Bush visits Iraq to say 'Goodbye' and has shoes thrown at him

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:39 pm

We can now look forward to the trial on December 31st.The journalist's brother, Uday al-Zaidi, confirmed the court date, but made accusations against the Iraqi authorities of beating and abusing his brother. His brother had lost a tooth and had burns on his ears, he told the Associated Press news agency after visiting him in detention on Sunday. He was planning to sue, he told the agency.

Mr Kenani rejected the allegations of abuse. The only marks on Mr al-Zaidi's face were bruises, the judge said, and they were small ones received during the arrest, he told AFP.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraq shoe-thrower set for trial

I'll be annoyed, though unsurprised, if he's given a custodial sentence.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:26 pm

spot;1091701 wrote: We can now look forward to the trial on December 31st.The journalist's brother, Uday al-Zaidi, confirmed the court date, but made accusations against the Iraqi authorities of beating and abusing his brother. His brother had lost a tooth and had burns on his ears, he told the Associated Press news agency after visiting him in detention on Sunday. He was planning to sue, he told the agency.

Mr Kenani rejected the allegations of abuse. The only marks on Mr al-Zaidi's face were bruises, the judge said, and they were small ones received during the arrest, he told AFP.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraq shoe-thrower set for trial

I'll be annoyed, though unsurprised, if he's given a custodial sentence.

I think he picked a rather unfortunate political time to stage his protest. On the brink of Obama taking office and stating he will pull US troops out of Iraq as well as British troops coming out by june, they will be keen not to upset any pledge's to hand Iraq back over to the Iraqi people.

The timing is wrong for him and if it were a year ago, I'd bet he would be treated differently.

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:42 pm

Jester;1091905 wrote: When he is released, due ot the nature of his breaking a security trust I'd make sure he never entered the country again.I do like the "make sure he never entered the country again", he's an Iraqi citizen born in Baghdad.

Have I laid charges? I don't recall doing that. I said something to the effect that a Red Cross inspection would clear up his state of health and that keeping him incommunicado was a pointless raising of the temperature if he has in fact not been tortured. "I also see no proof he has been tortured" is what you'd expect if someone's been kept isolated from any defence team or humanitarian inspectors. It's why people are kept isolated if they've been tortured, it avoids providing proof.

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:11 pm

Jester;1091916 wrote: Hey, we must live with the choices we make, he assaulted a foriegn dignitary he should not be allowed to print another story that occurs inside the country, the only way to prevent him from doing that is to remove him from the country, but then that was my opinion. That would set the example for sure.

You have posted allegation and accusation of wrong doing by the Iraqi government based on heresay. Are you saying you posted those news stories to be fair and balanced?

Can you think of any country in the world where it's legal for the courts to deport a citizen born in that country?

I've quoted news reports relating to Muntadhar al-Zaidi into this thread. I think all of the reports have been from the British Broadcasting Corporation's News website. If you find their journalistic credentials doubtful or their reputation for honest reporting undeserved then that's an opinion but not one you'll find shared by a majority of people in Britain. We're rather pleased with the BBC, by and large.

Here, for contrast, is a non-BBC report. I offer it as an example of biased reporting. I still think it's likely to be true but I prefer to stick to the BBC as less contentious than Islam Online."He was very critical of the US occupiers and Iraqi officials who were supporting them," said Alaa, his colleague. "One of his best reports was on Zahra, a young Iraqi school girl killed by the occupation forces while en route to school," he recalls. Zaidi documented the tragedy in his reportage, complete with interviews with her family, neighbors and friends. "This report earned him the respect of many Iraqis and won him many hearts in Iraq," says Alaa.

After making a name for himself, Zaidi was approached by many rivals, including the US-funded Iraqi Al-Hurra. Zaidi snubbed the offer. "I can not work for a pro-occupation channel," Alaa quoted him as telling one of his friends. "It is a matter of principle."

Muntazer Zaidi…Proud Iraqi, US Critic - IslamOnline.net - News

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:16 pm

Jester;1091919 wrote: The bolded area is your own opinion, which indicates to me that you believe the alleged accusations in this news article. All of which is heresay.

