When I first became a Christian (gawad that sounded dumb) I was reassured that God knew and loved me because I believed that within all ourselves we yearned for God and that is what made me know; God made it so we would seek to fill this yearning with God. Later I questioned why would God want us to reflect this entity that we were made to look like and for God. What vanity God must possess! Not saying the qualities that God posssesses are vain, just that by God placing in our hearts this yearning for us need to fill our hole with this _______ and to worship God to please God, why? I don't know.
Is this awareness that we know intrinsically we come from something larger and we want or have desire to get there the state that makes us feel like we exist? If we weren't aware of ourselves could we possibly exist? And would we be aware of ourselves if not for this spiritual quest?
Erin
Why Do We Exist ?
Why Do We Exist ?
[QUOTE=cloverleaf;885787] Do you beleive in religion? I believe in Islam religion and Islam answers many questions that science can not answer. Islam also supports many scientific approaches because there is only one truth about these things.
For sure science can not explain everything but in the end science is believing that there is a system in the universe (like science accepts that every H2O molecule is water in certain conditions, this is a belief that works
I am disappointed by religions. I believe that many prophets have communicated with God and brought man some insight and understanding. However everyman can be his own prophet. All of us stand alone before God in life and later in death. As a result each of us should seek his own salvation.
The big problem with religions is that once they are written down, they become the religion of the past and quite meaningless for the present.
For sure science can not explain everything but in the end science is believing that there is a system in the universe (like science accepts that every H2O molecule is water in certain conditions, this is a belief that works
I am disappointed by religions. I believe that many prophets have communicated with God and brought man some insight and understanding. However everyman can be his own prophet. All of us stand alone before God in life and later in death. As a result each of us should seek his own salvation.
The big problem with religions is that once they are written down, they become the religion of the past and quite meaningless for the present.
Why Do We Exist ?
[QUOTE=watermark;885796][What vanity God must possess!
JG: We were not made for Gods vanity. The material world exists within the Mind of God. This causes an involuntary driving force which causes an infinite variety of intelligent creatures to form all over the universe.
We are a byproduct of God moving from a singularity in which everything is God to a multiplicity in which the higher levels of spiritual energy form a lesser total God and the lower levels form the physical world. This gives all of creation Godlike abilities. God then perfects the creation. This has been going on for all eternity. Billions of universes have come and gone and billions more will come and go. It is a perpetual thing.
We are not perfect and God has chosen to maintain us at our level of perfection. The only thing God can do is destroy the entire creation and return to God alone or pure nothingness. Yet that denies us life and perhaps enough people feel that life is worthwhile that God permits us to continue forever.
"Not saying the qualities that God posssesses are vain, just that by God placing in our hearts this yearning for us need to fill our hole with this _______ and to worship God to please God, why? I don't know."
JG: Through the prophets of Israel God said "Do not worship me but treat your fellow man with love and justice". In my opinion to worship God is to make an idol of God. It is far better to do Gods work and serve the creation.
Is this awareness that we know intrinsically we come from something larger and we want or have desire to get there the state that makes us feel like we exist? If we weren't aware of ourselves could we possibly exist? And would we be aware of ourselves if not for this spiritual quest?
Many people hunger for communication with God. I have always suffered from too much God interaction.
JG: We were not made for Gods vanity. The material world exists within the Mind of God. This causes an involuntary driving force which causes an infinite variety of intelligent creatures to form all over the universe.
We are a byproduct of God moving from a singularity in which everything is God to a multiplicity in which the higher levels of spiritual energy form a lesser total God and the lower levels form the physical world. This gives all of creation Godlike abilities. God then perfects the creation. This has been going on for all eternity. Billions of universes have come and gone and billions more will come and go. It is a perpetual thing.
We are not perfect and God has chosen to maintain us at our level of perfection. The only thing God can do is destroy the entire creation and return to God alone or pure nothingness. Yet that denies us life and perhaps enough people feel that life is worthwhile that God permits us to continue forever.
"Not saying the qualities that God posssesses are vain, just that by God placing in our hearts this yearning for us need to fill our hole with this _______ and to worship God to please God, why? I don't know."
JG: Through the prophets of Israel God said "Do not worship me but treat your fellow man with love and justice". In my opinion to worship God is to make an idol of God. It is far better to do Gods work and serve the creation.
Is this awareness that we know intrinsically we come from something larger and we want or have desire to get there the state that makes us feel like we exist? If we weren't aware of ourselves could we possibly exist? And would we be aware of ourselves if not for this spiritual quest?
Many people hunger for communication with God. I have always suffered from too much God interaction.
Why Do We Exist ?
JerryG;885928 wrote: [QUOTE=watermark;885796][What vanity God must possess!
JG: We were not made for Gods vanity. The material world exists within the Mind of God. This causes an involuntary driving force which causes an infinite variety of intelligent creatures to form all over the universe.
We are a byproduct of God moving from a singularity in which everything is God to a multiplicity in which the higher levels of spiritual energy form a lesser total God and the lower levels form the physical world. This gives all of creation Godlike abilities. God then perfects the creation. This has been going on for all eternity. Billions of universes have come and gone and billions more will come and go. It is a perpetual thing.
JG: Through the prophets of Israel God said "Do not worship me but treat your fellow man with love and justice". In my opinion to worship God is to make an idol of God. It is far better to do Gods work and serve the creation.
Many people hunger for communication with God. I have always suffered from too much God interaction.
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
JG: We were not made for Gods vanity. The material world exists within the Mind of God. This causes an involuntary driving force which causes an infinite variety of intelligent creatures to form all over the universe.
We are a byproduct of God moving from a singularity in which everything is God to a multiplicity in which the higher levels of spiritual energy form a lesser total God and the lower levels form the physical world. This gives all of creation Godlike abilities. God then perfects the creation. This has been going on for all eternity. Billions of universes have come and gone and billions more will come and go. It is a perpetual thing.
JG: Through the prophets of Israel God said "Do not worship me but treat your fellow man with love and justice". In my opinion to worship God is to make an idol of God. It is far better to do Gods work and serve the creation.
Many people hunger for communication with God. I have always suffered from too much God interaction.
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
JerryG;885915 wrote: [QUOTE=cloverleaf;885787] Do you beleive in religion? I believe in Islam religion and Islam answers many questions that science can not answer. Islam also supports many scientific approaches because there is only one truth about these things.
For sure science can not explain everything but in the end science is believing that there is a system in the universe (like science accepts that every H2O molecule is water in certain conditions, this is a belief that works
I am disappointed by religions. I believe that many prophets have communicated with God and brought man some insight and understanding. However everyman can be his own prophet. All of us stand alone before God in life and later in death. As a result each of us should seek his own salvation.
The big problem with religions is that once they are written down, they become the religion of the past and quite meaningless for the present.
Yes true religions are written down since beginning till Mohammad and God completed His word with islam religion
Do you ever wonder what if you re wrong about your thoughts?
do you wonder what will happen after death?
according to some none beleviers nothing will happen , according to some religions you ll pay what you have done in this world then you ll go to eternal life in heaven
Islam has really serious threat about it
if you dont beleive as islam ask to beleive hell is the only place to go forever
can you take that risk really?
what if you re wrong ? what if islam is right?
For sure science can not explain everything but in the end science is believing that there is a system in the universe (like science accepts that every H2O molecule is water in certain conditions, this is a belief that works
I am disappointed by religions. I believe that many prophets have communicated with God and brought man some insight and understanding. However everyman can be his own prophet. All of us stand alone before God in life and later in death. As a result each of us should seek his own salvation.
The big problem with religions is that once they are written down, they become the religion of the past and quite meaningless for the present.
