Why Do We Exist ?

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:39 am

Why God created us do you ever wonder?

the answer is God wanted to be known .

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:39 am

Was the creation of humans a terrible blunder

As it is for the planet, I moan?

FUBAR · Post by **FUBAR** » Fri May 16, 2008 5:42 am

Which god? There are lots of gods now and loads more from history, so which one(s) do you mean?

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 5:51 am

cloverleaf;866902 wrote: Why God created us do you ever wonder?

the answer is God wanted to be known .
That's contradiction. Someone who wants to be known can't be God.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:52 pm

Jester;867577 wrote: Nope, he made us for fun, humor is the ulitmate. I'm certain God spends most of his time laughing at us.

:wah:
I don't think that many of us are that important.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:38 pm

God made us with free will...............then, He said, "Okay........go for it." We have the opportunity to show Him what we're made of............and show ourselves as well.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 2:50 pm

Jester;867678 wrote: On the contrary our hairs are numbered, even the birds are known by him.
How is it that few are chosen, then?

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Fri May 16, 2008 2:50 pm

There can be only one God because if there were more Gods in one moment there would be a state that one God would want something that the others would not

in that moment what would happen the answer is who is bigger stronger will rule it and he will be the real God so there can be only one God.

someone said that someone who wants to be known cant be God

how do you know that? or how can you say that God cant want something that you dont want is not it silly thinking?

can you judge what God may want or not?

if you look around you see many things and you can ask for everything why its like this not like that there would be endless questions but instead of thinking this thinking that God may wants anything and everything.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:00 pm

Jester;867793 wrote: You're using it in the english connotation only and not interpreting from the greek my friend.

Chosen means 'rare'.
So the chosen are rare. And yet God worries himself about the hairs of the common herd that is galloping headlong to destruction. Amazing.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:47 pm

Jester;867853 wrote: God doesn't worry, worry is for those who fear, God does not fear.
Is there no ironic sense at all in 'the greatest Country on earth'?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:22 pm

xyz: Honestly I admire your intention, but don't waste your fingers. Jester is a very lovely human being but also certain in his convictions and well practised in dodging:).

Currently my best understanding of why we exist is that we do.

I am English. The idea that you are all mere figments of my imagination is too much even for me. :wah:

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:32 pm

Clodhopper;867891 wrote: xyz: Honestly I admire your intention
But you don't seem to realise that I have blown the guy's argument away- or maybe he did it himself. Unless, of course, you are bothered by that fact.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:35 pm

Jester;867935 wrote: Ya it was so slick no body else realized it either...:-2
You operate at a different level from the rest of us, Jester. We just can't compete.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:53 am

Jester;867945 wrote: Have you checked for certain if you exist? :-2

Yes. I looked me up in the phone book and called myself. Since I answered I concluded that I must exist. Logic is so comforting. :wah:

When did you last call yourself, and did your family send you to the funny farm?

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:52 am

Jester;867945 wrote: Have you checked for certain if you exist? :-2
See what I mean.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:58 am

I don't exist. I called, then my call waiting interrupted me with a call from me, but when I switched over, no one was there.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat May 17, 2008 5:40 am

Accountable;868091 wrote: I don't exist. I called, then my call waiting interrupted me with a call from me, but when I switched over, no one was there.

You might be Jester. Or possibly xyz. Or both and all this discussion is actually happening inside the head you don't have.

So I have to ask: Are xyz and Jester Accountable?:)

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:04 am

Clodhopper;868134 wrote: So I have to ask: Are xyz and Jester Accountable?:)
You do have to ask, because you are terrified of one of them.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:12 am

xyz;868157 wrote: You do have to ask, because you are terrified of one of them.
Oooooo :yh_ooooo Which one? Wait! Lemme get some popcorn.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:15 am

Accountable;868166 wrote: Oooooo :yh_ooooo Which one? Wait! Lemme get some popcorn.
Now we know which one.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:57 am

Yup. I'm terrified of Accountable. All three of him.