The judge agreed he'd been beaten, his defence lawyer finally got access to him and said the evidence of beatings was obvious, everyone who's seen him describes injuries. It's entirely shameful and entirely predictable that he's been mistreated. The lack of independent medical inspection in itself is enough to tell what's happened. Why on earth the US allies itself with scum like that baffles me.

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:29 pm

Jester;1091928 wrote: So far in this case I have seen nothing wrong with the handling of the criminal.The only criminal in that room was stood at the podium ducking shoes.

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:35 pm

Jester;1091931 wrote: My new policy is to not comment on anti american statements that appear in the threads at Forum Garden... I choose to leave this post go and not comment.

That was entirely anti-Bush and consequently pro-American.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:35 pm

Jester;1091931 wrote: My new policy is to not comment on anti american statements that appear in the threads at Forum Garden... I choose to leave this post go and not comment.

I hear ya!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:51 am

Jester;1091916 wrote: Hey, we must live with the choices we make, he assaulted a foriegn dignitary he should not be allowed to print another story that occurs inside the country, the only way to prevent him from doing that is to remove him from the country, but then that was my opinion. That would set the example for sure.

You have posted allegation and accusation of wrong doing by the Iraqi government based on heresay. Are you saying you posted those news stories to be fair and balanced?

Watch the film again, Jester.

After they've "taken him down" and removed him from the room the interview continues. You can quite clearly hear him screaming in agony in the background - he's already been subdued and is in their control so why is it necessary for them to continue to inflict such pain?

Then, by their own statement, he cannot be brought out for trial in a timely manner because he is too badly injured.

That's not hearsay, it's the evidence placed before you.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:42 am

Jester;1091905 wrote: I don't think given what you said after you said you agreed with me that you agree with me. Im saying I'd have gunned him down before he ever got the second shoe off. If thats not violence shown to him I don't know what is.

.

Apologie's Jester, I gave a conflicting message there.

As i said, I agree with you that if i it were my leader and i had been there, I'd have jumped on the guy same as you.

However, that is myself as a civilian, I do not agree with the way it is reported that he has been treated by the authoritie's. If the authoritie's deal with the protester by showing him violence, then they are no better than him.

Although i don't agree with any violence shown to him, I can not but think he put himself in the position. Surely he could not have thought he get merely a slap on the wrist? He abused his position as a journalist and should have known better.

What ever anyone thinks of Bush, he is an elected world leader and he was assaulted or attempt to assault. The guy knew what he was doing and to be honest, i have little sympathy for ther man especially when he knew of the regime in Iraq.

Every man should have the right to protest but he did it in the worst way possible and could not have expected to get away with it.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:47 am

Jester;1092069 wrote:

I think people here tend to think it was a justified action on this criminals part because of who it was he threw the shoes at. Becasue of that ya'll want to give this man a pulitzer peace prize and forgive him for 'acting impetuously'. I say no dice- he should be prosecuted and held accountable for his actions.

I totally agree. for one, what message would it send to anyone if he got away with it?

prosecution is vital and i hope a short prison sentence to send a message loud and clear.

If not, is he going to turn up in my country in a few years time and throw his shoe's at my Prime Minister? Sorry, i don't agree with his treatment at the hands of the authoritie's but it's his own fault and he can't whinge if he goes down for a few years.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:04 pm

I commend this article, for those interested in local reactions. This is from Beirut.Iraqi National Security Advisor Mowaffak al-Rubaie said there were other civilized means to express one's opinion, but al Zaidi preferred a "barbaric" one. Barbarism, Mr. Mowaffak, is occupying Iraq for deliberately trumped up reasons and killing one million Iraqis, a crime that Tatars or even Saddam Hussein did not commit. Barbarism is condemning the hurled shoes that neither kill nor leave the slightest scratch and keeping silence as Iraqis are killed on a daily basis.

[...] In the press conference he had in Baghdad with PM Nouri el-Maliki, George Bush said that invading Iraq "was necessary for US security, Iraqi stability (literally, I swear by God) and world peace." Is there more political obscenity than this? "Necessary for the security of Iraq" means that it is allowed, justified and accepted to occupy and destroy a country with no ties whatsoever to the terrorism that hit the US, and kill hundreds of thousands of its citizens. The security of the Americans is more important than the lives of Iraqis; even these two are unrelated.

