The FG Documentary

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:15 am

I may be taking a bite at a tiger here but let's give it a go. I think we can put together a DVD documentary about FG if there's enough interest. What was missing was a cheap way of doing it but I think I've worked one out.

First we all throw in questions and come to an agreed list of them.

Then we use the FG Travelling Shirt technique and post a package containing a video camera and other stuff around the members who volunteer to join in. Each member detaches one memory stick from the set being sent round, records onto it and posts it to me, then posts the package on in turn. I end up with a set of one-person interviews from which I can cut the bulk of the material together. Anyone who feels keen can take local scenery to fit in at appropriate points.

Anyone can volunteer, especially past members.

Some of the interviews can have the questions put by skype or handsfree phone by any of the other members to get the interviewee more engaged if they think what they record will work better that way.

Some of the members I'll phone when they have the video camera and put a few supplemental questions to that I want to be able to work into the material (if I'm editing it, that is). Then I'll build the documentary and create a DVD master of the program. All the volunteers can have a copy free as a thank-you. FG can sell a few if it's good enough.

Obviously there'll be far more specific instructions with the package on how to set it up and make it work so we all stay in the viewfinder and on topic (that'll be a first!) but we ought to discuss the idea before we get into that. Is anyone interested?

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:34 am

That sounds like a really good idea, spot. It would be fascinating when put together, though I don't really understand the "mechanics" of it :-5

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:45 am

you can come to Texas and interview me in person.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:52 am

I was interviewed for the documentry on the BBCs The Century Speaks which went out and wondered if I found it could it be used?:-3

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:12 am

Sound like a good idea if members can't be interview live or by voice you can email them a script of questions and they can answer them and someone can do the voice over for them.

I have a couple extra WEBCAMS I can send to people to use. Now all we need is a FG Skype account for us to use.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:16 am

I'll do the voice-overs so you all can have a southern accent. :wah:

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:39 am

sunny104;965960 wrote: I'll do the voice-overs so you all can have a southern accent. :wah::wah::wah:Well its better then having a cockney one:wah:;)

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:07 am

Sure, I'm interested too. I think it sounds like a fun idea. I would happily take part in something like this.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:07 am

I think I speak for everyone when I say naturally I should be in charge of the questions.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:07 am

theia;965923 wrote: That sounds like a really good idea, spot. It would be fascinating when put together, though I don't really understand the "mechanics" of it :-5I've notes on the mechanics, I'm fairly confident about that side of it.

sunny104;965933 wrote: you can come to Texas and interview me in person. :DSomeone pass me a muzzle before I bite her.

Carolly;965940 wrote: I was interviewed for the documentry on the BBCs The Century Speaks which went out and wondered if I found it could it be used?:-3I had it in mind we might focus on what makes FG tick. It's a tricky subject. It's why I want to get the ex-members involved since they have more to say than we do really.

CARLA;965955 wrote: Sound like a good idea if members can't be interview live or by voice you can email them a script of questions and they can answer them and someone can do the voice over for them.

I have a couple extra WEBCAMS I can send to people to use. Now all we need is a FG Skype account for us to use. ;)Yes, there'll be a written set of questions and it's probably easier for them to do their bit if they have someone on the phone to talk to as they're answering than for them to do it cold.

It needs to be the same video camera for all the work so that it retains the same texture and resolution, I'm aiming for full broadcast quality in so far as a DVD can carry it. I've got the camera I have in mind, the equipment doesn't cost a lot to buy or post around - we could have two if we need it to get it done quicker in the end and we'll need a replacement anyway if one goes astray in the post which it well might.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:13 am

No prob Spot..........just one question....if they are ex members and have left because of problems here or have been in trouble here how can you get their comments known.....are they to join again?

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:14 am

Carolly;966086 wrote: No prob Spot..........just one question....if they are ex members and have left because of problems here or have been in trouble here how can you get their comments known.....are they to join again?

I'm not proposing to interview them online. If they're interested in putting a point of view they can easily be on the posting list for the equipment. I'm much more interested in telling FG's story than in hiding their opinions.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:14 am

Nomad;966076 wrote: I think I speak for everyone when I say naturally I should be in charge of the questions.Totally agree:D

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:15 am

spot;966088 wrote: I'm not proposing to interview them online. If they're interested in putting a point of view they can easily be on the posting list for the equipment. I'm much more interested in telling FG's story than in hiding their opinions.Fair enough.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:17 am

Nomad;966076 wrote: I think I speak for everyone when I say naturally I should be in charge of the questions.

There we are, one volunteer in the bag. Thank you Nomad, I've written you in for that.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:19 am

RedGlitter;966072 wrote: Sure, I'm interested too. I think it sounds like a fun idea. I would happily take part in something like this.

