What Would Cause You To Leave?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:48 pm

What would cause you to leave the U.S. There has been a 10 fold increase in applications for residency in New Zealand by American citizens. I know Canada has had increased applications as well. These folks are apparently upset with U.S. policies and the current administration. This is the information that I get from an ex-pat group that I also participate in. It's my personal belief that it's a case of thinking the grass is greener in another pasture. The expectations of these folks is naive at best. What a mistake.

So-----------What would cause you to pull up and leave the U.S.?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:56 pm

nothing would get me to leave.

but i wholeheartedly encourage anyone to leave who is so jaded by the extraordinary freedoms available here that they think it'll be better elsewhere.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:42 pm

anastrophe :yh_clap :yh_clap My sentiments exactly..

I must say that New Zealand is truly a beauitful place, but the good ol USA is home for me..

nothing would get me to leave.

but i wholeheartedly encourage anyone to leave who is so jaded by the extraordinary freedoms available here that they think it'll be better elsewhere.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:29 am

I enjoy living in New Zealand for part of the year but would never wish to live here permanently, nor would I have ever wanted to make my living or raise my family here, for many many reasons to numerous to mention in this post.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:09 am

Just making sure that I get notified of messages on this thread.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:38 am

i love my country, but i am leaving for the sake of love, my soulmate is an Englishman, and i am going to move to England to be with him. i am a patriot,:yh_flag and a police officer, i was raised to love America. my Dad was in the US government and i grew up in Washington DC, i am still overcome with emotion at Washington scenes, and always will be. but for every time there is a season. :yh_flower

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:28 am

perhaps its the koran (tsunami in 2007) they fear coming?

Philadelphia Eagle · Post by **Philadelphia Eagle** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:50 am

As one who has had the opportunity of living in different countries throughout the world I can say categorically that nothing I have experienced overseas would encourage me to leave the USA permanently. Those who choose to leave without good reason will almost certainly find that they have made a poor decision. An exception would be Lady Cop and for very good reason. You'll enjoy England LC - nice people, scenery, history etc. Just hope you can tolerate the truly awful climate.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:12 am

I've been to most of the other countries on the planet while I was in the Air Force, some were nice, others beautiful. A few had wonderful people....but it was always America where everything was going on!

If I moved, I'd always feel like I was missing out on something!

TMC · Post by **TMC** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:12 am

Just making sure Suresh gets another message. :yh_wave

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:37 pm

I would leave the U.S. only after the Revolution. Party members would need to organize the same Great Leap Forward in other countries. Oh, and if Baptist ministers become federal court judges I would get the Hell out!!!!!

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:10 am

Being convicted of a crime. I am a law abiding citizen...but if I was ever wrongly accused of a serious crime...before I did the jail time I would be off to Mexico.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:11 am

canaan wrote: Can't think of anything that would make me leave...although..Hillary Clinton being elected as President would sure make me ponder on it. :p

Actually, I did give it some thought after the last election.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:55 am

The only way I'd leave is if Hillary or Condoleeza get voted into office. :yh_rotfl

Seriously, I'd never leave America. I'd live in a different state, somewhere warm all year, but leave the U.S.? NEVER!!!! :yh_flag

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:21 am

Doctor Who wrote: :sneaky: Maybe, but have you seen the statistics for the levels of violent crime, particularly shootings, in the U.S? It's bloody awful. Nearly as bad as Columbia, which is a mad house, mainly due to past U.S policies. feel free to exaggerate to a laughable extreme to advance your agenda.

Homicide rates per 100,000:

Columbia: Total:64.6 Gun:50.60

US......: Total: 5.7 Gun: 3.72

most recent stats used for Columbia, 1996, for US, 1999.

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:25 am

Lon wrote: What would cause you to leave the U.S. There has been a 10 fold increase in applications for residency in New Zealand by American citizens. I know Canada has had increased applications as well. These folks are apparently upset with U.S. policies and the current administration. This is the information that I get from an ex-pat group that I also participate in. It's my personal belief that it's a case of thinking the grass is greener in another pasture. The expectations of these folks is naive at best. What a mistake.

So-----------What would cause you to pull up and leave the U.S.?

Nothing.

For those that want to, I hope they do.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:03 am

Doctor Who wrote: If your'e gonna preach the good life to others (In Iraq, Afganistan etc) you need to practice it at home, and on your own doorstep first,

America is the good life! Great TV, movies, music, fashion, technology, freedom, just a wonderful place all around....no wonder people are coming here in the millions!

Maybe people are wising up to the fact that the U.S is not the world,

Yeah, like how good Chinese movies are compared to Hollywood Blockbusters. LOL! or maybe the amazing space program of Uganda. Ark-Ark-Ark.:wah:

and that there are other ideas, lifestyles etc, to be had elsewhere. The times they are a changin' my friend.

