gmc;1283224 wrote: Which book was that?
posted by oscar
He's perhaps come to the same conclusion as me that it is a waste of time trying to engage you in discourse. You don't read anybody else's posts and dodge every question pit to you. Your having a laugh !!!
You have failed to answer every single question put to you throughout this thread. I suspect the reason for that Is because you do not know one single member of the BNP or done enough research about ALL their policies but hey, your the expert becuase you've spoken to a Police Officer and a reporter. It Is exactly people like you that send out the Irrational, Unfounded claims of the BNP. You know absolutely Jack about them but think you can speak on their behalf. Unless you have spoken to every single member or attended any of their meetings, Instead of raiding Wiki for quotes from old members over 20 years ago, you are In no position to comment on them.
I have repeatedly asked you to tell us what BNP policies are and you can't. I have repeatedly asked you to tell us of those Policies and why they are lies backed up with a sensible anaylisis for your allegations but you can not. You can't because the truth Is, you do not know what you are talking about. You have stated throughout this thread that BNP Policies are lies. You made the statement so, prove they are lies. Or at least be man enough to admit that your knowledge of the BNP is confined to the pages of the News Of the World.
Your correct In that continuing this thread is pointless as you make claims with nothing to substantiate them. Twenty year old quotes from Wiki is not substancial evidence and Indeed If it were, It would reflect a very small % of people in the BNP or why they join. For example, the BNP has more animal rights policies than any other party. Many people go with them for that alone. However, people who are limited to the confines of the tabloid gutter press like to believe that anyone showing a passing Interest in the BNP has to be a Neo-Nazi, Skinhead, Fascist, Rascist because that Is the tiny little world that they want to live In.
I notice you couldn't even answer my post regarding what an Idiot Clegg is for wanting a Government where It is dictated where Immigrants live. I can just Imagine if that was a headline in the press If the BNP suggested It. That Is what Is so hypocritical about you and anyone else who comes on strutting like peacocks over the BNP. You are so deluded that you actually think Clegg's proposal is a good Idea. Well, first of all, It breaches the Immigrants Human Rights to be dictated to where they can live.... And YOU support a Party that Is willing to strip Immigrants of their Human Rights. Who is the rascist here then Clod, because from where I sit, If you support that Proposal, YOU are the rascist treating Immigrants as second rate dictating to them where they live.
Besides which, I can Imagine now:
Mr Ali arrives to join his family in Birmingham and work In the family Business thus creating tax for the country. Sorry Mr Ali but under Nick Clegg's Government, we think Birmingham Is a little crowded and we'd like you to go and live in 'Frimptom-On-Sea'. Now, as you will have no family there to liver with, you will have to apply for free council housing but don't worry because we will have to put you In a hotel until a house becomes available. Also, as there are no jobs in 'Frimpton-On-Sea', you will have to sign on and claim Benifit. Welcome to the Lib Dem Government. :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Have people given up on Governments?
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Oscar Namechange
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Have people given up on Governments?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Have people given up on Governments?
gmc;1283239 wrote: Ah an obscure american text book:D
But of course! Skewed and written from a purely American viewpoint by the winners of WWII!:wah:
do you cover things like the industrial military complex?
Ummm... beats me, I was only substituting for that night. I usually teach Math and English. But, I'd guess "no," since that does not exist in America. (As far as I was taught!):-3
But of course! Skewed and written from a purely American viewpoint by the winners of WWII!:wah:
do you cover things like the industrial military complex?
Ummm... beats me, I was only substituting for that night. I usually teach Math and English. But, I'd guess "no," since that does not exist in America. (As far as I was taught!):-3
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Clodhopper
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Have people given up on Governments?
Was there any sense in that last post of oscar's, or was it just the complete gibberish it looked?
It's quite fun, not reading posts. Somehow rather Zen.:wah:
....oh, alright.
Unless you have spoken to every single member or attended any of their meetings, Instead of raiding Wiki for quotes from old members over 20 years ago, you are In no position to comment on them.
