Another Question about Responsibility

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:30 am

Eleanor Roosevelt supposedly said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

Something I personally don't buy.

I just saw the same thing quoted here at FG in different words so it has me thinking.

In Asian culture, most notably Chinese culture, people take responsibility for their words and deeds. (I am speaking in a general sense here) If an Asian person offends you he or she will immediately make a serious effort to right the wrong. He or she takes responsibility for making you feel bad. It is their fault.

By contrast, here in America, we (again general sense) take the Roosevelt approach and say "Not my fault, man."

It's "if you get offended by what I say, that's your problem." You can see it here at FG. How many times do we (and I count myself here) say "Don't like what I said? Don't read it!" Or some similar thing.

Anyone who's been here long enough has seen me lose my temper and show some really inappropriate behavior toward certain people. It was easy at first to say "Tough, it's YOUR problem if I offended you" but when the temper cools down, it's much easier to recognize those offended people as fellow humans. It may not always be easy to admit wrongdoing or fault and try to make amends, but I've found that admission of fault and a sincere apology are almost always worth the while.

I wouldn't suggest that western civilization turn Asian overnight or that Asian civilization need adopt western lack of etiquette but I think there's something to be learned from both sides. Maybe it's just me but I find the contrast amusing and sometimes even aggravating.

Any thoughts?

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:44 am

I know from personal experience that people can make you feel inferior, completely without your consent.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:48 am

I'm a nice, easy going person, it takes a lot for me to lose my temper. If i offended anybody i meant to & make no apology for it.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:49 am

I personally would like to leave this world knowing that whilst I was on it I treated others how I would like to be treated myself. Words can and have hurt me, I have been hurt many times by words said and typed. Maybe im too emotional but I cant change that. I dont like mean people who try and hurt others to make themselves feel better.

If I have/had ever said or typed something that offended someone and I was made aware of it id apologise.

I wouldnt think, tough or deal with it their my views I dont give a fig about yours ..Id think I was in the wrong and I should of worded it better.

People have to be made responsible for their actions.

Name calling is so childish and people who think it clever to put others down by that form are weak individuals in my eyes.

It all boils down to good manners and being honourable to each other.

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:54 am

I am very easygoing and have no temper, if i've ever hurt anybody it's been completely by accident, because it would never be my intention to do so on purpose!

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:01 am

I think that sometimes you have to realise that giving your honest opinion is not more important than another persons feelings, sometimes its best just to know yourself and realise it dont really matter if someone else dont agree with you, or if you dont agree with them. Some people just have to have their say no matter how hurtful it can be to another, i dont think that is neccessary at all. If i had offended or upset someone without meaning to, once i realised i had upset them i would apologise, whereas some people would themselves be offended and angry thet the other person took offence! everyones different and some might get upset at things you wouldnt,, that dont mean they are being silly or ridiculous, it just means they are maybe a bit more sensitive,, like i said we are all diferent there has to be some give and take.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:04 am

Hope6;906985 wrote: I am very easygoing and have no temper, if i've ever hurt anybody it's been completely by accident, because it would never be my intention to do so on purpose!Oh Hope............you couldn't hurt a fly my darlin;)

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:07 am

Wow i'm amazed, so if someone hurt you rather than say anything in case you hurt them back you'd just leave it?

Never met such an innocent bunch of people, are you guys sure your telling the truth? :sneaky:

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:09 am

buttercup;906999 wrote: Wow i'm amazed, so if someone hurt you rather than say anything in case you hurt them back you'd just leave it?

Never met such an innocent bunch of people, are you guys sure your telling the truth? :sneaky:

No i did'nt mean that,, if someone hurt me i would tell them ,, yes. but i dont think i would go all out to immediately hurt them back

that wouldnt really serve a purpose for me.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:11 am

So you would just say - you hurt me, i wish you hadent & leave it?

If so - i'm impressed, way to go Kaz

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:18 am

buttercup;907003 wrote: So you would just say - you hurt me, i wish you hadent & leave it?

If so - i'm impressed, way to go Kaz

well i would let them know thet their remarks were hurtful and see where it went,, maybe they hadnt realised at the time,,,, if they were aware but not bothered,, being more concerned about their right to have their say,,, then i would probably just not bother with that person anymore,, I have no problem with someone having a different opnion to me, even if i feel really strongly against it, but i dont think its neccessary to be rude to someone and call them names or become peronal because they dont agree with you, or wont listen to you. I suppose really it also depends on the situation, exactly what has happened ,, been said,, or done,, wether on the internet, or in real life