America and her allies dominate the planet, the rest is second rate.

After all, the entire 20th century belongs to America. Politically and technologically!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:57 am

Doctor Who wrote: America does not dominate the planet;

Hmmm...We are the sole remaining military hyperpower, we are an economic juggernaut, we export our culture to every corner of the globe.... in what way do we NOT dominate the planet? I'll bet you are wearing a pair of Levi's jeans right now!! and you are probably typing this on a computer running an IBM processor, then posting it on an internet designed by the US military! LOL!

genuine contributions to global happiness/culture.

You mean like our billions in aid to the victims of the Tsunami? Or the astounding advances in medicine we have made such as the AIDS vaccine? Or maybe you are referring to the plethora of technological advances given to the world by our space program? We always give to the world....now.... guess how many countries sent us help in the San Francisco earthquake.

Remember "send me your poor, your huddled masses" ? Come on guys!! Think about it!!

You'd better believe it....all of those who want to come here LEGALLY and become Americans! That's what this thread is about.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:36 pm

Jives wrote:

....now.... guess how many countries sent us help in the San Francisco earthquake.

That would be a big fat goose egg, yes?

I'll never understand this topic. It came up before, and caused some heated argument then, too. So why is it, that when Americans voice our pride in our country, we are seen as horn-tooting, back-patting egomaniacs? Nobody said "America is the end-all be-all of human existence." There's things wrong, and there's LOTS right about this country. We experience freedoms unheard of in other parts of the world. It is a great place to be and I consider myself lucky to have been born here. I'm proud to be an American just like anyone from any other country should be proud of theirs. I refuse to apologize for it. :yh_flag :yh_flag

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:46 pm

My grandmother said often about people:

"How can they expect to be a part of the solution if they walk away?"

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:01 pm

BabyRider wrote: . I'm proud to be an American. I refuse to apologize for it. :yh_flag :yh_flag

GO BR! GO BR! IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY! YOU'RE HAPPY! (jives does the happy dance)

That was...righteous!

(Jives wipes a tear from the corner of his eye.)

I could go into the extremely long list of American accomplishments, but let's just use one, OK? name the only country to ever have on of it's citizens walk on the Moon.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:04 pm

All we need now are the lyrics to Lee Greenwood's "Proud to be an American" !!! :yh_dance :yh_flag

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:22 pm

Doctor Who wrote: To be honest guys, this just demonstrates more blinkered narrow mindedness.
speaking of blinkered narrowmindedness, any plans to retract your ridiculous claim that our homicide/violent crime rate is comparable to columbia's?

no hurry of course. :yh_bigsmi

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:41 pm

Scrat wrote: Well Anastrophe from you point of view in Sonoma County Cali, I do believe you live in a bubble. I dare you to spend one night on the streets of Seattle. It's a real rathole. About the worst I have ever seen in all my travels and that includes too many places to list here.

I do know one thing, I can walk through the Berlin municiple garden/park or Esraminova park in Moscow in the middle of the night without any risk whatsoever, but if I were to try to do that in Discovery park in Seattle I may well end up dead.

I can stand in front of the Kremlin gate or Lenins Mausoleum and drink beer in Red Square. If I were to do that at the White House I would be tazered and beaten senseless. Their is just too many crazy people here in America.

People who think America is the be all to end all have never been anywhere else for any length of time. I kind of think blind patriotism stems from ignorance.
okey dokey. and where do you live?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:24 pm

Scrat wrote: I live on Meridian St in Wallingford. $1500 apts and $500,000 '30s style houses. Complete with bodies under the windows in the morning.

Only the bigwig Columbian drug dealers can afford to live here.

And the 13 convicted childmolesters on the Wa state dole.

What am I doing here? Housesitting, I live further south regularly in a place no better.
okay. so when are you moving to germany or russia?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:28 pm

Scrat wrote: Well Anastrophe from you point of view in Sonoma County Cali, I do believe you live in a bubble. I dare you to spend one night on the streets of Seattle. It's a real rathole. About the worst I have ever seen in all my travels and that includes too many places to list here.
i usually hope that some things don't have to be spelled out, but apparently that doesn't always hold true.

pointing out that violence and homicide rates in the united states are a tiny fraction of what they are in columbia, contrary to another poster's jaw-droppingly wild exaggerations, does NOT mean that one can reasonably infer that i am saying there is NO violence or homicide problem here.

sigh.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:27 pm

Scrat wrote: I was thinking earlier that the enviornment I live in now probably influences my attitude. This is not a pretty place and all fairness there are beautiful places in America. Central Pennsylvania, parts of New York, Wyoming and a few others.

What one forgets is that there are other places than America which may not have the material things we have such as 8 lane hiways but has much better things to offer. Germany is too over populated, Russia is in a state of change although it would be my first choice, Chilae is a close second.
so when are you moving?