"Iraqi stability" can only be said by a madman or a sane person who thinks he is talking to madmen: there is no stability whatsoever in Iraq and this I do not need to explain.

"World peace" too does not increase or decrease if Iraq is occupied and its citizens killed. The fact of the matter is that occupation has fomented terrorism around the world.

Dar Al Hayat

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:16 pm

Jester;1092069 wrote: As I said, he probably sustained his injuries in the take down, being marched away forcefully probably hurt as well, and he may have then had a lot of fear too. He did have two prior arrests.

Show me any statement of an Iraqi official that admits he was beaten or tortured beyond what his initial arrest shows.

I think people here tend to think it was a justified action on this criminals part because of who it was he threw the shoes at. Becasue of that ya'll want to give this man a pulitzer peace prize and forgive him for 'acting impetuously'. I say no dice- he should be prosecuted and held accountable for his actions.

Show me a statement by any arresting agency that admits, at the time of the arrest rather than after it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt, that the suspect has been beaten or tortured and I will respond in kind. Until then this is a joke request.

Reasonable force is to be expected - to be unable to produce the accused or even to allow a single inspection of the accused after the arrest is an admission of guilt.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:22 pm

Jester;1092658 wrote: Thats your opinion. And thats fine. Until proof is verified its an accusation against the Iraqi government.

If I were the Iraqi government I'd not allow any contact with anyone outside of the government until his trial was complete and his sentence was carried out. I'd do this to block any communication to any of the terror orgs which he alegedly has contact with. I would permit censored mail only to and from him.

He committed a crime and should be punished and its nobodies business but the government and his.

Ask the International Committee of the Red Cross what problems this has led to in the past - inspection by an impartial body is the only way to prevent abuse of prisoners by rogue regimes and the only protection a regime has of accusations of abuse.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:33 pm

Jester;1092658 wrote: Thats your opinion. And thats fine. Until proof is verified its an accusation against the Iraqi government.

If I were the Iraqi government I'd not allow any contact with anyone outside of the government until his trial was complete and his sentence was carried out. I'd do this to block any communication to any of the terror orgs which he alegedly has contact with. I would permit censored mail only to and from him.

He committed a crime and should be punished and its nobodies business but the government and his.

They're the Iraqi Government in name only. In practice they're the stooges of the Bush Administration, they climbed onto the gravy train and now they don't know how to switch lines. They'll learn.

You're promoting Muntadar Al Zaidi to terrorist sympathiser now? And there was me thinking he was just a detractor of George Bush and his crony profiteers. There was me thinking he was just furious about all the Iraqi deaths since the occupation started.

How does a Red Cross inspection provide a conduit to "terror orgs"?

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:02 pm

It's rather unsettling to note that, on a rather specious and inadequate excuse, Muntadar al-Zaidi is still deemed too dangerous to allow a defence team or relative into his presence or to produce him in court where his injuries can be observed.The trial of the Iraqi man who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush earlier this month has been postponed.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraq shoe thrower trial postponed

One rather wonders why four thousand US recruits have so far died there, it obviously wasn't to bring law to a previously lawless country.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:20 pm

spot;1096971 wrote: It's rather unsettling to note that, on a rather specious and inadequate excuse, Muntadar al-Zaidi is still deemed too dangerous to allow a defence team or relative into his presence or to produce him in court where his injuries can be observed.The trial of the Iraqi man who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush earlier this month has been postponed.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraq shoe thrower trial postponed

One rather wonders why four thousand US recruits have so far died there, it obviously wasn't to bring law to a previously lawless country.

It's very suspicious. Any injurie's he would have sustained whilst he was wrestled to the ground after the incident and later in his cell would surely have faded by now if not very serious.

His absense is quite chilling. Although i wanted the man prosecuted, i did always say that i did not condone the violence shown towards him. This makes me quite worried for him now.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:49 pm

it was a sheer act of disrespect for a leader!

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:49 pm

Odie;1096993 wrote: it was a sheer act of disrespect for a leader!Habeas Corpus is obviously not a strong point for American Occupations.

