I hope I'm excused for limiting the thread to Western artistic culture from the start. I don't know much about non-Western artistic culture. Note that for the purposes of the thread the West includes all Europe as far as the Urals because that space forms a part of the artistic community I'm discussing.
I thought we might bash about some popular stereotype misconceptions about which country does what.
Here's my contention, off the top of my head just sat here. Culture has a gradient. The further geographically East you are the more there is. Australians will just have to bear with me and pretend they're West European if they don't mind but apart from that it all seems to fit.
The Russians are top cultural dogs. Everything's there - the greatest classical musicians outside Germany, the greatest writers, Russia defines the Western soul.
Germany and Austria, classical music composers of such quality that they define what's possible. The further you get from that hub the more it tails off. England's had a dozen interesting composers but you'd erase every last one of them rather than lose just one Bach or Beethoven or Mozart.
The UK's where rock's defined. The US may have invented it but they can't compete in quality terms.
The US is the source of the music of suffering. If it's black it's authentic, if it's white then there's a handful of originals and a whole load of pointless tripe. Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel yes but what's left after that? The Beach Boys? Paul Revere and the Raiders?
Canada's a niche for writers who strum a guitar to find a mass market, they're the world leaders at that.
Does it work as a thesis? Does it apply to fine painting as well? Obviously that brings in Italy and Spain but it might still be as valid.
Western artistic culture
Western artistic culture
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Western artistic culture
I don't think I was trying to equate art with culture, art's far narrower. I'd distinguish artistic culture - which is what I narrowed the thread toward - as the part of culture which is expressed in art. Art's that component of living which engages directly with the emotions. Culture needn't do that at all. Culture's a lifestyle which rejects all the assumptions of capitalism, which values intangibles. It places supreme importance on quality of life, on challenging the assumed superiority of the way things are and explores alternatives. Society is invariably a pyramid. The uncultured attempt to scale it, the cultured decorate it from top to bottom even if they use spray-paint and stencils, fresh vegetables from the local garden or booked rooms in the local public buildings.
Sidney Nolan and Papunya Tula spring to mind when you ask about Australian fine art, I'm far more familiar with the written works than anything hung in galleries. What would you point me at?
Yes, a lot of art's story-telling and it's invariably set in the context of when it was created so to that extent it provides a historical trail of change and reflection.
Kitch has two forms. One's the judgement of a period which wasn't deliberately adopting it as a commentary technique, the other's when the artist was aiming for the effect. Every form of art has a period in its future where it's disregarded as crass and devalued but it invariably recovers from those vagaries of fashion. The Austrian movement toward witting parody of its times presumably gets called kitch twice over when it hits that barrier. Wedding cakes came from architectural parody partly because they face the same logistic engineering demands - building styles work at all scales. Even Wren showed humour when he designed St Brides.
Sidney Nolan and Papunya Tula spring to mind when you ask about Australian fine art, I'm far more familiar with the written works than anything hung in galleries. What would you point me at?
Yes, a lot of art's story-telling and it's invariably set in the context of when it was created so to that extent it provides a historical trail of change and reflection.
Kitch has two forms. One's the judgement of a period which wasn't deliberately adopting it as a commentary technique, the other's when the artist was aiming for the effect. Every form of art has a period in its future where it's disregarded as crass and devalued but it invariably recovers from those vagaries of fashion. The Austrian movement toward witting parody of its times presumably gets called kitch twice over when it hits that barrier. Wedding cakes came from architectural parody partly because they face the same logistic engineering demands - building styles work at all scales. Even Wren showed humour when he designed St Brides.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Western artistic culture
spot;966608 wrote: I hope I'm excused for limiting the thread to Western artistic culture from the start. I don't know much about non-Western artistic culture. Note that for the purposes of the thread the West includes all Europe as far as the Urals because that space forms a part of the artistic community I'm discussing.
I thought we might bash about some popular stereotype misconceptions about which country does what.
Here's my contention, off the top of my head just sat here. Culture has a gradient. The further geographically East you are the more there is. Australians will just have to bear with me and pretend they're West European if they don't mind but apart from that it all seems to fit.
The Russians are top cultural dogs. Everything's there - the greatest classical musicians outside Germany, the greatest writers, Russia defines the Western soul.
Germany and Austria, classical music composers of such quality that they define what's possible. The further you get from that hub the more it tails off. England's had a dozen interesting composers but you'd erase every last one of them rather than lose just one Bach or Beethoven or Mozart.
The UK's where rock's defined. The US may have invented it but they can't compete in quality terms.
The US is the source of the music of suffering. If it's black it's authentic, if it's white then there's a handful of originals and a whole load of pointless tripe. Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel yes but what's left after that? The Beach Boys? Paul Revere and the Raiders?
Canada's a niche for writers who strum a guitar to find a mass market, they're the world leaders at that.
Does it work as a thesis? Does it apply to fine painting as well? Obviously that brings in Italy and Spain but it might still be as valid.
Seriously just off the top of my head this is total crap.
Ill get back to my reasons later but I really needed to voice the total crap thought immediately.
I thought we might bash about some popular stereotype misconceptions about which country does what.
Here's my contention, off the top of my head just sat here. Culture has a gradient. The further geographically East you are the more there is. Australians will just have to bear with me and pretend they're West European if they don't mind but apart from that it all seems to fit.
The Russians are top cultural dogs. Everything's there - the greatest classical musicians outside Germany, the greatest writers, Russia defines the Western soul.