The object of America is to come here (or be born) work your whole life and amass wealth then retire someplace that you can enjoy living.
for some.

Пойдите управляемые и схватите себя.
sorry, i don't speak or read russian. what does your comment mean in english, please.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:04 am

Scrat wrote: It means take a run and jump at yourself. okay.

If you want to be rude and condescending take it to heart. I feel my criticisms of this country are constructive and well founded, I feel that American people have become very sheeplike in ways. All most need to be happy is a boobtube and an over priced toy sitting in a garage attached to an over priced crackerbox.
okay. other people suck. so what? other people suck everywhere. there's just as many assbites in moscow, russia as moscow, idaho. so what?

Pathetic.

indeed.

America may be a perfect country to you, but it is not to others because of what we have become.
i guess i have to spell it out again for you.

I H-A-V-E N-O-T S-U-G-G-E-S-T-E-D T-H-A-T A-M-E-R-I-C-A I-S

P-E-R-F-E-C-T.

you are inferring that, erroneously, from what i've written.

you said you can do XYZ in berlin or moscow, but not here. Do you feel those countries are better than the United States? If so, and I've asked thrice now, when are you planning on moving? Or is the United States 'okay enough' in the final analysis?

Hell the state I live in is almost as bad as the old Soviet Union.

Goodnight.
so when are you moving to a better country? seriously? if this country - where you live - is almost as bad as the old USSR, then surely you want to go someplace better. what country is better, and when are you planning on going?

i hear far too many people **** and moan about mean old united states. from people doing their pissing and moaning from a sweet broadband connection, with a roof over their head, fresh oranges and strawberries and bell peppers down at local safeway year round, a hospital fifteen clicks down the road, a fresh espresso at the starbucks every morning, listening to their favorite music on their ipod.

materialistic? yeah. so what?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:05 am

Scrat wrote:

The object of America is to come here (or be born) work your whole life and amass wealth then retire someplace that you can enjoy living. .

That may be your idea of living in America, but it certainly isn't mine. I educated myself. I earned three bachelor's degrees by working at night and on weekends, then I went out and tried occupations that would give a sense of purpose in my life. I flew fighter planes, I was a chef, I played in a rock band, and now I'm a teacher.

Every day I get up and enjoy the wonderful fulfillment of my job. I'm making a difference in people's lives everyday. I'm not waiting to enjoy life when I retire, I'm enjoying every minute of it right now!

No where in that equation do you see the unit "amass wealth". I don't teach that to the children either. I teach them to enjoy life....for life itself! In the words of "George Grey" unfurl the sails of life and ride the winds of destiny."

Your view of life seems very shallow and sterile to me. I feel sorry for you.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:36 am

Scrat wrote: When I am planning on going is none of your business.fair enough. so you *are* planning on skeedaddling? the US isn't good enough for you, so you are committed to moving elsewhere to a better country?

oh, right, none of my business. rather brings up the question of why you bothered posting in this topic in the first place, if suddenly what's under discussion isn't anyone's business!

You need to read the posts a little closer, I said Wa state was almost as bad as the USSR.tit for tat. please reread *my* post. i paraphrased you thus: "this country - where you live - is almost as bad as the old USSR,". what part of 'where you live' differs from "Wa state" (presuming by "Wa state" you mean Washington state).

Where? It's a big world out there. I have a friend that lives in the Phillipines on the South China sea. He sits on his deck all day drinking Mai Tai's and selling fish.cool.

Be back later, I have to work to pay my taxes. Funny, I have to work till almost June to pay my taxes. :-5 :-5 I don't have a choice either.well, you'll want to rule out any socialist nations out there. you'll be working until november 15th to pay your taxes.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:39 am

posted by scrat

Where? It's a big world out there. I have a friend that lives in the Phillipines on the South China sea. He sits on his deck all day drinking Mai Tai's and selling fish.

(sorry can't resist)

So where does he get the fish? Does he exploit some poor fisherman and make vast profits selling on the results of their labours or is he a member of a cooperative? Sounds like some rich drop out.

Why would you want to leave america? Personally I couldn't stand ex us citizens complaining about our welfare state and not being able to carry guns around to protect themselves from being oppressed. Then there is the BBC-no adverts- would they have the attention span to cope? :sneaky:

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:53 am

gmc wrote: posted by scrat

(sorry can't resist)

So where does he get the fish? Does he exploit some poor fisherman and make vast profits selling on the results of their labours or is he a member of a cooperative? Sounds like some rich drop out.