Ideal. You're on the circulation list (which is a piece of paper at the moment). When the thread gets to collating questions might you like to toss a few in?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:22 am

sounds fun!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:27 am

spot;966092 wrote: There we are, one volunteer in the bag. Thank you Nomad, I've written you in for that.

Whoa !

Time Out...slow down there cowboy.

I was expecting instant denial.

Logic, wheres the logic in that ?

My mind wanders, I may start out asking about pets but drift off into I wonder if those garbage guys that ride on the back of the truck ever fall in and get compacted.

Lets think this through spock.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:14 pm

Spot, this sounds absolutely wonderful. Count me in please. But, please put me nearer to the end of the list so I can get my new laptop's bells and whistles sorted out :wah:...jannie.....so much to learn for a non tekkie dope like me:wah:

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:05 pm

I might still have the outline that we drew up for this last year.

I'll have a look and, if I don't find it, try to draw up a new one. The previous idea had a camera crew doing a tour of the US, Canada and the UK. This would definitely be cheaper but I don't see why the memory sticks get mailed in a batch resulting in multiple mail forwards. They could just be sent directly to those wanting to participate.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:11 pm

come to Canada and interview Odie!:driving:

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:19 pm

koan;966507 wrote: I might still have the outline that we drew up for this last year.

I'll have a look and, if I don't find it, try to draw up a new one. The previous idea had a camera crew doing a tour of the US, Canada and the UK. This would definitely be cheaper but I don't see why the memory sticks get mailed in a batch resulting in multiple mail forwards. They could just be sent directly to those wanting to participate.

The package has:

the movie cameraa small photographer's G-clamp to hold it rigidly in one placea US/UK battery charger with extra batteriestwenty or so 2GB memory cardsdetailed instructions for setting up the interview and for taking local video clips if anyone wants to do that tooOne memory card gets used at each interview - there's up to 2 hours video on it at DVD quality and the camera records video (1280 Ã— 720) at 30 fps with sound. The memory card gets posted back to me, the package goes on to the next interviewee. Most of the interviews have someone else on handsfree phone or skype to give the interviewee someone to talk to but the video camera only records what's in front of it, not both people. The question list is crucial if I'm to achieve coherence in the final product. Yes, last year's notes would be valuable at this stage. So's lighting the interviews, I'd like it if most people did them outdoors in sun somewhere quiet and wind-free to make that easier but we'll be flexible.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:30 am

spot;966095 wrote: Ideal. You're on the circulation list (which is a piece of paper at the moment). When the thread gets to collating questions might you like to toss a few in?

Sure, I'll be happy to.

Right now though I'm wondering if I should back out as I have never operated a video camera before. :-3 Is it relatively easy to run? If so then I'm still in and even if not, I'll still be happy to contribute some questions to the project.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:45 am

RedGlitter;966613 wrote: Sure, I'll be happy to.

Right now though I'm wondering if I should back out as I have never operated a video camera before. :-3 Is it relatively easy to run? If so then I'm still in and even if not, I'll still be happy to contribute some questions to the project.
The instruction sheet will be very explicit down to what setting to use, what button to press, where to fit the memory and where to screw the clamp in. I'll dry-run the instructions and get them tested by a third party. There won't be any difficulty.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:49 am

spot;966586 wrote: The package has:

the movie cameraa small photographer's G-clamp to hold it rigidly in one placea US/UK battery charger with extra batteriestwenty or so 2GB memory cardsdetailed instructions for setting up the interview and for taking local video clips if anyone wants to do that tooOne memory card gets used at each interview - there's up to 2 hours video on it at DVD quality and the camera records video (1280 Ã— 720) at 30 fps with sound. The memory card gets posted back to me, the package goes on to the next interviewee. Most of the interviews have someone else on handsfree phone or skype to give the interviewee someone to talk to but the video camera only records what's in front of it, not both people. The question list is crucial if I'm to achieve coherence in the final product. Yes, last year's notes would be valuable at this stage. So's lighting the interviews, I'd like it if most people did them outdoors in sun somewhere quiet and wind-free to make that easier but we'll be flexible.

Exterior lighting is horrendous.

I think the outline was handwritten I haven't found it anywhere. I'll have to chill out with a bottle of wine to remember what the structure was.

