Trooper fired for kicking police dog wants his job back

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Trooper fired for kicking police dog wants job back

By Dan Kane | McClatchy-Tribune





Digg Del.icio.us Facebook Fark Google Newsvine Reddit Yahoo Print Reprints Post comment Text size: RALEIGH, N.C. - Dog handlers for the North Carolina State Highway Patrol have stunned dogs with tasers, swung them by their leashes until they became airborne and hit them with plastic bottles full of pebbles.

None of that was an issue until a trooper used his cell phone to record a video of a sergeant kicking his police dog repeatedly while it was leashed to a loading dock, its hind legs just touching the ground. The video was made public for the first time Monday, and it shows Sgt. Charles L. Jones kicking Ricoh, a 7-year-old Belgian Malinois, five times, causing the dog to swing as much as two feet under the loading dock.

Jones, a 14-year patrol member, was fired last September after the incident became public. Now he is trying to win back his job at a hearing before a state administrative judge.

Police dogs can be lethal weapons, and Jones contends that training them to obey commands can be a rough business. He argues that once his tactics were recorded on video, there was no way public officials from the governor on down would acknowledge that they were accepted practice.





"You cannot cite any training, any policy, any protocol that Sgt. Jones has violated — because there isn't any," said Jones' attorney, Jack O'Hale, as he questioned the man who upheld Jones' dismissal, North Carolina Crime Control and Public Safety Secretary Bryan Beatty.

Beatty said Jones had acted inhumanely to the dog by kicking him and leaving him suspended from the dock rail, even after the dog had complied with Jones' order. There may not be a policy specifically addressing Jones' behavior, but Beatty said it was clearly abuse to him.

"I think if you saw it, you would recognize it," Beatty testified.

The state presented its case against Jones on Monday, recounting the events leading up to his dismissal. The incident on Aug. 8 at the patrol's training facility in Raleigh began with Ricoh's unwillingness to let go of a piece of fire hose, which to him was a toy.

Trooper Raymond Herndon testified that Jones had first swung Ricoh off the ground by his leash. It's a tactic known by police dog trainers as "helicoptering." Ricoh still would not release the toy.

That's when Jones took the dog to the loading dock and tied the leash to the rail. Herndon said he began recording Jones with the cell phone because he was concerned about what Jones was doing to the dog. The cell phone could only record 15 seconds at a time, so Herndon made two recordings.

The first video shows Jones, in a white T-shirt and black pants, tying the leash to the rail. Ricoh is up on his hind legs, his back to the camera. Jones then jumps off the dock and kicks the dog at least five times. Jones can be heard yelling "los, los, los," a command for the dog to release the toy.

The second video shows the dog still tied to the rail, as Jones walks around him, picks up the toy and then walks out of the camera frame.

Herndon testified that Jones went to his patrol car to put the toy inside. Jones then released the dog.

Herndon said that he did not think that Jones intended to hurt Ricoh, who was not seriously injured. An examination three weeks later showed no injuries.

"I questioned the method, not his intent — ever," Herndon testified.

Herndon also said that Jones had provided some of the best training that Herndon had received.

O'Hale asked Herndon to notice Ricoh more closely in the second video. Ricoh appeared to be wagging his tail and his head followed Jones.

"I think he wanted to go with [Jones]," Herndon testified.

Herndon showed the video to other troopers, and eventually Capt. Ken Castelloe, then the internal affairs director, learned of the incident. He initially recommended no more than a three-day suspension without pay.

But then the case became public. Beatty testified that he learned about the incident after the patrol's public information officer, Lt. Everett Clendenin, told him he had fielded media inquiries. The governor's office quickly asked to see the video. They were "shocked," Castelloe said.

Beatty testified that Gov. Mike Easley's staff made him aware that Easley wanted Jones dismissed for abusing the dog. Beatty also requested a criminal investigation into possible animal abuse after conferring with one of Easley's legal staff, Reuben Young. That investigation is ongoing.

Castelloe took a second look at the incident. This time, he said he reviewed both videos. He said the second video was more troubling because it showed Jones leaving the dog tied up after he had obeyed the order and dropped the toy. Castelloe then recommended that Jones be fired.

