What Would Cause You To Leave?

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote: I don't have time for this.



I kind of know how you feel. Like I said a while back you need to find a place that you basically can't resist. The area around Moscow is pretty much like upstate New York or Michigan. Chilae is a lot like Cali in many ways.



It's tough if you don't like what I think about America, in all fairness there is good and bad here but IMO more bad than good this last decade, it's just an opinion. If you don't like it don't read what I type.



I am through with this.



Ciao!!!
no problem. i'd run away too if i were unable to defend my stance.



rational argument: 1

whining: 0

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote: I could hunt down enough stuff from all over the world to fill a 1000 books, I don't have the time or the inclination to broaden your narrow mind.



Pizda.
you still don't get it. anyone with a credit card can visit nearly any part of the world. any idiot can go to google and find those interesting bits of stuff from all over the world. anybody can expound about evil mean old america by employing the freedom you have here to complain with impunity.



the title of the topic is 'what would cause you to leave'. ancillary, it has been a discussion of what other countries one might consider moving to. note well: moving to, not traipsing about on your eurorail card and trusty american citizenship.



you continue to try to turn this into a discussion of how i'm some kind of superbigot superpatriot, narrowminded, no concept of drinking beer in front of the kremlin as the be-all, end-all of great places to live.



frankly, i'm happy to leave it at that. the best freaking example you've been able to come up with is drinking beer in front of the kremlin.



we know where your priorities are. do send us a postcard when you eventually move to that greater-than-the-US pie-in-the-sky you think is out there. trust me, i'm not going to hold my breath. i'd wager you'll never move out of the US, and never give up your US citizenship.

[BTS]

anastrophe wrote:



Now, try to follow along. the statement "When I am planning on going is none of your business" (emphasis mine), very definitely implies that you DO plan on leaving. think about it. would the following exchange make sense?

"when i go to the store, i think i'll buy an avocado"

"cool, can you pick up some chips too, we'll make some guacamole"

"when have i ever said that going to the store was my sole aim?"

"uh, okay, don't get your panties in a bunch, it sure sounded like you were planning on going to the store"

"don't be ridiculous. i was merely idly speculating about the nature of going to the store"



whee. we can play that game all year long.

?anastrophe:

You can be my TEACHER any day........

[abbey]

Sorry to butt in guys, just curious as to what Pizda means

[buttercup]

the title is 'what would cause you to leave' not argue

save energy, why bother

[anastrophe]

buttercup wrote: the title is 'what would cause you to leave' not argue

save energy, why bother
argumentation is part of discussion, frequently. ForumGarden is a place to discuss things. Sometimes we argue. The issues we have been discussing are related to the topic.

[BTS]

abbey wrote: Sorry to butt in guys, just curious as to what Pizda means
Originally Posted by Scrat

I could hunt down enough stuff from all over the world to fill a 1000 books, I don't have the time or the inclination to broaden your narrow mind.

Pizda.





Here is a google on it "Pizda"

Judge for yourself, but it appears to be mainly porn related?



http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... en&q=Pizda

[anastrophe]

Here you go:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Pizda





translation (no, not a translation of pizda, go to the url above for the literal translation - this is my translation of scrat's posting of that)



"for lack of the ability to form a cogent argument or simple rebuttal, i'll resort to childish epithets"

[buttercup]

anastrophe wrote: argumentation is part of discussion, frequently. ForumGarden is a place to discuss things. Sometimes we argue. The issues we have been discussing are related to the topic.


but you are getting nowhere with it, so why continue, stubbornness?

[anastrophe]

buttercup wrote: but you are getting nowhere with it, so why continue, stubbornness?
i disagree with your assessment that we're getting nowhere with it.

[buttercup]

anastrophe wrote: i disagree with your assessment that we're getting nowhere with it.


:wah: exactly what i would expect you to say anastrophe

[anastrophe]

buttercup wrote: :wah: exactly what i would expect you to say anastrophe
i'm glad i can provide some amusement for you.

[Der Wulf]

Scrat wrote:

America does have beauty, but very little of it. Anyone that lives here has a duty unto themselves to look and to find other options because America is not the best thing since sliced bread. America has a dubious quality of life compared to other places I have been, if you peel away the cheap decor and facades what you find is not pretty at all.



Goodnight.
The view is pretty unpleasant in there, aint it Scrat.

[anastrophe]

finally, a halfway decent rebuttal.



Scrat wrote: It's almost getting circular. Anastrophe is right, THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE between America and many other places in the world and materially we are much better than some of them.unfortunately, you completely contradict this opening premise later on. oh well.





