Spelling and Grammar

[spot]

This is a useful thread.

We're enjoined to avoid breaking the tempo of other threads with comments on poor spelling or questionable grammar. Such behavior would be diversionary to the main thrust of the thread.

Nevertheless, the extent of such aberrations is quite extraordinary, totally unexpected and interesting in its own right.

Notable instances may be raised in this thread, where comment will be on topic and discussion welcomed.

Our initial instance, brought to the foreground by lady cop, is the use of "wone" for won, in relation to lottery games. Admittedly, the error occurs nowhere on Forum Garden, but it is on a page hyperlinked from someone's sig and as such is, apparently, an indication of a spammer at work in our midst. Not only are spelling and grammar mistakes anathema, but hyperlinks to pages containing them are also.

Is it speed-typing that's to blame? Public schooling? Television? Bloody-mindedness? An expression of personal idiosyncrasy? Parental neglect?

This is a non-judgmental thread, in terms of the posters who are quoted. It is, however, unrelenting in its search for accuracy and felicity. Post soon, and post often.

[MicahLorain]

i hope i speld this rite as alot of werds make me cyko. assooming i am kerrect in my spelling ill rest at eaze. letz hope uthers will ketch on as we uttempt to rid the werld of pour spellurs. let me be ferst to joyne in the krusaide.

[spot]

Thank you, Brother MicahLorain. I can hear the wildfire starting to roar already. I note in passing that "speld" is considered old-fashioned, in my dictionary, but still just useable.

May I invite our correspondents to google "unpresupposing" and "unprepossing", and wonder to themselves - or, indeed, to the rest of us - what exactly our glorious language is coming to?

[Peg]

A lot of spelling and grammar mistakes make me crazy, but as long as I can understand what the poster is trying to say, I don't say anything about it. Not only is it distracting from the topic when someone points it out, it makes the garden look unfriendly.

[lady cop]

oh god i hate bringing this back up.....caused quite a debate. but then again, debate is good. my only point throughout was that if you are writing a resume or legal document, you should spell it right for credibility if nothing else. if you can't spell cat without being spotted the c and the t , then i am going to make a judgement about hiring you. sorry.spelling and grammar ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page )

lady cop

[spot]

lady cop wrote: oh god i hate bringing this back up.....caused quite a debate. but then again, debate is good. my only point throughout was that if you are writing a resume or legal document, you should spell it right for credibility if nothing else. Indeed. Quite so. Anyone failing to get a second, and qualified, opinion about a resume or legal document would be foolhardy in the extreme. I'm not exactly sure how that relates to "wone" in a sig-hyperlinked external page qualifying its author as a spammer, that's all.

I suspect we'd be happier if I went back on your ignore list.

[lady cop]

spot wrote: Indeed. Quite so. Anyone failing to get a second, and qualified, opinion about a resume or legal document would be foolhardy in the extreme. I'm not exactly sure how that relates to "wone" in a sig qualifying its author as a spammer, that's all.



I suspect we'd be happier if I went back on your ignore list.oh, you're still on my ignore list spot. when i choose to ignore you. as to lotto, you don't know the background...even you may understand this...he posted a bunch of spam one day. i deleted ONE of his blatant spam posts. at which point he advocated the shooting of police officers!!!! i think even you could understand why i am hostile. shoot police because the spammer had a thread deleted. ok. he's a moron. .....you may not like me, but i don't think you would call for me being shot.

[spot]

lady cop wrote: at which point he advocated the shooting of police officers!!!! i think even you could understand why i am hostile. shoot police because the spammer had a thread deleted. ok. Doesn't advocating the shooting of police officers break an ordinance? I thought we were a zero tolerance zone.

If he's banned, he's banned. If he's a poster, he's a poster. You think there's a half-way house where he's fair game for the occasional power-drop whenever there's a heavyweight about who's in a bad mood?

[spot]

lady cop wrote: you may not like me, but i don't think you would call for me being shot.I can't imagine where you get the idea from that I don't like you, lady. We even have a pint lined up when you next get to England, last I heard. I've never so much as raised my voice in your direction. For the record, I have never called for, do not and will never call for, the shooting of anyone, least of all an officer of the law. I would hope, if I saw someone about to be shot, that I'd stand in the way, whoever they were. Though one can never tell, until after it happens.

[spot]

lady cop wrote: i have no idea what you mean here...it's me in a bad mood? he's not banned. i would have hoped you could have simply said you don't agree with the shooting of cops. no such luck.It isn't apparent from the state of the thread, but you only added the final sentence about "i don't think you would call for me being shot" after I had typed my first reply. My first act on seeing the added text to your post was to make a second response specific to it. Perhaps if you post-and-leave rather than post-and-edit, clarity might ensue.