Lt. Col. C.E. Lockley accepted Castelloe's recommendation, and fired Jones. But in a sworn deposition released earlier this month, Lockley said he did so only because of pressure from the governor's office.

At the time, former Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick admitted to being involved in an illegal dog fighting ring, and the patrol was reeling from two high-profile cases of trooper misconduct.

Castelloe and Beatty testified Monday that they felt no pressure from Easley or his top aides. But they struggled to explain how Jones had crossed the line.

One by one, O'Hale asked Beatty about several other measures trainers had used on police dogs. Beatty declined to say whether they were acceptable practices. All, he said, are under review.

[Redtail]

It's against the law, so the cop should be prosecuted as well as fired.

[Redtail]

fuzzy butt;854039 wrote: hmmm I'll reserve my judgement on this one.


why? If you disagree, I may learn something I hadn't thought of...........

[hoppy]

Training can be tough on trainees. Police dogs have to be tough, obedient and vicious when needed. The training has to be tough too.

Works the same on soldiers. You don't get tough, efficient fighting men by holding tea parties and tucking them in at night. Two of my sons went through ranger training. They would be left in a desert or jungle with i canteen of water, no food, their packs and rifles but only blank cartridges, for a week. My son, being the inventive type, took the blank adapter off his rifle, loaded a blank cartridge, dropped a section of cleaning rod down the bore and fired it like an arrow, killing a few javlinas and one deer at a waterhole they were able to find. Actually, he didn't invent this trick, just read about it long before he enlisted.

[Redtail]

hoppy;854078 wrote: Training can be tough on trainees. Police dogs have to be tough, obedient and vicious when needed. The training has to be tough too.

Works the same on soldiers. You don't get tough, efficient fighting men by holding tea parties and tucking them in at night. Two of my sons went through ranger training. They would be left in a desert or jungle with i canteen of water, no food, their packs and rifles but only blank cartridges, for a week. My son, being the inventive type, took the blank adapter off his rifle, loaded a blank cartridge, dropped a section of cleaning rod down the bore and fired it like an arrow, killing a few javlinas and one deer at a waterhole they were able to find. Actually, he didn't invent this trick, just read about it long before he enlisted.


good point......the military and law enforcement does have it's own set of rules, just some things should be kept between them I guess. Us civilians having no knowledge or consideration due to lack of knowledge get a bit freaked out when we see that behavior. Damn those video cameras

[Redtail]

fuzzy butt;854082 wrote: No it's not that . but we're not talking about poochy here, that goes and visits old peoples homes. ...they are trained for a certain job and of course it's an unsavoury job at that .But this guy has what ? how many years experience and I think I'd like to see the video and show it to a trainer that we have here to hear wha the ha sto say. I work with working sheep dogs and it's a harsh life for them so I want to reserve my judgement . There's cruelty and then there's training a dog to obey in extreme circumstances.


I have an austrailian sheep dog, his name is buddy, and he's sooooo smart, annoying, but smart. Trips me all the time since he's ALWAYS BY MY SIDE, GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Peg]

Dog handlers for the North Carolina State Highway Patrol have stunned dogs with tasers, swung them by their leashes until they became airborne and hit them with plastic bottles full of pebbles.


If any one of us did this, even in the name of "training", we would be prosecuted. The laws do not apply if you are a policeperson? :-5 Abuse is abuse even if you call it something else like training. :-5

[RedGlitter]

I can't believe the rubbish I am reading in this thread. The rules are different? Uh no...they're not. Militant trainers are not dog trainers. They are known for their cruelty and have no business being labeled trainers.

Thsi blockhheaded cop deserves to be canned and should never own an animal for the rest of his days. To think that you hav eto be a damn militant dog "trainer" to appreciate how to train a police dog is ridiculous. And as for them being "weapons" that's silly too. Police dogs who aren't killed after they're used up (because some dumbasses think that's appropriate) are retired to loving homes. With children even.

I don't mind hearing other sides but get your facts in order. And stop making excuses for the abuse of animals.

And I really don't care about the slaughter of javalinas and deer at the water hole. That had no place in this thread and it's not impressive that some fool thought to kill them with a trick he learned probably from a magazine just because he could.