His point of view is that the America he knows is the best thing since sliced bread. He thinks that way because he has never spent any length of time anywhere else. I have spent months abroad, years in total in other places. I have cooked in the Persian Gulf and saw rats in Siberia that have FURRY TAILS!!!that's cool. you're correct, i've not spent much time abroad. in fact, besides a very short trip to mazatlan in 1992 to see the total solar eclipse, i've *never* spent time anywhere else. oh, i've been from one end of the US to the other, spent time in various places from vermont to colorado to ohio to oregon, but outside of the US, nada. The trip to mazatlan was wonderful, i was very much into birdwatching at the time, and saw a whole bunch of terrific mexican native birds when we took a drive into the wilds for a day.



mexico wouldn't be too bad a place, except for the banditos on the desolate roads, the total ban on guns for the law-abiding, the corrupt police, and the fairly corrupt political system in general. but a lot of gringos move there later in life, the exchange rate makes for a good retirement.



yes, i do think the US is the next best thing to sliced bread. believing that doesn't mean a concommitant blindness to the problems we have as well. it's a false dichotomy. i can love my country *and* acknowledge its problems.





I think that Americans are not as free as they think they are, being "free" to slap down your credit card and go into debt to see the world isn't a good thing, debt is just another form of slavery and the vast majority of Americans CANNOT afford to travel freely around the world. Believe me when it comes to debt slavery Americans are numero uno there.actually, you're wrong there. well, okay, i can't say 'wrong' because i have no data to back it up, but the fact is, for most people, it's a _choice_ not to travel. give up the bigscreen TV, the diesel V8 truck for the thirty mile commute to work, the $2.75 latte every morning at starbucks, and you've got a trip to New Zealand.



debt is a sort of slavery, except that it's chosen also, more often than not. most people make more than enough - they just don't live within their means.

but there are other freedoms we have here in this country that i wouldn't trade for any other country's idea of freedom.





How many Americans actually realistically own their homes and land? Very few, most households in America are one paycheck away from losing everything.i don't think that's the case. some people, not most.



You own some land out in the country? A deed for 100 acres? Do you really own it? That all depends on the politicians. They may pass a CAO (critical areas ordinance) that says you cannot touch 65 of those acres and you cannot build on more than a third of 1 of those 100 acres. i don't own any land in the country, but one of my brothers does (and he's not wealthy, he lives off the grid out there). i'm well aware of abuse of property rights by politicians. he's constantly at odds with the 'mid peninsula open space district', an unelected body that likes to 'checkerboard' - buy a property to your left, buy a property to your right, then declare an easement and boot you out. really execrable human beings.





Confused yet?

not particularly, but thanks for asking.





Just wait until you have the ATF and pot squad bashing down your front door with a warrant and charges against you for the 6 acres of Marijuana plants growing on your 100 acres of land in amongst the nonnative blackberry bushes that you were not allow to touch because your land is part of a "critical area".okay. this is a nice fictional story. oh, i know stuff like this happens, but what you're describing is a rare occurrance, not a common occurrence. unless you're suggesting that 'most americans own property in the country'.





Following me so far? No?

oh, i'm following fine, thanks for asking.





Here's a lawyer that can help you out of your predicament. He charges $450 p/h and after many months of litigation finally proves that you had no idea that the neighbors kids had a multimillion dollar pot growing operation in your nonnative blackberry forest but that you had the option of paying $5000 dollars for the professional removal of said forest and are therefore partially responsible and must pay a fine for allowing a nonnative species to run amuck on your property. more of the same fictional story. again, i don't doubt you may have read a story in Mother Jones about it, but that doesn't make it common, or rampant.





What? You don't have the money? I know somebody that can help you.



This is Mr Bildfastmore. He knows your situation and feels your plight. He may have the solution to your problem.

You owe $500,000, he is prepared to offer you $500,100 for your 100 acres. It's a deal that I advise you to take. Really, what choice do you have?okay, thanks for that third installment of the fictional story. i know similar things have happened to some people. it sucks majorly that it has happened. and i agree it's a problem. of course, it's less of a problem than in some other countries where if that pot had been found on your land, you'd never have 'needed' a lawyer, because the system of justice is far more efficient - you'd have just 'disappeared'. la guardia nacionale would have dispensed with the criminal who had marijuana growing on his land.





Freedom in America is an illusion. Freedom does not exist in this physical universe, only (perhaps in death) are you free.well, that's a dandy leap you took there. from a guy in a lot of hot water and troubles due to kids growing pot on his uninhabited rural land, to the incredible claim that freedom does not exist at all!



get a grip. freedom in america is very real, freedom does indeed exist in the physical universe, and in death, you aren't free, you're dead.



sheesh.





