'No Habla'

[Raven]

Open question for all my british buddies at FG:

Do you think a person should be able to communicate lucidly in 'english' before being allowed to work in such a vital place as the NHS?



By god, I DO!!!! :-5

I'm doing good to understand english with a heavy irish twist, a yorkshire lilt or a heavy scottish brogue. (even then I have to ask for a repeat please sometimes)

But it's nothing but total frustration when you throw a heavy african accent combined with a mumble on it!

How long will it be before a tragedy occurs?

Thank God noone seems to have trouble understanding my midwest american 'accent'. (still not convinced I'm the one with the accent though.) :yh_bigsmi

[spot]

Raven wrote: Do you think a person should be able to communicate lucidly in 'english' before being allowed to work in such a vital place as the NHS?Good Lord, if communicating lucidly in 'english' were a job requirement, I can think of several colleagues at the University who would be out on their ear in no time. Lucidly?

I note the following which suggests that the management agrees with you - I accept that it may not succeed entirely in practice, but that's a question of degree rather than intent. I spent every day of six months, during the past year, in hospital in Leicester, and I can remember no instance where I had trouble in following anyone's accent after a few sentences acclimatization, which would be normal for tuning into any dialect or local accent, for me.

International English Language Testing System (IELTS)

What is IELTS?

The IELTS is a comprehensive test of English Language proficiency which is designed to test the ability of non-native speakers of English who may wish to train or study in English.

Candidates are tested in listening, reading, writing and speaking, and will receive a score for each module of the test as well as an overall score. The scores range from 1 to 9, with 1 representing a non user (ie only a few isolated words known) to 9, an expert user who has a fully operational command together with complete understanding of the English Language.

IELTS is accepted by many professional organisations including the United Kingdom Central Council for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting (UKCC).

[capt_buzzard]

A good understanding of the spoken English language is required in most British government departments.

Mind you, I cannot understand some of the English spoken at our (Irish) government offices.

[BabyRider]

I am not British, but I gotta jump in here.

In my area, there are LOTS of party stores and gas stations owned by Middle Eastern people. When I go in and ask for whatever it is I need and the guy behind the counter has no idea what I am saying, it is really frustrating. If you are going to serve people who speak English, it's helpful if you speak English also.

I believe you are speaking of a launguage difference, not an accent, is that right Raven? I can deal with an accent. In fact, I find a lot of accents very pleasant to hear, but when a clerk in a store does not speak the language used by 95% of the people in the area, it is damn frustrating. I can think of 6 stores, within a mile of my house that I refuse to patronize because no one there speaks English.

Taking it a step further, I have been called everything from intolerant to flat out racist because I think people in this country WHO ARE DEALING WITH THE ENGLISH SPEAKING PUBLIC, should speak English. THAT ticks me off.

[minks]

Raven wrote: Open question for all my british buddies at FG:

Do you think a person should be able to communicate lucidly in 'english' before being allowed to work in such a vital place as the NHS?



By god, I DO!!!! :-5

I'm doing good to understand english with a heavy irish twist, a yorkshire lilt or a heavy scottish brogue. (even then I have to ask for a repeat please sometimes)

But it's nothing but total frustration when you throw a heavy african accent combined with a mumble on it!

How long will it be before a tragedy occurs?

Thank God noone seems to have trouble understanding my midwest american 'accent'. (still not convinced I'm the one with the accent though.) :yh_bigsmi


Ok going to give you my very Canadian opinion here.... YES!!!

nothing is more dangerous than being in a job and not being able to communicate proper. It puts everybody in jeopardy. Here in Canada he who speaks little english works the little jobs. That is just the way it goes.

[abbey]

I have to agree with Raven, it's bad enough the patients not understanding the drs heavy accent, but the very thought of the nurses struggling to decipher what they're saying fills me with dread!

Shame on the NHS.:yh_shame

[spot]

abbey wrote: I have to agree with Raven, it's bad enough the patients not understanding the drs heavy accent, but the very thought of the nurses struggling to decipher what they're saying fills me with dread!