[lady cop]

nobody gets banned around here, although i may be one of the first. i am going to say what i think. see you for a pint Spot.

[BabyRider]

WHOOO DAWGIE!!! Another "spelling" thread. My tongue hurts.

[spot]

Don't feel constrained to just Forum Garden posts, BabyRider. If you see something outside on the ground that sparkles, pick it up and put it here for us to admire.

[BabyRider]

That's funny spot, I frequent a few forums that are all bikers, and holy sh*t, are those guys some AWFUL spellers!

(Thank god I frequent more than one, if any end up here, they won't know which one I am talking about) :yh_rotfl

[Clint]

I’m feeling a little paranoid here. Spot, you use the language with such precision I’m actually intimidated by it. It has taken some time reading what you post to see that some of my frustration with you is actually jealousy. I would love to be able to handle words the way you do.

I come here a little challenged. I was not diagnosed with dyslexia when I was a child as I should have been. I struggled to get through school. I didn’t learn to spell very well then and I have continued to struggle with it since. I’m very thankful for spell checkers.

I’ve learned that some famous authors, such as Hemmingway, were terrible spellers. It didn’t stop them form expressing themselves in writing and giving us all enjoyment.

I hope that in this thread you will appreciate the fact that people are joining in the discussions here with valuable thoughts. They may not express those thoughts as well as those of you who are so wonderfully gifted but they still may have valuable things to say.

I have made spelling and grammer errors here in the past and they have been pointed out with extreme kindness. I hope that doesn’t change.

[spot]

Clint, there isn't a post I make here that I don't read three times first, to find any flaws. I'd be lost without my spellchecker. Nobody would realize that you think you have a problem, just from reading what you write. It may be that, like me, you're more careful before you send your posts than the majority.

I suspect that I bury any sarcastic hints too deeply for them to show, but this entire thread is solely about me calling lady cop out, and she knows that. I may, eventually, use the thread to drop the odd grammatical howler in, but so far it's just been a bit of a barney between her and me that has nothing to do with spelling or grammar.

If I were in your place, I'd be darned frustrated with Spot's postings too. I'm not surprised that I raise a storm now and then. I do think it's healthy that such a wide range of opinions can end up in one thread, and I'm more than happy to read criticism.

[Clint]

spot wrote: Clint, there isn't a post I make here that I don't read three times first, to find any flaws. I'd be lost without my spellchecker. Nobody would realize that you think you have a problem, just from reading what you write. It may be that, like me, you're more careful before you send your posts than the majority.

I suspect that I bury any sacastic hints too deeply for them to show, but this entire thread is solely about me calling lady cop out, and she knows that. I may, eventually, use the thread to drop the odd grammatical howler in, but so far it's just been a bit of a barney between her and me that has nothing to do with spelling or grammar.

If I were in your place, I'd be darned frustrated with Spot's postings too. I'm not surprised that I raise a storm now and then. I do think it's healthy that such a wide range of opinions can end up in one thread, and I'm more than happy to read criticism.
Fair enough.

I didn’t realize this was between you and LC.

Have fun.

[BabyRider]

Clint wrote:

I didn’t realize this was between you and LC.

It's not.



If it had been done via PM, it would be, but it's here in public, for everyone to see.



I remember not too long ago members getting "called out" for doing this very thing.

[abbey]

I often wonder if our US and Canadian members think us Brits can't spell.:wah:

[Peg]

I have made spelling and grammer errors here in the past and they have been pointed out with extreme kindness. I hope that doesn’t change


But why should they be pointed out at all? Does it make the person who pointed it out think they are brighter?

[spot]

Far Rider wrote: Spot, I have to agree with Clint here, your big words confuse the heck out of me.That's not "big words", Far Rider, I use shorter words than most people. I expect what confuses you most, when you read what I write, is the punctuation. There's no reason at all why any vocabulary should be intimidating. If there happens to be one word or two in an entire post that isn't immediately obvious, then (assuming they're spelled correctly and used accurately) any online dictionary would clear up the confusion within seconds. I don't know of a lookup site that can interpret punctuation, though. I write exactly as I speak. In speaking, I use intonation to convey the shape of my ideas. In writing, the stop comma shriek quote query convention carries the same burden. And you know what? I'm just as boring in real life as I am online.

[spot]

lady cop wrote: nobody gets banned around hereThat may be an interesting use of the word "banned" with which I'm unacquainted, perhaps. Being stuck in a position where reading is allowed but writing is forbidden has a Soviet tinge to it. Actually having one's entire input deleted so that nobody may read what you wrote in the past goes beyond Soviet into Orwellian.