Anastrophe may own a winery in Sonoma county or a business who knows? He may be successful and own (?) many nice things but what really counts is the quality of the life you lead.that's another cute segue. i'm sure it would make your day if i was some rich fatcat, more proof that the idle rich are a bane on The Workers of the world.



well, sorry to disappoint you. oh, a few years ago i was making six figures, now i'm living on debt and very minimal income. sure, i'm getting by, but it's going to take years to get back to 'zero' financially.



however, you're quite right in the last half of your second sentence. what really counts is the quality of the life you lead. in that regard, i'm reasonably satisfied. i have a wife i love, i do 'own' a nice home, i have two pets i love, and i enjoy what i do for a living, i only wish i earned more for it. yeah, i have a lot of material stuff. i see no moral or ethical 'crime' in that.





If I were to fall dead at age 60 in a place that is beautiful, be it by the blue sea on the Crimean coast, or by a lake in a forest that stretches for 6,000 miles across continents it's a hell of a lot better than dying at the age of 80 having handed over for years my retirement to a bunch of greedy drug companies and endured god knows what on operating tables at the mercy of the most advanced "medicine" man can devise. Personally I'll pick the former. cool for you. would you agree that it's each person's OWN choice to make, how they live their life? here in the US, unlike an awful lot of the rest of the world, we have the freedom to live how we want, for better or worse.



oh, and you'll never get my agreement on the 'greedy drug companies' crap. yeah, they make billions of dollars. and they spend billions of dollars to create these wonder drugs. in a market economy, they have a right to charge what the market will bear. if you get cancer, and don't want to pay the greedy drug companies for the chemotherapy, nobody is compelling you to do so. if you'd rather die than pay, by all means. people act like the companies have some freaking obligation to just give away what they discover. guess what we'd be using to treat cancer right now if not for a market economy - radium bracelets.





America does have beauty, but very little of it.now you're sounding like you've spent your whole life in a trailer park in podunk missouri. if you think there's very little beauty here, then you need to get out more. what's the grand canyon, a big ugly dirt hole to you?





Anyone that lives here has a duty unto themselves to look and to find other options because America is not the best thing since sliced bread. America has a dubious quality of life compared to other places I have been, if you peel away the cheap decor and facades what you find is not pretty at all. well, back to the beginning. so, drop a post here when you leave. i don't think it's ever going to happen, but maybe you'll prove me wrong.



i still maintain that spending time in other countries, even months, is not in any way comparable to taking the actual step to move to another country, drop your US citizenship, and become a naturalized citizen of another country. if you do that, i'll eat a heaping plate of crow.

[David813]

I'm with Scrat.

[David813]

anastrophe wrote: finally, a halfway decent rebuttal.



unfortunately, you completely contradict this opening premise later on. oh well.



that's cool. you're correct, i've not spent much time abroad. in fact, besides a very short trip to mazatlan in 1992 to see the total solar eclipse, i've *never* spent time anywhere else. oh, i've been from one end of the US to the other, spent time in various places from vermont to colorado to ohio to oregon, but outside of the US, nada. The trip to mazatlan was wonderful, i was very much into birdwatching at the time, and saw a whole bunch of terrific mexican native birds when we took a drive into the wilds for a day.



mexico wouldn't be too bad a place, except for the banditos on the desolate roads, the total ban on guns for the law-abiding, the corrupt police, and the fairly corrupt political system in general. but a lot of gringos move there later in life, the exchange rate makes for a good retirement.



yes, i do think the US is the next best thing to sliced bread. believing that doesn't mean a concommitant blindness to the problems we have as well. it's a false dichotomy. i can love my country *and* acknowledge its problems.



actually, you're wrong there. well, okay, i can't say 'wrong' because i have no data to back it up, but the fact is, for most people, it's a _choice_ not to travel. give up the bigscreen TV, the diesel V8 truck for the thirty mile commute to work, the $2.75 latte every morning at starbucks, and you've got a trip to New Zealand.



debt is a sort of slavery, except that it's chosen also, more often than not. most people make more than enough - they just don't live within their means.

but there are other freedoms we have here in this country that i wouldn't trade for any other country's idea of freedom.



i don't think that's the case. some people, not most.



i don't own any land in the country, but one of my brothers does (and he's not wealthy, he lives off the grid out there). i'm well aware of abuse of property rights by politicians. he's constantly at odds with the 'mid peninsula open space district', an unelected body that likes to 'checkerboard' - buy a property to your left, buy a property to your right, then declare an easement and boot you out. really execrable human beings.



not particularly, but thanks for asking.



okay. this is a nice fictional story. oh, i know stuff like this happens, but what you're describing is a rare occurrance, not a common occurrence. unless you're suggesting that 'most americans own property in the country'.



oh, i'm following fine, thanks for asking.



more of the same fictional story. again, i don't doubt you may have read a story in Mother Jones about it, but that doesn't make it common, or rampant.