Yes true religions are written down since beginning till Mohammad and God completed His word with islam religion
Do you ever wonder what if you re wrong about your thoughts?
do you wonder what will happen after death?
according to some none beleviers nothing will happen , according to some religions you ll pay what you have done in this world then you ll go to eternal life in heaven
Islam has really serious threat about it
if you dont beleive as islam ask to beleive hell is the only place to go forever
can you take that risk really?
what if you re wrong ? what if islam is right?
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cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
watermark;886497 wrote: [QUOTE=JerryG;885928]
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
Hi watermark
I think you are christian beleiver
can you tell me , according your faith what will happen to you after death?
and to others?
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
Hi watermark
I think you are christian beleiver
can you tell me , according your faith what will happen to you after death?
and to others?
Why Do We Exist ?
cloverleaf;886512 wrote: [quote=JerryG;885915]
Yes true religions are written down since beginning till Mohammad and God completed His word with islam religion
Do you ever wonder what if you re wrong about your thoughts?
do you wonder what will happen after death?
according to some none beleviers nothing will happen , according to some religions you ll pay what you have done in this world then you ll go to eternal life in heaven
Islam has really serious threat about it
if you dont beleive as islam ask to beleive hell is the only place to go forever
can you take that risk really?
what if you re wrong ? what if islam is right?
You need to ask yourself the same questions.
What if you are wrong?
Yes true religions are written down since beginning till Mohammad and God completed His word with islam religion
Do you ever wonder what if you re wrong about your thoughts?
do you wonder what will happen after death?
according to some none beleviers nothing will happen , according to some religions you ll pay what you have done in this world then you ll go to eternal life in heaven
Islam has really serious threat about it
if you dont beleive as islam ask to beleive hell is the only place to go forever
can you take that risk really?
what if you re wrong ? what if islam is right?
You need to ask yourself the same questions.
What if you are wrong?
Why Do We Exist ?
If you believe that GOD is a "All Knowing God" and a "Forgiving God" then he would surely know the mind of the non believer and understand, otherwise it is only FEAR that generates and perpetuates the different faiths
Why Do We Exist ?
Lon:-6
That idea of fear in religion is what scares me. Using fear to get someone to believe in your way is wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
That idea of fear in religion is what scares me. Using fear to get someone to believe in your way is wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
YZGI;886997 wrote: [quote=cloverleaf;886512]
You need to ask yourself the same questions.
What if you are wrong?
Yes i do ask those questions to myself always because i am always worrying about my life after death
what do you find when you ask those questions to your self?
You need to ask yourself the same questions.
What if you are wrong?
Yes i do ask those questions to myself always because i am always worrying about my life after death
what do you find when you ask those questions to your self?
Why Do We Exist ?
cloverleaf;886513 wrote: [QUOTE=watermark;886497]
Hi watermark
I think you are christian beleiver
can you tell me , according your faith what will happen to you after death?
and to others?
Hi cloverleaf-
I'll try to answer this. I never understood what the Christian belief says about life after death except that 1) this life on earth is our one and only life 2) If we believe that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour then we will be saved and go to heaven after we die to live in God's kingdom (or at the right hand of God? not sure; at any rate there are many rooms 3) People won't go to heaven until the second coming of Christ (I assume we all stay buried or whatnot until then--not me since I will prefer my body to be cremated or parted out as an organ donor or else, well, don't know my other options yet). That last point #3 I only found out after asking evangelicals I know about what we do right after death. Noone could give me an answer until I asked the right people! I couldn't find it in the Bible anywhere.
Erin
Hi watermark
I think you are christian beleiver
can you tell me , according your faith what will happen to you after death?
and to others?
Hi cloverleaf-
I'll try to answer this. I never understood what the Christian belief says about life after death except that 1) this life on earth is our one and only life 2) If we believe that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour then we will be saved and go to heaven after we die to live in God's kingdom (or at the right hand of God? not sure; at any rate there are many rooms 3) People won't go to heaven until the second coming of Christ (I assume we all stay buried or whatnot until then--not me since I will prefer my body to be cremated or parted out as an organ donor or else, well, don't know my other options yet). That last point #3 I only found out after asking evangelicals I know about what we do right after death. Noone could give me an answer until I asked the right people! I couldn't find it in the Bible anywhere.
Erin
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
watermark;887185 wrote: [QUOTE=cloverleaf;886513]
Hi cloverleaf-
I'll try to answer this. I never understood what the Christian belief says about life after death except that 1) this life on earth is our one and only life 2) If we believe that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour then we will be saved and go to heaven after we die to live in God's kingdom (or at the right hand of God? not sure; at any rate there are many rooms 3) People won't go to heaven until the second coming of Christ (I assume we all stay buried or whatnot until then--not me since I will prefer my body to be cremated or parted out as an organ donor or else, well, don't know my other options yet). That last point #3 I only found out after asking evangelicals I know about what we do right after death. Noone could give me an answer until I asked the right people! I couldn't find it in the Bible anywhere.
Erin
Hi
I can tell you too many things about the time of death, what will happen in grave and after doom according to islam beleif
According to islam ; God spoke to human through prophets since Adam, when angel Gabriel came to mary told her that God will give her a boy, she said no way i am not even touched , angel said that this is God's whish and i will happen and Jesus was born and Jesus told people about what other prophets told and more but some how some of saints wrote Bible 70 years after Jesus desappeared and they wrote 4 different Bible its very posibble that they may wrote somethings from them self instead of God's words and somehow they called Jesus is lord God but Quran says that God did not let them kill Jesus He saved him and take him to sky (according to islam masters researhces Jesus will come back and tell the truth live for a while and die as other people)
God sent Mohammad as a prophet about 600 years later then Jesus
and God sent tru him another holy book (the completed message) Quran that includes many things that christians old testament has about history too but unfortunately chrstians accept other prophets but not prophet Mohammad even he brought Quran as God's words as he was not able to read or write , when he had messages from God tru his life long he told to his friends and they wrote it down right away
Quran is really big challange to everyone who does not beleive in islam
According to Islam;
when someone die Angel of death comes with two other angels and take his soul like pealing skin from the body it hurts so bad but he cant scream out because of the person is intrance,
when the one of the big angel blows the horn it will be doom day when he blow it second time it will be the day to raise up from death,
there are too many details about this but basically long time people will stay like that (thousand of years) then people who does not beleive in islam after Mohammad will be sent to hell and they will stay there forever, people who lived after Mohammad but did not beleive in Mohammad and Quran but beleived in Jesus or Moses or worshipped to ideal or atheist ones will go to hell forever they wont be ask about their sins in the world because someone who can not pass beleif test wont be asked other things
except people who followed the prophets in his time like poeple who beleived in Jesus as jesus beleived or Moses's followers beleived Moses in his time
Other beleivers will wait for Judgement for their sins these are the people who only will go to heaven direct or after paying the bill (bad things that they did in the world) I know it scarry but I swear this is true , this is what God wanted to be done
Hi cloverleaf-
I'll try to answer this. I never understood what the Christian belief says about life after death except that 1) this life on earth is our one and only life 2) If we believe that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour then we will be saved and go to heaven after we die to live in God's kingdom (or at the right hand of God? not sure; at any rate there are many rooms 3) People won't go to heaven until the second coming of Christ (I assume we all stay buried or whatnot until then--not me since I will prefer my body to be cremated or parted out as an organ donor or else, well, don't know my other options yet). That last point #3 I only found out after asking evangelicals I know about what we do right after death. Noone could give me an answer until I asked the right people! I couldn't find it in the Bible anywhere.
