The Terms of Membership

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:12 am

It seems to me that it has been a while since we've had a religious discussion.

A recent encounter with a person who is religious and a regular church goer, got me thinking about the 'job description' and 'terms of membership' that go along with being a religious member. Like, is there one? And, if so, are its members monitored in any way? :-6

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:42 am

Might that not depend entirely on the wing of the denomination of the religion in question? I'm sure we could give instances but they'd be scratching the surface. Where would you like to scratch?

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:44 am

spot;802527 wrote: Might that not depend entirely on the wing of the denomination of the religion in question? I'm sure we could give instances but they'd be scratching the surface. Where would you like to scratch?

Oh yeah :-5 I posted it under general. Do you mind moving it to Christianity for me? :-6

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:54 am

Do I look like some namby-pamby turn-the-cheek do-gooder?????

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 am

spot;802548 wrote: Do I look like some namby-pamby turn-the-cheek do-gooder?????

:wah::wah: Would you do it for me if I pretended to be a walrus sat on your toilet talking to you ..........................................................

:D

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 am

If your asking if there's folks who come to my house to make sure I'm living in the manners a Southern Baptist should, then nope! The way you become a member of a church is to be baptized into the church, or have a letter of movement, but this has to be from a church of the same "belief". You can move from one southern baptist church to another with a letter. But you cannot say come from a methodist into baptist without being baptized.

Hope that answered some of your questions. :-6

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:24 am

Sheryl, surely that's conditionally baptised - "If it turns out that the Lord doesn't regard you as baptised so far then I baptise you...". The one thing every denomination of Christianity agrees on is that nobody can ever be genuinely baptised in the eyes of the Lord twice over. I have never met a Christian yet who didn't agree that anyone on the planet, Christian or Buddhist or Muslim or Atheist, could successfully baptise someone into the Christian faith if the person being baptised were in the right state of grace to receive the sacrament. Re-baptising other than conditionally seems a very unlikely thing for any Minister to attempt.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:05 pm

I don't know all the details. I just know what I've observed, and what I remember being told when I was baptized which was years ago.

Here's a linky for you spot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_B ... Convention

Scrutinize away!

But it looks like the baptism part is up for debate.

http://www.baptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=23674

Personally no I don't baptism should be required to get to heaven. I think the important part is just being saved. But that's a whole nother debate.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:08 pm

I was baptized as a baby into the Methodist church by my grandfather who was a Methodist minister. When my parents joined the Church of Christ I was again baptized into that church when I was about 12 years old.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:12 pm

I need to add that the Church of Christ didn't recognize the Methodist baptism. The Church of Christ believes that you must be submerged and personally choose to be baptized. On another note, they pressured the hell out of you to get baptized.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:32 pm

Okay - sorry my OP was a little vague.

Most of my friends are religious and regular church-goers (although I am not myself), they are wonderful, kind people who I trust, and am honored to call them my friends.

I recently had the misfortune of encountering someone who is also a regular church-goer, but is a despicable person. I fail to understand how she could claim to be under gods umbrella. Hence my question. Is there standards?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:00 pm

:wah: Sorry Pheasy, you came across what I call the "Sunday" Christian. Nice as can be in church, but wouldn't spit on you to put out a fire any other day of the week. They exist, but it's not what we are all about.

Post by **jones jones** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:02 pm

ThePheasant;802683 wrote: Okay - sorry my OP was a little vague.

Most of my friends are religious and regular church-goers (although I am not myself), they are wonderful, kind people who I trust, and am honored to call them my friends.

I recently had the misfortune of encountering someone who is also a regular church-goer, but is a despicable person. I fail to understand how she could claim to be under gods umbrella. Hence my question. Is there standards?

in my experience miss pheasant ... and let me say at the outset that i am an atheist ... i have found that many people use christianity AND the church for their own purposes ...

many christians simply assume that because they believe in their god and their bible they are good honest trustworthy people whose integrity cannot and should not be doubted ....

i have certain issues with present day christians and their churches and i have found that the so called "organised" religions are not what they are cracked up to be ...

there is a so called charismatic church near my home who have a large billboard outside their church ... which is a vast and very wealthy church i might add ... and recently on this billboard they proclaimed that "six people had been raised from the dead" ...

even the saviour they profess to follow .. jesus of nazareth ... never in his time raised that many people from the dead ..

having said all the above it is their democratic and constitutional right to believe in and to worship whatever god and saviour they like ...

i only wish they wouldn't keep trying to convert me ...

i've never ever seen an atheist standing on the street corner urging passersby NOT to believe in the christian god or bible!

Jj

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:08 pm

I speak here on behalf of the Methodist community of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Most Methodists would disagree with my comments.

There's a major difference between the Methodist community here and that in the USA, in that John Wesley specifically ordained Francis Asbury with authority to create Bishops in the United States, thereby founding a Christian denomination. In contrast, here, he fought for decades to keep Methodism as a "Society" within the Church of England, refusing to allow the Society to meet at the same time on Sundays as the Church of England's services so as not to prevent any of the Methodist membership from attending their parish church services.

