pretty much regardless of the consequences on those around us

where foolish PC politicians peddle low cost, low pain, solutions to social problems and we accept it, because we don't want difficult solutions, and we don't want to feel bad about hard decisions, we want an easy life and a new car, and its too complicated

that we should only fear the consequences of our actions if we can't get away with it;

that a person's only useful measure of worth is how much they have, how important their job is, or how pretty they look;

that its recieved wisdom that a child misbehaves because of a multitude of various complicated reasons other than the main one that children do not behave nicely unless they are taught to behave properly, and have fear of the consequences of misbehaving, and that involves an adult taking the time and effort to teach them properly;

where we feel entitled to have as much as we can afford instantaneously whether we need it or not;

where all kind of crazy beliefs can be considered valid whether they have any basis in fact whatsoever, because everyone has a right to an opinion, but its not nice to point out that some people's opinions are based on the fact they are idiots;

where we have elevated to having easy money, champagne lifestyles, cheap sex, and meaningless celebrity to a semi-religion, and being cooly ignorant, apathetic, mediocre, dismissive of things we don't understand, and mindlessly ironic are seen as virtues;

where ideas like personal honour, self-denial, probity, duty, responsibility are considered laughable anachronisms; where we teach that all human values are relative and that one man's psychotic murder spree is another man's photo opportunity;

we teach our children these lessons repeatedly because we are too busy to spend time with them so that now their main collective view of the world (and most adults as well) is via hours of commercially driven television consumed every day (its only remit is to convince us to purchase as many consumer products as humanly possible, its not up to television to be a moral guardian and there is no point blaming the TV, just switch it off, and deny them something for once),

and we now completely reinforce our spoiled, lazy, self-important children that they are entitled in the age-old belief of being a child that they know what is best for them and adults are irrelevant bores, and mostl importantly they can act whatever way they like because parents and teachers and even police officers are no longer able to chastize a growing minority of seriously disfunctional violent or abusive children without fear of either being attacked by the same children, losing their love, or being accused of abuse by other adults including their own spouse or a work superior and perhaps ending up in a child's court, losing their job, or perhaps being stabbed to death.

it is therefore no wonder that we are turning into the first human adult generation to be truly afraid of our own children, and we are far too soft, stupid, and weak to do anything about it except blame the government, society, culture, the media, or just about anyone or anything except ourselves, just like we do for all of our own shortcomings nowadays.


Wow Galbally ! I think you've got that right !

It all boils down to parents teaching their children RESPECT for themselves, RESPECT for other people and ALL property. Until this is done, things will only get worse.

At school - it is a big mistake for staff to attend school dressed in denims and tee shirts, and allow the children to call them by their christian names. This seems to be an attempt to gain co-operation from the children by 'lowering' themselves to a child's level - IT JUST DOESN'T WORK 95% OF THE TIME.

When I went to school, the staff dressed in suits, or sports jackets with shirts and ties. The lady teachers dressed in 'in the office' type clothing - summer dresses or skirts, blouses, jumpers etc. Teachers dressed like this are automatically accepted by the children as the authority. Teachers were also always addressed as Mr ........., Mrs .........., or Miss ........... ----- just common courtesy and respect from less experienced children to more experienced and knowledgeable adults.

When I drove a school taxi, taking 'special needs' children to and from school, I was horrified to see members of male staff arriving sporting very long unkempt hair, scruffy sweat shirts with slogans on them, scruffy and ripped denim jeans and 'cargo' trousers, and the children greeting them with 'Ay up Pete,' or ' Ay up Simon !' and when the greeting was returned followed by a 'right you lot, get in your lines!' one lad would say ' F. . k off ! ' That teacher said absolutely nothing, totally ignoring the lad's foul language. What does all that teach these children ?

Certainly not RESPECT !!!!!!

[G#Gill]

mrsK;762270 wrote: The kids at our school call all the staff by Mrs,Miss,Mr.

Our grandkids friends call me mrsK.

When I was working behind the bar at our local club,I was so used to not giving the kids things until they said thank you or please,that I started to say it to the patrons of the club.

I didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me.

We had a good laugh about it & after a while everyone would ask me for a beer"please":wah::-6


This brings a smile to my face, because it reminds me of when I owned a charter/trip boat on the River Trent, and we used to get several American tourists visiting Nottingham, probably because of the association with Robin Hood, and they'd take in a boat trip during their visit.

I was behind the bar dispensing drinks, coffee, tea etc. This American came to the bar and said ' Two pints of lager', I looked at him and said ' The magic word is?' The man looked puzzled, so I repeated his order to me and added ' The magic word ? --------- Please?' He frowned at me (must have thought I was off my trolley I think) and said 'Please' with a scowl, I said 'thankyou sir'. I presented him with his two drinks, placing them on the drip tray on the bar, telling him the price and adding 'please ' . He paid his money and picked up the two pint glasses, and I said ' and the other magic words?' he half turned away and said 'Geez . . . . . . . . . . . . .. thank you '. A while later he returned for refills (which surprised me considering what had gone on before), he asked for 'The same again .... please', so I said 'thank you sir' I gave him two more lagers in clean glasses, he paid for them, and with a smile said 'Thank you very much' !!!

It seemed to me that a lot of Americans just do not say please and thank you, as this particular scenario was repeated so many times when Americans came on the boat, more so than any other nationality and that includes Brits.!

[Galbally]

Again, we do need to keep this in perspective, most kids are fine, (though certainly quite materially spoiled compared to previous generations, and far too knowing for their age and ill mannered, though thats not a new complaint by adults, but thats not the end of the world), it is a minority of children, but a significant minority we are talking about that have serious problems and are causing everyone around them serious problems, and also few people would deliberatly set out to raise their children incorrectly, but unfortunatly its also pointless to ignore the social problems that are going on.

[Victoria]

I have taught my children to respect other people but I expect people to respect my children. I had to speak to a man a couple of years ago for pushing in front of my 14 yr old in a shop, he grunted at me but made no apology to my daughter at all and just barged his way out of the shop.

Having said that I used to work in a shop myself and one afternoon a woman came in with her daughter about 4 yrs old. The child was stunning like the old pears soap advert, long curly hair fantastic big brown eyes and so pretty. I smiled at the child and was stunned when she said 'what you looking at bi*ch'? Her mother didn't even flinch. I stopped serving her mother and just folded my arms, the mother then looked up to find out what was going on and I said 'until I get an apology Im not going to continue serving you' The mother mumbled something and I replied 'no not you your daughter'

It was like pulling teeth but I got my apology.

The other thing is the way adults treat each other its no use telling your children to respect others if you dont or if partners dont respect each other. My friend came to dinner and after the meal my husband said thankyou for dinner and kissed me, as he always does, my friend was amazed she said in 12 years her husband has never once said thankyou after a meal. How then can you expect the children to do so.?

[kazalala]

Galbally;762244 wrote: Firstly it has to be said that not all children are miniature thugs, or spoiled brats, and that many parents do their best to raise their children with some form of healthy regard for themselves and others, but certainly its true that there are serious issues of complete social breakdown across many countries, but particularly the English speaking ones, and its hardly surprising when you consider this

In a society where we have abrogated a lot of the responsibilities that are absolutley our own on others in authority;

where we blame our own shortcomings on everything other than ourselves as individuals making bad choices,

where the idea that everyone has the right to do whatever they want pretty much regardless of the consequences on those around us

where foolish PC politicians peddle low cost, low pain, solutions to social problems and we accept it, because we don't want difficult solutions, and we don't want to feel bad about hard decisions, we want an easy life and a new car, and its too complicated

that we should only fear the consequences of our actions if we can't get away with it;

that a person's only useful measure of worth is how much they have, how important their job is, or how pretty they look;

that its recieved wisdom that a child misbehaves because of a multitude of various complicated reasons other than the main one that children do not behave nicely unless they are taught to behave properly, and have fear of the consequences of misbehaving, and that involves an adult taking the time and effort to teach them properly;