Erin
Hi
I can tell you too many things about the time of death, what will happen in grave and after doom according to islam beleif
According to islam ; God spoke to human through prophets since Adam, when angel Gabriel came to mary told her that God will give her a boy, she said no way i am not even touched , angel said that this is God's whish and i will happen and Jesus was born and Jesus told people about what other prophets told and more but some how some of saints wrote Bible 70 years after Jesus desappeared and they wrote 4 different Bible its very posibble that they may wrote somethings from them self instead of God's words and somehow they called Jesus is lord God but Quran says that God did not let them kill Jesus He saved him and take him to sky (according to islam masters researhces Jesus will come back and tell the truth live for a while and die as other people)
God sent Mohammad as a prophet about 600 years later then Jesus
and God sent tru him another holy book (the completed message) Quran that includes many things that christians old testament has about history too but unfortunately chrstians accept other prophets but not prophet Mohammad even he brought Quran as God's words as he was not able to read or write , when he had messages from God tru his life long he told to his friends and they wrote it down right away
Quran is really big challange to everyone who does not beleive in islam
According to Islam;
when someone die Angel of death comes with two other angels and take his soul like pealing skin from the body it hurts so bad but he cant scream out because of the person is intrance,
when the one of the big angel blows the horn it will be doom day when he blow it second time it will be the day to raise up from death,
there are too many details about this but basically long time people will stay like that (thousand of years) then people who does not beleive in islam after Mohammad will be sent to hell and they will stay there forever, people who lived after Mohammad but did not beleive in Mohammad and Quran but beleived in Jesus or Moses or worshipped to ideal or atheist ones will go to hell forever they wont be ask about their sins in the world because someone who can not pass beleif test wont be asked other things
except people who followed the prophets in his time like poeple who beleived in Jesus as jesus beleived or Moses's followers beleived Moses in his time
Other beleivers will wait for Judgement for their sins these are the people who only will go to heaven direct or after paying the bill (bad things that they did in the world) I know it scarry but I swear this is true , this is what God wanted to be done
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ted;887152 wrote: Lon:-6
That idea of fear in religion is what scares me. Using fear to get someone to believe in your way is wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Hi Ted
I understand what you say but people dont realize the big threat
its really serious state
I swear to God who hold my life in His powerful hand, we muslims are living in between fear and hope because we dont have guarantee for we ll give our last breath in true faith
You should know that God is most mercyful to mankind and God does not look at your face God looks at your heart and to the things you do
did you know that man love woman , woman love man like crazy just because of God's mercy on us and when love is 10 level , loving eachother on this earth is just for level 1
That idea of fear in religion is what scares me. Using fear to get someone to believe in your way is wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Hi Ted
I understand what you say but people dont realize the big threat
its really serious state
I swear to God who hold my life in His powerful hand, we muslims are living in between fear and hope because we dont have guarantee for we ll give our last breath in true faith
You should know that God is most mercyful to mankind and God does not look at your face God looks at your heart and to the things you do
did you know that man love woman , woman love man like crazy just because of God's mercy on us and when love is 10 level , loving eachother on this earth is just for level 1
Why Do We Exist ?
[
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
Jews always require ten men for a formal prayer ceremony. Yet although coming from Judaism and still practicing some things with the family, I read like what the Prophet Yeshua says in speaking to God alone and in quiet.
The problem with formal religion is that once the words are written down, they become fixed in time and become an idol. Thus we are separated from God by words written down by dead people of long ago. God exists in the here and now. We make God a God of the past.
In any evernt, since childhood whenever I prayed to God, God listened. Often God would speak audioally to me. God was always there to advise and help me.
I never thought this was special until adulthood when I realized that God did not speak to many. The best people can achieve is a feeling that God is there.
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
Jews always require ten men for a formal prayer ceremony. Yet although coming from Judaism and still practicing some things with the family, I read like what the Prophet Yeshua says in speaking to God alone and in quiet.
The problem with formal religion is that once the words are written down, they become fixed in time and become an idol. Thus we are separated from God by words written down by dead people of long ago. God exists in the here and now. We make God a God of the past.
In any evernt, since childhood whenever I prayed to God, God listened. Often God would speak audioally to me. God was always there to advise and help me.
I never thought this was special until adulthood when I realized that God did not speak to many. The best people can achieve is a feeling that God is there.
Why Do We Exist ?
Clover:-6
I understand what you are saying but I strongly disagree. The Christian Bible claims to be the word of God just as the Qur'an claims to be the word of Allah. Other sacred writings also make the same claim. You are making the same claims that other faiths make. You make the same insistent proclamations. Why should I or anyone else accept your version over anyone else's? That someone makes a claim or that some book or sacred writing makes a claim does not make it so.
Please do not get me wrong. I believe that all of the great faiths have validity and in one way or another reflect Allah, God, the Great Spirit, Vishnu etc.
I do not believe that any faith has the ultimate truth. That is purely human wishful thinking.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I understand what you are saying but I strongly disagree. The Christian Bible claims to be the word of God just as the Qur'an claims to be the word of Allah. Other sacred writings also make the same claim. You are making the same claims that other faiths make. You make the same insistent proclamations. Why should I or anyone else accept your version over anyone else's? That someone makes a claim or that some book or sacred writing makes a claim does not make it so.
Please do not get me wrong. I believe that all of the great faiths have validity and in one way or another reflect Allah, God, the Great Spirit, Vishnu etc.
I do not believe that any faith has the ultimate truth. That is purely human wishful thinking.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why Do We Exist ?
JG:-6
I can agree with your point about the Bible coming from the past leads to idolatry and a seemingly living in the past. That is indeed a big danger. However, it is not necessarily the outcome.
The Bible can and ought to be read as midrash and metaphor in light of our accumulated knowledge and our present culture. We must learn to discern it's message for today.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I can agree with your point about the Bible coming from the past leads to idolatry and a seemingly living in the past. That is indeed a big danger. However, it is not necessarily the outcome.
The Bible can and ought to be read as midrash and metaphor in light of our accumulated knowledge and our present culture. We must learn to discern it's message for today.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why Do We Exist ?
Clover:-6
BTW I ask the same question of members of all the great faiths.
Shalom
Ted:-6
BTW I ask the same question of members of all the great faiths.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ted;888069 wrote: Clover:-6
I understand what you are saying but I strongly disagree. The Christian Bible claims to be the word of God just as the Qur'an claims to be the word of Allah. Other sacred writings also make the same claim. You are making the same claims that other faiths make. You make the same insistent proclamations. Why should I or anyone else accept your version over anyone else's? That someone makes a claim or that some book or sacred writing makes a claim does not make it so.
Please do not get me wrong. I believe that all of the great faiths have validity and in one way or another reflect Allah, God, the Great Spirit, Vishnu etc.
I do not believe that any faith has the ultimate truth. That is purely human wishful thinking.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I understand what you re saying
but I honestly trust my religion and i am ready to compare with all other religions includes any kind of proves (science, math, history etc...) to find out which one is true faith
there is endless hell fire for you if you dont beleive in God as islam says because there can be only one truth
and truth is like a math problem if you make any little mistake you get wrong result that does not make you pass the test
What does stop you not to beleive in Quran if you beleive it is words of God then you should beleive everything what it says so try to search is the Quran really words of God
I understand what you are saying but I strongly disagree. The Christian Bible claims to be the word of God just as the Qur'an claims to be the word of Allah. Other sacred writings also make the same claim. You are making the same claims that other faiths make. You make the same insistent proclamations. Why should I or anyone else accept your version over anyone else's? That someone makes a claim or that some book or sacred writing makes a claim does not make it so.
Please do not get me wrong. I believe that all of the great faiths have validity and in one way or another reflect Allah, God, the Great Spirit, Vishnu etc.
I do not believe that any faith has the ultimate truth. That is purely human wishful thinking.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I understand what you re saying
but I honestly trust my religion and i am ready to compare with all other religions includes any kind of proves (science, math, history etc...) to find out which one is true faith
there is endless hell fire for you if you dont beleive in God as islam says because there can be only one truth
and truth is like a math problem if you make any little mistake you get wrong result that does not make you pass the test
What does stop you not to beleive in Quran if you beleive it is words of God then you should beleive everything what it says so try to search is the Quran really words of God
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ted;888077 wrote: Clover:-6
BTW I ask the same question of members of all the great faiths.
