Obama's gonna win!!!

[Bez]

From what I've read and listened to I'm guessing that Obama will win.



Does anyone think that the USA will ever adopt a 'National health Service'. It seems to me that if it was possible that it would help a lot of Americans who struggle to pay for health care....I know that a large amoung of my sisters 'outgoings' go towards her health care Insurance. I've not heard either candidate mention this in their campaigning.

[chonsigirl]

No, a National Health Care Service is not either of the candidates platform. I do not know if that is feasible here-there are pros and cons either way.

[Bez]

chonsigirl;1042867 wrote: No, a National Health Care Service is not either of the candidates platform. I do not know if that is feasible here-there are pros and cons either way.


I've heard that it was discussed after the 1st world war....long time ago !

[Accountable]

Bez;1042860 wrote: From what I've read and listened to I'm guessing that Obama will win.



Does anyone think that the USA will ever adopt a 'National health Service'. It seems to me that if it was possible that it would help a lot of Americans who struggle to pay for health care....I know that a large amoung of my sisters 'outgoings' go towards her health care Insurance. I've not heard either candidate mention this in their campaigning.
Living within one's means, trying to stay fit & healthy, and keeping an emergency fund in the bank would solve most of those struggling Americans. That alone would drop overall insurance rates, which would help the rest. Personal responsibility is the biggest casualty in our war against poverty.



Both Obama and McCain took around $2million from the insurance industry (site). They won't adopt fully nationalized healthcare because that would hurt insurers, but I expect some type of hybrid.

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1039084 wrote: What you've got there is Jack Kennedy reborn with some extra plus points. Take good care of him, you're only averaging one every fifty years.


your absolutely right Spot. Kennedy and Obama are both the same. Both were charletons. Kennedy had to be the worst President America ever saw and i say that even taking into account, Nixon.

kennedy took us to the very brink of world war 111 with his Cuban fiasco, bay of pigs etc. He was a serial womaniser and mixed with more dodgy connections than Obama has got. He spent the current equivelent of trillions of dollars sending a tin can on a fated mission, (Only by luck, they came back), to a lump of rock that is of no use to anyone. What a great President he was not.

[Oscar Namechange]

Accountable;1042878 wrote: Living within one's means, trying to stay fit & healthy, and keeping an emergency fund in the bank would solve most of those struggling Americans. That alone would drop overall insurance rates, which would help the rest. Personal responsibility is the biggest casualty in our war against poverty.



Both Obama and McCain took around $2million from the insurance industry (site). They won't adopt fully nationalized healthcare because that would hurt insurers, but I expect some type of hybrid.


I have raved about Britain's National Health service. It is something every Britain should be proud of.

It would be fantastic for the American people if any new President could introduce it, i hope they do.

While my fellow countrymen critise my Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, i have to say, i would be downright ashamed if he did what the Irish Government have done.

When times got tough in the economic crisis, they hit the most vulnerable and took away over 70 year olds health care.

[Nomad]

[quote=Accountable;1042878]Living within one's means, trying to stay fit & healthy, and keeping an emergency fund in the bank would solve most of those struggling Americans. That alone would drop overall insurance rates, which would help the rest. Personal responsibility is the biggest casualty in our war against poverty.

This might be a little oversimplified.

The problem for many Americans is that an emergency fund is unrealistic.

They are forced to live within their means by the wages they recieve.

I dont know what you see but I see almost all Americans working hard. All of those cars on the freeway in the morning, theyre on their way to work.

Most of us do take personal responsibility, the ones that took out loans they cant afford are minimal compared to the rest of us that are realistic.



The last co. I worked for systematically stripped away our futures starting with retirement packages, medical coverage benefits, pay increases, bonuses and before I left the last thing they did was make us all sign documents recognizing we could be fired at any time for any reason. Of course we already knew that but it was a necessary reminder. Letting us know we were dispensible kept us quiet.

We work hard and we get ahead ? Not always Rick.

[Oscar Namechange]

At least Obama won't have to ummm and errr over weather to support and fund the IRA as the Kennedy dynasty did. Yeah, nice one Jack.

[spot]

oscar;1042982 wrote: your absolutely right Spot. Kennedy and Obama are both the same. Both were charletons. Kennedy had to be the worst President America ever saw and i say that even taking into account, Nixon.It comes down to what you look at. Nixon, Kennedy and Johnson are the only three post-war presidents I have any admiration for, all three equally.

[Accountable]

Nomad;1043005[quote=Accountable;1042878 wrote: Living within one's means, trying to stay fit & healthy, and keeping an emergency fund in the bank would solve most of those struggling Americans. That alone would drop overall insurance rates, which would help the rest. Personal responsibility is the biggest casualty in our war against poverty.