where we feel entitled to have as much as we can afford instantaneously whether we need it or not;

where all kind of crazy beliefs can be considered valid whether they have any basis in fact whatsoever, because everyone has a right to an opinion, but its not nice to point out that some people's opinions are based on the fact they are idiots;

where we have elevated to having easy money, champagne lifestyles, cheap sex, and meaningless celebrity to a semi-religion, and being cooly ignorant, apathetic, mediocre, dismissive of things we don't understand, and mindlessly ironic are seen as virtues;

where ideas like personal honour, self-denial, probity, duty, responsibility are considered laughable anachronisms; where we teach that all human values are relative and that one man's psychotic murder spree is another man's photo opportunity;

we teach our children these lessons repeatedly because we are too busy to spend time with them so that now their main collective view of the world (and most adults as well) is via hours of commercially driven television consumed every day (its only remit is to convince us to purchase as many consumer products as humanly possible, its not up to television to be a moral guardian and there is no point blaming the TV, just switch it off, and deny them something for once),

and we now completely reinforce our spoiled, lazy, self-important children that they are entitled in the age-old belief of being a child that they know what is best for them and adults are irrelevant bores, and mostl importantly they can act whatever way they like because parents and teachers and even police officers are no longer able to chastize a growing minority of seriously disfunctional violent or abusive children without fear of either being attacked by the same children, losing their love, or being accused of abuse by other adults including their own spouse or a work superior and perhaps ending up in a child's court, losing their job, or perhaps being stabbed to death.

it is therefore no wonder that we are turning into the first human adult generation to be truly afraid of our own children, and we are far too soft, stupid, and weak to do anything about it except blame the government, society, culture, the media, or just about anyone or anything except ourselves, just like we do for all of our own shortcomings nowadays.


A lot of good points Gallbally. I have highlighted your point about not spending enough time with them as i think this is one of the main shortcomings with some parents. I chose not to work, or to work around my husbands shifts while my children were growing up, so as to spend as much time as possible with them and to ensure they were brought up by my husband and I, their parents. I dont condem mothers who choose to work, or have to work as the case may be. My sister in law always worked and her kids were left with grand parents , but she still found the time to spend with them even if it meant taking them swimming etc. just as soon as she walked through the door from work, and the whole weekend also. It can be done. But i have noticed some parents today, spend their time finding ways to keep their kids out of their way! They dont spend any time with them at all, and cant even discipline them because they find it too hard to persevere with a punishment. Lazy.

We went out to a pub for tea last night. There was a family in having a meal, and when the meal was over the adults obviously wanted to stay for another couple of drinks. Fair enough, but the kids with them ended up being told off because they wouldnt just sit still at the table! They were'nt doing anything wrong or being naughty, or being rude to anyone. they were just playing and laughing, and yes got a bit overexcited. But how do people expect 5 or 6 year old kids to enjoy sitting at a table while their parents drink? They were bored. Its the same here on bank holidays, some parents think its acceptable to spend the whole day in a pub while the kids run riot.

[Imladris]

Victoria;762381 wrote: I have taught my children to respect other people but I expect people to respect my children. I had to speak to a man a couple of years ago for pushing in front of my 14 yr old in a shop, he grunted at me but made no apology to my daughter at all and just barged his way out of the shop.



Having said that I used to work in a shop myself and one afternoon a woman came in with her daughter about 4 yrs old. The child was stunning like the old pears soap advert, long curly hair fantastic big brown eyes and so pretty. I smiled at the child and was stunned when she said 'what you looking at bi*ch'? Her mother didn't even flinch. I stopped serving her mother and just folded my arms, the mother then looked up to find out what was going on and I said 'until I get an apology Im not going to continue serving you' The mother mumbled something and I replied 'no not you your daughter'

It was like pulling teeth but I got my apology.



The other thing is the way adults treat each other its no use telling your children to respect others if you dont or if partners dont respect each other. My friend came to dinner and after the meal my husband said thankyou for dinner and kissed me, as he always does, my friend was amazed she said in 12 years her husband has never once said thankyou after a meal. How then can you expect the children to do so.?