So, within this Society, he maintained draconian rules of membership. Every Quarter the Society considered the behaviour of every member and handed out a Class Ticket showing them to be members in good standing. Periodic visits by John Wesley himself would purge membership lists by half overnight as he enquired and searched the souls of those he was inspecting. Those membership Class Tickets still exist, they're still given out (or not!) and they still depend (both in theory and in practice) on the Church Council's decision with respect to all the individuals who attend that church. The main difference between now and the 18th century is that a church doesn't face the terrifying prospect of a visit by John Wesley and the invariable decimation of the ranks which it brought.

After John Wesley died - possibly even just before - the rule on service times was relaxed, and with Wesley gone the authority of the Society was vested in an annual Connexional Meeting which appointed Ministers, Superintendent Ministers and officers of the Conference. We still have no Bishops. By 1820 the argument against musical instruments in services had been won by the musicians at the cost of splitting the church in two. Those divided again. The 19th century through until 1932 was a period of fragmentation which left Methodism with very powerful roots in different traditions, from primitive evangelists through to churches almost indistinguishable from High Anglican. Well, Anglican anyway. When they came together at the Uniting Conference they built a broad church which could never have come into being in any other way and the last 75 years have been astonishing in consequence.

We may, soon, re-merge back into Anglicanism and no longer be a Church. In my mind it's going back to the ideal John Wesley started with.

Anyway, that's what we do in terms of ordering our membership here. It's down to the senior committee members to interpret the Spirit and hand out tickets.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:49 am

Sheryl;802712 wrote: :wah: Sorry Pheasy, you came across what I call the "Sunday" Christian. Nice as can be in church, but wouldn't spit on you to put out a fire any other day of the week. They exist, but it's not what we are all about.

When I think of her this image comes to mind :wah::wah:

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:21 pm

Pheasy:-6

If we were to list, in detail, the terms of membership that Wesley's visits would seem like a small exercise. No human being is perfect, so all of us would be turfed out. Jesus spent most of his ministry associating with the low classes, the tax collectors, sinners, prostitutes etc. He welcomes all who will come.

In the Anglican church of Canada if you are baptized, soon to change, than you can be accepted as a member. Even in the Eucharist we now invite anyone who wishes, to partake. It is time that we let God be the judge and that we as Christians simply present the grace of God.

Of course we all make mistakes. I hate the word sin because it has become virtually meaningless in our present society. We all do things that separate us from the love of God and the love of our fellow man. That is what is wrong with us.

Shalom

Ted:-6

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:49 pm

spot;802726 wrote: I speak here on behalf of the Methodist community of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Most Methodists would disagree with my comments.

There's a major difference between the Methodist community here and that in the USA, in that John Wesley specifically ordained Francis Asbury with authority to create Bishops in the United States, thereby founding a Christian denomination. In contrast, here, he fought for decades to keep Methodism as a "Society" within the Church of England, refusing to allow the Society to meet at the same time on Sundays as the Church of England's services so as not to prevent any of the Methodist membership from attending their parish church services.

So, within this Society, he maintained draconian rules of membership. Every Quarter the Society considered the behaviour of every member and handed out a Class Ticket showing them to be members in good standing. Periodic visits by John Wesley himself would purge membership lists by half overnight as he enquired and searched the souls of those he was inspecting. Those membership Class Tickets still exist, they're still given out (or not!) and they still depend (both in theory and in practice) on the Church Council's decision with respect to all the individuals who attend that church. The main difference between now and the 18th century is that a church doesn't face the terrifying prospect of a visit by John Wesley and the invariable decimation of the ranks which it brought.

After John Wesley died - possibly even just before - the rule on service times was relaxed, and with Wesley gone the authority of the Society was vested in an annual Connexional Meeting which appointed Ministers, Superintendent Ministers and officers of the Conference. We still have no Bishops. By 1820 the argument against musical instruments in services had been won by the musicians at the cost of splitting the church in two. Those divided again. The 19th century through until 1932 was a period of fragmentation which left Methodism with very powerful roots in different traditions, from primitive evangelists through to churches almost indistinguishable from High Anglican. Well, Anglican anyway. When they came together at the Uniting Conference they built a broad church which could never have come into being in any other way and the last 75 years have been astonishing in consequence.

We may, soon, re-merge back into Anglicanism and no longer be a Church. In my mind it's going back to the ideal John Wesley started with.

Anyway, that's what we do in terms of ordering our membership here. It's down to the senior committee members to interpret the Spirit and hand out tickets.

OMG Spot, that explains a lot. Takes me back to the grim days of my Sydney "Church of England" childhood experiences. The Diocese of Sydney, alone of all the Anglican Dioceses of Australia, is almost totally methodist still. For me it was frightening, alienating, and I remember people being 'found wanting' and voted out of the fold. I only found an Anglican spiritual home outside that city. Thank you for the clarification.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:25 am

If God had a face what would it look like

And would you want to see

If seeing meant that you would have to believe

In things like heaven and in jesus and the saints and all the prophets

Joan Osbourne

american parable · Post by **american parable** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:10 pm

The only baptism that really matters is a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Believe the gospel: Jesus died for the sins of the world, was buried and rose again to eternal life. Faith + nothing.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:25 pm

american:-6

That is of course, one interpretation of the death of Jesus. There are others as well.

Shalom

Ted:-6