Shame on the NHS.:yh_shameAbbey, why do you think they're likely to? I think I have more recent experience of the NHS than anyone else here, and my testimony on the adequacy of NHS testing and training of staff in English is on an earlier post - the key bit is:

I spent every day of six months, during the past year, in hospital in Leicester, and I can remember no instance where I had trouble in following anyone's accent after a few sentences acclimatization, which would be normal for tuning into any dialect or local accent, for me.Now, does anyone else have a different experience to relate? I've not seen one yet. I'd quite like to. Given how many other workers would like to get into the NHS but can't, because of the English proficiency tests in place, I think the NHS management do a fairly good job, but they've been rubbished in this thread and I can't yet see why.

[abbey]

spot wrote: Abbey, why do you think they're likely to?. Likely to what, spot?

[spot]

abbey wrote: Likely to what, spot?struggle to decipher what they're saying.

[abbey]

Just going off what Raven, who's a nurse posted..

But it's nothing but total frustration when you throw a heavy african accent combined with a mumble on it!



How long will it be before a tragedy occurs?

[BabyRider]

Who's a nurse, I believe, in THAT very hospital, correct?

[spot]

Ah. Missing piece of information now supplied. I had no idea Raven is a nurse in the NHS. I withdraw my comments, and agree that she's far better placed than I am to hold an informed opinion.

[Jives]

BabyRider wrote: I am not British, but I gotta jump in here.


Me Too! Oooooo...this topic pisses me off!

In my area, there are LOTS of party stores and gas stations owned by Middle Eastern people. When I go in and ask for whatever it is I need and the guy behind the counter has no idea what I am saying, it is really frustrating.


I've got the same problem, except it's the Hispanics. Listen...listen to me closely...If you want to come to America..fine. That's great.

NOW SPEAK ENGLISH!!

go ahead, keep your culture, your traditions, but if you and I can't communicate with each other , WE DON'T HAVE A COUNTRY!! How can we work out our problems? If I went to Mexico I would never expect everyone in the country to learn my language, but Mexicans come to the U.S. all the time and refuse to assimilate and speak English.

Without a common language what you get is isolated pockets of people with diffrering languages and customs, that's not a united country its' FREAKIN' BALKANISM! And we all know what happened there. The people begin to distrust each other, since they can't communicate, then hatred sets in and finally ..genocide!.

I can think of 6 stores, within a mile of my house that I refuse to patronize because no one there speaks English.


Good for you, BR. I'm right there on the picket line with you.

America, love it or leave it? Heck! America..BECOME it or leave it!

Taking it a step further, I have been called everything from intolerant to flat out racist because I think people in this country WHO ARE DEALING WITH THE ENGLISH SPEAKING PUBLIC, should speak English. THAT ticks me off.


One of the wonderful things about being older is that you no longer care what others think about you, so you don't have to be politically correct. Here in New Mexico illegal aliens are streaming across the border at a rate of 3,500 a day.

So when I hear one of them speaking Spanish in the local Walmart, I tell them LOUDLY:

"Solamente in Englias, Por Favor!"

Which is the only phrase I'm ever going to learn in their language.....

ONLY IN ENGLISH, PLEASE!



I take that back, I'm going to learn how to say, "You came to America, Now be an American!!!"

[spot]

Jives, have you a clue how few Americans who settle abroad can speak the language of the country they settle in? I've talked to resident Americans in the south of France. I can remember just two who had even tried to get past "une tasse de vin, garcon".

Would they qualify for your ire, to the same extent?

[Jives]

Ummmm...heh heh...yes. Yes they would.

But are the Americans going to France by the millions?

[spot]

God forbid! It's bad enough with the occasional German nostalgically revisiting the scenes of his youth.

[pina]

We have the same problems with language here in Spain. The English come in droves to live here because they think its cheaper to live, OAP's come for six months of the year (millions of them), and not one will attempt to speak Spanish. What's worse is (I am ashamed to admit that I am British) when I see these people getting angry with the locals for not speaking English. They even go to Gibralta to buy english food rather than buy Spanish and always go to English cafe's and bars looking for English beer.