Germany and Austria, classical music composers of such quality that they define what's possible. The further you get from that hub the more it tails off. England's had a dozen interesting composers but you'd erase every last one of them rather than lose just one Bach or Beethoven or Mozart.
The UK's where rock's defined. The US may have invented it but they can't compete in quality terms.
The US is the source of the music of suffering. If it's black it's authentic, if it's white then there's a handful of originals and a whole load of pointless tripe. Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel yes but what's left after that? The Beach Boys? Paul Revere and the Raiders?
Canada's a niche for writers who strum a guitar to find a mass market, they're the world leaders at that.
Does it work as a thesis? Does it apply to fine painting as well? Obviously that brings in Italy and Spain but it might still be as valid.
Seriously just off the top of my head this is total crap.
Ill get back to my reasons later but I really needed to voice the total crap thought immediately.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Western artistic culture
Nomad;967133 wrote: Seriously just off the top of my head this is total crap.
Ill get back to my reasons later but I really needed to voice the total crap thought immediately.
Whenever you're ready, big boy, I'll get the boxing gloves out.
Ill get back to my reasons later but I really needed to voice the total crap thought immediately.
Whenever you're ready, big boy, I'll get the boxing gloves out.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Western artistic culture
I hope I'm excused for limiting the thread to Western artistic culture from the start. I don't know much about non-Western artistic culture.
Clearly Eastern art has a unique and distinct flavor. Generally speaking when you see Asian art you know its Asian art.
That leaves the rest of us. Aside from identifying specific periods of art, "western culture" whatever that is has produced every form of art known to man.
If you are not speaking of particular artists I cant identify something originating in Prague from something originating in Little rock Arkansas.
Here's my contention, off the top of my head just sat here. Culture has a gradient.
Cultures are apples and oranges. What works for a community in Kenya will obviously not fly in Malaga Spain.
While art is cultural culture encompasses much more than the art produced from a region.
To imply the quality of cultural significance declines the further west you approach is ignorant.
Germany and Austria, classical music composers of such quality that they define what's possible
Clearly some great composers emerged from Germany and Austria, no question but to dismiss all others in comparison is a disservice to yourself and unreasonable.
The UK's where rock's defined. The US may have invented it but they can't compete in quality terms.
Well knock me over with a feather.
I cant argue that some of the worlds greatest rock has emerged from the UK however, saying that British bands and musicians hold the magic key to quality output is merely a preference.
If you love Clapton and the Beatles but hate The Beach Boys then fine, qualify that as your preference not as some fact verified by the institution of good music.
On a footnote "if its black its authentic" is totally minimizing the importance of how and the way early blues influenced some of the great UK rockers.
Every one of those guys from Richards to Clapton himself will tell you Muddy Waters got the ball rolling for them.
Art in all its forms is pouring out from every crack and crevice on Earth.
Beauty is being created somewhere in California today and India tomorrow.
I hate it when people pigeon hole, label and define things as this or that.
If you prefer Picasso to ice carving fine but dont limit your vision by saying a country with a population of 275 million people cant produce culturally significant art worthy of appreciation.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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chonsigirl
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Western artistic culture
I thought we might bash about some popular stereotype misconceptions about which country does what.
You start with the (mis)conception of political boundaries set out in the present time.
Culture has a gradient. The further geographically East you are the more there is.
What is the gradient you are specifying: if you are looking for something specific, you will need to put this in your thesis. Art is a viable extension of culture in many forms; paintings, music, literature, etc.
I assume you are looking just at Eurasia-until the Urals you suggested. North America would not be present in your analysis then, but would have to be looked at in a compare and contrast manner.
You should take region or area of art at a time, if you want a detailed discussion. Otherwise, I think it would come down to personal interpretation of what appeals to the reader/poster themself. And a timeframe would be useful, or someone like me would want to start at the first presence of art in any of its forms, like cave painting....(that is where I start my western civ classes that specialize in art. )
Attached files
You start with the (mis)conception of political boundaries set out in the present time.
Culture has a gradient. The further geographically East you are the more there is.
What is the gradient you are specifying: if you are looking for something specific, you will need to put this in your thesis. Art is a viable extension of culture in many forms; paintings, music, literature, etc.
I assume you are looking just at Eurasia-until the Urals you suggested. North America would not be present in your analysis then, but would have to be looked at in a compare and contrast manner.
You should take region or area of art at a time, if you want a detailed discussion. Otherwise, I think it would come down to personal interpretation of what appeals to the reader/poster themself. And a timeframe would be useful, or someone like me would want to start at the first presence of art in any of its forms, like cave painting....(that is where I start my western civ classes that specialize in art. )
Attached files
Western artistic culture
Its an interesting thesis, but I think you are forgetting about France and Italy a little, you know Satre, Satie, Rimbauld, Verdi, Descartes, Vivaldi, Molliere, Pucinni, etc etc (and I could go on there). Also as an Irishman I have to state that we may not be so great at the fine art or classical music, but when it comes to the writing we can give the Russians a run for their money any day, and we are as Western as Western Europe gets. Your geographical culture gradient might work for certain art forms, but not for culture as a whole I think.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Western artistic culture
Also if you look at Britain, OK sometimes it can seem like a cultural wasteland because the TV pop culture of modern commercial life is so dominant, but I think that if you look a little closer at Britain, its not quite as philistine as one might imagine. Also of course, now that Western economies are in decline, I think you may well see a bit of a cultural re-awakening in the Western World, or at least a revival in an appreciation of the value of high art and culture, and about time too.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.