(my bold)
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Have you spoken to every single BNP member? No. So by your own analysis you aren't eligible to speak about them. Don't you think it's a bit dim to destroy the basis of your own argument in the making of it?:yh_rotfl
"raiding wiki"? You ARE a silly billy. You think I just read wiki? There's info all over the internet. And I didn't just use the internet. But don't let that stop you talking absolute rubbish.
Clegg did not talk of dictating, he talked of incentives.:rolleyes:
That'll do for now. I did enjoy you shooting down your own argument. That was special.
It's quite fun, not reading posts. Somehow rather Zen.:wah:
....oh, alright.
Unless you have spoken to every single member or attended any of their meetings, Instead of raiding Wiki for quotes from old members over 20 years ago, you are In no position to comment on them.
(my bold)
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Have you spoken to every single BNP member? No. So by your own analysis you aren't eligible to speak about them. Don't you think it's a bit dim to destroy the basis of your own argument in the making of it?:yh_rotfl
"raiding wiki"? You ARE a silly billy. You think I just read wiki? There's info all over the internet. And I didn't just use the internet. But don't let that stop you talking absolute rubbish.
Clegg did not talk of dictating, he talked of incentives.:rolleyes:
That'll do for now. I did enjoy you shooting down your own argument. That was special.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Saint_;1283268 wrote: But of course! Skewed and written from a purely American viewpoint by the winners of WWII!:wah:
Ummm... beats me, I was only substituting for that night. I usually teach Math and English. But, I'd guess "no," since that does not exist in America. (As far as I was taught!):-3
well both roosevelt and eisenhower thought it did and warned about it-found out roosevelt warned about it is as well quite recently. It's not just americans that re-write history we've been doing it for years.
Ummm... beats me, I was only substituting for that night. I usually teach Math and English. But, I'd guess "no," since that does not exist in America. (As far as I was taught!):-3
well both roosevelt and eisenhower thought it did and warned about it-found out roosevelt warned about it is as well quite recently. It's not just americans that re-write history we've been doing it for years.
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Oscar Namechange
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Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1283283 wrote: Was there any sense in that last post of oscar's, or was it just the complete gibberish it looked?
It's quite fun, not reading posts. Somehow rather Zen.:wah:
....oh, alright.
(my bold)
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Have you spoken to every single BNP member? No. So by your own analysis you aren't eligible to speak about them. Don't you think it's a bit dim to destroy the basis of your own argument in the making of it?:yh_rotfl
"raiding wiki"? You ARE a silly billy. You think I just read wiki? There's info all over the internet. And I didn't just use the internet. But don't let that stop you talking absolute rubbish.
Clegg did not talk of dictating, he talked of incentives.:rolleyes:
That'll do for now. I did enjoy you shooting down your own argument. That was special.
Shoot me down???? You having a Giraffe again? You couldn't organise a Pisse up in a brewery.
So your still avoiding the questions. Still avoiding answering, what are BNP Policies and what is your anaylisis as to why they are lies? You can't answer can you? You haven't got a clue. Why not be a man and just admit that you haven't got a clue what your talking about. Then you may at least save some face. It's very easy to call some-one else's post gibberish when It's you trying desperately to save face because you've been challenged. I'm not sure why you even post on these kinds of threads when you make accusations that you clearly can not support. Come on then Clod, let's see you anaylisis of these BNP lies. We won't though will we? because you don't even know what BNP policies are. I very much doubt that you even know your own Parties Policies.
So... Do enlighten us. How can Clegg's proposal to dictate to Immigrants where to live be an Incentive? Are you really that deluded and un-educated in immigration?
The Majority of Immigrants come here to find work. The work by nature Is in our largest towns and Cities. What possible benifit or Incentive could be there to live out in the sticks where it may be less crowded but where there is no housing and no work. What exactly is the Incentive? Would this be a cash Incentive? If so, then that's priceless. We are in the grip of a recession but good old Cleggy gives out more money for nothing. He has just revealed himself as the schoolboy playing at the Politics without a hope in hell of getting elected with such twaddle. And you wonder why people turn to the BNP. Griffin must be laughing his little socks off. Cleggy has probably handed him thousands of votes by coming out with that little gem :yh_rotfl
It's quite fun, not reading posts. Somehow rather Zen.:wah:
....oh, alright.