Xyz is his maths part, Jester is self explanatory and all parts are accountable to all other parts. Bleedin' Commie.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:20 am

Okay, okay. Clover, let me apologize for my substantial part in derailing your thread. Now back to bidness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

xyz;867031 wrote: That's contradiction. Someone who wants to be known can't be God.
Can you explain that, please?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:27 am

Oops. Me too. One day I'll manage to stay on topic.

I once heard somewhere that we are the Universe's awareness of itself. Lovely idea.

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:50 am

A vivid analogy from Hoyle became a well-known cliché. "Belief in chemical evolution of the first cell from lifeless chemicals is equivalent to believing that a tornado could sweep through a junkyard and form a Boeing 747."

FUBAR · Post by **FUBAR** » Sat May 17, 2008 2:29 pm

cloverleaf;868403 wrote: A vivid analogy from Hoyle became a well-known cliché. "Belief in chemical evolution of the first cell from lifeless chemicals is equivalent to believing that a tornado could sweep through a junkyard and form a Boeing 747."

Didn't Hoyle have something to do with playing cards? Anyway any god who would create us just so he or she can go "LOOK AT ME..SEE WHAT I'VE DONE. AREN'T I GREAT" is pretty childish and nor worthy of the respect demanded.........

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:05 pm

Why God created us do you ever wonder?

the answer is God wanted to be known .

It is only a question to people who want a different answer.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:19 pm

cloverleaf;866902 wrote: Why God created us do you ever wonder?

I often wonder why we created God, at least in the skewed, wacky, and outright dangerous versions that have seemed to caught on with an alarming number of the world's populace.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:32 pm

cloverleaf;867770 wrote: There can be only one God because if there were more Gods in one moment there would be a state that one God would want something that the others would not

in that moment what would happen the answer is who is bigger stronger will rule it and he will be the real God so there can be only one God.

Not if the other Gods team up against him

Also, there could be a deadlock of endless struggle. Also, why wouldn't these multiple Gods just settle their differences in a democratic or rational way?

cloverleaf;867770 wrote:

someone said that someone who wants to be known cant be God

how do you know that? or how can you say that God cant want something that you dont want is not it silly thinking?

can you judge what God may want or not?

Isn't this what you are doing in your opening post?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun May 25, 2008 8:16 pm

According to the Greek lexicon the word "eklektos" means chosen or elect.

Thus ". . . few are chosen." means just that.

Shalom

Ted:-6

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:50 pm

Richard Bell;868699 wrote: I often wonder why we created God, at least in the skewed, wacky, and outright dangerous versions that have seemed to caught on with an alarming number of the world's populace.

if we dont know about existence of God we would have two options one is There is a God who created us or There is no God

look in your hands what do you have?

do you have more proves for existence of God or do you have more prove not existence of God?

JerryG · Post by **JerryG** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:08 am

Why do we exist? The Universe cycles perpetually. One configuration of the total universe is God alone. Another is a null state where God does not exist but the potential for God does exist. Thus the big cycle is pure nothingness and the singularity of God.

In between these two extremes the universe is subdivided into a series of different light speed energy zones. God occupies the highest light speed energy fields and we occupy the lowest,

We live within the mind of God. This physical and spiritual driving force acts upon the physical world to produce man and beast throughout the universe upon billions of Earths.

The driving force produces the mind of man as the highest physical fullfillment of the process. The process continues with the cosmic evolutionary cycle in which the individual appears over and over again for all eternity.

Therefore we exist because God is subdivided into higher and lower levels in the cosmic evolutionary process. This will involentary produce intelligent life everywhere in the universe. With or without any action by God intelligent creatures will automatically come into being.

The only thing God can do is to remember us and insure that some or many of us return to life over and over again to serve Gods higher purposes. God cannot stop the evolutionary process for the production of man without destroying the entire creation and returning to nothingness or God alone.

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:12 am

JerryG;885286 wrote: Why do we exist? The Universe cycles perpetually. One configuration of the total universe is God alone. Another is a null state where God does not exist but the potential for God does exist. Thus the big cycle is pure nothingness and the singularity of God.

In between these two extremes the universe is subdivided into a series of different light speed energy zones. God occupies the highest light speed energy fields and we occupy the lowest,

We live within the mind of God. This physical and spiritual driving force acts upon the physical world to produce man and beast throughout the universe upon billions of Earths.