Shalom
Ted:-6
which question?
BTW I ask the same question of members of all the great faiths.
Shalom
Ted:-6
which question?
Why Do We Exist ?
Clover:-6
I too really believe in my faith-Christianity though I also accept the validity of all of the great faiths. Each religion is a product of the history, culture, knowledge base, experiences of each area of the world.
I do not believe in nor do I accept the existence of a literal hell.
What is truth? An interesting question.
Before I can comment on any sacred writings what is meant by "The Word of God"?
My original question about why I should accept one over the other has not been answered to my satisfaction.
Shalom
Ted
I too really believe in my faith-Christianity though I also accept the validity of all of the great faiths. Each religion is a product of the history, culture, knowledge base, experiences of each area of the world.
I do not believe in nor do I accept the existence of a literal hell.
What is truth? An interesting question.
Before I can comment on any sacred writings what is meant by "The Word of God"?
My original question about why I should accept one over the other has not been answered to my satisfaction.
Shalom
Ted
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ted;888084 wrote: Clover:-6
I too really believe in my faith-Christianity though I also accept the validity of all of the great faiths. Each religion is a product of the history, culture, knowledge base, experiences of each area of the world.
I do not believe in nor do I accept the existence of a literal hell.
What is truth? An interesting question.
Before I can comment on any sacred writings what is meant by "The Word of God"?
My original question about why I should accept one over the other has not been answered to my satisfaction.
Shalom
Ted
Hi
when i look religions like christianity, judaism or islam i see; these are all from same God so far its fine but how is that work? i mean What God wanted from us since beginning?
If you say that Adam was a prophet of God but Moses was not or Jesus is Prophet of God but Mohammad is not then you should have to prove it or have argument that proves Mohammad is not prophet
if you say Mohammad is not prophet that means Quran is not Holy book
if Quran is not Holy book You have to deal with Quran (what it says as proves that is what God said)
if you say that yes i beleive Quran is holy book then you must accept Mohammed is the prophet if he is the prophet You must accept everything Quran says its simply clear i think
if you say that you dont beleive in islam you beleive in christianity as they say "Jesus is Lord" How can you explain what Mohammad said in Quran about all things in old testament and many new amazing informations "like the state of embryo in mothers womb or God is expanding the sky (which scientist figured it out 30 or 50 years ago) etc.. (if you want i can find many informations that Quran has about futur or things that people figured in last century) by a man (Mohammad) who does not read or write will tell all these?
do you beleive like what your family beleive it does not matter true or false or do you say that i close my eyes and i look around and i beleive what i like? or i mix all the informations and i beleive however i feel about it
we say that all prophets sent by same real one God to human being and all prophets asked people to know God not to worship any other idols and do the things that God wants them to do and dont do the things that God does not want them to do, but christians misunderstood somethings and accepted Jesus as Lord and dont accept Mohammad as prophet after Jesus that is understandable if you accept someone as God then human being dont need any other prophet but this is wrong because there are things that Quran says and Mohammad says how can someone easily ignores this?
I too really believe in my faith-Christianity though I also accept the validity of all of the great faiths. Each religion is a product of the history, culture, knowledge base, experiences of each area of the world.
I do not believe in nor do I accept the existence of a literal hell.
What is truth? An interesting question.
Before I can comment on any sacred writings what is meant by "The Word of God"?
My original question about why I should accept one over the other has not been answered to my satisfaction.
Shalom
Ted
Hi
when i look religions like christianity, judaism or islam i see; these are all from same God so far its fine but how is that work? i mean What God wanted from us since beginning?
If you say that Adam was a prophet of God but Moses was not or Jesus is Prophet of God but Mohammad is not then you should have to prove it or have argument that proves Mohammad is not prophet
if you say Mohammad is not prophet that means Quran is not Holy book
if Quran is not Holy book You have to deal with Quran (what it says as proves that is what God said)
if you say that yes i beleive Quran is holy book then you must accept Mohammed is the prophet if he is the prophet You must accept everything Quran says its simply clear i think
if you say that you dont beleive in islam you beleive in christianity as they say "Jesus is Lord" How can you explain what Mohammad said in Quran about all things in old testament and many new amazing informations "like the state of embryo in mothers womb or God is expanding the sky (which scientist figured it out 30 or 50 years ago) etc.. (if you want i can find many informations that Quran has about futur or things that people figured in last century) by a man (Mohammad) who does not read or write will tell all these?
do you beleive like what your family beleive it does not matter true or false or do you say that i close my eyes and i look around and i beleive what i like? or i mix all the informations and i beleive however i feel about it
we say that all prophets sent by same real one God to human being and all prophets asked people to know God not to worship any other idols and do the things that God wants them to do and dont do the things that God does not want them to do, but christians misunderstood somethings and accepted Jesus as Lord and dont accept Mohammad as prophet after Jesus that is understandable if you accept someone as God then human being dont need any other prophet but this is wrong because there are things that Quran says and Mohammad says how can someone easily ignores this?
Why Do We Exist ?
Clover:-6
I think what God wants from us is very clear; justice (distributive) and compassion. Our faith in God is not about right belief. It is about living in a developing transforming relationship with Him/Her. It is not about right doctrine but about trusting in God. I trust in God, Allah, the Great Spirit etc. If it were about right belief than out of 22 000 Christian denominations to say nothing about the variety of Muslims as well as Buddhists etc. how can I tell which is the right one. That is simply not possible.
The story of Adam is a myth. It is not about a real person. Even the existence of Moses is questionable.
I accept that for Muslims the Qur'an is a holy book every bit as much as the Bible is the holy book for Christians. What makes a book holy? The Bible claims to be the word of God and so does the Qur'an. My question which is yet unanswered is "Why should I accept your version of faith over anyone else's? There are many parts of the Christian Bible that appear to predict things of the future. These are simply a matter of interpretation and nothing more.
In the Muslim culture Mohammad is the prophet. This does not make him the prophet for other cultures.
As far as "truth" goes I believe there is ultimate truth but that none of us here on earth actually totally understand that truth. That ultimate truth as far as I can see is the ultimate reality, the Divine, God, Allah or whatever. I do not believe that God encourages war or murder except in the nature of self defense.
To refer to Jesus as God is a rather difficult situation. God is One. Anything that we can say about the Divine is pure metaphor and nothing else. We, as humans, do not have the language with which to talk about God beyond using metaphor. As Christians we believe that the One God has manifest Himself/Herself in three different ways. What we see in Jesus is the manifestation of the One true God. This is not to deny that Mohammad was and is a prophet. He is for Muslims.
We as Christians do not believe that God is so petty as to worry about what people say about Him/Her. God is above and beyond that. We do not believe that God worries about what we say about the prophets. God is beyond that. If God is almighty He/She could do something about that but has chosen not to do so.
I am as adamant about my Christian faith as you are about Islam. For you Islam is the right path. I do not try to convert Muslims and I have no desire to convert to Islam. I have studied the other great faiths to a certain extent and have made my choice.
We as Christians do not hassle Christians who convert to Islam and some have and that is fine. By the same token I also know what happens to a Muslim if he/she converts to Christianity. I am sure that the Divine is very disappointed in those who murder others for such reasons.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think what God wants from us is very clear; justice (distributive) and compassion. Our faith in God is not about right belief. It is about living in a developing transforming relationship with Him/Her. It is not about right doctrine but about trusting in God. I trust in God, Allah, the Great Spirit etc. If it were about right belief than out of 22 000 Christian denominations to say nothing about the variety of Muslims as well as Buddhists etc. how can I tell which is the right one. That is simply not possible.
The story of Adam is a myth. It is not about a real person. Even the existence of Moses is questionable.