[hoppy]

RG-And I really don't care about the slaughter of javalinas and deer at the water hole. That had no place in this thread and it's not impressive that some fool thought to kill them with a trick he learned probably from a magazine just because he could.

It was survival training. DUH! YOU try spending a week anywhere, without food and very little water. You'd be surprised at what you might eat. The javlinas and deer, along with some rattle snakes and assorted desert plants, were totally consumed.

[Redtail]

fuzzy butt;854164 wrote: He's a border or a kelpie or a blue or red heeler??


I'd have to dig up his papers to see..........he's mostly blackish greyish with a brown circle around one eye.

[Redtail]

Peg;854101 wrote: If any one of us did this, even in the name of "training", we would be prosecuted. The laws do not apply if you are a policeperson? :-5 Abuse is abuse even if you call it something else like training. :-5


Yup, I see no difference between beating that dog and pitting dogs to fight.......it's against the law and the cop should be arrested, not just fired.

[Redtail]

crap, sorry, purple habit hard to break.

[gmc]

Anyone that thinks you can train a dog by terrorising it is an idiot.

posted by fuzzy butt

No it's not that . but we're not talking about poochy here, that goes and visits old peoples homes. ...they are trained for a certain job and of course it's an unsavoury job at that .But this guy has what ? how many years experience and I think I'd like to see the video and show it to a trainer that we have here to hear wha the ha sto say. I work with working sheep dogs and it's a harsh life for them so I want to reserve my judgement . There's cruelty and then there's training a dog to obey in extreme circumstances.




Tell me do you find kicking a dog works? I don't believe for moment you would abuse a dog. You can get them to work in extreme situations but only of they trust you not because they are frightened of being punished.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

RedGlitter;854159 wrote: I can't believe the rubbish I am reading in this thread. The rules are different? Uh no...they're not. Militant trainers are not dog trainers. They are known for their cruelty and have no business being labeled trainers.

Thsi blockhheaded cop deserves to be canned and should never own an animal for the rest of his days. To think that you hav eto be a damn militant dog "trainer" to appreciate how to train a police dog is ridiculous. And as for them being "weapons" that's silly too. Police dogs who aren't killed after they're used up (because some dumbasses think that's appropriate) are retired to loving homes. With children even.

I don't mind hearing other sides but get your facts in order. And stop making excuses for the abuse of animals.

And I really don't care about the slaughter of javalinas and deer at the water hole. That had no place in this thread and it's not impressive that some fool thought to kill them with a trick he learned probably from a magazine just because he could.




I'm with Red 110 %... abuse is abuse what ever way you look at it . I'd like to see the guy lose his job at the very least, maybe next time he loses his cool it won't be an animal he takes his temper out on.:-5

[RedGlitter]

rjwould;854390 wrote: If he loses his job without some psychological help, he just might go postal.

Its funny, citizens treasure what the police and military provide them in safety, but when details emerge about the "how" its accomplished, they get all bent out of shape. If you want a police state, this is one of the many prices we will pay for it. What I find most appalling about the entire thing is what this mindset of militant training is doing to not only respect of life in general, but to families on both sides of the issue.

Excellent post....I agree wholeheartedly.


You agree to what RJ? That animal abuse is okay if the cops do it behind closed doors and you don't have to see it? Maybe we should abuse our retarded and elderly too.

[valerie]

These dogs aren't vicious. They are trained, working dogs. Some of

them might be "hard" and need corrections at times, but we have better methods

than this abuse. It's out and out abuse.

After all, we used to stick their little noses in it and spank them and

throw them outside. Archaic methods. This is no different.

I'm going to post the video, be forewarned (some of you) it is hard

to watch.

Abuse

[RedGlitter]

I saw a 200+ pound man against a dog that weighs about 45-50 pounds. Yeah, what a man. I guess that's America's Finest in action? He didn't seem all too bright in the video either.

Now I wonder who's going to say that was acceptable treatment toward that dog.

[YZGI]

Not being as big of a critter hugger as some of you, I watched the video and that to me is blatant abuse. Why would you kick a dog that you want to protect you?

[RedGlitter]

Oh poppycock RJ!

There is nothing wrong with being emotional OR compassionate OR intelligent enough to know how to properly train a dog. It's time we got off our backside and did something to stop the inhumanity shown to animals and kids- both defenseless creatures. If you want to just talk about it go ahead, there's room for people like you in this fight. But there is also a need for people like me and I will get off my @ss and continue to fight when I see wrongdoing.