Why do they go to other countries if dont like different cultures??:mad:

[along-for-the-ride]

There is a difference between speaking "english" and speaking "american".

Oh, we can understand each other fairly well, but both countries have their own dialects and slang expressions.

I work in the personnel department of an american company. We employ whites, blacks, hispanics, and now, koreans. I have picked up a few hispanic phrases pertaining to my job. But korean?? And sometimes it is difficult understanding some of our american black employees. Is sign language next?

[Lon]

Raven wrote: Open question for all my british buddies at FG:



Do you think a person should be able to communicate lucidly in 'english' before being allowed to work in such a vital place as the NHS?





By god, I DO!!!! :-5



I'm doing good to understand english with a heavy irish twist, a yorkshire lilt or a heavy scottish brogue. (even then I have to ask for a repeat please sometimes)



But it's nothing but total frustration when you throw a heavy african accent combined with a mumble on it!



How long will it be before a tragedy occurs?



Thank God noone seems to have trouble understanding my midwest american 'accent'. (still not convinced I'm the one with the accent though.) :yh_bigsmi
Two years ago I went into a hospital in Sacramento, California for a procedure. The admissions desk had a sign that said 22 languages were spoken in that hospital. I had a least five address me. Russian, Hmong, Spanish, Farsi & Laotian. These were either night nurses, aides & technicians. There English was somewhat passable and I asked their nationality. California is truly multi cultural and if you are caucasion you are in the minority.

[spot]

Lon wrote: California is truly multi cultural and if you are caucasion you are in the minority.And what's your first language, Lon?

[Lon]

spot wrote: And what's your first language, Lon?
My main language is English, pero, hablo Espanol tambien.

[Bothwell]

I may be wrong but is it not the case that the populations of certain US states (california) will soon be a majority of hispanics. Will spanish become the language of choice and will non speakers be obliged to learn it?

That was just a bit of mischief but the following point is a serious one. A friend of mine works for the social housing authority in Birmingham. He has 17 translators at his beck and call, he regularly interviews "clients" who speak no english at all. It is perfectly possible to live your life in parts of UK cities speaking only Urdu for example.

The translators have to fill in the forms and guide the clients through the process, that is all fine if it were not for the fact that these clients are claiming social housing, benefits, allowances etc.

As ever if you raise this subject I will be condemmed in some quarters for bing a xenophobic racist (probably a split infinitive as well) it is not the case. Surely it is right for us to extend the advantages of a life in the UK but in return maybe you could at least make some effort

[spot]

Bothwell wrote: It is perfectly possible to live your life in parts of UK cities speaking only Urdu for example.And has been for some while. I'm acquainted with a delightful Polish lady who arrived in Moreton in the Marsh in 1948, by way of an eventful European tour. She married here, brought up two children, occasionally travels now that the Wall has come down. The extent of her English is not far beyond an occasional "Thank you" - she made a beeline for the largest Polish community and never really emerged. It's perhaps a consequence of her experiences between 1939 and arriving here. She regards England as a temporary home, and still says that she's only waiting until it's safer before she goes back permanently to Krakow.

[capt_buzzard]

spot wrote: Jives, have you a clue how few Americans who settle abroad can speak the language of the country they settle in? I've talked to resident Americans in the south of France. I can remember just two who had even tried to get past "une tasse de vin, garcon".



Would they qualify for your ire, to the same extent?OH G!

[Raven]

Just to clarify a problem:

By no means am I diminishing my fellow nurses abilities AS nurses. My problem is, that being from a mid-west state that has little variation on our language, (WHICH IS ENGLISH thank you very much) it's difficult for me to understand REAL non-english speaking folks ESPECIALLY when they have trouble speaking english.

When they struggle to communicate my patients needs, (which may be urgent) combined with my struggle to understand them, it's outright FRUSTRATING!! My native language is english. I moved to THE country that gave me my native language. I dont think it would strain NHS funds beyond breaking point to hire a elocution teacher to teach non-english speaking folks to enunciate properly. Slang doesnt have a thing to do with it. I understand just fine when my british counterparts are trying to take a pi$$. And they understand just fine when I give it back! :yh_bigsmi