okay, thanks for that third installment of the fictional story. i know similar things have happened to some people. it sucks majorly that it has happened. and i agree it's a problem. of course, it's less of a problem than in some other countries where if that pot had been found on your land, you'd never have 'needed' a lawyer, because the system of justice is far more efficient - you'd have just 'disappeared'. la guardia nacionale would have dispensed with the criminal who had marijuana growing on his land.



well, that's a dandy leap you took there. from a guy in a lot of hot water and troubles due to kids growing pot on his uninhabited rural land, to the incredible claim that freedom does not exist at all!



get a grip. freedom in america is very real, freedom does indeed exist in the physical universe, and in death, you aren't free, you're dead.



sheesh.



that's another cute segue. i'm sure it would make your day if i was some rich fatcat, more proof that the idle rich are a bane on The Workers of the world.



well, sorry to disappoint you. oh, a few years ago i was making six figures, now i'm living on debt and very minimal income. sure, i'm getting by, but it's going to take years to get back to 'zero' financially.



however, you're quite right in the last half of your second sentence. what really counts is the quality of the life you lead. in that regard, i'm reasonably satisfied. i have a wife i love, i do 'own' a nice home, i have two pets i love, and i enjoy what i do for a living, i only wish i earned more for it. yeah, i have a lot of material stuff. i see no moral or ethical 'crime' in that.



cool for you. would you agree that it's each person's OWN choice to make, how they live their life? here in the US, unlike an awful lot of the rest of the world, we have the freedom to live how we want, for better or worse.



oh, and you'll never get my agreement on the 'greedy drug companies' crap. yeah, they make billions of dollars. and they spend billions of dollars to create these wonder drugs. in a market economy, they have a right to charge what the market will bear. if you get cancer, and don't want to pay the greedy drug companies for the chemotherapy, nobody is compelling you to do so. if you'd rather die than pay, by all means. people act like the companies have some freaking obligation to just give away what they discover. guess what we'd be using to treat cancer right now if not for a market economy - radium bracelets.



now you're sounding like you've spent your whole life in a trailer park in podunk missouri. if you think there's very little beauty here, then you need to get out more. what's the grand canyon, a big ugly dirt hole to you?



well, back to the beginning. so, drop a post here when you leave. i don't think it's ever going to happen, but maybe you'll prove me wrong.



i still maintain that spending time in other countries, even months, is not in any way comparable to taking the actual step to move to another country, drop your US citizenship, and become a naturalized citizen of another country. if you do that, i'll eat a heaping plate of crow.
Could you eat a plate of baby ducks!!

[buttercup]

now THAT was a discussion

scrat was your fictional story inspired by wills interview with the national security agency in the film ' good will hunting ' similarity is incredible

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote: I think you do America a disservice with your sheeplike willingness to just go with the flow and accept the good and the bad. Whatever you do just keep the arse in front of you in sight. I am motivated to find and fix problems and tend to disdain non solution oriented ways of thinking. mmm-hmm. and so, what exactly *are* you doing to make things better and to fix problems, hmm? talk is cheap. dirt cheap. you can puff up your chest about how you're not a sheep, and you're a solution oriented gal, blah blah blah. what are you doing to make things better, if anything?



Give me a break!!! Your average american doesn't have a clue how to spend their money. They have no idea of the concept of compound interest and how it works. It's not a "choice" if it is made under adverse circumstances, it's not a "choice" if the person was never educated in physical reality, critical thought or plain old commonsense.

Americans don't make many choices anymore, they have them made for them.well, you have a pretty concrete mental picture of the average american. that's great, but it bears no resemblance to reality. what you're saying, basically, is that you are superior to everyone else. *you* do have a concept of compound interest, everybody else is clueless. *you* have been educated in 'physical reality' (what other reality would you be referring to, pray?), the rest of the americans out there are just sheep living an illusion (if you believe that, then are you suggesting that a peasant in romania is less sheeplike, simply because of their location on the planet?)





The housing market has been on fire lately around here. Most of the loans given were variable rate home loans. Let's see how many of these people still have a home when the interest rates double in the next few years. So much for the American dream. i'm sure you'll hoot with glee if that happens, as it will confirm your premise. schadenfreude is quite a sport, i will admit.







We need a more efficient system of justice. so you think it's better to have the landowner shot in the back of the head by the authorities, rather than the miscreants who trespassed on his land and put him in that position by their actions? nice.