This might be a little oversimplified.

The problem for many Americans is that an emergency fund is unrealistic.

Many, but nowhere near most and certainly not all.

They are forced to live within their means by the wages they recieve.

Of course, but how many have cable TV or high speed internet, credit card debt and no savings? I think more people choose to forego saving for emergencies than who can not save for emergencies.

I dont know what you see but I see almost all Americans working hard. All of those cars on the freeway in the morning, theyre on their way to work.

Agreed.

Most of us do take personal responsibility, the ones that took out loans they cant afford are minimal compared to the rest of us that are realistic.

And yet some of us want to change the entire society to coddle the minority who are not.



The last co. I worked for systematically stripped away our futures starting with retirement packages, medical coverage benefits, pay increases, bonuses and before I left the last thing they did was make us all sign documents recognizing we could be fired at any time for any reason. Of course we already knew that but it was a necessary reminder. Letting us know we were dispensible kept us quiet.

We work hard and we get ahead ? Not always Rick.

You left. That company abused good employees and lost at least one, probably more, because of it. I worked for companies that took me for granted. I left, too. Their idiocy, their loss.

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1043055 wrote: It comes down to what you look at. Nixon, Kennedy and Johnson are the only three post-war presidents I have any admiration for, all three equally.


How can you possibly admire a man (Kennedy) who created such a fiasco over Cuba? and take us to the brink of world war 111 out of stupidity?

[spot]

oscar;1043063 wrote: How can you possibly admire a man (Kennedy) who created such a fiasco over Cuba? and take us to the brink of world war 111 out of stupidity?


The missile crisis resulted from inadequate information on both sides. Explain "created" to me in his context. Do you think it would have been acceptable for the Soviets to have succeeded in positioning nuclear missiles in Cuba within ten minutes' flight time of Washington DC?

Kennedy did a couple of totally heroic things. When he discovered what the CIA had been attempting - the land invasion which they thought would commit the President to authorizing Air Force support - he cancelled the air cover and thereby guaranteed the destruction of the CIA invasion forces. That was a huge step to take and for that alone the man deserves medals.

Secondly, when the Soviet ICBM site construction was discovered on Cuba by the US, Kennedy was presented with five choices and one unanimous recommendation by his Joint Chiefs of Staff. The options were to do nothing, to try diplomatic pressure, to blow up the ICBM construction sites from the air (there were no missles on Cuba ever, they were on the Soviet fleet which was blockaded), to launch a full military invasion or to blockade Cuba at sea. The Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously recommended a full invasion and Kennedy refused.

The deal he did with the Soviets was to apologize for infuriating them in the first place. They were putting their ICBMs in Cuba in response to an earlier Eisenhower-planned US deployment of ICBMs on the Turkey/USSR border - the US had 15 missiles within 16 minutes flight time of Moscow. The Cuban installation was merely tit for tat. Kennedy's solution was an apology and a withdrawal.

What among all of that makes the Cuban Missile Crisis Kennedy's fault?

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1043085 wrote: The missile crisis resulted from inadequate information on both sides. Explain "created" to me in his context. Do you think it would have been acceptable for the Soviets to have succeeded in positioning nuclear missiles in Cuba within ten minutes' flight time of Washington DC?

Kennedy did a couple of totally heroic things. When he discovered what the CIA had been attempting - the land invasion which they thought would commit the President to authorizing Air Force support - he cancelled the air cover and thereby guaranteed the destruction of the CIA invasion forces. That was a huge step to take and for that alone the man deserves medals.

Secondly, when the Soviet ICBM site construction was discovered on Cuba by the US, Kennedy was presented with five choices and one unanimous recommendation by his Joint Chiefs of Staff. The options were to do nothing, to try diplomatic pressure, to blow up the ICBM construction sites from the air (there were no missles on Cuba ever, they were on the Soviet fleet which was blockaded), to launch a full military invasion or to blockade Cuba at sea. The Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously recommended a full invasion and Kennedy refused.

The deal he did with the Soviets was to apologize for infuriating them in the first place. They were putting their ICBMs in Cuba in response to an earlier Eisenhower-planned US deployment of ICBMs on the Turkey/USSR border - the US had 15 missiles within 16 minutes flight time of Moscow. The Cuban installation was merely tit for tat. Kennedy's solution was an apology and a withdrawal.

What among all of that makes the Cuban Missile Crisis Kennedy's fault?