I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh but I can just imagine the look of shock on your face (and the one that would have been on mine!) but good for you for demanding an apology.



My kids are trained to recognise a certain expression on my face that means 'say thank you/ please etc' and they exhibit a Pavlovian response to it!!!! (no Jimbo - not desert:rolleyes:)

[KarmaDoodle]

I do feel like children don't fall far from the apple tree. Parents who worry about bad kids need to make sure they are setting a good example.

[Carolly]

Carolly;762352 wrote: Everyone has an opinion and thankyou for yours Spot.Sorry if you think this answer isn't good enough for you spot and call it "evidence" in an earlier post but if I cant thankyou for your opinion without a remark like that I really have nothing else to say.i am not here to row with people and I happen to think everybody IS entitled to their own opinion and in YOUR opinion it is evidence and like I said you are entitled to your opinion.

[hoxtonchris]

I agree with most of the replies here ,i was brought up in 50s england by a very straight laced victorian type father,he was way over the top but i did learn the basics of respect and manners,ime 56 years old yet still call uncles and aunts by those prefixes.i flinch when youngsters call me "mate"ugh!i thinkj the problem stems from us men ,many of us feel its "cissy" to be polite or respectfull and their kids pick up on that.i was in a checkout one day and a young boy was giving his mum grief,she looked around and said"kids what can you do?"to which i replied "copious amounts of agonising pain sweetheart"another time i mum had a little boy in a push chair as she tried to get in the doorway of a shop he stuck his feet out preventing access,"oh please let me go in boy "it took all my resolve to stop me smacking his lilly white twiglike little pins till they were crimson grrrrr now ime wound up again:-5:-5:mad:

[spot]

Carolly;762625 wrote: in YOUR opinion it is evidence and like I said you are entitled to your opinion.We're stuck on dictionary definitions here, that's all. Everything in my post was description of first-hand observation, not an expression of my opinion, with the single exception of a sentence relating to the respect owed to adults: "There's no reason why older people shouldn't be able to retain respect but it's amazing how many of them fail to."

Name me a year when you think the reactionary older generation didn't think the younger generation was disrespectful and I'll give you quotes from that year to the contrary, how's that?

[kazalala]

parents have a big responsibility to bring their children up with good manners. morals, ethics etc. But they do have to go out in to society sometime. I have noticed a marked change in my son from when he left home and joined the RAF 5 years ago, ( not for the better:() he is back home now and hopefully will sort himself out eventually. We are here to help him however we can.

[Galbally]

spot;762678 wrote: Name me a year when you think the reactionary older generation didn't think the younger generation was disrespectful and I'll give you quotes from that year to the contrary, how's that?


You are absolutely right, the generation gap is part of the human condition, and problems with young aggressive males (in particular) has been a problem since, well since there were young aggressive youths and older people to complain about them, I remember wryly reading Livy complain in one of his commentaries about the state of the Roman youth of his day and their lack of respect, bad manners, and self-destructive behaviour. Of course Roman society did eventually collapse along with their empire so maybe its not the lesson you think it is. Anyway, just because this is an age old issue, doesn't mean its not a problem, its just an constant issue in all human societies that always needs to be managed, and certainly can't be ignored, in that if a civilized society wishes to continue in the long term it needs to nuture and also teach its children well.

My point here is that in many ways we are completely failing to do this for many young people, and the reasons are based on well-meaning intentions going wrong, a modern cultural trend that tends to label rules as a bad thing that limit people, when in fact they do the opposite, a perverse culture of fear that is handing the streets to hoodlums, and a lack of confidence in imposing rules (and enforcing them) on people's personal behavioral and moral standards, however old school they may seem. This is important for everyone, but especially the young as they are inexperienced, always a little bit conceited, and easily influenced. Of course what young people teach older people is that hope springs eternal, change is part of life always, and we have a duty to those younger than us to make the right decisions for their future more than our own.