I was thinking that webcams were going to be the recording device. I get the mailing scheme now. That makes for better quality footage too.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:56 am

I know there are potential problems with outdoor light. Indoor requires hand-lighting and that's too complex to set up, the contrasts will screw up the exposure, if people use a desk light there'll be washed-out faces and black walls, if they use the room light there'll be grain everywhere. Nobody owns enough artificial light to get it done correctly and they've no stands. The clips will all have different lighting values indoors, outdoor shots will have a closer colour balance. Outdoors with the camera pointing away from the sun and no sky in the picture there'll be enough natural light and nothing washed out, and the instructions will have a test clip check and alternative positioning suggestions.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:29 am

fuzzy butt;966661 wrote: Why don't I just send you a video tape? I don't think it's fair for someone to cover the costs of shipping to Australia . And I know how much it costs to send packages overseas. From the weight i'm thinking of here it would cost me $50.00 dollars to send it to Pammy or MrsK.

I want all of it recorded on the same device so that I have a coherence in the final look of the thing.

The entire package weight is 540g.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:44 am

spot;966632 wrote: The instruction sheet will be very explicit down to what setting to use, what button to press, where to fit the memory and where to screw the clamp in. I'll dry-run the instructions and get them tested by a third party. There won't be any difficulty.

Sounds like a plan. :-6

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:25 am

spot;966077 wrote:

Someone pass me a muzzle before I bite her.

.

promises, promises....:yh_battin

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:27 am

sunny104;966771 wrote: promises, promises....:yh_battin

The muzzle was for you, Sunny, not for me!

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:49 pm

Oh yeah... I'll get wolverine and we can hunt down mominiowa and then head up to see criss and matt.. we can get the newbies perspective with shelbell...

may need a couple of sticks for wolverine... he's a big big boy...:sneaky:

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:02 pm

I think we need Jives and Grey too

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:55 pm

flopstock;967196 wrote: Oh yeah... I'll get wolverine and we can hunt down mominiowa

and then head up to see criss and matt.. we can get the newbies perspective with shelbell...

may need a couple of sticks for wolverine... he's a big big boy...:sneaky:

Hes out ?

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:56 pm

I wish I could understand more than I do sometimes.:-5:-5:(

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:00 pm

Carolly;967324 wrote: I wish I could understand more than I do sometimes.:-5:-5:(

What bit puzzles you, Carol?

Ian wrote: You don't send a camera around the world

Surly the people who want to take part can get hold of a digital camera

You think we don't need to use the same camera for all the interviews, I think we do. It would be helpful if you were to give reasons. Mine are that I want the same look to all the material, the same light sensitivity and colour balance, the same resolution and the same frame sizing. Keeping to the same transfer medium (SD Card in the case of the camera I was thinking of) is just a matter of convenience. If we got to a point where the interviewees were going to have to copy files from the camera to something like a DVD and post it I don't think everyone who wanted to would be able to do it. We'd certainly grind to a halt if some of them were using mini-DVD or DAT cameras.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:50 pm

The technical aspect is one thing but I'm more into starting at the beginning... like a subject. A documentary about FG could be so many things. What is your focus?

I believe we originally wanted to show how much a forum could affect people's real lives. There are a lot of folks out there that look at you as if you are an alien if you tell them that you use an internet forum. It would be interesting to show people why it's so addictive.

If you want people to participate in a documentary I think it's only fair to tell them what the documentary is about. If you think about films like Borat... I wouldn't blame anyone for being hesitant to send blind footage. I recommend they ask questions. You also need to have a disclaimer from anyone of whom you collect footage or you can't use it.

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:00 am

koan;967511 wrote: The technical aspect is one thing but I'm more into starting at the beginning... like a subject. A documentary about FG could be so many things. What is your focus?

I believe we originally wanted to show how much a forum could affect people's real lives. There are a lot of folks out there that look at you as if you are an alien if you tell them that you use an internet forum. It would be interesting to show people why it's so addictive.

If you want people to participate in a documentary I think it's only fair to tell them what the documentary is about. If you think about films like Borat... I wouldn't blame anyone for being hesitant to send blind footage. I recommend they ask questions. You also need to have a disclaimer from anyone of whom you collect footage or you can't use it.

Yes, I've got the rights issues in mind, they'll essentially come from the FG Terms and Conditions regarding use of material.

Here's my initial list of questions from which I think the focus starts to show. I want the list extending and adjusting in this thread by everyone interested.

How did you find the place and get involved?

What do you get out of being on FG?

What do you think other people get out of being on FG?

Tell the history of FG from your own perspective.

Where do you see FG going in the future?

What are the topics that get you interested?

What topics are just a turn-off?

What's the excitement of being on FG?

What are the dangers of being on FG?

Have you seen anyone get hurt there?

Have you seen anyone benefit from being there?

How much of a part does the place have in your life at the moment?

How close or far is it from being a fair environment?

Is it small enough or big enough?