[911]

OK, I have to tread lightly here.

Yes, this happens. It happens at every agency that has dogs. I'll say right quick, I do not approve this behavior.

I don't understand why it has to happen this way. They must obey the officer. If that toy is a suspects arm, the dog has to know that he has to let go when told to or serious injury will occur to the suspect. Watch any police video on TV that shows a dog grab a suspect and he has to be told at least twice to let go because they get so involved in what they are suppossed to do.

These babes ride around in the back of a car for eight hours and most of the time they are never needed. Anxiousness builds up. They get restless. They want a piece of you. Most officers will take their dog to a pond or lake and let them run and play to get some of the energy depleted. This dog is the officers backup.

Frankly, my dog protects me just fine and I've never had to train him to hurt anyone. He automatically jumps between me and anyone that comes to me. He barks and scares without me ever having to 'helicopter' him.

There is a guy that travel from agency to agency to train dogs. I can't remember where he is from, but he's not from the states. He teaches this method. And more. They are no longer allowed to let the dog interact with regular people. All they know is bad people now.

Again, I don't approve, but the dog has to know where, when and how much force to use and when to stop. I wish I could find a trainer that uses another method, I would recomend him to these agencies.

But, these dogs love their handlers and hate them. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[YZGI]

If ya mess with me I got a chihuahua that might just rip your toenail off..

[911]

Will he just trim them if you ask nicely? :wah:

[YZGI]

911;854691 wrote: Will he just trim them if you ask nicely? :wah:
Oh yeah, she is well trained. Well at least we think she is. She weighs less than 4 lbs. so if she pees in the house we never know it.:wah:

[valerie]

911;854675 wrote: OK, I have to tread lightly here.

Yes, this happens. It happens at every agency that has dogs. I'll say right quick, I do not approve this behavior.

I don't understand why it has to happen this way. They must obey the officer. If that toy is a suspects arm, the dog has to know that he has to let go when told to or serious injury will occur to the suspect. Watch any police video on TV that shows a dog grab a suspect and he has to be told at least twice to let go because they get so involved in what they are suppossed to do.

These babes ride around in the back of a car for eight hours and most of the time they are never needed. Anxiousness builds up. They get restless. They want a piece of you. Most officers will take their dog to a pond or lake and let them run and play to get some of the energy depleted. This dog is the officers backup.

Frankly, my dog protects me just fine and I've never had to train him to hurt anyone. He automatically jumps between me and anyone that comes to me. He barks and scares without me ever having to 'helicopter' him.

There is a guy that travel from agency to agency to train dogs. I can't remember where he is from, but he's not from the states. He teaches this method. And more. They are no longer allowed to let the dog interact with regular people. All they know is bad people now.

Again, I don't approve, but the dog has to know where, when and how much force to use and when to stop. I wish I could find a trainer that uses another method, I would recomend him to these agencies.

But, these dogs love their handlers and hate them. Six of one, half dozen of the other.


Respectfully, 911... some part of what you've seen just might be

the southern mentality towards animals, dogs in particular.

I know what you mean about telling the dogs twice, but I have also

seen dogs where once will suffice, and one of the very first things

you learn in dog training (or you SHOULD learn) is only give the

command ONCE. Multiple cries of "Sit" "I said SIT" "SIT, dammit"

only teach the dog he doesn't have to obey the first command.

And that's not good.

I think a lot of these so-called trainers never established their

alpha status with the dog. And so they throw their weight around

in other ways and stoop to abuse, when there are other newer methods

that can be used.

[911]

valerie;854785 wrote: Respectfully, 911... some part of what you've seen just might be

the southern mentality towards animals, dogs in particular.

Whoa, what does that mean?

I know what you mean about telling the dogs twice, but I have also

seen dogs where once will suffice, and one of the very first things

you learn in dog training (or you SHOULD learn) is only give the

command ONCE. Multiple cries of "Sit" "I said SIT" "SIT, dammit"

only teach the dog he doesn't have to obey the first command.

And that's not good.

I think a lot of these so-called trainers never established their

alpha status with the dog.