Whatever you convince yourself of. Just try not paying your taxes, freedom is all or nothing wouldn't you say? I guess you can settle for less if you want, I choose not to. i absolutely do not accept that freedom is all or nothing, that's got to be one of the most ignorant, naive comments i've read in a long time (ad hominem, woot!). so, freedom is all or nothing, huh? so, if given a choice of a slice of blueberry pie, and a slice of apple pie, if i choose the pecan pie and it doesn't magically appear, i've been Screwed By The Man!



freedom of choice doesn't mean you can do anything you want at all times. it means that you do have a choice, but the existence of external restrictions does not then mean that you are not free.



and anyway, what a ridiculous argument. 'just try not paying your taxes'. okay. where you planning on moving where there's ZERO restrictions from the government, aside from living a total primitive, perhaps tribal life, say, deep in the amazon? you think russia has no government restrictions? germany? so, you've said you think they're 'better' than the US, does that mean you'll be Free, within your definition of all-or-nothing, if you move there? oh, wait. of course, america is hardly any different from other countries, you said it yourself. so.....you're screwed. you'll never be free. that park over there has a sign that says All Dogs Must Be Leashed - you're screwed! Screwed By The Man! you'll never be free, because there's that damn government restricting your freedom.



sheeeeee-eeeesh, just as you said. what a Crock of Whinery.





And your "free"? I'm in ways more fortunate than you and intend to stay that way.well, of course - you're a Superior Human Being. your way of living is vastly superior to all the sheep out there. and if someone doesn't adopt your way of living - well, they're just so much flotsam and jetsam on the sea of your freedom. whee.





Aside from the wife and the pets and home I bet if you could go back and do it again it would be done differently. No disrespect intended. Keep in mind you have no right to come to me on the dole either.
ahem. 1. i can't go back and do my life again. that's one of the most important concepts of Being. why anyone would bother even thinking about 'if i had it to do over again' is time you'll never get back, thinking about that which cannot be. long story short: you lose your bet, implicitly. why would you even assume that 'aside from the things i love in life' i'd want to do it all over again? well, uh, gee. yeah, if i didn't have the things i love in life, then i'd be pretty sad. but i'm not sad, because i have the things i love in my life. good lord. can you do no better with your arguments than posing a hypothetical opposite of my life, and suggesting i'd want to be exactly how i am now?



oh, and just a little fyi: i've never taken a dime of government dole in my life, and i never will. sorry to disappoint. but beyond that, why of all people would i come to you? you'll be living in russia!







Yes I think the Grand Canyon is just a hole. The old indian ruins down there are quite interesting though. Chaico canyon ect. The Yangtsee river is a lot more beautiful than the the GC. Unfortunately it will be gone in a few years.okay. you win. america sucks. the grand canyon is a dirt hole. yosemite is just a dirt 'V' in the mountains. yellowstone is just a stinking sulfur pit. the Aspens of colorado just obscure the view of the factories. Muir woods is too dark and shady from the giant sequoias. the vast, rolling green hills of virginia are just more boring green. the fall colors of vermont are too bright and hurt the eyes. the painted desert of arizona - what's up with that?? the big sky country of montana - who needs all that stupid sky! the black hills of south dakota, more dirt. the great smoky mountains of north carolina - well hell, too much smoke! the white mountains of california, home to the oldest living thing on earth, the ancient bristlecone pine - try renting 'weekend with bernie' out there, good luck! then of course there are all those manmade monstrosities - the golden gate bridge, obscuring the view of the ocean. the statue of liberty, just a hollow statue with no meaning any more. mount rushmore - talk about a paean to blind patriotism! the space needle of seattle - how dumb is that? the world trade center - it's nice the view is no longer obscured by that home to little Eichmans. the st. louis arch - just another example of man's ego.



no, there's nothing beautiful in america.



As for the drug companies ect I think the whole thing is sad. I know that I am not going to give my hard earned money to anyone to extend my death. I'm just going to have my carcass frozen. good. i hope you stick to your convictions. so, if you should get skin cancer, you won't get it treated, because of course, you'd be spending your hard earned money just extending your death. the cancer is natural, so if it spreads and kills you, that would be the natural death you want. cool.









It's a matter of finding out where. That takes time. Don't worry either, I make a very good roasted and stuffed soul chicken. For my guests. :Dagain, do give us a post here once you've had your US citizenship revoked.

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote: Absolutely nothing. Isn't worth the effort.



As I stated before. okay. fair enough. so you were lying when you stated "I am motivated to find and fix problems and tend to disdain non solution oriented ways of thinking.". i'm pleased you're willing to acknowledge you're full of it.







Read it again and think about what I said. I really do believe that Americans are getting stupider.mmm. you've shown poor rhetorical skills thus far, a weak ability to maintain a clear rebuttal past two iterations of challenges, and leaps into 'phun phantasy' describing the 'reality' that you're only free when you're dead (Modern Philosophy Found In Marvel Comics, Advanced Placement).



yes, i agree. americans are getting stupider. you're an american, certainly.