But then, neither is being remotely interested in non-US body counts other than to do their darndest to suppress them. Or was that what what Barbara Bush meant when she said "why should we hear about body bags and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or that or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it's not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that". Maybe supressing body counts is George's way of helping Mommy be proud of her little war criminal.

It's hard to think of any single world leader since the Emperor Nero who quite so deserves disrespect.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:01 pm

Odie;1096993 wrote: it was a sheer act of disrespect for a leader!

I have always said on this thread that he should be prosecuted and serve a prison sentence, but i find his absence worrying now.

Is he still alive even i wonder? Would the Iraqi's go that far to appease Bush.

There was an article a few days ago here that said his actions had held up the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Maybe the Iraqi's are really pissed with the guy??

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:40 pm

The Iraqi Quisling is digging himself a hole from which he'll find it hard to ever release Muntadar al-Zaidi and see the lies challenged by the man himself. Last week, al-Maliki sought to undermine the journalist's popularity by saying he had confessed that the mastermind of the attack was a militant known for slitting his victims' throats.

Al-Maliki said that in a letter of apology to him, al-Zaidi wrote that a known militant had induced him to throw the shoes. The alleged instigator has never been identified, and neither al-Maliki nor any of his officials has provided a further explanation. The letter was not made public.

The journalist's family denied the claim and alleged that al-Zaidi was tortured into writing the letter.

Court delays trial over shoes flung at Bush

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:52 am

spot;1097968 wrote: The Iraqi Quisling is digging himself a hole from which he'll find it hard to ever release Muntadar al-Zaidi and see the lies challenged by the man himself. Last week, al-Maliki sought to undermine the journalist's popularity by saying he had confessed that the mastermind of the attack was a militant known for slitting his victims' throats.

Al-Maliki said that in a letter of apology to him, al-Zaidi wrote that a known militant had induced him to throw the shoes. The alleged instigator has never been identified, and neither al-Maliki nor any of his officials has provided a further explanation. The letter was not made public.

The journalist's family denied the claim and alleged that al-Zaidi was tortured into writing the letter.

Court delays trial over shoes flung at Bush

And still no sign of him? Worrying.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:39 am

There's been little in the press since Muntadar al-Zaidi's trial was postponed indefinitely.

I found this though, in American Footprints January 4, 2009: Concerns Over Transferring Prisoners To Iraqi Control

Jan. 4, 2009 (American Footprints delivered by Newstex) -- On January 1, 2009 the new Status of Forces Agreement came into affect.

Part of the deal involves turning over prisoners held by the Americans to Iraqi authorities. The U.S. has around 15,000 detainees that will begin being handed over to Baghdad's control in February. Many human rights groups are concerned about how they will be treated in Iraqi jails. International organizations and Iraqi officials have all reported that human rights violations are common in Iraqi detention facilities. Amnesty Internationals Middle East director told the Financial Times that charges of torture and abuse by Iraqi police and guards often occurred.

In mid-December 2008 the Minister of Women Affairs Nawal al-Samarrai said women prisoners were routinely beaten and faced bad conditions. The United Nations December 2008 human rights report on Iraq found that mistreatment was common in Iraqi prisons. Many are tortured, stuffed into prisons beyond capacity, receive no legal aid, and wait for months to years before ever seeing a judge. In Kurdistan, it found that the Kurdish authorities moved prisoners to secret detention facilities before U.N. officials came to inspect their jails.

The most recent and publicized case involving abuse is that of journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi who threw his shoes at President Bush. According to his brother guards beat al-Zaidi with metal pipes. Most importantly, these beatings have become an accepted part of Iraqs justice system. Human Rights Watch found that courts and judges know that police and guards beat prisoners to gain confessions, yet often accept the evidence anyway.

Iraq's court system also lacks due process because of sectarianism and political influence. A group of U.S. funded Iraqi lawyers for example, working at the Rusafa Prison in Baghdad told the Los Angeles Times that the Ministry of Justice regularly bends the rules to keep prisoners behind bars. The attorneys said that because most of the prisoners were Sunni, the Justice Ministry did not trust them. That led officials to not follow release orders or they drummed up extra charges to keep detainees in jail. Minister Samarrai added that political parties and militias hold sway over the courts and judges. The result of both is that prisoners often remain in incarcerated indefinitely.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:12 am

Finally, I'm delighted to say, the jailers of Muntazer al-Zaidi have nursed him back to sufficient health to allow a visit from his brother.Medical records seen by Dhiyaa al-Saadi, his lawyer, allegedly show that Mr al-Zaidi suffered bleeding in the left eye, a cut nose, a missing tooth, and bruises on his upper and lower limbs, especially around the abdomen and the back, after his arrest.

