A few years ago, in Greater Vancouver, the government eliminated a huge number of beds in the Riverview hospital for the mentally ill. Many of these former patients ended up in the Downtown Eastside, which is the worst area in Canada for junkie populations. They have hotels for the "hard to house" where the mentally ill live side by side with addicts and criminals.
Surprise, surprise, they are now admitting that their little experiment was a failure after police reported that 30% of their calls involve the mentally ill. Up to 50% in some neighbourhoods. They are talking about creating an emergency center for dealing with police arrests of the mentally ill now and it might end up being located at... Riverview hospital.
koan;771624 wrote: How do you feel about the mentally ill and the welfare system?
Leave them on the streets, throw them in jail, or use the social system to care for them?
No, in a completely unexpected move, I say we should build hospitals that only cater for people with metal problems. We could train specialist doctors and nurses who might be able to understand these people, and also we could train people to councel them, and offer them therapies, also we could get pharmaceutical companies to see if they can help by developing specialist drugs that will help people to cope with the symptoms of mental illnesses. I think a good name for these hospitals would be asylums, and we could call the doctors phychiatrists or something catchy like that. The worst cases could be housed for as long as they require it, while less severely ill people could just be nursed and councelled until they were able to make steps back into the wider community. The hospitals could also be centres of specialist knowledge where experts and carers could help people who wouldn't require full hospital stays. Now I know it sound crazy, and it may mean that fewer problems are caused by people too ill to be responsible for their actions, it will also unfortunately mean that the police will be freed up to counter ordinary criminals, of course the public will be safer as well as an unpleasant side effect, and I am afraid it may also be slightly more cost effective than letting very ill people to walk the streets, but I think it just might work.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
koan;771624 wrote: How do you feel about the mentally ill and the welfare system?
Leave them on the streets, throw them in jail, or use the social system to care for them?
We had the same idea over here - they called it "Care in the community". It was a failure here too.
Many of those they placed in the community were incapable of dealing with society - that's why they were in the psychiatric hospital in the first place.
They need care, not being left to fend for themselves, not punishment for the crime of being ill.
yes, they seemed to have found a good balance between smuggling the ill in through tunnels and hiding them from view and just leaving them to fend for themselves... until someone decided that it was costing too much.
The downtown eastside in Vancouver, last time I viewed it, had characters that would leave their hotel without pants on and police had to escort him back to put is clothes on. The police are not babysitters. They have more important things to do. Especially in the downtown eastside.
Bryn Mawr;771648 wrote: We had the same idea over here - they called it "Care in the community". It was a failure here too.
Many of those they placed in the community were incapable of dealing with society - that's why they were in the psychiatric hospital in the first place.
They need care, not being left to fend for themselves, not punishment for the crime of being ill.Unfortunately Bryn because its not a physical illness and cannot be seen or discussed about with that person we tend to forget that mental illness at the end of the day is an illness and we should never ever forget that.
Women are bitchy and predictable ...men are not and that's the key to knowing the truth.
Carolly;771656 wrote: Unfortunately Bryn because its not a physical illness and cannot be seen or discussed about with that person we tend to forget that mental illness at the end of the day is an illness and we should never ever forget that.
Spend any sort of time with them and it is obvious that they are ill and need care.
Bryn Mawr;771667 wrote: Spend any sort of time with them and it is obvious that they are ill and need care.I agree totally Bryn infact I always think........there but for the grace of God go I.
Women are bitchy and predictable ...men are not and that's the key to knowing the truth.
koan;771474 wrote: A few years ago, in Greater Vancouver, the government eliminated a huge number of beds in the Riverview hospital for the mentally ill. Many of these former patients ended up in the Downtown Eastside, which is the worst area in Canada for junkie populations. They have hotels for the "hard to house" where the mentally ill live side by side with addicts and criminals.
Surprise, surprise, they are now admitting that their little experiment was a failure after police reported that 30% of their calls involve the mentally ill. Up to 50% in some neighbourhoods. They are talking about creating an emergency center for dealing with police arrests of the mentally ill now and it might end up being located at... Riverview hospital.
Gee, what a novel idea. Morons.
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I cannot remember who was in government when they closed Riverview down. I am sure if you think about it, this is another way for Vancouver to look clean when 2010 rolls around. The government does not give a rat's ass about these people with psychological problems. They just want them off the street. I wonder what they are going to do with all the druggies, round them up and ship them off to some island in the Strait of Georgia? This is another exercise by Vancouver to make it look clean and pretty when the Olympics are here. Sorry, but that is my opinion only.
This thread does not seem to be getting any attention. I am sure that this is a problem everywhere, but it needs to be recognized that governments close doors to the mentally ill, and because they just have not gone away and family take them in, they end up on city streets. Now, the government wants to clean up their mess and now go a step further to get them off the streets. Re-open Rivewview, a.k.a. Essondale.
Statistics in the UK show that one in four of us will, at some point in our lives, experience serious mental illness. Maybe we should change the way we refer to "the mentally ill." Maybe it would be a helpful start if we were to stop seeing "them" as a separate group and talk about "us" instead?
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
theia;771937 wrote: Statistics in the UK show that one in four of us will, at some point in our lives, experience serious mental illness. Maybe we should change the way we refer to "the mentally ill." Maybe it would be a helpful start if we were to stop seeing "them" as a separate group and talk about "us" instead?
Mia culpa
It's wishful thinking on my part, saying to myself that it will never be my (I hope).
As you say, at the end of the day it could be any of us.
theia;771937 wrote: Statistics in the UK show that one in four of us will, at some point in our lives, experience serious mental illness. Maybe we should change the way we refer to "the mentally ill." Maybe it would be a helpful start if we were to stop seeing "them" as a separate group and talk about "us" instead?