(my bold)
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Have you spoken to every single BNP member? No. So by your own analysis you aren't eligible to speak about them. Don't you think it's a bit dim to destroy the basis of your own argument in the making of it?:yh_rotfl
"raiding wiki"? You ARE a silly billy. You think I just read wiki? There's info all over the internet. And I didn't just use the internet. But don't let that stop you talking absolute rubbish.
Clegg did not talk of dictating, he talked of incentives.:rolleyes:
That'll do for now. I did enjoy you shooting down your own argument. That was special.
Shoot me down???? You having a Giraffe again? You couldn't organise a Pisse up in a brewery.
So your still avoiding the questions. Still avoiding answering, what are BNP Policies and what is your anaylisis as to why they are lies? You can't answer can you? You haven't got a clue. Why not be a man and just admit that you haven't got a clue what your talking about. Then you may at least save some face. It's very easy to call some-one else's post gibberish when It's you trying desperately to save face because you've been challenged. I'm not sure why you even post on these kinds of threads when you make accusations that you clearly can not support. Come on then Clod, let's see you anaylisis of these BNP lies. We won't though will we? because you don't even know what BNP policies are. I very much doubt that you even know your own Parties Policies.
So... Do enlighten us. How can Clegg's proposal to dictate to Immigrants where to live be an Incentive? Are you really that deluded and un-educated in immigration?
The Majority of Immigrants come here to find work. The work by nature Is in our largest towns and Cities. What possible benifit or Incentive could be there to live out in the sticks where it may be less crowded but where there is no housing and no work. What exactly is the Incentive? Would this be a cash Incentive? If so, then that's priceless. We are in the grip of a recession but good old Cleggy gives out more money for nothing. He has just revealed himself as the schoolboy playing at the Politics without a hope in hell of getting elected with such twaddle. And you wonder why people turn to the BNP. Griffin must be laughing his little socks off. Cleggy has probably handed him thousands of votes by coming out with that little gem :yh_rotfl
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Clodhopper
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Have people given up on Governments?
Try reading my post. I didn't shoot you down YOU did!:yh_rotfl
And you are not the first BNP member I've spoken to on the internet - not even in the last five years.
The last one was more honest than you. He was quite clear that immigrants were taking over our cities and natural white Britons were being discriminated against. He appeared to be on a recruitment drive, which is why, when you and pantoandy began spouting your tosh I wondered whether there was a deliberate BNP recruitment drive via the internet going on.
He was absolutely clear that getting rid of coloured immigrants was the main purpose of the BNP. It always has been, it is, and always will be. He was on the MSN messenger boards under the name of Bob Tail. He wasn't the only one, but I can't remember the other name. It was designed to be harmless and fluffy, though. Rather like "pantoandy". So I've been keeping an eye on the racist filth long before you got on your hind legs and started braying.
So you coming on here and saying they are all about animal rights and asking what their policies are is irrelevant. Does anyone (apart from the BNP) care what nazi policies were in the face of 50 or 60 million dead? They are all window dressing there to fool the gullible. Fascist parties in power have led to the murder of political opponents EVERYWHERE they have ever happened. The BNP is a fascist party led by fascists. Griffin is a Hitler lover.
And DO try to remember - insults from a BNP member are a compliment! Thank you!
(MY APOLOGIES TO ALL WHO HAVE SUFFERED THIS THREAD. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO LET FASCISM GO UNOPPOSED.)
And you are not the first BNP member I've spoken to on the internet - not even in the last five years.
The last one was more honest than you. He was quite clear that immigrants were taking over our cities and natural white Britons were being discriminated against. He appeared to be on a recruitment drive, which is why, when you and pantoandy began spouting your tosh I wondered whether there was a deliberate BNP recruitment drive via the internet going on.
