How long must the world wait ?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:09 am

I've always viewed God quite literally as our Father. As kids, we really can't see the whole picture. Think of a toddler trying to walk. the little tike gets up, takes a few steps (or one step :p ) then falls and bumps his butt. It's painful! He cries and holds his little hands up to you to pick him up and make it all better. His tears are heartbreaking, but you let him cry because you know the bigger picture. He soon tries again, and again. Far too soon, he's on the varsity track team thinking about college.

Maybe all this mayhem that is a major pain in our collective asses is really nothing serious at all, given the bigger picture. Maybe it's our job to learn from it, fix it, stand back up and carry on.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:46 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: We quite clearly cant get it right and havent for thousands and thousands of years . Its abut time Him upstairs came and gave us all a sharp slap across the back of the legs, after all you wouldnt allow your child to so persistently get it wrong without the proper guidance and education.You would step in ,right ?
This is my whole point. A good parent wouldn't. God is a good parent. Therefore, from a biggest-picture perspective, maybe we're the equivalent of siblings working out a petty argument.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:49 am

No one knows the hour or the day, we wait as long as we have to.

We need to live our lives not worrying about the timing, but continue with following the Word.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:06 am

well maybe because he's not actually there

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:08 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: Sorry Millions of children starving in Africa is not trying to settle a petty arguement....big picture or no big picture

He should not allow that to happen if he is an all caring God

WHERE IS HE ?

And stop making excuses for him !
You're right! We should sue! He should be fired! Obviously incompetent. I guess if you can't trust God to do it for us, we'll just have to do it ourselves, eh?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:28 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: Accountable...with respect thats my whole point ...WE CANT !
Respectfully disagree. we can. You're talking about man's inhumanity to man. Not once did you talk about earthquakes, tsunamis, or other things we really can't control (at least not yet).

A wonderful book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People (Stephen Covey) points out that we have things we are concerned about and things we can influence. If one concentrates one's energies on the things one can influence, one will fine that the Circle of Influence (his term) will expand and grow. My circle is infinitescimally small, George Bush's is very large. Gandi's started very small, yet look at what he accomplished.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:03 am

Maybe if we saw death through GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s eyes it wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be what we considered the ultimate evil.

Maybe if we saw death through GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s eyes, we wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t fear it.

If there wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t such a thing as darkness, we wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know there is light.

If there wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t such a thing as evil, we wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know there is good.

If people didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t experience tragedy, what opportunity would there be for mercy.

If we had ultimate knowledge, wisdom, power and all the other attributes of God we could enter into a debate with Him about how he does things.

He wants us to have faith in Him (God is love) and grow in that faith.

Without trials and temptations faith wouldn't have anyplace to grow.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:06 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: To get back to my original point .Im just saying that a caring God has a responsibility does he not . Otherwise he is not a caring God.

I'm asking him now...If he exists, come and sort this bloody mess out now once and for all
I don't think we've gotten off the point, but I'll be glad to lurk for awhile to see where I'm wrong.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:56 am

Not to create a discussion on the subject but in my understanding the Ã¢â‚¬Å“raptureÃ¢â‚¬ isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t an escape. God has always put his people through tribulation. Just like he did with Job, he does it with us. He does it because we are like metal that doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t bend or give up its impurities unless heat and pressure is applied. If the Ã¢â‚¬Å“raptureÃ¢â‚¬ (word not found in the Bible) was to be an escape, it would have occurred many times already. Many times through history, mankind has experienced much worse tribulation than we face today or see coming in the near future.

Those who are believers and have come to God are as a group, a mess. The Ã¢â‚¬Å“churchÃ¢â‚¬ is so full of garbage it is going to be pretty ugly when God really begins the purification process. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think we should be expecting that he will rescue us until we have finished the prescribed course.

As I understand it, God will not allow his faithful to experience His Ã¢â‚¬Å“wrathÃ¢â‚¬ (word found in the Bible). Only once in history has mankind experienced GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s wrath.

I actually know of people who say that if they aren't "raptured" at some given point...then God doesn't exist. That is the huge danger in the "pre-trib rapture" teaching that is out there today.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:53 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: If we are Gods creation then He is ultimately responsible. I am just asking, how much more suffering is there to be before the second coming. More to the point ....He aint coming ! cos He aint there, otherwise he would have started again from scratch.

India isnt starving by the way, its Africa and they are not starving because they dont eat beef, they are starving for many reasons...drought, flood, war, displacement. Not because of religious choice
Oh PLEASE! paraphrase: "If you don't give me what I want then you don't love me."