'Shoe man' Muntazer al-Zaidi looking well, says brother after jail visit - Times Online

I'm surprised to discover that he's still alive. He should be granted amnesty immediately, there's no benefit to anyone in forcing him through a show trial and further imprisonment.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:25 am

spot;1112160 wrote: Finally, I'm delighted to say, the jailers of Muntazer al-Zaidi have nursed him back to sufficient health to allow a visit from his brother.Medical records seen by Dhiyaa al-Saadi, his lawyer, allegedly show that Mr al-Zaidi suffered bleeding in the left eye, a cut nose, a missing tooth, and bruises on his upper and lower limbs, especially around the abdomen and the back, after his arrest.

'Shoe man' Muntazer al-Zaidi looking well, says brother after jail visit - Times Online

I'm surprised to discover that he's still alive. He should be granted amnesty immediately, there's no benefit to anyone in forcing him through a show trial and further imprisonment.

I'm very pleased to see this but not surprised about the injuries. Now the World has publically condemned Bush as the worst President in history as is about to leave office, perhaps they should grant him a pardon after all?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:28 pm

oscar;1112164 wrote: I'm very pleased to see this but not surprised about the injuries. Now the World has publically condemned Bush as the worst President in history as is about to leave office, perhaps they should grant him a pardon after all?

You know they've recently developed methane burning engines?

I can hear the pigs revved up and ready for take off from here!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:48 pm

Bryn Mawr;1112505 wrote: You know they've recently developed methane burning engines?

I can hear the pigs revved up and ready for take off from here!

Bryn...really! tut tut

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:15 pm

Heads up.

The Iraqi man who threw his shoes at former US President George W Bush in December is to go on trial in Baghdad. Muntadar al-Zaidi is charged with assaulting a foreign leader and faces a maximum sentence of 15 years. His lawyers argue he was simply expressing his views in a country where passions are still inflamed after the US-led invasion in 2003. The TV reporter achieved global notoriety by his actions, which were celebrated across the Arab world.

The trial is due to open on Thursday morning in Baghdad.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraqi shoe thrower to go on trial

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 pm

And back to sleep again. The trial's been held back until March.In his first public appearance since his arrest, Mr Zaidi was met in court by applause, ululating and chanting. The journalist wore an Iraqi flag draped over his shoulders.

He appeared fit and well, despite reports from friends and family that he was badly beaten shortly after his arrest. But a BBC reporter who saw Mr Zaidi at close quarters said his right front tooth was missing.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraqi shoe thrower trial delayed

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:19 am

If anything were needed to confirm that the current state of Iraq is a US satrapy this is it.

You'll know when Iraq is once again a free country. Its captive courts won't give out unjust sentences like this (or the fifteen years for Tariq Aziz) any longer.

The war's very nearly over. I look forward to a genuine Iraqi leader taking charge of the country again.

An Iraqi journalist hailed as a hero in the Arab world for throwing his shoes at former US President George W Bush has been jailed for three years. Muntadar al-Zaidi had told the court his actions were "natural, just like any Iraqi" against a leader whose forces had occupied his country.

[...] Asked by presiding judge Abdul-Amir al-Rubaie if he was innocent or guilty, Zaidi replied: "I am innocent. What I did was a natural response to the occupation."

After the final arguments by the defence lawyers, everyone was told to leave the room. The judges deliberated for a further 15 minutes, and an increasingly frustrated crowd gathered outside. When news of the sentence filtered through, some relatives began to cry and scream insults at the judges.

They shouted "It's an American court", "He's a hero", "Down with President Bush" and "God is great".