Without going off on a tangent of the whole Cuban issue and deflecting from Obama...... I believe the it all began with the constant threat from Kennedy to invade Cuba.

Kennedy was stupid..... Khrushchev called his bluff with the 'Tsar bomber' programme, he not only fell for it, he ultimately backed down to Russia.

I can understand Kennedy not wanting Cuba as an ally of Russia but i will always believe he handled it badly.

The bay of pigs invasion was a farce with Kennedy promising Air support that never came, infact he cancelled it.

From hhis shame, he secretly withdrew missiles from Turkey.

During the crisis, America had 8 times the amount of warheads that Russia had, yet he backed down.

Call it a peace treaty if you will, it was submission in my book.

Is Obama going to back down to Russia in the near future??

[spot]

oscar;1043096 wrote: Without going off on a tangent of the whole Cuban issue and deflecting from Obama...... I believe the it all began with the constant threat from Kennedy to invade Cuba.That's all you needed to say. Go and read a history book. Show me anyone anywhere who studied the period and thinks that's true. The US had various groups who wanted to do that. Kennedy's the man who stopped them. I've no idea where you got your history from but it's topsy turvy.

If you go and look you'll see I'm right. If you don't want to make the effort, tell me and I'll find the story for you.

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1043114 wrote: That's all you needed to say. Go and read a history book. Show me anyone anywhere who studied the period and thinks that's true. The US had various groups who wanted to do that. Kennedy's the man who stopped them. I've no idea where you got your history from but it's topsy turvy.

If you go and look you'll see I'm right. If you don't want to make the effort, tell me and I'll find the story for you.


Yes, i didn't word that very well. I accept the threat to invade Cuba came after the bluff from Russia.

As usual, i am going by memory here as today has been an eventful day.

I would be gratefull if you could find a link for me. As you know, i am never too proud to look at another's view.

I shall return after dinner and read anything with interest.

[spot]

I'd start with Cuban Missile Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and if anything there seems biased I'd follow the references to find out why. Nothing's likely to be untrue, there are too many people prepared to challenge untruths there. Bias, I tend to find, is usually more in he eye of the reader than the articles.

If you think Kennedy ever promised air support to the Bay of Pigs I think you should easily be able to show a source for it. I say it's not true.

What "peace treaty" are you talking about?

When you say "secretly" withdrew the ICBMs from Turkey - secret from whom? The whole point was that the Soviets knew they were there, deploying to Cuba was a response to their being there, Kennedy withdrawing them was the deal for ending the crisis.

"America had 8 times the amount of warheads that Russia had, yet he backed down"? How did they back down? The whole point of it being a crisis is that Kennedy didn't back down, he waited it out and Krushchev turned his fleet back instead of trying to break the blockade. Had Kennedy backed down over the sea blockade then the ICBMs would have arrived in Cuba. You think removing the US ICBMs from the Soviet border was "backing down"? They weren't his missiles, they were Eisenhower's missiles, they were obsolete and redundant from the moment that US submarines successfully launched ICBM test flights while submerged. The Turkish deployment was pointless from then onward, they gave no greater advantage either for deterrence or, if it came to it, for first strike.

You sound as though you wish Kennedy had gone to war in 1962, I can't see what else you're arguing he ought to have done. War with whom? How many domestic casualties would have been an acceptable consequence? Ten million? What would have qualified as winning?

[Bryn Mawr]

Hoss;1039168 wrote: If Barack Obama is elected President we will loose the war on terror.

If Barack Obama is elected President we will have race riots in this country like we have never seen before.

If Barack Obama is elected president, the US Constitution will be as useful as toilet paper.

If Barack Obama is elected President the recession will turn to depression, taxes will go up for everyone directly or indirectly. The poor will stay poor, the rich will pay the poor and the 80% in the middle will carry the country and suffer the most.

Worst of all my father will refuse to serve a standing president, There is no telling what that will trouble that will bring him.



God help us all if he wins.


You lost the war on terror the day you invaded Iraq.

Out of interest, on what grounds will your dad refuse?

[Bryn Mawr]

Accountable;1039226 wrote: Lord, I hope so. I'd like to see some evidence of his being able to control a budget. Have you noticed that neither candidate wants to talk about the deficit?


Hmmm - which party generated the deficit I might ask?

[Oscar Namechange]

Bryn Mawr;1043302 wrote: Out of interest, on what grounds will your dad refuse? Oh Bryn, you've been away too long and missed so much.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bryn Mawr;1043302 wrote: You lost the war on terror the day you invaded Iraq.




According to an article of very late, it accuses Obama of changing track again and admitting that the Iraq war had been proved benificial.