I accept that for Muslims the Qur'an is a holy book every bit as much as the Bible is the holy book for Christians. What makes a book holy? The Bible claims to be the word of God and so does the Qur'an. My question which is yet unanswered is "Why should I accept your version of faith over anyone else's? There are many parts of the Christian Bible that appear to predict things of the future. These are simply a matter of interpretation and nothing more.
In the Muslim culture Mohammad is the prophet. This does not make him the prophet for other cultures.
As far as "truth" goes I believe there is ultimate truth but that none of us here on earth actually totally understand that truth. That ultimate truth as far as I can see is the ultimate reality, the Divine, God, Allah or whatever. I do not believe that God encourages war or murder except in the nature of self defense.
To refer to Jesus as God is a rather difficult situation. God is One. Anything that we can say about the Divine is pure metaphor and nothing else. We, as humans, do not have the language with which to talk about God beyond using metaphor. As Christians we believe that the One God has manifest Himself/Herself in three different ways. What we see in Jesus is the manifestation of the One true God. This is not to deny that Mohammad was and is a prophet. He is for Muslims.
We as Christians do not believe that God is so petty as to worry about what people say about Him/Her. God is above and beyond that. We do not believe that God worries about what we say about the prophets. God is beyond that. If God is almighty He/She could do something about that but has chosen not to do so.
I am as adamant about my Christian faith as you are about Islam. For you Islam is the right path. I do not try to convert Muslims and I have no desire to convert to Islam. I have studied the other great faiths to a certain extent and have made my choice.
We as Christians do not hassle Christians who convert to Islam and some have and that is fine. By the same token I also know what happens to a Muslim if he/she converts to Christianity. I am sure that the Divine is very disappointed in those who murder others for such reasons.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
cloverleaf
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ted;888836 wrote: Clover:-6
I think what God wants from us is very clear; justice (distributive) and compassion. Our faith in God is not about right belief. It is about living in a developing transforming relationship with Him/Her. It is not about right doctrine but about trusting in God. I trust in God, Allah, the Great Spirit etc. If it were about right belief than out of 22 000 Christian denominations to say nothing about the variety of Muslims as well as Buddhists etc. how can I tell which is the right one. That is simply not possible.
remeber they wanted to kill Gallileo when Galileo said that the world is rounded and turning, it was true but people did not know this so it does not matter there are 22000 different denominations as long as they dont say the truth
you have to be open minded and able to compare inbetween religions to find out which one is right.
another thing is as i told before, if islam is right you re (who does not beleive in islam) in big trouble how can you take that risk so learn it .
There are denominations in islam too but they are same about beleif .
for example if someone says that shrimp is eatable food and another one says no shirimp is not eatable according to islam and shows some reasons for it
that does not mean that any one of these people does not beleive right, so these kind of different point of views are (like vegatables in salad) not problem in islam as long as they beleive right.
we follow Quran then what our Prophet said and did and how islamic masters explain these two.
we dont say that i think what God wants because we look at Quran and the Prophets words and his actions these are perfectly tell us what God want from us.we follow informations
The story of Adam is a myth. It is not about a real person. Even the existence of Moses is questionable.
How can you say that the story of Adam is a myth even the story passes in old testament and Quran ? so that means you dont beleive in christianity and also islam , you dont beleive in Jesus or Mohammad and God of Jesus and Mohammad and Adam because you seem like you accept somethings from Bible but some things you dont beleive so that means you beleive in yourself only basically faith is this if you beleive in religion like christianity or islam you must accept everything that religion says you can not create new christianity or islam
I accept that for Muslims the Qur'an is a holy book every bit as much as the Bible is the holy book for Christians. What makes a book holy?
After making comparessions with these books you would decide that these are man made words or God's words if you decide that they are God's words then they are Holy books is that clear?
The Bible claims to be the word of God and so does the Qur'an. My question which is yet unanswered is "Why should I accept your version of faith over anyone else's?
You should beleive in islam because when i (you) make comparession inbetween christianity and islam,( you should read Quran and learn Mohammad's teaching to make comparession) islam is logical religon because abviously God of Jesus can sent another messenger after Jesus if you know and accept Jesus is a prophet of God and God did sent prophets before then. and you should tell to yourself what makes you beleive? (magic? words? etc...)
You say that Bible says many things what Quran says , yes that is true because in the end both came from same God but christians changed part the Bible and God did not finished His sentences with Bible , finished with Quran that is why you should beleive in islam , and that is why since Mohammad no one came as prophet since 600s AD
There are many parts of the Christian Bible that appear to predict things of the future. These are simply a matter of interpretation and nothing more.
In the Muslim culture Mohammad is the prophet. This does not make him the prophet for other cultures.
God is everything's God so His prophets is everones prophets who beleive in that God.
As far as "truth" goes I believe there is ultimate truth but that none of us here on earth actually totally understand that truth. That ultimate truth as far as I can see is the ultimate reality, the Divine, God, Allah or whatever. I do not believe that God encourages war or murder except in the nature of self defense.
Do you realize that you want God to want what you want? like many others
I really can say that you dont know well about truth
You seem to me that you have many and partly informations like a puzzle but you dont know how to put the pieces togather.
if i was you i would look at in my hand what i have (information wise)
Do i see existence of God (yes its so clear) then do i know that did God speak to mankind? according to many proves and history yes if you have doubt about history like you said above about Story of Adam You should doubt about napolion or ceasar or lincoln or G washinton...
then i look what God told those prophets try to figure out what God wants from me, then i probably figure out islam in the end ..
To refer to Jesus as God is a rather difficult situation. God is One. Anything that we can say about the Divine is pure metaphor and nothing else. We, as humans, do not have the language with which to talk about God beyond using metaphor. As Christians we believe that the One God has manifest Himself/Herself in three different ways. What we see in Jesus is the manifestation of the One true God. This is not to deny that Mohammad was and is a prophet. He is for Muslims.
in true beleif, there can be only one truth and you cant accept part of what God says that is why we accept Jesus, Bible (before changed i mean Original one that Jesus said) other prophets, holy books, angels, doom day, judgement day and good and bad things comes to us from God
We as Christians do not believe that God is so petty as to worry about what people say about Him/Her. God is above and beyond that. We do not believe that God worries about what we say about the prophets. God is beyond that. If God is almighty He/She could do something about that but has chosen not to do so.
You dont accept the story of Adam so you can not be christian right? because Bible tells about Adam and his existence ? beleiving is accepting
I am as adamant about my Christian faith as you are about Islam. For you Islam is the right path. I do not try to convert Muslims and I have no desire to convert to Islam. I have studied the other great faiths to a certain extent and have made my choice.
We as Christians do not hassle Christians who convert to Islam and some have and that is fine. By the same token I also know what happens to a Muslim if he/she converts to Christianity. I am sure that the Divine is very disappointed in those who murder others for such reasons.
As I am a muslim asking people to convert in islam, i try to explain islam as much as i can , you can always ask me anything you want
Shalom
Ted:-6
FATE is the secret unknown thing for us
Allah wanted to create earth and for endless life heaven and hell and Allah wanted to fill both this is what Allah wanted
If Allah wanted everyone beleives then everyone would beleive but Allah did not wanted that,
we just dont know who will be the one of these
I think what God wants from us is very clear; justice (distributive) and compassion. Our faith in God is not about right belief. It is about living in a developing transforming relationship with Him/Her. It is not about right doctrine but about trusting in God. I trust in God, Allah, the Great Spirit etc. If it were about right belief than out of 22 000 Christian denominations to say nothing about the variety of Muslims as well as Buddhists etc. how can I tell which is the right one. That is simply not possible.
remeber they wanted to kill Gallileo when Galileo said that the world is rounded and turning, it was true but people did not know this so it does not matter there are 22000 different denominations as long as they dont say the truth
you have to be open minded and able to compare inbetween religions to find out which one is right.
another thing is as i told before, if islam is right you re (who does not beleive in islam) in big trouble how can you take that risk so learn it .