The driving force produces the mind of man as the highest physical fullfillment of the process. The process continues with the cosmic evolutionary cycle in which the individual appears over and over again for all eternity.

Therefore we exist because God is subdivided into higher and lower levels in the cosmic evolutionary process. This will involentary produce intelligent life everywhere in the universe. With or without any action by God intelligent creatures will automatically come into being.

The only thing God can do is to remember us and insure that some or many of us return to life over and over again to serve Gods higher purposes. God cannot stop the evolutionary process for the production of man without destroying the entire creation and returning to nothingness or God alone.

Most of your explanations meaningless, does not have any information or scientific proves, how do you know the universe is subdivided into a series of different light speed energy zones? or you say God is subdivided into higher and lower levels in the cosmic evolutionary process, where is source of your knowledge?

accepting the universe is from different level of energy is not more then mind storm, you seemed to me that you beleive in reincarnation but there is no prove for it

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:19 am

cloverleaf;866902 wrote: Why God created us do you ever wonder?

the answer is God wanted to be known .

First, one would have to believe in a God, so no, I don't wonder about it at all.

JerryG · Post by **JerryG** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:44 am

cloverleaf;885411 wrote: Most of your explanations meaningless, does not have any information or scientific proves, how do you know the universe is subdivided into a series of different light speed energy zones? or you say God is subdivided into higher and lower levels in the cosmic evolutionary process, where is source of your knowledge?

accepting the universe is from different level of energy is not more then mind storm, you seemed to me that you beleive in reincarnation but there is no prove for it

Many things cannot be proved. Science has come to the conclusion that this universe is only part of the total energy. Dark energy is the answer they give.

Thus this level of physical existence is acknowledged to be only part of the total story. How would we define the other levels of the universe. The easiest solution is the light speed spectra. For Einsteins equation E= MCC, if we double the light speed we have 1/4 the mass. If the light speed goes up 8 times, then the mass is 1/64. Notice as we go toward light speed infinity, the mass of the higher universe is zero. Thus from a mathematical viewpoint as we go beyond our light speed dimension we attain an energy only universe with zero mass.

Since coexisting universes at higher and higher light speeds is quite possible, it is most likely that such universes of masslessness do exist and thus God is defined in such terms. I do not attempt to prove such things because our proofs require things we can see and measure. Our instruments cannot directly pick up higher light speed energy. We only have indirect ability to do so.

Since we are missing huge amounts of energy to produce our universe, it seems clear that God is a great possibility for the solution as to why we exist.

As far as God being composed of a series of higher and higher light speed zones of energy, this becomes more certain because the low to zero mass zones tend to be singular levels. They do not tend to produce heterogeneous structures but are intelligence fields only.

It may be possible for light speed 1024C energy to form other stars and planets. These levels could also be part of the soul of man. Thus individual forms could be produced at the lowest light speed levels.

I believe that everything beyond our light speed belongs to God alone. Thus our souls are not owned by us but belong to God.

You ask the source of my knowledge? I am 69 years now and I have a lifetime of interactions with audio/visual voices and visions which answer my questions and provice data for my studies. I still understand only a little bit. I communicate with a mind more intelligent than myself. I try to ignore it but it always comes back to put pressure upon me to proceed with my studies.

Often I say it is just a hallucination. Yet it upsets me when it says "You cannot die". It shows me a new Earth where I will be reborn. This is very upsetting because I am helpless before this power. This power is not evil. It means me no harm but I like to be free and independent and have control over my destiny.

JerryG · Post by **JerryG** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:52 am

Jester;885422 wrote: Thats great, define 'Pain' for me if you will and how phsycial characteristics of tangebility intersect your ideaology of living as the figment of Gods imagination?

No. We are not a figment of God's imagination. We live physically within the mind and body of God. Thus our energy flows through God and God's energy flows through us.

A spaceship of light speed 1024C energy comes at you. It flows right through your body yet it does not harm you.d All you feel is a slight interaction as the spaceship flows through you.

We coexist with God's energy. We cannot escape because we live within Gods energy field. Where is God? God is inside of us and outside of us. God is everywhere.