Look at yourself, most of what you own is depreciating in value. It will never be worth what you originally paid for it LET ALONE MORE. The reason you're up to your eyeballs in debt is because you allowed other things than than critical thought and commonsense to influence you. You may have had a 6 figure income in the past but that is something that you more than likely never see again. hey, thanks so much for your impressions about my life! i'm really glad you have me all figured out. yep, it's amazing what a clueless git on the internet can delude himself into believing with ZERO direct knowledge. thanks ever so much for telling me why i'm in debt, even though it bears ZERO relationship to reality.



you are one seriously pompous, self-inflated, self-possessed homonculus.







I'll be back later, don't stand around with anything stinky in your mouth waiting for me either.see, you should reread my last sentence above, take some lessons in how to write some *real* ad hominem. the above is pathetically lame. let me guess, you're seventeen years old, right? yes, let's see, two can play the 'oracle' game!: you're a bitter young person, you've made up all this crud about drinking beer in front of the kremlin, you've never held a legitimate job in your life - you earn your income selling crack and crystal meth, you live in a cardboard box outside starbucks, and get your morning coffee by pouring all the nearly empty cups that are in their garbage into one single cup and warming it in the glow of your ego, you once won the lottery but blew it all on porn and cigarettes, and your girlfriend left you for a circus midget.





wow, you're right! it really is easy to make up a fictional story, apply it to someone you're incapable of holding your rhetorical ground with, and pretend you then have the higher ground! good show!

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote: No maroon, I wasn't lying. Leaving this country to the likes of simpletons such as yourself is a solution. Fixing societies problems is not worth my time and effort so instead of becoming embroiled and bound up in them I look for greener pastures. Time lost is never found again. I hate being a lonely voice in a fugue.
i'm sure you do. of course, when you make up your own rules of logic as you go along, that tends to happen. 'motivated to find and fix problems' and

'instead of i look for greener pastures' are self-cancelling.



good show.





Your[sic] quite a master at twisting words around, your rhetoric is quite impressive and I am begining to think you have a few more issues than Time magazine. Talk about obcessive[sic] behavior patterns. This isn't the only thread that you make such a pattern apparent.
whew. well, you're *beginning* to redeem yourself, that's considerably more sophisticated than 'don't stand around with anything stinky in your mouth' as a riposte.







The correct spelling of "homonculus" is h-o-m-u-n-c-u-l-u-s.



Homunculus. Got it?


drat. then you turn around and ruin the moment with a spelling flame, probably the cheapest of cheap flames. ah well.



yes, i spelled homunculus wrong, amazing but true!





Go ahead and call me names, I have been called names in a hundred different languages, I was even shot at more than once.
selling crack for a living is a dangerous business, no doubt.





No I am not one to be good at verbal confrontations in this format, I can't see your face your expressions or anything else. I am not paid what I am to sit and argue with people either. I am paid for results and I WILL get them. "The end of the project is when everything works just fine, all else is nonsense".



People come to me when they need results, not when they need to argue.


great!





It's amazing how deep of a hole clueless trailertrash can dig for themselves.



Just answer one question, don't skip it like you did my last one.



If you were making a 6 figure income why are you in debt?


i was laid off! geez. why is this such a huge revelation? i was earning a good income. had no debt. then i lost my job, and have been struggling ever since to get my own small startup off the ground. my biz partner and i have worked very hard, but it's a tough market. i've kept myself afloat thanks to my excellent credit. i burned through all my retirement savings. i'm not interested in declaring bankruptcy, i prefer to pay my debts, and in time, i will. if worse comes to worst, i'll just sell my home, and make back *double* the purchase price. (so all that nattering about how everything i own is depreciating was *almost* right, but that one thing that's appreciating way, way, WAY cancels out any of the depreciation.)





Do you understand the concept of compound interest?



Apparently not. If you did you wouldn't be in debt.
okay. so you have no debt. certainly, you don't own your own house. what, don't tell me you choose to rent because you refuse to go into debt to buy a house? that's probably the stupidest financial move anyone can make. hey, i did it for ten years too long myself. if i'd bought my house ten years before i did, it would have appreciate *ten times* in value since then. sigh.







Why do Americans allow a minority of people (POLITICIANS) to have such power over us?



Because we're sheep? Greedy, easily distracted/manipulated sheep?



I think I am close to the bullseye on this one.
let me guess: you don't vote, because it's not worth your time, right? that's your definition of being 'solution oriented', isn't it? if the going gets tough, you get going (to another country) right?



and do tell, which country are you going to move to that doesn't have a government, or has such a benign government that it won't 'bother' you? i suppose qatar might be a great place to move. no taxes. in fact, everyone gets a fat check from the government from the oil revenues. of course, you'd have to have been born there, i believe, to get that benefit. and not mind living on the arab peninsula, which might not be so bad, except for the fear of being kidnapped by islamic jihadists. oh well. no place is perfect.