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraqi jailed for Bush shoe attack

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:04 am

Scrat;1156333 wrote: You may be speaking too soon. I don't think its over yet, the insirgents are becoming more active.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in what I said. The insurgents are, in my opinion, going to form the government once Iraq regains its autonomy, and a good thing too.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:17 pm

Yeah, definetly a bit harsh there, one suspects he won't be serving the full sentence, at least I hope not.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:11 pm

Galbally;1156463 wrote: Yeah, definetly a bit harsh there, one suspects he won't be serving the full sentence, at least I hope not.

You suspect they'll kill him before he's due for release? I hope not and I think it's a bit too blatant even for them.

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:56 pm

I note that the Independent today had a leading article about this. It's short, I take the unusual liberty of quoting it in fullIf public opinion had anything to do with it, Muntadar al-Zaidi would not be commencing a three-year sentence in an Iraqi prison, but being borne aloft through the streets of Baghdad. For if there was one act that defined the contempt felt by many for the Bush presidency, it was the hurling of those shoes in his direction, described by Mr Zaidi as "a farewell kiss" from Iraqis who had been killed, orphaned or widowed since the invasion.

It will be scant consolation to Mr Zaidi, as his lawyers prepare his appeal, to know that a giant golden shoe monument now stands in Tikrit – once known only as Saddam Hussein's hometown. Confined to prison, he may not know either that, thanks to him, shoe-throwing is now a favourite gesture of disapproval far beyond the Arab world. But it is in Iraq where his achievement is arguably greatest: as the furious response to his trial showed, that shoe has united Iraqis. The president should pardon him forthwith.

Leading article: Foot soldier - Leading Articles, Opinion - The Independent

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:55 am

It was a stupid thing to do if he valued his freedom. But he was making a statement. He knew there would be consequences. That he got prison time as opposed to a beheading is a testament to progress.

What justice would be served if someone here threw a water balloon at Bush ?

They couldnt just let him walk. Its diplomacy. Thats good.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:20 am

The fact that I can quote a leading article from Britain's most prestigious and centrist national daily newspaper which argues otherwise is at least a good indication of the state of public opinion here in England.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:39 am

spot;1157634 wrote: The fact that I can quote a leading article from Britain's most prestigious and centrist national daily newspaper which argues otherwise is at least a good indication of the state of public opinion here in England.

Hes a hero.

But you cant throw things at Presidents and then just walk out of the room.

Id would love to throw a shoe at Bush and Cheney but I understand if I do Ill pay.

So he'll pay.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:46 am

Nomad;1157642 wrote: Hes a hero.

But you cant throw things at Presidents and then just walk out of the room.

Id would love to throw a shoe at Bush and Cheney but I understand if I do Ill pay.

So he'll pay.

And yet your government would pay you 25 million dollars to bring in Osama bin Laden dead. It seems an imbalanced approach given that both had exactly the same objective and both killed lots of people. Perhaps it's because Osama bin Laden was entirely successful in achieving his objectives while George Bush fortunately wasn't?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:30 am

spot;1157646 wrote: And yet your government would pay you 25 million dollars to bring in Osama bin Laden dead. It seems an imbalanced approach given that both had exactly the same objective and both killed lots of people. Perhaps it's because Osama bin Laden was entirely successful in achieving his objectives while George Bush fortunately wasn't?

I get that but its a bit of apples and oranges.

The American people have a right to bring Bin Laden to justice. Dead or alive may not be proper justice but hes already pled guilty and the end result would be the same.

Youre going astray from the topic of man throws shoe.

Theres a bigger picture at hand and Im not disagreeing that the shoe throwing was a nation of people throwing that symbolic shoe. He will pay and so will we. And dont act like you werent holding our hands from beginning to end.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:46 pm

Nomad;1157672 wrote: I get that but its a bit of apples and oranges.

The American people have a right to bring Bin Laden to justice. Dead or alive may not be proper justice but hes already pled guilty and the end result would be the same.

Youre going astray from the topic of man throws shoe.

Theres a bigger picture at hand and Im not disagreeing that the shoe throwing was a nation of people throwing that symbolic shoe. He will pay and so will we. And dont act like you werent holding our hands from beginning to end.

My government was. I was protesting the actions of my government. Where were you?

George Bush did your country far more harm than Osama bin Laden ever did.