That's the first thing they do. And if you know how, then you know what they do. Or at least that's what I'm told.And so they throw their weight around

in other ways and stoop to abuse, when there are other newer methods

that can be used.


As I said, I don't approve of the training they do and I wish there was another way. I sure there is. But boys being boys will do whatever makes them in control. I think that's why there are more male handlers than female.

[valerie]

I just mean that there is more of a country/southern idea that they're

"just dogs". They're expendable, or livestock. I know you said you

don't approve of this, I believe you. But there are those who have

more of a Michael Vick mindset, that dogs are expendable and not worth

much.

The scumbag in the video didn't have alpha status established, and

you NEVER need force to do it.

There is something called NILIF "Nothing in life is free" that establishes

alpha status very easily. When I first adopted Sierra, that's all I used.

She respects my status now, so she doesn't need it although we still

do almost daily obedience sessions. That's all I'm talking about.

[YZGI]

I thought you meant she put sugar in her iced tea and ate chicken fried steak with cream gravy on it..



Southerners...pfft:wah:

[911]

valerie;854883 wrote: I just mean that there is more of a country/southern idea that they're

"just dogs". They're expendable, or livestock. I know you said you

don't approve of this, I believe you. But there are those who have

more of a Michael Vick mindset, that dogs are expendable and not worth

much.

The scumbag in the video didn't have alpha status established, and

you NEVER need force to do it.

There is something called NILIF "Nothing in life is free" that establishes

alpha status very easily. When I first adopted Sierra, that's all I used.

She respects my status now, so she doesn't need it although we still

do almost daily obedience sessions. That's all I'm talking about.


Oh, come on, Val. I thought you were smarter than that. That is such a classist thing to say. Not all of us southerners sit on porches, stum banjos and kick dogs when they get too close.

And please, never compare anyone to Michael Vick. Him and his cronies would have done that if they lived in Atlanta or Chicago. Stupid runs in the family, not in the climate.

Is it because that Trooper was from N. C.? Ergo, all southerners are toothless morons?

Hey, but I do have a velvet pitchur of Elvis and dogs playing poker for sale if'n y'all wanna buy it. But ch'all better hurry, now, cuz I'ma gonna put it on that there E-bay with'n my store bought terlet seat that didd'n fit the new outhouse I got built.

[YZGI]

911;854919 wrote: Oh, come on, Val. I thought you were smarter than that. That is such a classist thing to say. Not all of us southerners sit on porches, stum banjos and kick dogs when they get too close.



And please, never compare anyone to Michael Vick. Him and his cronies would have done that if they lived in Atlanta or Chicago. Stupid runs in the family, not in the climate.



Is it because that Trooper was from N. C.? Ergo, all southerners are toothless morons?



Hey, but I do have a velvet pitchur of Elvis and dogs playing poker for sale if'n y'all wanna buy it. But ch'all better hurry, now, cuz I'ma gonna put it on that there E-bay with'n my store bought terlet seat that didd'n fit the new outhouse I got built.
Don't you have some chitlins to stir and some collard green to get ready for supper? Don't forget to baste that coon in the oven or else it will get tough on ya..:wah:

[911]

YZGI;854923 wrote: Don't you have some chitlins to stir and some collard green to get ready for supper? Don't forget to baste that coon in the oven or else it will get tough on ya..:wah:


Have some?(That's the way we say you're invited to eat) I can set you an extra frisbee plate on the tv tray. That way the juices don't run off onto the floor. Music on the porch comes after. :guitarist

[YZGI]

911;854930 wrote: Have some?(That's the way we say you're invited to eat) I can set you an extra frisbee plate on the tv tray. That way the juices don't run off onto the floor. Music on the porch comes after. :guitarist
I'll bring the jug..

[911]

YZGI;854932 wrote: I'll bring the jug..


And just for you, I put my store bought teeth in

[YZGI]

911;854933 wrote: And just for you, I put my store bought teeth in
Show off.

[valerie]

911;854919 wrote: Oh, come on, Val. I thought you were smarter than that. That is such a classist thing to say. Not all of us southerners sit on porches, stum banjos and kick dogs when they get too close.

And please, never compare anyone to Michael Vick. Him and his cronies would have done that if they lived in Atlanta or Chicago. Stupid runs in the family, not in the climate.