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:27 am

kazalala;907011 wrote: well i would let them know thet their remarks were hurtful and see where it went,, maybe they hadnt realised at the time,,,, if they were aware but not bothered,, being more concerned about their right to have their say,,, then i would probably just not bother with that person anymore,, I have no problem with someone having a different opnion to me, even if i feel really strongly against it, but i dont think its neccessary to be rude to someone and call them names or become peronal because they dont agree with you, or wont listen to you. I suppose really it also depends on the situation, exactly what has happened ,, been said,, or done,, wether on the internet, or in real life

well said twinny:D

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:27 am

Chezzie;907017 wrote: well said twinny:D

:wah::wah:

Dewey2Me1MoThyme · Post by **Dewey2Me1MoThyme** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:01 am

I have no problem apologizing if I think I did or said something uncalled for, or mean spiritted. I try my best to treat others as I would like to be treated. However, with that said, I will also stand up for myself and others I care about or if I see someone being picked on, whether a friend or not. But trust me, there is no need to pick on yours truly, i know my faults, and they are many, and I dew a pretty fair job of beating myself up over them, so your energy would really be better served to dew likewise if the need be. :-5 For those that think, too bad if you got hurt, it's only words ... remember, so are apologies! :-5

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:05 am

People get to know that they have hurt my feelings but I do take a step back and look at the situation first. So.. when I get the chance to tell them why they hurt my feelings the whole situation has calmed down and it can be discussed, suddenly things aren't so bad as they seemed. How often has a friend said something and when you've tackled them about it they admit to having had a bad day and they realise that came through in the way they spoke to you.

On the other side of all this is the fact that often the truth hurts, I've had to tell people I love some hard truths, they don't want to hear it at the time, but once they've had time to cool off they generally thank me for it. I am not a confrontational person, if someone is angry and will not listen I walk away and come back later.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:07 am

rjwould;907033 wrote: Define "bad" feelings.....list them

no:p:p:p:wah:

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:12 am

I agree with Buttercup on this. It has also made me stop and thinks about the words I'm about to write or say for a long time before I do so. You can say your sorry but the damage is already done. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK OR WRITE. Offending another human being just makes everyone feel bad and your point is lost.

[QUOTE]I'm a nice, easy going person, it takes a lot for me to lose my temper. If i offended anybody i meant to & make no apology for it.[/QUOTE]

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:29 am

Were all too different for there to be one right way.

Im certain I adjust myself accordingly as Im with varying personalities.

Thats what works for me.

Im still me at the end of the day.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:43 am

buttercup;906977 wrote: I'm a nice, easy going person, it takes a lot for me to lose my temper. If i offended anybody i meant to & make no apology for it.

I couldn't have said that better myself...

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:12 am

rjwould;907076 wrote: I'm sure many would like to adopt buttercups approach. While I'm sure its true too to a certain extent, peoples feeling do get hurt unbeknown to us.

It begins with scenarios like little Johnny or Mary runs out in the street and mom or dad says "you made me scared" rather than "running out into the road could cause harm to you" (leaving feelings out of it). Feelings need not be brought into teaching children as they grow other than to help them understand their own feelings. The fact that the mother or father may have become scared by what junior did is a feeling that was implanted there at some other time way before the child was even born. Being scared is considered to be a "bad" feeling by most American people, however, making junior responsible for mom or dad being revisited by that feeling is not nor should it be something he needs to worry about. Johnny or Mary can be taught without having to be made responible for mom and dads feelings.

Well I don't know about how you were brought up but on instances similar to this I was told as to why I shouldn't run into the street...And it most certainly emphasized on the fact that it would injure myself, and I had known what injury was because I was a kid and most presumably to any child a kid knows what pain is and they can make that association...This doesn't mean that my parents hadn't also expressed their concern...But for anyone to emphasize their concern over the sheer desire to teach their children technically as opposed to their concerns derived from raw emotion is not only stupid but selfish...

Being scared should never be a "bad" feeling because what intales is the minimization of fortitude by those inflicted...

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:12 am

Carolly;906997 wrote: Oh Hope............you couldn't hurt a fly my darlin;)

:wah::wah: it's funny you said it like that Sis, like what i said on another thread just this morning, i don't even own a fly swatter, i actually can't hurt a fly. :wah:

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:16 am

buttercup;906999 wrote: Wow i'm amazed, so if someone hurt you rather than say anything in case you hurt them back you'd just leave it?

Never met such an innocent bunch of people, are you guys sure your telling the truth? :sneaky:

no! if someone hurt me i would let it be known, but i'm not a vengeful person, i'm a forgive and forget type of person.

and of course i'm telling the truth! :wah: i'm actually talked about quite a bit by people who know me as being somewhat unique in the fact that they have never seen me angry! :-6

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:20 am

rjwould;907085 wrote: Glad to hear that. There are of course many adults that understand the concept of responsibility of feelings as apparently your parents did. And I totally agree with your last sentence.