Yes you are so right there.A breakdown is a horrible thing and so is depression and yes some do have it so bad that they are put in hospital and "shut away"it happened to a good friend of mine.Mind you that was caused by drink which nearly killed them just as it did their brother.Thank God they are well now and leading a normal life.I myself have had a break down some years ago and I was lucky...very lucky infact but thats another story and I think you know what Im talking about theia.But you made a very good point there love.
Women are bitchy and predictable ...men are not and that's the key to knowing the truth.
moonpie;771860 wrote: I cannot remember who was in government when they closed Riverview down. I am sure if you think about it, this is another way for Vancouver to look clean when 2010 rolls around. The government does not give a rat's ass about these people with psychological problems. They just want them off the street. I wonder what they are going to do with all the druggies, round them up and ship them off to some island in the Strait of Georgia? This is another exercise by Vancouver to make it look clean and pretty when the Olympics are here. Sorry, but that is my opinion only.
Yes, creating appearances is part of it. They have another downtown issue though, in that they've made promises to land developers who built condos in the heart of the downtown eastside believing that the government was going to relocate all the junkies and hard to house. That hasn't happened and there are a lot of unhappy condo owners. I believe the plan was to keep pushing them further down Hasting St, away from the downtown area. So Commercial Ave will go from funky to junkie. DERA is trying to stop the political push.
theia;771937 wrote: Statistics in the UK show that one in four of us will, at some point in our lives, experience serious mental illness. Maybe we should change the way we refer to "the mentally ill." Maybe it would be a helpful start if we were to stop seeing "them" as a separate group and talk about "us" instead?
Interesting point. The people I've known with diagnosed mental illness actually like separating themselves from the rest of the world, though. That's part of why they have trouble functioning within society on their own.
koan;771970 wrote: Yes, creating appearances is part of it. They have another downtown issue though, in that they've made promises to land developers who built condos in the heart of the downtown eastside believing that the government was going to relocate all the junkies and hard to house. That hasn't happened and there are a lot of unhappy condo owners. I believe the plan was to keep pushing them further down Hasting St, away from the downtown area. So Commercial Ave will go from funky to junkie. DERA is trying to stop the political push.
Interesting point. The people I've known with diagnosed mental illness actually like separating themselves from the rest of the world, though. That's part of why they have trouble functioning within society on their own.
Mea culpa too sometimes, Bryn, so my apologies for the holier-than-thou tone of my post, perhaps I was trying to remind myself too.
Carolly...I do know what you mean, and I think back to the What is God Saying thread and then I'm reminded of Footprints again and then I think there is always a blessing hidden within our dark times :-4 :-6
I worked for a Mind project for nine years, which, amongst other things, would link volunteers with people who were experiencing mental ill health. We witnessed some amazing and unexpected transformations both in the volunteers and the people they were linked with...a deepening understanding and acceptance of each other as fellow human beings. Okay, there were also links that didn't work so well, but those that did were an inspiration. So, Koan, I'm unsure as to whether people who are diagnosed with a mental health problem actually like separating themselves from the rest of the world, though some might, or whether it is that most feel they don't have a lot of choice.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
I suppose its a matter of whether you think things happen to you or as a result of you. There have been a number of times when I would have had agreement if I'd decided to say I was a victim but the only way to move past it was to recognise my power to change my reaction.
I'm not implying that mentally ill people can will away their disorders but a lot can be overcome with the right attitude. That's why facilities to help them reason and learn life skills are important.
I read in "The Know It All" that the "great Greek orator Demosthenes suffered from a speech defect... he stammered and had terrible pronunciation - but he overcame it by speaking with pebbles in his mouth." Sometimes what seems to be a weakness can end up being a strength. I don't doubt that I've been on the edge of insanity more than once. I don't mind using the us and them vocabulary because part of what kept me from going over was not wanting to be one of "them".
koan;772106 wrote: I suppose its a matter of whether you think things happen to you or as a result of you. There have been a number of times when I would have had agreement if I'd decided to say I was a victim but the only way to move past it was to recognise my power to change my reaction.
I'm not implying that mentally ill people can will away their disorders but a lot can be overcome with the right attitude. That's why facilities to help them reason and learn life skills are important.
I read in "The Know It All" that the "great Greek orator Demosthenes suffered from a speech defect... he stammered and had terrible pronunciation - but he overcame it by speaking with pebbles in his mouth." Sometimes what seems to be a weakness can end up being a strength. I don't doubt that I've been on the edge of insanity more than once. I don't mind using the us and them vocabulary because part of what kept me from going over was not wanting to be one of "them".
Good points, Koan, you may well be right.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Interesting point. The people I've known with diagnosed mental illness actually like separating themselves from the rest of the world, though. That's part of why they have trouble functioning within society on their own.
Is it that they want to separate themselves from society and this causes them to have trouble functioning or do they, as I've always assumed, have trouble functioning within society causing them to separate themselves?
theia;772092 wrote: Mea culpa too sometimes, Bryn, so my apologies for the holier-than-thou tone of my post, perhaps I was trying to remind myself too.
Carolly...I do know what you mean, and I think back to the What is God Saying thread and then I'm reminded of Footprints again and then I think there is always a blessing hidden within our dark times :-4 :-6
.One day theia I will tell you the story of what "Footprints" did for me and how I found it.Wonderful words and its so sad that the lady who wrote that lost all rights to it.
Women are bitchy and predictable ...men are not and that's the key to knowing the truth.
that the "great Greek orator Demosthenes suffered from a speech defect... he stammered and had terrible pronunciation - but he overcame it by speaking with pebbles in his mouth." Sometimes what seems to be a weakness can end up being a strength. I don't doubt that I've been on the edge of insanity more than once. I don't mind using the us and them vocabulary because part of what kept me from going over was not wanting to be one of "them".