Did I ask you for your opinion? No, I don't believe I did.
sigh. back to the tenth grade level ripostes. oh well. you got going good there for a brief bit, but i do believe each person sinks or rises to their natural level. i hope your junior year is better.





I don't need an oracle to put 2 and 2 together and see that your a freaking loser who's biggest thrill is arguing with me on the internet.
"HA HA HA! YOU WROTE 'YOUR' INSTEAD OF 'YOU'RE'! HA HA HA! YOU'RE SO DUMB! I WILL NOW FLAME YOU FOR A SPELLING ERROR. HA HA HA! TEACHER SAYS I NEED TO STAY AFTER SCHOOL, SO I WON'T BE BACK UNTIL LATER. HA HA HA! C U L8R! HA HA HA!"









Excuse me. I have to cook dinner or this will be my biggest thrill of the day.


well, i do believe we've both exhausted the topic utterly and totally, and we're both at the level of doing little more than attempting to trash each other on a personal level. i definitely accept my culpability in that, it's a two way street. so, i guess it's c'est la vie, and same as it ever was. perhaps someone new would like to chime in with what would cause them to leave the U.S..



or not.

[anastrophe]

i'm with ya. this has become pointless. some might argue it became pointless some time ago (buttercup! oh buttercup! :yh_bigsmi )



so, on to bigger and better things. peace.

[gmc]

posted by scrat

No I am not one to be good at verbal confrontations in this format, I can't see your face your expressions or anything else. I am not paid what I am to sit and argue with people either. I am paid for results and I WILL get them. "The end of the project is when everything works just fine, all else is nonsense".




Hate to tell you this but you are not having a verbal confrontation i.e. spoken word, you're having a written one.

Don't stop this is fun.

Scrat I am curious, the socialist beliefs you you adhere to have you acrually read Marx, lenin etc? I know several well thought out socialists who know their stuff, they are streaks ahead of their political contemporaries I have also met many to whom it is almost a religon-cannot be questioned. Like many religious people they lack the capacity to make up their own mind preferring to be told what to think and believe. Not having a go at you just curious.

Also there are many in the UK who want to live abroad citing many of the same reasons you do, often they are quite wealthy, they basically drop out and have enough money to set themselves up in a poorer country where relatively speaking they are quite well off. Others are more up front in that they move to australia, new zealand for economic reasons, I gave serious thought to it myself when I was unemployed for the better part of two years catch 22 no money couldn't afford to emigrate, no job no job experience to get in with. :-1 Course living in a country where social democracy has been the norm (used to be but that is another forum) I was hardly destitute, got a good education, didn't and don't have to worry about becoming ill and now pay back lots in taxes and hopefully will continue to do so.

Of the former at the back of it is they want to go elsewhere so they can be better off, buy up the land and build a business, sissistence living is actually no fun at all.

Like your friend-seriously how does he get the fish? catch it himself is he part of a fishing co-operative or is he exploiting the labour of some poor fisherman?

Personally i don't think america is that great a place-never been there will visit some day but would not like to live there. The blind paranoid patriotism sometimes seen in this forum is irritating, I think america has some serious problems in front of it just like every other country has at some point. I look at some of the things you put up with in the US, particularly health care which is free at the point of need in this country and wonder why americans put up with that kind of crap. But then you all choose to.

Why then do you not stay and work for a better society rather than cop out and lord it elsewhere? I don't imagine you see yourself working as a **** shoveller in some third world country.

[Raven]

Hate to break the mood of a good argument, but I feel the need to impose my answer to a very worthwhile question.

I left my native soil for love, gentlemen. I'm a prime example of 'you can take the girl out of america, but you cant take america out of the girl.'

I'm currently residing in England. Birthplace of my birthplace. :yh_bigsmi

My soulmate wasnt found in america.......he's here. The world is a large and wonderous place. It has many places to explore. I dont think anybody really leaves america. They carry it with them, wherever they go. I've seen america from coast to coast. (lived on both, but sprung from the middle.) I love my country. I will always love my country. I come from one of the most beautiful places on earth. I'm a native american. There is no escaping that one, mate! :wah: Pocahontas is here too.

I'm asked the question 'do I miss it?' all of the time. My answer to that is, no.

Britain is just a miniture state to tell the truth. Culture is the same, people are the same, language is the same. I live where america was born. They dont even consider me to be foreign! Just another one from the colonies...

England has the third largest population of americans living outside of america following Canada and Mexico.

I dont think the majority of us left because we were abandoning our roots. I know I didnt. I left because I love my husband. It was easier for me to come here, than for him to go there. That and the fact that I love to explore.

[Jives]

Scrat wrote: As for the blind patriots, well, they are the sheep. I don't know what to do about that. Let Boy George start more wars to thin the ranks?.


