RedGlitter;446219 wrote: Hello Anastrophe.
I was actually referring to your comment about were there any non-PC people who had killed a white man for whistling at a white woman, or killed a black guy because he was black. (I'm not pasting your quote because when I try to do that, it shuts my windows) What I took you to mean was that telling an ethnical/stereotypical joke was somehow exemplifying hatred.
but this is what my argument is with regard to these exchanges we're having - you've either misrepresented, or misconstrued, what i wrote. if you're misrepresenting what i wrote, it's a rhetorical game, which i don't care for. if you've misconstrued what i wrote, then i'm not being clear enough in what i write, so it rests on me. here's the exchange:
jimbo wrote:
you people that are looking for the p c stick to bash people and stir things up every where i believe you do more harm to racial harmony then the bigots honestly i do
i replied with a rhetorical question, and replied to it:
paul wrote:
interesting contention. can you point to any non-bigot 'pc' people who have murdered a black man for whistling at a white woman? how about burning a black man alive simply for the fact he was black?
no, i think bigots do a remarkably 'good' job of screwing up racial harmony. being overly sensitive to other people's feeling usually doesn't wind up taking a life.
jimbo stated that he believes that "you people" (presumably non-bigoted, 'pc' people) do more harm to racial harmony than those who are actually bigoted. i think it's a ridiculous contention, when the clear effects of real bigotry are patently available for anyone to see. my reply had nothing to do with ethnic jokes specifically or whether those who use them are bigoted, contrary to how you responded, and i'm not sure how what i wrote could be so misconstrued.
To me, a bigot is an ugly word for an uglyminded ethnicist person. I don't feel the joke in question or in fact, a lot of jokes I've heard present the teller or the laughers as bigots.
but that's part of the problem. because there's no way to empirically state that XYZ is or is not bigoted. it's a subjective determination, and it's one of many shades and degrees. for example, this joke - is it bigoted or a harmless laugh?
Q: How do you define "confusion"?
A: Father's Day in Harlem.
it's a bit of sociological observation in some ways, as it's certainly been shown statistically that fathers tend to be absent from black households in larger proportion than in caucasian households in the US. so, harmless? or is it bigoted for suggesting that this is the norm in black communities, regardless of the statistics? it's a matter of degrees, and personal discretion. i certainly wouldn't feel comfortable making that joke in the presence of someone i didn't already know, who knew that i am not a bigot.
how about this joke:
Q: Why don't Blacks drive convertibles?
A: Their lips would slap them to death in the wind.
where does it lie on the continuum between harmless and bigoted? it's a judgement call. to me, it's patently offensive and mean-spirited. i would never repeat that to someone i didn't know (this use as an example aside, of course).
It's not just you, Anastrophe. I am including anyone who would like me to believe that all of these jokes are insensitive. I did not single you out nor am I sure why you thought I did. I was reacting from all the PC stuff and being told if I find the joke funny then I am obviously insensitive to people's feelings and selectively racist, etc. My name was never mentioned but since I am one who laughed, I presume I was included.
well, of course, since you said "I presume" i can't make the ASSume comment. oh well. i believe most ethnic jokes are insensitive, when repeated by someone who isn't the ethnicity that's the target (though the specific circumstances do make a difference). much like your comment that there's a substantial difference between committing acts of violence towards an ethnic group and simply making jokes about them, i contend that there's a substantial difference between laughing at someone who is different from us, and laughing with someone who is different from us.
If you weren't trying to be nasty, then I sincerely apologize for my comment.
i've not been trying to be intentionally nasty, i'm merely testy, because my comments seem to keep being misconstrued.
I have not seen you around much and possibly don't know how to "read" you yet. Perhaps you feel the same about my posts. Even with emoticons, sometimes just the way people choose to write comes across differently than intended.
sure. i can be blunt and testy, happens all the time. i have strong feelings on the matter. i'm frustrated because i keep saying one thing - essentially "i think these jokes are insensitive and inappropriate", and it seems like everyone else reads that as me saying "you all must stop making insensitive and inappropriate jokes". they're two different statements.
I can appreciate your point about "outsiders" seeing "chinese jews" in a post, I just don't share the same opinion. I would worry more about what current FGers think, and I do care or else I wouldn't keep posting in this thread. I honestly did not find the joke offensive or mean. With all the members in this place, I imagine we could have some people who we could call bigots. But I don't think any of them are in this thread.
I appreciate that you also think PC can go too far at times. I guess we all have different ideas about when those times are.
frankly, i didn't find it particularly mean or offensive either - only mildly so. however, the followup joke someone made (about putting velcro on the ceiling) i found quite offensive, and that's where things diverged.
Maybe this part should be a PM but I'll say it here anyway. I was sincere when I suggested you and I try and start over; meet properly. I was not being sarcastic. Of course that may not be something you'd like to do and I can accept that but the offer's there just the same. I have no personal problems with you or anyone else I've met here so far. Again, I am sorry if I insulted you previously with my comment. Thanks.
we have actually interacted before, but you may have forgotten. in some other thread about religion you gave me high praise for something i wrote (naturally, i can't remember it). i think that may be what set my tone harsher, as i was surprised by what i thought were comments directed at me.
as someone who tends to be emotionally hypersensitive, perhaps i can be excused for the way my emotions vacillate. i yam what i yam. it's not uncommon for people who are insecure and have low self-esteem to act in an aggressive, hyper-inflated manner as compensation. i'm a living, breathing science experiment in that regard.