He was absolutely clear that getting rid of coloured immigrants was the main purpose of the BNP. It always has been, it is, and always will be. He was on the MSN messenger boards under the name of Bob Tail. He wasn't the only one, but I can't remember the other name. It was designed to be harmless and fluffy, though. Rather like "pantoandy". So I've been keeping an eye on the racist filth long before you got on your hind legs and started braying.
So you coming on here and saying they are all about animal rights and asking what their policies are is irrelevant. Does anyone (apart from the BNP) care what nazi policies were in the face of 50 or 60 million dead? They are all window dressing there to fool the gullible. Fascist parties in power have led to the murder of political opponents EVERYWHERE they have ever happened. The BNP is a fascist party led by fascists. Griffin is a Hitler lover.
And DO try to remember - insults from a BNP member are a compliment! Thank you!
(MY APOLOGIES TO ALL WHO HAVE SUFFERED THIS THREAD. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO LET FASCISM GO UNOPPOSED.)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1283365 wrote: Try reading my post. I didn't shoot you down YOU did!:yh_rotfl
And you are not the first BNP member I've spoken to on the internet - not even in the last five years.
The last one was more honest than you. He was quite clear that immigrants were taking over our cities and natural white Britons were being discriminated against. He appeared to be on a recruitment drive, which is why, when you and pantoandy began spouting your tosh I wondered whether there was a deliberate BNP recruitment drive via the internet going on.
He was absolutely clear that getting rid of coloured immigrants was the main purpose of the BNP. It always has been, it is, and always will be. He was on the MSN messenger boards under the name of Bob Tail. He wasn't the only one, but I can't remember the other name. It was designed to be harmless and fluffy, though. Rather like "pantoandy". So I've been keeping an eye on the racist filth long before you got on your hind legs and started braying.
So you coming on here and saying they are all about animal rights and asking what their policies are is irrelevant. Does anyone (apart from the BNP) care what nazi policies were in the face of 50 or 60 million dead? They are all window dressing there to fool the gullible. Fascist parties in power have led to the murder of political opponents EVERYWHERE they have ever happened. The BNP is a fascist party led by fascists. Griffin is a Hitler lover.
And DO try to remember - insults from a BNP member are a compliment! Thank you!
(MY APOLOGIES TO ALL WHO HAVE SUFFERED THIS THREAD. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO LET FASCISM GO UNOPPOSED.)
The BNP has over a million votors. You have shared the boards with a few. That Is a little like my saying that all Lib Dems are Jesus loving beardys in sandals. In any Party, you will find the radical, it happens In all of them.
The Immigration Policy of the BNP is not to rid out shores of any-one not born here. That is a myth bandied about by the media for the gulliable such as you. The BNP does not want Indiginous British. I suggest you actually read the Immigration Policy of the BNP. It would be Impossible to ask for Indiginous British given that we are a mongrel nation. It's actually Indiginous European, so your research is wholly Inaccurate.
The BNP wants to end mass uncontrolled Immigration something your Party Is too wankerish to challenge publically. What's Clegg's solution? Keep the floodgates open and pay them extra to go and live somewhere nice and un-crowded. FFS
What the BNP do want, Is that anyone coming to live In our country, be able to financially supporty themselves and not be an Immediate burden on the NHS and our free housing and Benifit system. Any Immigrant breaking the law to be deported.
You can not even get the BNP Policy correct so how can I expect you to answer the questions put to you?
You can talk to yourself from now in your own un-educated deluded little world because If you can not even get the facts right, my energy is being wasted on you no further.
And you are not the first BNP member I've spoken to on the internet - not even in the last five years.
The last one was more honest than you. He was quite clear that immigrants were taking over our cities and natural white Britons were being discriminated against. He appeared to be on a recruitment drive, which is why, when you and pantoandy began spouting your tosh I wondered whether there was a deliberate BNP recruitment drive via the internet going on.
He was absolutely clear that getting rid of coloured immigrants was the main purpose of the BNP. It always has been, it is, and always will be. He was on the MSN messenger boards under the name of Bob Tail. He wasn't the only one, but I can't remember the other name. It was designed to be harmless and fluffy, though. Rather like "pantoandy". So I've been keeping an eye on the racist filth long before you got on your hind legs and started braying.