I am in no doubt that Obama said it as he seems to change course more than a chased hare.

I believe it was the Daily mail naturally.

[Bryn Mawr]

Accountable;1042878 wrote: Living within one's means, trying to stay fit & healthy, and keeping an emergency fund in the bank would solve most of those struggling Americans. That alone would drop overall insurance rates, which would help the rest. Personal responsibility is the biggest casualty in our war against poverty.



Both Obama and McCain took around $2million from the insurance industry (site). They won't adopt fully nationalized healthcare because that would hurt insurers, but I expect some type of hybrid.


When was the last time that the US government lived within its means. Looking at the figures that US national debt has been increasing year on year for a long time.

[Bryn Mawr]

Hoss;1043312 wrote: I disagree on your first statement. I will let Sgt Joe Cook tell you why.

YouTube - Dear Mr. Obama

My dad will refuse to obey all orders as unlawful under a president that is ineligible to be president because he failed to provide valid proof of citizenship.


I cannot see the video.

Until and unless Obama is proven in a court of law to be ineligible for the position of President you father would be in breach of his sworn duty by refusing orders.

[Bryn Mawr]

Hoss;1043317 wrote: I would say both did.

But watch the speed at which it grows under the democrats if they have both congress and the executive branch with the 700 billion blank check that hasn't been decided on HOW to use it yet. :-3


First look at the historic evidence and the speed at which its grown to its current value before you give me what ifs.

[Oscar Namechange]

Hoss;1043339 wrote: I only wish more people could see through his facade.


Hoss, i have spent many weeks reading up on Obama. I could write a mega post detailing excerpts from his own two autobiographys that do not match what he is spouting today. I could write about his history of changing support from black culture to white. I could write about his dodgy aquaintences, the one's he now so strenuously denie's having.

I am not a writer, i leave that sort of thing to Spot.

Obama has been highly reported on here by our press. They have also delved very deep. For once, these are not Fleet Street hacks but repected research journalists that have been following Obama for months and months.

They have also reported on McCain and the best they can come up with is that he has an ex wife and is a little careless with helicopters.

The best they can get on Palin, is that she has an iffy brother-in-law.

What i have read over the months about Obama, alarms me.

the journalists here that have done the reporting can not make it up. They have to have evidence or they would have a pile of law suits.

From everything that Obama has said in his speeches, i am still actually baffled as to what his policie's are. (exactly the same here with our opposition, Cameroon, they have no policie's either). This bafflement left me thinking for a long while that i was just being thick and i just didn't get it. No, Obama changes track to suit and i have a job keeping up with the bullshit he spouts.

[Bryn Mawr]

oscar;1043332 wrote: Oh Bryn, you've been away too long and missed so much.


A long weekend shovelling sh!t if truth be told - I certainly wouldn't have missed it.

[Oscar Namechange]

Don't worry Hoss, McCain has called 'Arnie' in to boost his final week.

Asta la Vista Baby.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bryn Mawr;1043353 wrote: A long weekend shovelling sh!t if truth be told - I certainly wouldn't have missed it.


That sounds ominous!:-3

[Oscar Namechange]

I have read the Wikipedia version of the Cuban crisis and yes, like everything, it is open to opinion and bias,

I have been searching for something to back up what i said about Kennedy Promising air support and failing to deliver during the invasion of the Bay of Pigs. and without tawling through endless sites, i can only say what it says in the wikipedia version that you have linked.

There is a question there, i believe as to why Kennedy cancelled air support.

Also i could not endorse any Prime Minister or President that was a notorious womaniser as Kennedy was. he also had reported links to mafiosa.

[Oscar Namechange]

Hoss;1043359 wrote: Sgt Cook details how Barack Obama calls Iraq a ‘mistake’, how offensive that is to veterans of the conflict in Iraq and how foolishly stupid it is to insult the army he may be in charge of come January. He goes on to tell of the values of the Iraqi people, wanting to give hope and a future to their children and how much like everyone else they are, how much work the common Iraqi has put into their own country with the help of the US soldiers there protecting them.

I hate to tell you this but half of the US Special Operations community plans to stand down on January 21st. if proof isn’t made to some degree of satisfaction. Hundreds of letters have been forwarded from many places to Barack’s Campaign headquarters. So far there are no recorded replies from him. I think my father is a just man, if he sees fit to do this then he will accept any consequences for it as well. His service to our country is testimony to his value of the Constitution. If he does do this it won't be done rashly or lightly.


Sometimes, we all have to stand up for what we believe in even if it means standing alone whatever the consequences. If he believes he is right, then he's doing the right thing.