[Peg]

There's an English professor who comes into the club where I work. It drives him crazy when people end a sentence in a preposition or they use double negatives in a sentence. Of course, being me, I do it on purpose just to watch him cringe. :wah:

[lady cop]

spot wrote: That may be an interesting use of the word "banned" with which I'm unacquainted, perhaps. Being stuck in a position where reading is allowed but writing is forbidden has a Soviet tinge to it. Actually having one's entire input deleted so that nobody may read what you wrote in the past goes beyond Soviet into Orwellian.but what does that have to do with FG? if in fact a person has been banned from posting, which is rare, the transgression had to be quite serious. the forum has to have some guidelines for behaviour. no ad hominem attacks, no posting of personal info and the like. we may get a bit snippy, but there are lines in the sand. oh god, now you're going to nitpick me to death again. AGGHHHHHH!!

[gmc]

Methinks people worry too much about spelling. English is a live language and arguably one of the most eclectic in the world that just invents words when needed telephone and television being two of the most obvious.

Don't know about the states but texting is having a noticeable effect on everyday english with headlines like gr8 g8 events today (OK I made that one up but you get my drift)

Words come and go-how many of you know what clinker is yet used to be the first thing anyone did was out it in the bin when they got up- and change their meaning-who here would claim to be gay rather than ina good mood- so long as people understand what you mean does it matter?

More seriously the nuances between US and UK usage causes friction. It's no fun taking the mick out of americans as they always think you are being serious.

I spll, I type it's the two together I find difficult.

posted by far rider

I dont give a hillbilly crap about my spelling, really I dont. Grammer? Whats that?




Being a hillbilly I would have thought grammar was your mothers mother, assuming like most americans you can't pronounce the letter r properly :yh_rotfl

[spot]

lady cop wrote: but what does that have to do with FG? if in fact a person has been banned from posting, which is rare, the transgression had to be quite serious. the forum has to have some guidelines for behaviour. no ad hominem attacks, no posting of personal info and the like. we may get a bit snippy, but there are lines in the sand. oh god, now you're going to nitpick me to death again. AGGHHHHHH!!This isn't nitpicking in the slightest, Lady. You wrote "nobody gets banned around here", I queried that, saying I'd seen the entire input of at least one poster deleted, and asking what on earth "banned" meant in your lexicon. What does that have to do with FG? It's on FG that it happened. "a person has been banned from posting, which is rare" suggests that bans do actually occur, which is all I suggested. "nobody gets banned around here" is obviously wrong. Besides, I surely can't nitpick you to death when you don't read my posts.

[Peg]

When I see poor spelling, grammar, word usage, etc., I don't get mad at the poster. I get mad at a learning system that obviously failed someone. I get mad at a system that will pass kids that obviously should not have passed. How many kids graduate each year that cannot read past a fourth grade level?

[gmc]

posted by peg

When I see poor spelling, grammar, word usage, etc., I don't get mad at the poster. I get mad at a learning system that obviously failed someone. I get mad at a system that will pass kids that obviously should not have passed. How many kids graduate each year that cannot read past a fourth grade level?


I assume

a) they can't type.

b) They're american :sneaky: ( colour me sarky)

c) they will get better with practice.

I spend all day writing reports and reading stuff, it's very easy to get out of the habit of expressing yourself and spelling properly unless you are constantly reading and writing. It's a skill not a sign of intelligence. I have two relatives who are dyslexic having problems at school because of teachers that assume they are just not trying.

One of them now uses a word processor with red background amd different coloured letters-seems to work for him it's just a bit painful to look at, but the school insist on black ink white paper-you tell me who's the thick one there.

posted by peg

There's an English professor who comes into the club where I work. It drives him crazy when people end a sentence in a preposition or they use double negatives in a sentence. Of course, being me, I do it on purpose just to watch him cringe




Do you mean he is someone who teaches english or he is a professor who comes from England?

Tell him not to be so pedantic.

[minks]

A little Canadian input here

-in general text conversation, larger words hold up the flow of reading... (think technical and dry not offensive, just slower to read)

-in general text conversation misspelled words hold up the flow of reading. (think looking twice at the word to get what it is when you are used to proper spelling)

So what I think about it all is how you see this format, is it formal wording, grammer, spelling etc. Then of course your going to be frustrated by some of us who make the errors.

If your more casual about it your going to see it as no big deal.

Also some of us sneak in here and bang off posts quickly due to time constraints so our grammer and spelling is far from text book. And others we may not know their situation with disorders that affect this.