So you coming on here and saying they are all about animal rights and asking what their policies are is irrelevant. Does anyone (apart from the BNP) care what nazi policies were in the face of 50 or 60 million dead? They are all window dressing there to fool the gullible. Fascist parties in power have led to the murder of political opponents EVERYWHERE they have ever happened. The BNP is a fascist party led by fascists. Griffin is a Hitler lover.
And DO try to remember - insults from a BNP member are a compliment! Thank you!
(MY APOLOGIES TO ALL WHO HAVE SUFFERED THIS THREAD. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO LET FASCISM GO UNOPPOSED.)
The BNP has over a million votors. You have shared the boards with a few. That Is a little like my saying that all Lib Dems are Jesus loving beardys in sandals. In any Party, you will find the radical, it happens In all of them.
The Immigration Policy of the BNP is not to rid out shores of any-one not born here. That is a myth bandied about by the media for the gulliable such as you. The BNP does not want Indiginous British. I suggest you actually read the Immigration Policy of the BNP. It would be Impossible to ask for Indiginous British given that we are a mongrel nation. It's actually Indiginous European, so your research is wholly Inaccurate.
The BNP wants to end mass uncontrolled Immigration something your Party Is too wankerish to challenge publically. What's Clegg's solution? Keep the floodgates open and pay them extra to go and live somewhere nice and un-crowded. FFS
What the BNP do want, Is that anyone coming to live In our country, be able to financially supporty themselves and not be an Immediate burden on the NHS and our free housing and Benifit system. Any Immigrant breaking the law to be deported.
You can not even get the BNP Policy correct so how can I expect you to answer the questions put to you?
You can talk to yourself from now in your own un-educated deluded little world because If you can not even get the facts right, my energy is being wasted on you no further.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Clodhopper
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
It's actually Indiginous European, so your research is wholly Inaccurate.
It was his words, not my research. I would have remembered European if he'd said it. It seems your own members don't know their own policy.
It was his words, not my research. I would have remembered European if he'd said it. It seems your own members don't know their own policy.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
oscar;1283262 wrote: I Is It Is Irrational, Instead
I I Is, Indeed If , It Interest I It . I Imagine If It. Is Is It Immigrants Immigrants I , If Imagine Is
Why do you keep capitalizing your "i"s?:-3
I I Is, Indeed If , It Interest I It . I Imagine If It. Is Is It Immigrants Immigrants I , If Imagine Is
Why do you keep capitalizing your "i"s?:-3
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
Below is a link to series of video shorts getting inside the BNP with the help of a double agent. I haven't watched them all yet, but the first few are very interesting.
The BNP - dog poo and a desire for mass murder.
BNP exposed - Google Videos
The BNP - dog poo and a desire for mass murder.
BNP exposed - Google Videos
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
This might interest:
The 11-year prison sentence passed down to BNP bomber Terence Gavan, the ongoing Aryan Strike Force trial, the ructions in Stoke council group and the general election fallout, and the forthcoming EDL demo mean continued strife for the BNP and far right groups.
Terrence Gavan, a BNP member, was sentenced to 11 years for possession of explosives and firearms. But this is hardly new. The BNP has always attracted its fair share of gun fetishists, explosive fantasists and mini-McVeigh’s: Tony Lecomber was convicted on explosives charges in 1985; ‘London nail bomber’ David Copeland was jailed for murder in 1999; Stuart Kerr, a fan of BNP and Combat 18, was jailed for bombing an Asian shop in the same year; David Tovey was jailed 2 years later for stockpiling explosive material; Robert Cottage and David Jackson were done for explosives in 2006; in the same year John Laidlaw was jailed for a shooting spree in north London; and Allen Boyce and Terry Collins were both convicted on explosives charges. There will no doubt be others and this kind of behaviour does little to enamour the BNP to the average voter or convince its opponents that they are anything other than violent extremists with a PR officer.