There are denominations in islam too but they are same about beleif .
for example if someone says that shrimp is eatable food and another one says no shirimp is not eatable according to islam and shows some reasons for it
that does not mean that any one of these people does not beleive right, so these kind of different point of views are (like vegatables in salad) not problem in islam as long as they beleive right.
we follow Quran then what our Prophet said and did and how islamic masters explain these two.
we dont say that i think what God wants because we look at Quran and the Prophets words and his actions these are perfectly tell us what God want from us.we follow informations
The story of Adam is a myth. It is not about a real person. Even the existence of Moses is questionable.
How can you say that the story of Adam is a myth even the story passes in old testament and Quran ? so that means you dont beleive in christianity and also islam , you dont beleive in Jesus or Mohammad and God of Jesus and Mohammad and Adam because you seem like you accept somethings from Bible but some things you dont beleive so that means you beleive in yourself only basically faith is this if you beleive in religion like christianity or islam you must accept everything that religion says you can not create new christianity or islam
I accept that for Muslims the Qur'an is a holy book every bit as much as the Bible is the holy book for Christians. What makes a book holy?
After making comparessions with these books you would decide that these are man made words or God's words if you decide that they are God's words then they are Holy books is that clear?
The Bible claims to be the word of God and so does the Qur'an. My question which is yet unanswered is "Why should I accept your version of faith over anyone else's?
You should beleive in islam because when i (you) make comparession inbetween christianity and islam,( you should read Quran and learn Mohammad's teaching to make comparession) islam is logical religon because abviously God of Jesus can sent another messenger after Jesus if you know and accept Jesus is a prophet of God and God did sent prophets before then. and you should tell to yourself what makes you beleive? (magic? words? etc...)
You say that Bible says many things what Quran says , yes that is true because in the end both came from same God but christians changed part the Bible and God did not finished His sentences with Bible , finished with Quran that is why you should beleive in islam , and that is why since Mohammad no one came as prophet since 600s AD
There are many parts of the Christian Bible that appear to predict things of the future. These are simply a matter of interpretation and nothing more.
In the Muslim culture Mohammad is the prophet. This does not make him the prophet for other cultures.
God is everything's God so His prophets is everones prophets who beleive in that God.
As far as "truth" goes I believe there is ultimate truth but that none of us here on earth actually totally understand that truth. That ultimate truth as far as I can see is the ultimate reality, the Divine, God, Allah or whatever. I do not believe that God encourages war or murder except in the nature of self defense.
Do you realize that you want God to want what you want? like many others
I really can say that you dont know well about truth
You seem to me that you have many and partly informations like a puzzle but you dont know how to put the pieces togather.
if i was you i would look at in my hand what i have (information wise)
Do i see existence of God (yes its so clear) then do i know that did God speak to mankind? according to many proves and history yes if you have doubt about history like you said above about Story of Adam You should doubt about napolion or ceasar or lincoln or G washinton...
then i look what God told those prophets try to figure out what God wants from me, then i probably figure out islam in the end ..
To refer to Jesus as God is a rather difficult situation. God is One. Anything that we can say about the Divine is pure metaphor and nothing else. We, as humans, do not have the language with which to talk about God beyond using metaphor. As Christians we believe that the One God has manifest Himself/Herself in three different ways. What we see in Jesus is the manifestation of the One true God. This is not to deny that Mohammad was and is a prophet. He is for Muslims.
in true beleif, there can be only one truth and you cant accept part of what God says that is why we accept Jesus, Bible (before changed i mean Original one that Jesus said) other prophets, holy books, angels, doom day, judgement day and good and bad things comes to us from God
We as Christians do not believe that God is so petty as to worry about what people say about Him/Her. God is above and beyond that. We do not believe that God worries about what we say about the prophets. God is beyond that. If God is almighty He/She could do something about that but has chosen not to do so.
You dont accept the story of Adam so you can not be christian right? because Bible tells about Adam and his existence ? beleiving is accepting
I am as adamant about my Christian faith as you are about Islam. For you Islam is the right path. I do not try to convert Muslims and I have no desire to convert to Islam. I have studied the other great faiths to a certain extent and have made my choice.
We as Christians do not hassle Christians who convert to Islam and some have and that is fine. By the same token I also know what happens to a Muslim if he/she converts to Christianity. I am sure that the Divine is very disappointed in those who murder others for such reasons.
As I am a muslim asking people to convert in islam, i try to explain islam as much as i can , you can always ask me anything you want
Shalom
Ted:-6
FATE is the secret unknown thing for us
Allah wanted to create earth and for endless life heaven and hell and Allah wanted to fill both this is what Allah wanted
If Allah wanted everyone beleives then everyone would beleive but Allah did not wanted that,
we just dont know who will be the one of these
Why Do We Exist ?
Clover:-6
You spoke of them wanting to kill Gallileo. Let us not forget the inquisition or the Crusades.
Now let us look at the other side of the coin. Muslims fight and kill each other. They kill those who convert to another religion. They use suicide bombers to kill innocent folks. They used aircraft to bring down the twin towers and kill over 3 000 people. Christianity does not have a monopoly on terrorist activities and neither does Islam. Is this Islam. In fact the Muslims I have met in Canada claim that the above does not represent true Islam.
I am open minded and I have studied different faiths and have made my choice. Your question about "Is it worth the risk? could be asked by anyone in Christianity and especially the fundamentalists. That is nothing more than a scare tactic which I believe has no place in any faith. If one has to use threats to gain members what does that say about the organization? As I have said the Qur'an is the sacred scriptures for the Muslims but for Christians it is the Bible.
The Bible becomes for Christians the word of God by virtue of the fact that God speaks to us through the Bible but not because of its authorship. The Bible is man's reaction to his experiences of the Divine. The Bible is a book composed of myth, legend, folk tale, poetry, short story, fiction, theology etc. It is written in a style called Midrash which makes extensive use of metaphor and allegory. It is primarily a religious book and is not intended to be a history book not is it intended to be taken literally.
I do not have to take the Bible literally to find the truth in it. Something does not have to be historically accurate to present profound truths.
I am a Christian and yes Adam is a myth borrowed from the Sumarians who lived in southern Mesopotamia. The story of Noah was borrowed from the Mesopotamians and is not an historical event. No I don't believe in myself. I trust in God.
I will repeat I've compared Christianity with others and I have chosen Christianity.
Clover, of course I don't know anything. I've only spent the last 44 or so years studying religious faith. I am trained in Hebrew and Greek translation, biblical history, theology, the history of the Bible etc. I continue to study at the Vancouver School of Theology. So to say that I don't know anything is a little funny to me. However, I take no offense. You are entitled to your beliefs as I am mine. I respect your's. Do you respect mine?
Truth is rather illusive. I don't believe that any one of us has a real understanding of truth. We understand bits and pieces. We do not understand it in totality.
I will say it again. Faith is not about believing the right or correct thing. It is about "trust" in God.
It would appear to me that you are making and admirable effort to convert me. I am not making any such effort to convert you. I have made my choice and nothing you have said has convinced me to believe otherwise.
In this post I have asked some important questions. I do hope you will answer them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You spoke of them wanting to kill Gallileo. Let us not forget the inquisition or the Crusades.
Now let us look at the other side of the coin. Muslims fight and kill each other. They kill those who convert to another religion. They use suicide bombers to kill innocent folks. They used aircraft to bring down the twin towers and kill over 3 000 people. Christianity does not have a monopoly on terrorist activities and neither does Islam. Is this Islam. In fact the Muslims I have met in Canada claim that the above does not represent true Islam.
I am open minded and I have studied different faiths and have made my choice. Your question about "Is it worth the risk? could be asked by anyone in Christianity and especially the fundamentalists. That is nothing more than a scare tactic which I believe has no place in any faith. If one has to use threats to gain members what does that say about the organization? As I have said the Qur'an is the sacred scriptures for the Muslims but for Christians it is the Bible.