[Carolly]

Look I dont write fancy words as maybe Im not that clever but spot no matter what you say ......it has got worse with the younger generation and you only have to read the local London papers and the ones around here also to see that fgs.Its no good you throwing yer quotes at me as all I know is what I see, hear and read and this is not what I remember as a young girl thats for sure.When I was a cab driver I used to work nights......I would get home about 4am and then take my dogs out for a walk.........apart from the fact where I lived then you would be afraid to walk out during the day now...........can you imagine anywhere in London that you could walk on your own now late at night especially a woman.I know many policeman and you would not believe some of the stories I have been told and how young some of the offenders have been.So you see I may not have some of the smart words you may use but I know what I know as you know what you do and thats all that matters at the end of the day.

[AussiePam]

I think I've met, in my life, a lot of rude people, and some of them were kids. Most of them however were adults. The old lady who bangs a door in your face. The aggressive, impatient driver. The woman slagging off the overworked girl at a checkout. I've met in my life some really polite, thoughtful, kind people too, and some of them were kids or teenagers.

In addressing people there is certainly more informality now. How many telemarketers ring you and instantly call you by your first name? The dental nurse? The doctor who is seeing you for the first time. I've tried to teach my kids to appreciate the different levels of formality required in different situations. And to be aware that they should treat all adults with formality, until the adult suggests otherwise.

[Carolly]

AussiePam;762829 wrote: I think I've met, in my life, a lot of rude people, and some of them were kids. Most of them however were adults. The old lady who bangs a door in your face. The aggressive, impatient driver. The woman slagging off the overworked girl at a checkout. I've met in my life some really polite, thoughtful, kind people too, and some of them were kids or teenagers.

In addressing people there is certainly more informality now. How many telemarketers ring you and instantly call you by your first name? The dental nurse? The doctor who is seeing you for the first time. I've tried to teach my kids to appreciate the different levels of formality required in different situations. And to be aware that they should treat all adults with formality, until the adult suggests otherwise.
Very true Pam.Make no mistake about it of course the parents are to blame how their little darlings behave at times.Some parents are blinded by love though and just cannot see any wrong in their little angels or even notice how rude they can be at times.A while ago a coulple of kids were at my stall and I watched as they tried to break something by "bashing" it......I asked them if they wanted to buy this object to which the Grandmother turned and told them to take no notice of me and kissed the little darlings incase I had upset them............upset them.............I felt like doing alot more to those 2 nasty, rude spoilt little gits.With stupid remarks from their Grandmother like that it makes me wonder what planet shes on fgs.But at the other end of the scale I have known some really lovely people who have produced monsters.So its not always down to the parents and alot pick up with the wrong type when they are at school ....which is so sad if they are easily led.

[abbey]

kazalala;762684 wrote: parents have a big responsibility to bring their children up with good manners. morals, ethics etc. But they do have to go out in to society sometime. I have noticed a marked change in my son from when he left home and joined the RAF 5 years ago, ( not for the better:() he is back home now and hopefully will sort himself out eventually. We are here to help him however we can.I'm sure with a mum like you Kaz He'll turn out just fine. :-4

[Carolly]

abbey;762837 wrote: I'm sure with a mum like you Kaz He'll turn out just fine. :-4Shes a GREAT mum Abbs and Im sure with her guidence(and going mad at him:wah:) he will again get back on the right track cause I know she will not put up with it and good on her for that.

[kazalala]

Stop talking about me you two:sneaky::wah:

Well i sometimes used to wonder,, what have i done wrong? but i have a daughter also and she is totally different This makes me think that yes, people are born with a certain character in them, and then theres the time when they get old enough so you have to let them go out in to the world themselves and mix with other people, so they can be influenced. But i thnk you just never have to give up on them. I have even considered chucking him out at one time, and once told him not to come back home again (when he was home one time from the RAF). But that didnt mean i didnt love him, i just wanted to shock him in to knowing i wasnt going to put up with "attitude". He knows i mean what i say which is why he goes to his dad more than me:wah: Anyway things are not too bad now, and he is hopefully starting a new job soon:D