Interestingly, I voluteered to give my life for the right for you to say that about the country I love. I'm not "blindly" patriotic. I understand the problems that America has, probably better than you do since I'm older, have been to more places on the planet, and have served in the government and the armed forces. Yours is the ignorance of the young and unimformed.

America is still the best thing going, it has been for quite a while now and I'm proud to say that I have defended it.

You...who have never served your country...who enjoys all the rights and privileges that those of us who have...who takes those same rights for granted.. you go on and bash America all you like. Go ahead...say how much you hate the land that you were born in, talk about how you hate the people that are your cohort, bash the good that America has done in the world and belittle the people who believe in what she has accomplished, and while you're at it, belittle the astounding advances that America has made....

Meanwhile, I'll still defend your right to say all that. And that, in itself, makes America great...doesn't it!

[Jives]

Aha! there you are, Scrat!

Well, well, well....my mistake and my apologies! Kudos to you and my respect for you has just increased by leaps and bounds.

But now I'm very confused.... you believe in America, yet you bash her. You defended your country, yet you disagree with her policies. You and I are soldiers, "ours not to make reply, ours not to question why, ours but to do and die." That is and was our job. Defend America and her ideals, leave the politics to the politicians (who we have both elected, remember?)

What is it that changed your mind about your country? You obviously believed in it enough to voluteer your life at one time, if America was great enough for you to do that then, why do you seem to have such a problem with her now?

[Jives]

Hey, no hurry buddy. I'll be here, this is just beginning to get interesting. Since you are ex-military, I'm very interested to hear your views now. Before I just dismissed you as some disgruntled America-hater that had been programmed by another America-hater.

Since you have served, you are obviously much more than that.

[anastrophe]

gmc wrote:

Hate to tell you this but you are not having a verbal confrontation i.e. spoken word, you're having a written one.


forums blur that definition. people carry on dialogue and discussion, in written form, but with a particularly 'verbal' quality. twenty five years ago, there was no question of what was a verbal vs written confrontation/discussion. things are different now.

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote:

Most mining companies are not American and we actually PAY most of them to mine our resources and take the proceeds abroad.
do you have a citation for that? i've never heard it, and i find it highly unlikely. the single largest mining industry in the US is for coal, and that is mined almost entirely for consumption within the US, mostly by power plants.

[anastrophe]

Scrat wrote: Where else can you live and go out to your vehicle in the morning to find bullet holes and golfballs screwing up the paint job?
anecdote, or actually happened to you/your car?

[anastrophe]

i'm curious raven, have you given up your US citizenship? to me, that's the true test. the person who leaves america, *and* revokes their citizenship, is the person who is _not_ talking out of both sides of their mouth.

[BTS]

Scrat wrote: Where? It's a big world out there. I have a friend that lives in the Phillipines on the South China sea. He sits on his deck all day drinking Mai Tai's and selling fish.

Scrat wrote:



He is a wholesaler. He travels a lot between China, Japan and the US. Somebody in Hong Kong needs 80 tons of Cooke River Salmon so they call him. He hops a flight from Manila to Jeneau Alaska and buys 80 tons of high qualtiy fish and gets it on its way to Hong Kong. He makes 3% off the deal. Who does he exploit? I don't have a clue. He logs a lot of airmiles though.





So does he sit on his porch drinking Mai Tai's and selling fish as you said before?

Or is he logging many air miles as you admit later?

Sounds like he is not sitting on his porch selling fish at all.........

[BTS]

Scrat wrote:



I worked for Ingersol Rand, Mobile and I now work for Siemans as a project manager/technical representative. Gee I work for Siemens not Siemans??

And I am just one of the Dumb Americans you refered to earlier..........But this Dummy can spell the company name he works for..........

[abbey]

Scrat wrote: Jives. I was never a soldier. The only beaches I ever stormed were in places like Palma Majorca and Benidorm Spain.

I dug a lot of trenches though, it's hard work shagging all those hot northern european chicks down for the summer break in the Med. We didn't call the ship I was on the Haze Grey QE II for nothing. I joined the service because I was a dumb kid that wanted to see the world which I have done in spades.

Granted the Navy paid for my eduation but I consider it even, I fulfilled my obligations to it.



People like George Bush, born with a golden spoon in their arse and no clue whatsoever how real people live. All politicians seem to be this way.

Need I go on?
I have to say, i have really enjoyed the banter in this thread, but Scrat you have lost all credibility.

Give up your citizenship, but please don't come to Britain, we have enough scumbags as it is!

[abbey]

abbey wrote: I have to say, i have really enjoyed the banter in this thread, but Scrat you have lost all credibility.

Give up your citizenship, but please don't come to Britain, we have enough scumbags as it is!
I want to apologise to you Scrat for calling you a scumbag, that was uncalled for.