The Bible becomes for Christians the word of God by virtue of the fact that God speaks to us through the Bible but not because of its authorship. The Bible is man's reaction to his experiences of the Divine. The Bible is a book composed of myth, legend, folk tale, poetry, short story, fiction, theology etc. It is written in a style called Midrash which makes extensive use of metaphor and allegory. It is primarily a religious book and is not intended to be a history book not is it intended to be taken literally.
I do not have to take the Bible literally to find the truth in it. Something does not have to be historically accurate to present profound truths.
I am a Christian and yes Adam is a myth borrowed from the Sumarians who lived in southern Mesopotamia. The story of Noah was borrowed from the Mesopotamians and is not an historical event. No I don't believe in myself. I trust in God.
I will repeat I've compared Christianity with others and I have chosen Christianity.
Clover, of course I don't know anything. I've only spent the last 44 or so years studying religious faith. I am trained in Hebrew and Greek translation, biblical history, theology, the history of the Bible etc. I continue to study at the Vancouver School of Theology. So to say that I don't know anything is a little funny to me. However, I take no offense. You are entitled to your beliefs as I am mine. I respect your's. Do you respect mine?
Truth is rather illusive. I don't believe that any one of us has a real understanding of truth. We understand bits and pieces. We do not understand it in totality.
I will say it again. Faith is not about believing the right or correct thing. It is about "trust" in God.
It would appear to me that you are making and admirable effort to convert me. I am not making any such effort to convert you. I have made my choice and nothing you have said has convinced me to believe otherwise.
In this post I have asked some important questions. I do hope you will answer them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ted: Beautifully put. I know that your prose is of less concern to you than your point, but when roused you have a stateliness that stirs my mind. Have you read Shakespeare?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Cloverleaf: Hi there.
The strength of your conviction is there to be seen and I'm sure is genuine.
It is not easy for us ordinary people - not diplomats or very rich - to meet and understand people from other parts of the world outside the tourist parts. Can you tell us yourself a bit more about yourself? Who am I writing to?
So you understand: I'm someone who supported the invasion of Iraq to liberate the people from Saddam Hussein. That's the main reason I supported the invasion. Subsequent events have made me wince, but that's a discussion for another place if you like. I've never been to an Arab country, but have known many Muslims of Pakistani origin without ever discussing matters of faith.
The strength of your conviction is there to be seen and I'm sure is genuine.It is not easy for us ordinary people - not diplomats or very rich - to meet and understand people from other parts of the world outside the tourist parts. Can you tell us yourself a bit more about yourself? Who am I writing to?
So you understand: I'm someone who supported the invasion of Iraq to liberate the people from Saddam Hussein. That's the main reason I supported the invasion. Subsequent events have made me wince, but that's a discussion for another place if you like. I've never been to an Arab country, but have known many Muslims of Pakistani origin without ever discussing matters of faith.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Why Do We Exist ?
Clodhopper:-6
Thanks.
Yes I've read some of Shakespeare.
I just hope that Clover will respond to my questions. I've met Muslims here in Canada who make no effort to proselytize or convert others. They are a very peace loving group.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Thanks.
Yes I've read some of Shakespeare.
I just hope that Clover will respond to my questions. I've met Muslims here in Canada who make no effort to proselytize or convert others. They are a very peace loving group.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why Do We Exist ?
After about two weeks and no response to my questions I can only conclude that Clover did not like to respond to questions that tended towards Islamic Fundamentalism.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Why Do We Exist ?
Ah well. Doesn't matter the religion, small f fundamentlists are generally the same in that. I'll mention Jester as an honourable exception to that.
I'll admit to salivating at the prospect of a discussion between Jester and a seriously, um. "hardcore Islamist":D
But that's just naughty of me...:wah:
I'll admit to salivating at the prospect of a discussion between Jester and a seriously, um. "hardcore Islamist":D
But that's just naughty of me...:wah:
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Why Do We Exist ?
Isn't their some commandment about killing??? LOL
Even the Holy Qur'an says that the Muslim must not attack first only in self defense after being attacked. Perhaps they view western interference, for oil, as an attack?
Apparently Clover was here to proselytize which is not part of the style of the Muslims I happen to know. Perhaps he was a fundamentalist?
Shalom
Ted:-6
Even the Holy Qur'an says that the Muslim must not attack first only in self defense after being attacked. Perhaps they view western interference, for oil, as an attack?
Apparently Clover was here to proselytize which is not part of the style of the Muslims I happen to know. Perhaps he was a fundamentalist?
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why Do We Exist ?
JerryG;887513 wrote: [
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
Yeshus stated in the Gospels to pray to God in a quiet room. If you understand the meaning of the Tower of Babel Story, you will see quite a difference between what Yeshua preaches and the Catholic Church.
Thus the best way to pray to God is alone or with your family.
As far as my relationship with God is concerned, I am a Jewish Prophet of God. I speak to God and God speaks to me. My job is to explain the coming end of times to mankind. This I do with math and equations. I give man the structure of God and the Universe. I give the structure of the neutron, proton, and electron. I give the equations of gravity. All this information comes from the mind of God.
The greatest scientific minds of this Earth could not solve these problems. I could not solve these problems. It is only the Revelations of 1981, 2006, and this years that presents the delimma to mankind that a lake of fire is heading this way and this entire galaxy will be gone in a split second. I do not know the exact time. I do not want to know but man will soon understand that this galaxy will soon be gone and nothing at all will be left. All the Churches and monuments will be gone.
All the works of man will be gone.
Salvation is for the faithful. I am not a religious prophet. That is not my job. I am religiously neutral. My job is to explain the science of God and the Universe to mankind.
Hi JerryG-
I was under the impression from my scant protestant training that we humans were made in God's image (maybe I overstated this using the word vanity) and that we are to worship God in church and/or wherever there are two or more people. I think this belief came from the Bible.
Erin
Yeshus stated in the Gospels to pray to God in a quiet room. If you understand the meaning of the Tower of Babel Story, you will see quite a difference between what Yeshua preaches and the Catholic Church.
Thus the best way to pray to God is alone or with your family.
As far as my relationship with God is concerned, I am a Jewish Prophet of God. I speak to God and God speaks to me. My job is to explain the coming end of times to mankind. This I do with math and equations. I give man the structure of God and the Universe. I give the structure of the neutron, proton, and electron. I give the equations of gravity. All this information comes from the mind of God.
The greatest scientific minds of this Earth could not solve these problems. I could not solve these problems. It is only the Revelations of 1981, 2006, and this years that presents the delimma to mankind that a lake of fire is heading this way and this entire galaxy will be gone in a split second. I do not know the exact time. I do not want to know but man will soon understand that this galaxy will soon be gone and nothing at all will be left. All the Churches and monuments will be gone.
All the works of man will be gone.
Salvation is for the faithful. I am not a religious prophet. That is not my job. I am religiously neutral. My job is to explain the science of God and the Universe to mankind.
Why Do We Exist ?
Today............I do not know why?
I honestly do not know.
Is it to see how many times we crawl back up after being knocked down time after time?
I am beginning to wonder.
I honestly do not know.
Is it to see how many times we crawl back up after being knocked down time after time?
I am beginning to wonder.
It's nice to be important,but more important to be nice.
Why Do We Exist ?
Jester;904998 wrote: JerryG,
What revelations in 1981 and 2006 and 'this year' are you refering to?
I am 69 years old now. I have communicated with God since I was about 3 years old. All my life, my conversations were private to me alone. I never thought that I was special or had any significance. The Holocaust bothered me and in 1980 God finally told me that he did something during the holocaust. I was happy and wanted no more information.