Is it because that Trooper was from N. C.? Ergo, all southerners are toothless morons?

Hey, but I do have a velvet pitchur of Elvis and dogs playing poker for sale if'n y'all wanna buy it. But ch'all better hurry, now, cuz I'ma gonna put it on that there E-bay with'n my store bought terlet seat that didd'n fit the new outhouse I got built.


I'm very smart!!

I didn't say "all you" southerners. I'm sorry but I still will stand by it.

Vick may have done whatever wherever, that still doesn't change

what he did or where he did it.

Did you ever listen to Jeff Foxworthy? You might be a redneck?

One of his that really made me laugh is "You might be a redneck if

your front porch collapses and kills more than 3 dogs".

And I'm blond and live in California, I take stuff with a grain of salt

about us, too!!

:-6

[911]

valerie;854966 wrote: I'm very smart!!

I didn't say "all you" southerners. I'm sorry but I still will stand by it.

Vick may have done whatever wherever, that still doesn't change

what he did or where he did it.

Did you ever listen to Jeff Foxworthy? You might be a redneck?

One of his that really made me laugh is "You might be a redneck if

your front porch collapses and kills more than 3 dogs".

And I'm blond and live in California, I take stuff with a grain of salt

about us, too!!

:-6


:yh_doh

Seriously, you gotta quit taking everything you see and hear as fact. Jeff may be from the south and yes, his jokes are funny, but it's not factual to everyone. What he says are intended to be jokes and everyone knows that, what you stated, you stated with conviction and that's not right.

Do you watch the Animal Planet? Animal Cops? Most of those ignorant grunts are from the north. It's not Southern Animal Cops. I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but you made a broad statement saying that southerners are animal abusers and, I personally, take offense to that. I have always loved my babes and if anything, over love them, if that's possible, without hurting them.

And I'm blond and live in California, I take stuff with a grain of salt

about us, too!! But I never stated you were an airhead, surfing, thong wearing, Gucci shopping Californian. We all know blond jokes are jokes. But those that don't live in the south and have never had any contact, might well agree with you, just because you say it. Be careful what you say until you have all the facts.

Done and done. :-4

[valerie]

911;855865 wrote: :yh_doh

Seriously, you gotta quit taking everything you see and hear as fact. Jeff may be from the south and yes, his jokes are funny, but it's not factual to everyone. What he says are intended to be jokes and everyone knows that, what you stated, you stated with conviction and that's not right.

Do you watch the Animal Planet? Animal Cops? Most of those ignorant grunts are from the north. It's not Southern Animal Cops. I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but you made a broad statement saying that southerners are animal abusers and, I personally, take offense to that. I have always loved my babes and if anything, over love them, if that's possible, without hurting them.

But I never stated you were an airhead, surfing, thong wearing, Gucci shopping Californian. We all know blond jokes are jokes. But those that don't live in the south and have never had any contact, might well agree with you, just because you say it. Be careful what you say until you have all the facts.

Done and done. :-4


You misunderstand me. I made no broad statement that southerners

are animal abusers. You say you don't want to make a big deal about

this but this post just DID. No big deal would have been not replying any

more and the thread disappearing. Post #30 in this thread I said

"MIGHT BE" (emphasis added).

I KNOW JEff Foxworthy's stuff are JOKES that's the whole IDEA.

I threw in about being blond and Californian because those are

JOKES, too, see how that goes? A lot of jokes have an element of

TRUTH in them, and that's why people laugh at them. Saying that there

is an environment of feeling one way simply does not mean that all

(or even many or most) feel the same way. I'm sure the overwhelming

number of people of all areas of the country are like yourself, loving

their animals. And being blond and from California doesn't mean*I*

fit all the rest of it, either.

I do watch Animal Cops, and I know what you are saying. I also for

many years had a brother-in-law who was a police K-9 officer.

And I've done a large amount of reading from folks in the animal

handling training business, and talked to a lot of them. Nope, not

scientific at all. But a wide enough assortment from enough areas

of the country that I can say what I have said.

[Musiclover89]

Its Animal Cruelty so he should be punished how he isnt behind Bars is beyond me

[Pheasy]

Its disgusting!