We are quite independent of God in most respects. Yet we will live again upon another Earth if God shall so choose. Someday most of us will be reborn again looking exactly as we are upon another Earth. We will ask the same questions and wonder all things. We will feel pain for sure.

We are trapped in space and time and God too is trapped in space and time. We suffer physical and mental pain while God suffers mental pain. God suffers from God's existence. God has no escape from God's existence.

JerryG · Post by **JerryG** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:25 pm

Jester;885672 wrote: I dont agree, God is not trapped in any sense of the word, your explaination of life limits God based on your human understanding... your science takes more faith than my biblical faith does... And you make huge leaps with quantum physics... you said 'could have' or 'may' more times in that one post to Cloverleaf than I ever will in a hundred posts... But to each his own so long as you dont harm anyone. Enjoy!

You still not have explained the factor of pain and you did not explain reality either, tangeablity denies your assessments above. Besides that, so far, no one person has moved at light speed, theoretically the mass would have to generate movement cellularly at the same rate other wise the force would destroy tissue.

You talk only on the theoretical level in your assessment of life, denying or at least lacking an explaination of the spiritual.

We do not move at the speed of light. This is impossible for us. We are composed of light speed energy. E = MCC. Energy equals mass times the speed of light squarred. For light speed 2 the mass is 1/4 for the same amount of energy.

As we go toward infinite light speed, the mass approaches zero for the same amount of energy. Thus God at the highest level light speeds is pure energy and zero mass.

The spiritual level of existence belongs only to God. We are physical creatures. That is all we know. Isaiah says we will be born again upon a New Earth. This is not a spiritual Earth. It is a real physical Earth. Heaven and hell is Zoroastrian not Jewish.

We can imagine all things spiritually but only God exists beyond ourselves. Yet all may believe what they chose to believe. In the end, we all die and perish in the flesh. Many will be reborn but they will be innocent of their past lives.

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:47 pm

JerryG;885559 wrote: Many things cannot be proved. Science has come to the conclusion that this universe is only part of the total energy. Dark energy is the answer they give.

Thus this level of physical existence is acknowledged to be only part of the total story. How would we define the other levels of the universe. The easiest solution is the light speed spectra. For Einsteins equation E= MCC, if we double the light speed we have 1/4 the mass. If the light speed goes up 8 times, then the mass is 1/64. Notice as we go toward light speed infinity, the mass of the higher universe is zero. Thus from a mathematical viewpoint as we go beyond our light speed dimension we attain an energy only universe with zero mass.

Since coexisting universes at higher and higher light speeds is quite possible, it is most likely that such universes of masslessness do exist and thus God is defined in such terms. I do not attempt to prove such things because our proofs require things we can see and measure. Our instruments cannot directly pick up higher light speed energy. We only have indirect ability to do so.

Since we are missing huge amounts of energy to produce our universe, it seems clear that God is a great possibility for the solution as to why we exist.

As far as God being composed of a series of higher and higher light speed zones of energy, this becomes more certain because the low to zero mass zones tend to be singular levels. They do not tend to produce heterogeneous structures but are intelligence fields only.

It may be possible for light speed 1024C energy to form other stars and planets. These levels could also be part of the soul of man. Thus individual forms could be produced at the lowest light speed levels.

I believe that everything beyond our light speed belongs to God alone. Thus our souls are not owned by us but belong to God.

You ask the source of my knowledge? I am 69 years now and I have a lifetime of interactions with audio/visual voices and visions which answer my questions and provice data for my studies. I still understand only a little bit. I communicate with a mind more intelligent than myself. I try to ignore it but it always comes back to put pressure upon me to proceed with my studies.

Often I say it is just a hallucination. Yet it upsets me when it says "You cannot die". It shows me a new Earth where I will be reborn. This is very upsetting because I am helpless before this power. This power is not evil. It means me no harm but I like to be free and independent and have control over my destiny.

Do you beleive in religion? I believe in Islam religion and Islam answers many questions that science can not answer. Islam also supports many scientific approaches because there is only one truth about these things.

For sure science can not explain everything but in the end science is believing that there is a system in the universe (like science accepts that every H2O molecule is water in certain conditions, this is a belief that works