In 1981 God or an angel of God came through my basement wall and stood before me. He gave me a job to do. I was to be God's scientific prophet. He told me to work and study. He gave me interesting scientific data but not complete data. I worked on it. From 1981 to 2006, my only communication with God was for personal things. One day I had double pnemonia and the end was near. I called upon God and he told me to put a heating pad on my chest. I did and fell asleep. I awoke cured. I have been radiated by God in 1981. I glowed for 3 days. I have been persecuted by God and forced to obey.
In 2006, the final answers flowed into my mind. It was horrible. the center of the galaxy had already exploded and a lake of fire was heading this way. I put it aside and studied the data. Finally two weeks ago correction were transmitted into my mind while I slept. Now I have all the scientific data so that scientific man will understand the structure of God and the Universe.
I am just another Jewish madman. Yet what I say will come to pass.
What revelations in 1981 and 2006 and 'this year' are you refering to?
I am 69 years old now. I have communicated with God since I was about 3 years old. All my life, my conversations were private to me alone. I never thought that I was special or had any significance. The Holocaust bothered me and in 1980 God finally told me that he did something during the holocaust. I was happy and wanted no more information.
In 1981 God or an angel of God came through my basement wall and stood before me. He gave me a job to do. I was to be God's scientific prophet. He told me to work and study. He gave me interesting scientific data but not complete data. I worked on it. From 1981 to 2006, my only communication with God was for personal things. One day I had double pnemonia and the end was near. I called upon God and he told me to put a heating pad on my chest. I did and fell asleep. I awoke cured. I have been radiated by God in 1981. I glowed for 3 days. I have been persecuted by God and forced to obey.
In 2006, the final answers flowed into my mind. It was horrible. the center of the galaxy had already exploded and a lake of fire was heading this way. I put it aside and studied the data. Finally two weeks ago correction were transmitted into my mind while I slept. Now I have all the scientific data so that scientific man will understand the structure of God and the Universe.
I am just another Jewish madman. Yet what I say will come to pass.
Why Do We Exist ?
Jester;906531 wrote: JerryG,
I am a skeptic of course... I do not belive for one second that what you wrote is true. I think your second to last sentence sums it up. However we can test it if your game. Make a specific prophetical statement and then if it comes to pass I will believe you. if it doesn't then your a fasle prophet and we both know where a false prophet has his alliance don't we?
BTW I don't mean what I just said as picking a fight, Im just speaking matter of factly.
I am not a prophet of the future. I am not a religious prophet. I was given one particular job to do. I was given sufficient information to explain the physics of the universe to mankind. I was shown a matter to photonic converter which will provide mankind with all the power needed into the far future. However I was also shown the means by which this galaxy will be erased.
If the data received from God is false, then I am a false prophet. If the data received from God is true, then all scientists will understand that this galaxy will be history in the not too far future.
I am a skeptic of course... I do not belive for one second that what you wrote is true. I think your second to last sentence sums it up. However we can test it if your game. Make a specific prophetical statement and then if it comes to pass I will believe you. if it doesn't then your a fasle prophet and we both know where a false prophet has his alliance don't we?
BTW I don't mean what I just said as picking a fight, Im just speaking matter of factly.
I am not a prophet of the future. I am not a religious prophet. I was given one particular job to do. I was given sufficient information to explain the physics of the universe to mankind. I was shown a matter to photonic converter which will provide mankind with all the power needed into the far future. However I was also shown the means by which this galaxy will be erased.
If the data received from God is false, then I am a false prophet. If the data received from God is true, then all scientists will understand that this galaxy will be history in the not too far future.
Why Do We Exist ?
Jester;909268 wrote: So what?
So far all your saying is that you've been told something, I dont hear you telling anyone else what was told to you, I dont see a photon converter, and I dont see you revealing to science nor anyone else how or even why the world will end.
Enlighten us...
I just sent out my equations and information to 70 professors at the leading universities. I am still working on the latest data I received. I can put up some of it in the garden. I need about another week or so to finish my calculations.
The equations and understanding of the four forces acting upon the universe has been explained to me and I in turn will explain it to the world.
The end of the world will occur when the lake of fire from the exploding black hole reaches us. I do not know when. I do not want to know when. It most likely will be sooner than later. However everything will end in a split second so that no pain and suffering will occur. Therefore it is best to enjoy our lives until the end.
The photon converter is a means of obtaining photonic energy (light energy) from our material. The A bomb does this but the photonic converter can use ordinary materials such as iron, etc. Some scientists are already attempting to do this and once they understand the structure of the four forces, then it will be easy to do.
So far all your saying is that you've been told something, I dont hear you telling anyone else what was told to you, I dont see a photon converter, and I dont see you revealing to science nor anyone else how or even why the world will end.
Enlighten us...
I just sent out my equations and information to 70 professors at the leading universities. I am still working on the latest data I received. I can put up some of it in the garden. I need about another week or so to finish my calculations.
The equations and understanding of the four forces acting upon the universe has been explained to me and I in turn will explain it to the world.
The end of the world will occur when the lake of fire from the exploding black hole reaches us. I do not know when. I do not want to know when. It most likely will be sooner than later. However everything will end in a split second so that no pain and suffering will occur. Therefore it is best to enjoy our lives until the end.
The photon converter is a means of obtaining photonic energy (light energy) from our material. The A bomb does this but the photonic converter can use ordinary materials such as iron, etc. Some scientists are already attempting to do this and once they understand the structure of the four forces, then it will be easy to do.
Why Do We Exist ?
JerryG;910341 wrote: I just sent out my equations and information to 70 professors at the leading universities. I am still working on the latest data I received. I can put up some of it in the garden. I need about another week or so to finish my calculations.
The equations and understanding of the four forces acting upon the universe has been explained to me and I in turn will explain it to the world.
The end of the world will occur when the lake of fire from the exploding black hole reaches us. I do not know when. I do not want to know when. It most likely will be sooner than later. However everything will end in a split second so that no pain and suffering will occur. Therefore it is best to enjoy our lives until the end.
The photon converter is a means of obtaining photonic energy (light energy) from our material. The A bomb does this but the photonic converter can use ordinary materials such as iron, etc. Some scientists are already attempting to do this and once they understand the structure of the four forces, then it will be easy to do.
Hey Jerry---------before the Big Catyclismic Event hits do you have any surefire Stock Market Tips?
The equations and understanding of the four forces acting upon the universe has been explained to me and I in turn will explain it to the world.
The end of the world will occur when the lake of fire from the exploding black hole reaches us. I do not know when. I do not want to know when. It most likely will be sooner than later. However everything will end in a split second so that no pain and suffering will occur. Therefore it is best to enjoy our lives until the end.
The photon converter is a means of obtaining photonic energy (light energy) from our material. The A bomb does this but the photonic converter can use ordinary materials such as iron, etc. Some scientists are already attempting to do this and once they understand the structure of the four forces, then it will be easy to do.
Hey Jerry---------before the Big Catyclismic Event hits do you have any surefire Stock Market Tips?
Why Do We Exist ?
Lon;910391 wrote: Hey Jerry---------before the Big Catyclismic Event hits do you have any surefire Stock Market Tips?
I sure don't. Hopefully the horrific event will be years from now. It is very upsetting to me that nothing of this universe will be left. All that man has built will be gone. The universe will be replaced by a new universe. Primitive man will come back about 15 billion years from now. We will go through all the horror of the past again. Then we will reach the age of reason and scientific understanding. Then man will be destroyed again. At least we get a rest from existence at this level.
Many of us will go on to higher existence. The stock market will not be necessary at that level.
I sure don't. Hopefully the horrific event will be years from now. It is very upsetting to me that nothing of this universe will be left. All that man has built will be gone. The universe will be replaced by a new universe. Primitive man will come back about 15 billion years from now. We will go through all the horror of the past again. Then we will reach the age of reason and scientific understanding. Then man will be destroyed again. At least we get a rest from existence at this level.
Many of us will go on to higher existence. The stock market will not be necessary at that level.