Oh ok...

You agree...I have to agree with your first response to me as well...I believe I read you wrong for a minute...

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:21 am

kazalala;907011 wrote: well i would let them know thet their remarks were hurtful and see where it went,, maybe they hadnt realised at the time,,,, if they were aware but not bothered,, being more concerned about their right to have their say,,, then i would probably just not bother with that person anymore,, I have no problem with someone having a different opnion to me, even if i feel really strongly against it, but i dont think its neccessary to be rude to someone and call them names or become peronal because they dont agree with you, or wont listen to you. I suppose really it also depends on the situation, exactly what has happened ,, been said,, or done,, wether on the internet, or in real life

very well said Kaz!

there's never any reason to be rude or call anybody names!

and i will not stand and argue with anybody, i'll been yelled at quite a bit in my life and i don't stand for it any longer, if someone starts in on me i leave the situation, they can't argue by themselves but so long!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:37 am

rjwould;907098 wrote: I've quite often wondered why a majority of the American population gets this backwards. I then realized that our entire economic concept is predicated on it, and then it made sense to me and I began to really understand why.

I'm curious as to the conclusion you've come up with...

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:40 am

RedGlitter;906965 wrote: Eleanor Roosevelt supposedly said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

Something I personally don't buy.

I just saw the same thing quoted here at FG in different words so it has me thinking.

In Asian culture, most notably Chinese culture, people take responsibility for their words and deeds. (I am speaking in a general sense here) If an Asian person offends you he or she will immediately make a serious effort to right the wrong. He or she takes responsibility for making you feel bad. It is their fault.

By contrast, here in America, we (again general sense) take the Roosevelt approach and say "Not my fault, man."

It's "if you get offended by what I say, that's your problem." You can see it here at FG. How many times do we (and I count myself here) say "Don't like what I said? Don't read it!" Or some similar thing.

Anyone who's been here long enough has seen me lose my temper and show some really inappropriate behavior toward certain people. It was easy at first to say "Tough, it's YOUR problem if I offended you" but when the temper cools down, it's much easier to recognize those offended people as fellow humans. It may not always be easy to admit wrongdoing or fault and try to make amends, but I've found that admission of fault and a sincere apology are almost always worth the while.

I wouldn't suggest that western civilization turn Asian overnight or that Asian civilization need adopt western lack of etiquette but I think there's something to be learned from both sides. Maybe it's just me but I find the contrast amusing and sometimes even aggravating.

Any thoughts?

It depends on how one views people on this Forum Red. I like some posts and posters more than others. I enjoy and like people and consider my self a extrovert, but for the most part really view people on this forum as if they were characters in a novel, and the reason for this is that I really don't know anything at all about them other than what they choose to tell us. Note-------very few use there real names-----very few bother to complete a profile and even then, is it real? I have received PM's from some posters and appreciate them, but I still don't know that person.

My grandmother would talk to people on the radio and later on the TV like they were in the room with her. Many on the net are not much different.

The net, and Forums in particular, allow one to live in another world for the time they are on line, that's not to say that they are dishonest. I use my real name and picture to try and establish some credibility. I have been sworn at, villified, slandered and otherwise abused (use nets). I could care less and I don't get upset about it. If I was confronted face to face and the same things said, the other person would be spitting teeth.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:05 pm

rjwould;907113 wrote: American capitalism is based on pleasing other people. Whether one works for somebody else or themselves, everything we do is to make others happy so that they will pay for services rendered. Observe all the advertisements on TV, radio, and in print. Whats the message? This product or service or ambiance will make you happier than you are at this moment. Think about why we try to get a smile out of others rather than a frown, its because it is a success to make others happy. Its how we make a living.

It has become a problem however, because we have permitted a blurring in the idea of the necessity of pleasing others for financial gain and permitting that concept into every other area of our private lives. So, it becomes the other persons fault if I don't walk away happy after a conversation or evening together. I don't like gold digging women...

I don't necessarily see the whole "happiness" clause you're implementing...Murdering is a business and it always has been and God forbid it always will be...

One thing I can agree on is that Capitalism without appropriate containment will, God forbid, always produce fascist ideals when morality is of no virtue and most certainly anyone can agree that that entire scenario is not exactly responsible...

But surely another topic...

rjwould;907113 wrote:

Marriages break up right and left because couples don't understand the concept of personal responsibility for feelings. Couples cheat on one another because their partner is not making them "feel" wanted and loved.

"responsibility for feelings" is just another form of morality...The only responsibility I see associated with others' feelings is ones own responsibility in being a likable person by means of liking themselves,..which ultimately paves the way for others liking themselves for having taken a likeness to "you"...