Is it serious enough or frivolous enough?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:19 am

koan;967511 wrote: There are a lot of folks out there that look at you as if you are an alien if you tell them that you use an internet forum.

You tell people ?

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:42 am

spot;967513 wrote: Yes, I've got the rights issues in mind, they'll essentially come from the FG Terms and Conditions regarding use of material.

Here's my initial list of questions from which I think the focus starts to show. I want the list extending and adjusting in this thread by everyone interested.

How did you find the place and get involved?

What do you get out of being on FG?

What do you think other people get out of being on FG?

Tell the history of FG from your own perspective.

Where do you see FG going in the future?

What are the topics that get you interested?

What topics are just a turn-off?

What's the excitement of being on FG?

What are the dangers of being on FG?

Have you seen anyone get hurt there?

Have you seen anyone benefit from being there?

How much of a part does the place have in your life at the moment?

How close or far is it from being a fair environment?

Is it small enough or big enough?

Is it serious enough or frivolous enough?

Wow.............so many questions! If I were to be asked all these questions, I'd start to feel important and that my opinions mattered. I would become a celebrity and have to be on guard for the papparazzi attacks. The public would know my true identity and my soul would be out there for all to see. I would feel like I was living in a glass house and have to watch my every move. My life would no longer be my own.

All kidding aside, this is truly ambitious undertaking and I do admire your plan.

Can we just take a poll ?

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:57 am

I only put that list up because koan asked, it really does need input and adjustment from everyone else who's interested.

My intention is to structure the documentary around the questions themselves, and cut into fragments from each interviewee which deal with just that issue to give the general sense of the site's users and follow individual stories, then on to the next issue and round the interviewees again. There'll be an intro and a conclusion and maybe some scene-setting for the topics.

How's it sounding so far?

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:00 am

Ian;967515 wrote: I'll say no more, good luck...................

I'm not discounting your point of view, Ian, but all I have are my own reasons as far as using one camera or letting people record their own goes and I've mentioned them. If you've alternative reasons then lay them out, it's the right time to decide that sort of approach. I know your conclusion but I have no idea how you reached it.

Post by **spot** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:03 am

There ought to be alternative ways for the end product to be created. Nobody wants a directorial slant imposed on their opinions.

I suggest that the original files from all the members will end up on the ForumGarden server in a protected area. Any member who wants to try a different approach to editing and presenting their version from those clips can ask Tombstone for permission to create their own FG DVD alternative to contrast with whatever I put together from it. All the original material and final cuts will be the property of FG.

The existing Terms and Conditions would cover these uses, I think: With respect to photos, graphics, audio or video you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible area of the Service, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available. This license exists into perpetuity.

With respect to Content other than photos, graphics, audio or video you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Service, the perpetual, irrevocable and fully sublicensable license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content (in whole or in part) and to incorporate such Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed.I think this one-off round-robin interview needs to fall into the second category.

Do I still have anyone interested? I'm not sure whether to ask people directly if they want to join in or whether to just get the first interview started and see whether it builds. The problem with that is the disappointment for the initial interviewees if it trails out from lack of anyone else joining in.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:20 am

I'm still interested.

I'm favoring the first option myself. There's something a little too encompassing about the second one. I wouldn't want to find my segment of the video on tv five years from now, say.

I hope this takes off. Would it be of benefit to offer some kind of incentive to members to encourage them to take part? Or no?

Post by **spot** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:30 am

There are three levels of anonymity an interviewee could select if they're worried about their real-life identity being compromised. The open footage, just their voice or "this contribution is voiced by an actor". Anyone could choose any of those options, it's their opinion we want to capture. Is that flexible enough?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:45 am

Oh that's not what I was thinking about, Spot. I'm not personally worried about someone seeing me, was just thinking the way you worded that second option kind of sounded like I was signing over my firstborn.

It's cool. But for those who might be uncomfy with being visible, it's good to know they have those other alternatives.

Post by **spot** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:19 am

Floppy began a list of one-time FG people whose views are important but who don't post regularly any longer. If they'd like to have their input included there needs to be a specific question list for them because they have a separate focus on the site. They ought at least to be given the opportunity.

floppy started with:wolverine

mominiowa

babyrider

bullet

jives

greydeadheadI'm going to addArnoldLayne

hamster

pants

zinky

Snooze

clipper

Diuretic

keith W

wendybird

Bothwell

KarazePapa

Clancy

Raven

cinamin

Pheasy

KB

polycarp

rain

openmind

telaquapacky

frank

lulu

There'll be others but those spring to mind immediately. If anyone feels left out it's not deliberate slighting on my part, my memory's not the best.