Why would you want to leave america? Personally I couldn't stand ex us citizens complaining about our welfare state and not being able to carry guns around to protect themselves from being oppressed. Then there is the BBC-no adverts- would they have the attention span to cope? :sneaky:
oh you rotter! well, i couldn't stand any british expats here in the states, always marveling at how they can make an appointment with the doctor and not have to wait six months to see him, or being amazed at the fabulous weather and lack of dreary fog (note, only applies to california [other than san francisco, see 'fog'], arizona, new mexico, colorado, florida, texas, hawaii, georgia, and parts of south carolina), pissing and moaning about the barbaric lack of 4 o'clock tea, and wondering why, when watching C-SPAN, they never hear the members of congress jointly exclaiming "'eeerrrrre" when someone says something they agree with.

okay, you got me, brits are so lacking in objectionable traits the above is lame!

David813 · Post by **David813** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:40 pm

anastrophe wrote: speaking of blinkered narrowmindedness, any plans to retract your ridiculous claim that our homicide/violent crime rate is comparable to columbia's?

no hurry of course. :yh_bigsmi
COLOMBIA is misspelled.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:50 pm

Scrat wrote: Sorry guys, no time to play tonight. I will proceed to rip you to pieces later. :rolleyes:

we await your return with bated breath.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:20 am

Scrat wrote: Didn't your mother tell you not to put nasty things in your mouth?

If we're going to start quoting one another lets be accurate.indeed, lets. or are you simply saying 'do as i say, not as i do?' because while tossing out assumptions and saying we should quote accurately, you're not quoting. which just muddies things further. to wit:

When have I ever stated leaving America was my sole aim?non-sequitur. nobody is claiming that you've stated that 'leaving america is [your] sole aim'. what i'm trying to get to the bottom of *IS* what your aim is. you've been evasive and non-committal. hey, that's your right baby, but it's also my right to challenge you on it.

now, try to follow along. here's some *actual real live quotes for you!*

Scrat wrote:

When I am planning on going is none of your business.

I wrote:

fair enough. so you *are* planning on skeedaddling? the US isn't good enough for you, so you are committed to moving elsewhere to a better country?

Now, try to follow along. the statement "When I am planning on going is none of your business" (emphasis mine), very definitely implies that you DO plan on leaving. think about it. would the following exchange make sense?

"when i go to the store, i think i'll buy an avocado"

"cool, can you pick up some chips too, we'll make some guacamole"

"when have i ever said that going to the store was my sole aim?"

"uh, okay, don't get your panties in a bunch, it sure sounded like you were planning on going to the store"

"don't be ridiculous. i was merely idly speculating about the nature of going to the store"

whee. we can play that game all year long.

If what I type here offends your patriotism you know how that goes. Your theme of "If you don't like it leave" is old and tired and on top of that it is UNAMERICAN. you're assuming that you're offending my patriotism. what i'm trying to find out is what your committment is - is it just to whine and carry on about mean old america, or do you truly believe there are countries that are better than the united states; and if so, if you really believe they are better, are you planning on leaving this corrupt, stupid, materialistic country, or are you just another of the endless parade of whiners i come across regularly, who will cry about bad old america until blue in the face, and about how great it is to be able to drink beer in front of the kremlin, but in terms of actually moving to another country (rather than the irrelevant joys of VISITING other countries), they have no intent whatsoever. which, in my opinion, makes the suggestion that those other countries are 'better' quite hollow.

your serve.

You know as well as I do that America has significant problems in all areas that can be easily solved but will never be. Stupidity is rife and ubiquitous amongst our leaders yet WE do nothing about it. uh, well, uh DUH. so what? *every* country has problems. are the problems here bad enough to spur you to leave? contrarily, if they aren't bad enough to spur you to leave, does that mean that, all other things being equal, and in consideration of those implicit problems, it really ain't so bad here?

There are a few nice places here in America still, but on the other hand there is a whole world out there filled with nice places. It's all a matter of choosing where you want to be. I do know one thing for certain, I will not be in Wa state much longer and I will not live in Cali, both states suffer from IPMS (incompetent political management syndrom) and I find such things intolerable.okay. so, from this, it suggests that, while drinking beer in front of the kremlin is your sine qua non for a better country, it's really not that big a deal (i agree!), thus what you're really talking about is not 'leaving the United States' (the premise of this thread), but 'leaving washington state for some other state that's better'.

of course, you've just stated that you find washington's "IPMS" intolerable, which makes one wonder how much longer you will tolerate the intolerable? what state would be better? arizona? idaho? maine? minnesota? mississippi?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:42 pm

Scrat wrote:

You know as well as I do that America has significant problems in all areas that can be easily solved but will never be. Stupidity is rife and ubiquitous amongst our leaders yet WE do nothing about it. .

Here's an idea for you Scrat....why don't you become a political leader? That way you can solve the problems you say would be so easy to solve.

And please don't include me in your "WE". I'm doing what I can to help. I went back to school, got another degree and now I educate our children, so that they will grow up and make informed choices when they vote, thereby helping our country.