And as for the Canadian perception of it all...We don't think either the americans or brits spell funny, we grew up knowing both ways we want to be everyones good neighbor/neigbour, despite the color/colour of your flag.

Tolerance guys we ought to just tolerate the way others do "text"

[Jives]

spot wrote: aberrations anathema,


OK Spot, we all get it that you're intelligent, but you can drop the depressing, discombobulated, distressing, debilitating, and generally depricating discourse on vocabulary.

Is it speed-typing that's to blame? Public schooling? Television? Bloody-mindedness? An expression of personal idiosyncrasy? Parental neglect?


None of the above...I have Rheumatoid Arthritus which makes typing this answer an exercise in pain. So please forgive me any malicious malfunctions of my massively maligned metacarpals.

[spot]

Jives wrote: OK Spot, we all get it that you're intelligent, but you can drop the depressing, discombobulated, distressing, debilitating, and generally depricating discourse on vocabulary.If none of us took these poor frightened words out of their cage and walked them in the park, they'd fade to nothing. We could try adopt-an-idea week as an excuse. A week of alliteration, a week of deliberately mixed metaphor. We could be maddening.

Jives wrote: None of the above...I have Rheumatoid Arthritus which makes typing this answer an exercise in pain. So please forgive me any malicious malfunctions of my massively maligned metacarpals. ;)Yay! Yes, just like that.

It's a bitch of a condition. My mom ended up bedbound by it, I'm fighting the onset, I've seen where it leads and you sound a long way further up the track than I am. I bet exact words can shorten messages, even if they're polysyllabic.

[Jives]

spot wrote: polysyllabic.


Hey! You can't talk to me like that you sombre, sonorous, cynical, sedentary, seditious, sullen excuse for a grammarian!

[spot]

Jives wrote: Hey! You can't talk to me like that you sombre, sonorous, cynical, sedentary, seditious, sullen excuse for a grammarian!How dare you call me sonorous!

[Jives]

ROFL! Stop! Stop! You're killin' me, Spot! :wah:

[spot]

gmc wrote: More seriously the nuances between US and UK usage causes friction.I don't know about friction, but I saw a poem yesterday that rhymed "route" with "about". It works in the US and Scotland, but not in England.

Go on, I can see I need to explain that to at least a few, even though you've got it already...

Pronunciations: Root, as in the underground bit of trees, Rout, as in "the skirmish turned into a rout".

US: rout, about. England: root, about. Clang. Scotland: root, aboot.

[spot]

gmc wrote: One of them now uses a word processor with red background amd different coloured letters-seems to work for him it's just a bit painful to look at, but the school insist on black ink white paper-you tell me who's the thick one there.If he's using a Microsoft Operating System no older than Windows 2000, many color printer configuration pages have a tickbox for printing all colors as black, and to ignore the background color. Color Management - Monochrome, I can see on mine. Whatever he sees on the screen should come out the way everyone else's does, if he adjusts those. B&W printers tend to default to that state, in my experience.

[Jives]

spot wrote: Scotland: root, aboot.


What the Heck are you talking aboot?!!

OH! Hahahahahaa...I couldn't help myself on that one!:D

[minks]

ahaha us canadians get accused of saying aboot, personally I have no idea what they are talking about, it rhymes with out. Crikey.

[spot]

minks wrote: ahaha us canadians get accused of saying aboot, personally I have no idea what they are talking about, it rhymes with out. Crikey.Well, yes, you're making my point quite well there. One of the most famous poems to come out of Canada before the war, "The Deciding Rubber" by Nancy Cameron, ends one verse thus:

He led a club, his longest suit

and found his mother had run out.

[minks]

cross culture confusion, that is what Canadian Content stands for ahahahahaha

[gmc]

posted by spot

If he's using a Microsoft Operating System no older than Windows 2000, many color printer configuration pages have a tickbox for printing all colors as black, and to ignore the background color. Color Management - Monochrome, I can see on mine. Whatever he sees on the screen should come out the way everyone else's does, if he adjusts those. B&W printers tend to default to that state, in my experience.


What I meant was the school won't let him use different coloured paper and ink.exams are written, ironically when he leaves school and start using a word processor all the time he will be O.k. In the meantime he gets discouraged because he gets treated as thick because he can't read and write in the conventional way. Being able to write is important but realistically he will be using a word processor not pen and ink no matter what job he gets you would thinik in this day and age a bit of tolerance could be expected not intellectual fascism.

Actually my handwriting is dreadful and I have advanced exams to take that require three hours of writing, since I use a word processor all the time I am way of out of practice and boy do I resent having to practice exam technigue rather than study the material.