Stop your winjing and do what you can. Don't make a list of what you can't do because that's a waste of time. Don't make a list of what others should be doing because that's likewise a waste of time. If there are those you see as not doing their responsibility, do whatever you feel you should to influence them. For cryin' out loud, if the mess bothers you, start cleaning it up.

Arnold, please don't take this as a personal attack. I was getting cramps holding that in. I don't know you from Adam. I scanned your previous posts but could not get a feel for where you are coming from; this is the first time I've found of your views in this area. It just frustrates me to no end that someone would care enough about a thing to complain so vehemently, yet reject any suggestion that something can be done. You may as well complain about the mountain blocking your view.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:51 pm

Not all churches try to control their adherents. That is a theory that cannot be substantiated by observation. On the other hand I do agree that some churches do seem to want and try to exercise such power and in some cases succeed.

I am a Christian Pluralist because I chose to be not because anyone was forcing me to be. I happen to believe in God but from a panentheistic point of view. Please note I said "panentheistic" not "pantheistic..

Such a view also makes a difference in how one sees the Christian Faith. I deeply resent the churches that constantly preach fear to entice members to be "saved". This is a complete misreading of the sacred scriptures.

Shalom

Ted:-6

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:55 pm

OK I'm going to be serious :-5 At the time when world religions identified their Prophets - there was nothing like the communication we have now. It was sequestered societies that endeavorved to make lives more cohesive at the time. Do you think there can EVER be a worldwide Prophet - I think NOT. Do you think certain religions will identify a person within their religions as a Prophet? I don't know. I think Osama has been identified as a strong spiritual leader - bordering on being the prophet to those who follow him. I think that may be his wish but I truely think he is trying to define an entirely new sect only unto himself - false prophet.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:13 pm

Accountable wrote: I've always viewed God quite literally as our Father. As kids, we really can't see the whole picture. Think of a toddler trying to walk. the little tike gets up, takes a few steps (or one step :p ) then falls and bumps his butt. It's painful! He cries and holds his little hands up to you to pick him up and make it all better. His tears are heartbreaking, but you let him cry because you know the bigger picture. He soon tries again, and again. Far too soon, he's on the varsity track team thinking about college.

Maybe all this mayhem that is a major pain in our collective asses is really nothing serious at all, given the bigger picture. Maybe it's our job to learn from it, fix it, stand back up and carry on.
wow. well said Accountable. i like that analogy.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:16 pm

Wolverine wrote: wow. well said Accountable. i like that analogy.
I agree Wolverine. It is a great analogy. Life is a challenge, not a bus ride.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:49 pm

Ted wrote: Not all churches try to control their adherents. That is a theory that cannot be substantiated by observation. On the other hand I do agree that some churches do seem to want and try to exercise such power and in some cases succeed.

I am a Christian Pluralist because I chose to be not because anyone was forcing me to be. I happen to believe in God but from a panentheistic point of view. Please note I said "panentheistic" not "pantheistic..

Such a view also makes a difference in how one sees the Christian Faith. I deeply resent the churches that constantly preach fear to entice members to be "saved". This is a complete misreading of the sacred scriptures.

Shalom

Ted:-6

I'm going to say something very true to my heart. I had a Grandpa that believed ALL girls are born with sin because of the original sin and the sin had to be beaten out of girl children. I like Ted's postings ALL the time because as I see his posts (correct me if I am wrong Ted) religion belongs in the heart of the person - not in the church. What happens in life is our own making - how we perceive life is just another excuse for not accepting life in our limited existence. If we truly believe an afterlife cuts to our core soul and no religion can tell us we are right or wrong then we "know" there is more.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:00 pm

nvalleyee:-6

Generally I would agree with you. Your faith is a very personal thing. God is within all of us and if we go within and listen we will learn.

Personally I enjoy going to church for the teachings that I get as well as the great fellowship with friends and like minded folks. My church is non controlling in any way.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:02 pm

nvalleyvee wrote: I'm going to say something very true to my heart. I had a Grandpa that believed ALL girls are born with sin because of the original sin and the sin had to be beaten out of girl children. I like Ted's postings ALL the time because as I see his posts (correct me if I am wrong Ted) religion belongs in the heart of the person - not in the church. What happens in life is our own making - how we perceive life is just another excuse for not accepting life in our limited existence. If we truly believe an afterlife cuts to our core soul and no religion can tell us we are right or wrong then we "know" there is more.
dang. that's good too. deep. I am at a loss for words.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:06 pm

Ted wrote: nvalleyee:-6

Generally I would agree with you. Your faith is a very personal thing. God is within all of us and if we go within and listen we will learn.