[Oscar Namechange]

Hoss;1043365 wrote: I'm really not that worried as a matter of fact. I think it will be McCain in the White House by a good margin.

When it happens it will prove the left leaning news media as the liars they are. I can't read anything, or watch anything 'of the news' on TV, and get the straight story, there is so much bias out there and around election time its the poll talk that tries to influence people the most.

Now it's the scare tactics around not trusting the ballot process that’s the wave fear.


It's happened here in Britain where the polls and the press tell us who's won before we have even voted.

I have also read extensively on Obama having allegedly rigged votes just to be nominated. Again, without going into a mega post about what American press will have printed anyway, it will be a different matter when the people vote in privacy.

I believe McCain will win by a margin....... we can only wait now.

[K.Snyder]

Galbally;1039292 wrote: He's actually not a socialist or a muslim, or a terrorist, but people insist that they don't believe him when he points out that he isn't any of these things (repeatedly, with evidence). Why do they refuse to be reassured that he isn't about to blow up the Capitol, I doubt they would accuse Hillary Clinton of these ridicluous things, but somehow its acceptable to accuse (based on no evidence) that Obama is an anti-christ; with all sorts of delusional fears (which could come from the fevered imaginings of some 1930s German Nazi) being justifed, explain please?


Because they're stubborn to the point of ignorance.

[Oscar Namechange]

Did you know, by point of reference, that one of Obama's half brothers is Kenyan born 'Obongo'? I wasn't that far out when i called Obama Ali Bingo was i??

[hoppy]

oscar;1043370 wrote: It's happened here in Britain where the polls and the press tell us who's won before we have even voted.

I have also read extensively on Obama having allegedly rigged votes just to be nominated. Again, without going into a mega post about what American press will have printed anyway, it will be a different matter when the people vote in privacy.

I believe McCain will win by a margin....... we can only wait now.


Bingo! The press likes to brainwash the public by repeatedly assuring the public that their favorite candidate already has the election all sewed up when in reality, he may even be behind. One can only hope.

[Oscar Namechange]

hoppy;1043391 wrote: Bingo! The press likes to brainwash the public by repeatedly assuring the public that their favorite candidate already has the election all sewed up when in reality, he may even be behind. One can only hope.


Obama's been making some pretty frantic last minute posturing and posing of late. I think he knows it's very close. Our British press reported at the weekend that McCain was gaining on Obama in the polls. Maybe Obama knows something we don't. Let's hope it is the fact that he is in reality, way behind McCain.

[spot]

It's amazing how you guys go on. Senator McCain's going to get such a bitch-slapping on Tuesday. All you need do is wait two days and watch.

[hoppy]

spot;1043397 wrote: It's amazing how you guys go on. Senator McCain's going to get such a bitch-slapping on Tuesday. All you need do is wait two days and watch.


Well, tomorrow I'm gonna buy a case of beer either to celebrate with or drown my sorrow.

[Accountable]

Bryn Mawr;1043343 wrote: When was the last time that the US government lived within its means. Looking at the figures that US national debt has been increasing year on year for a long time.Very true! I don't see the connection with my post, but I definately agree with your statement.

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1043397 wrote: It's amazing how you guys go on. Senator McCain's going to get such a bitch-slapping on Tuesday. All you need do is wait two days and watch.


What in all things British is a 'bitch slapping'??? :wah::wah:

[K.Snyder]

oscar;1043427 wrote: What in all things British is a 'bitch slapping'??? :wah::wah:


I have to say I was a bit shocked when I read that piece of literature from spot...

*Edit* Oh and the statement is true I'd like to add.

Should be...:rolleyes:...

[Oscar Namechange]

Hoss;1043405 wrote: Get some root beer too and I'll join you.


I've booked the flight, I'm on my way to join you in the celebrations :-6:-6

[hoppy]

oscar;1043431 wrote: I've booked the flight, I'm on my way to join you in the celebrations :-6:-6


Lets see, that's two cases of beer and a case of root beer. Lol.

[Oscar Namechange]

K.Snyder;1043430 wrote: I have to say I was a bit shocked when I read that piece of literature from spot...

I will tell the local police in our next open meeting that they are going to get a 'bitch-s;apping' I will be arrested. :wah:

[Oscar Namechange]

hoppy;1043432 wrote: Lets see, that's two cases of beer and a case of root beer. Lol.


How we will laugh at the doubters, oh faithful one's, when Ali Bingo is trouced by McCain.

I still don't know what a 'bitch-slapping' is. I think Spot has been mixing in the wrong social circles of late.:-2