Personally I enjoy going to church for the teachings that I get as well as the great fellowship with friends and like minded folks. My church is non controlling in any way.

Shalom

Ted:-6

The only church I have enjoyed is the Unitarian

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:57 pm

nvalleyee:-6

But at least you found one that you liked. That is positive.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:53 am

Far Rider wrote: Same as the Moose Lodge does to it's members.
:yh_prayAll are welcome to the Holy Church of the Sacred Moose, Led by the Right Reverand Poobah Billy Ray Bastion. :yh_worshp

:yh_rotfl Sorry, couldn't resist.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:15 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: Flopstock ,

Thanks for your post . Its not the first time I've confused all and sundry trying to make a point or ask a question .It 's the convoluted way I think and put down the words.

:yh_starI knew it! Every human has some common thread connecting him to another. You and I are eye to eye on this one, Arnold. :yh_hugs

I always understand things in my own mind but have trouble putting it down , wether typing or writing or even speach.

Nope. Lost me there. Often raw ideas come to me out of left field, and I have to let them steep for awhile to figure them out.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:47 am

flopstock wrote: all the horrific crap going on in our world today.

If you think about it, you could use the same phrase at just about any time in the history of human beings. Many times it was even worse than it is now. What about WWII? or WWI? Or the Civil War? or the Dark Ages? Or the Spanish Inquisition? Or the Roman Times? Or....you name the period!

Things will continue to progress, mankind will continue to solve his problems, new ones will arise to challenge us, but don't wish for the end of the world.

instead... wish for the future.

;)

Sa'at · Post by **Sa'at** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:49 am

He is back! try Baha'i

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:15 am

Sa'at wrote: He is back! try Baha'i
Welcome Sa'at! Help us hicks out. What/who is Baha'i?

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:25 am

Accountable wrote: This is my whole point. A good parent wouldn't. God is a good parent. Therefore, from a biggest-picture perspective, maybe we're the equivalent of siblings working out a petty argument.
Or to put a dimmer spin on it......it has taken so long to achieve the numbers prophesied, that would inhabit the realms of heaven.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:36 am

He came and went, and isn't coming back.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:08 pm

As the Bible describes the second coming of Christ, it says that the saved will be taken to heaven and the lost will die on the earth. It also describes seven last plagues which will fall on the lost but which will leave the saved supernaturally unharmed. If this is to happen, there must first be a judgment to determine who is saved and who is lost.

Interestingly, in the Law of Moses, there was a ceremony that symbolized just such a judgment. It was Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The Jews believed that their sins were written in a book of rememberance. On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest would go into the most holy place in the sanctuary and plead the blood of a very special sacrifice on behalf of the people. They believed that on the Day of Atonement either their sins were blotted out of the book of rememberance or their names were blotted out of the book of life. This is also called the cleansing of the temple. It is a symbol of the judgment day.

The book of Hebrews reveals that the earthly temple of the Old Testament Jews was only a model of the temple in heaven where God lives, and where Jesus went after His ascension.

Even more interestingly, there is a prophecy in the book of Daniel that reveals the year that Jesus entered His ministry- and it is cut off from another time period that reveals the year that the temple is cleansed. The Ã¢â‚¬Å“seventy weeksÃ¢â‚¬ prophecy predicts the year of the MessiahÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s coming, the year of His death, and the year of the end of the Jewish dispensation. It is a portion of a larger prophetic time period in which the archangel Gabriel revealed to Daniel the year that the temple in heaven is cleansed. It comes out to 1844. If this interpretation is true, there has been an ongoing judgment scene in heaven (which is described in greater detail in other Scriptures and referred to again in Daniel) since 1844, in preparation for the second coming of Christ. As Hebrews describes it, Jesus pleads His blood on our behalf and our records are reviewed in judgment at this moment, and will continue to be until probation closes and bla-bla-bla. (whistle) I think I hear an echo.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:53 am

He's makin' a list? And checkin' it twice??

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:27 pm

Arnold,

Re the 2nd Coming.

All I can add here is, You are'nt seen nothing yet. All these terrorists bombings in our cities around the world is small compared to what is going to happen tomorrow.

For more info read John Ch 24. It comes alive.And we are surely living in the last days.

From 2007 God help us all.