Link to full article:
Bombs, BNP splits and the EDL | libcom.org
The 11-year prison sentence passed down to BNP bomber Terence Gavan, the ongoing Aryan Strike Force trial, the ructions in Stoke council group and the general election fallout, and the forthcoming EDL demo mean continued strife for the BNP and far right groups.
Terrence Gavan, a BNP member, was sentenced to 11 years for possession of explosives and firearms. But this is hardly new. The BNP has always attracted its fair share of gun fetishists, explosive fantasists and mini-McVeigh’s: Tony Lecomber was convicted on explosives charges in 1985; ‘London nail bomber’ David Copeland was jailed for murder in 1999; Stuart Kerr, a fan of BNP and Combat 18, was jailed for bombing an Asian shop in the same year; David Tovey was jailed 2 years later for stockpiling explosive material; Robert Cottage and David Jackson were done for explosives in 2006; in the same year John Laidlaw was jailed for a shooting spree in north London; and Allen Boyce and Terry Collins were both convicted on explosives charges. There will no doubt be others and this kind of behaviour does little to enamour the BNP to the average voter or convince its opponents that they are anything other than violent extremists with a PR officer.
Link to full article:
Bombs, BNP splits and the EDL | libcom.org
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1283382 wrote: It was his words, not my research. I would have remembered European if he'd said it. It seems your own members don't know their own policy.
Flogging a dead horse here I think. She hasn't read any of the other posts or done any research so I doubt she will look at any of the links.
Flogging a dead horse here I think. She hasn't read any of the other posts or done any research so I doubt she will look at any of the links.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
Yeah. Just took me a while to lose the momentum. And I've had one or two requests for information and links, so...
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
gmc;1283476 wrote: Flogging a dead horse here I think. She hasn't read any of the other posts or done any research so I doubt she will look at any of the links.
Hopefully they may be of interest to others though;)
Hopefully they may be of interest to others though;)
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Have people given up on Governments?
OK, so now that the BNP debate has slowed down a bit, let me go back to a few of the original questions:
Do people care anymore?
Do people believe in their politicians and leaders?
Who do we look up to now?
Who inspires us?
They use to say ‘hard times produce great leaders’ which many examples from the past, who are the great leaders of today?
Where are the visionaries?
Do people care anymore?
Do people believe in their politicians and leaders?
Who do we look up to now?
Who inspires us?
They use to say ‘hard times produce great leaders’ which many examples from the past, who are the great leaders of today?
Where are the visionaries?
Have people given up on Governments?
mikeinie;1283633 wrote: OK, so now that the BNP debate has slowed down a bit, let me go back to a few of the original questions:
Do people care anymore?
Do people believe in their politicians and leaders?
Who do we look up to now?
Who inspires us?
They use to say ‘hard times produce great leaders’ which many examples from the past, who are the great leaders of today?
Where are the visionaries?
A hundred years ago we didn't have democracy in the sense that we use it nowadays-universal suffrage for all men and women-we still had monarchies and privileged rulers that many believed were born to rule rule. A lot has changed and a lot of injustice has been corrected and the passions that aroused people and had them marching in the streets have been assuaged. we have reached a hiatus and wondering where to go next. The left has won out over the right-as in the correct usage of the term the people against the status quo and the privilege of a few at the expense of the many. But that battle is still there it's just the terms and tactics have changed.
Nowadays if you talk about fascism, communism, socialism, liberalism most people don't know the terms or have strange interpretations of what those things meant. Tale liberalism for instance-america was founded on liberal principles of freedom, justice and liberty for all but somehow it's become an insult to call someone a liberal and fashionable to denigrate the concept. The right couldn't win the war of words and ideas so they change the meaning. The way you phrase the question is telling
I don't think it's so much people have given up on government as they are not quite sure what they are going to demand from government in the years to come.
Do people care anymore?
Do people believe in their politicians and leaders?
Who do we look up to now?
Who inspires us?
They use to say ‘hard times produce great leaders’ which many examples from the past, who are the great leaders of today?
Where are the visionaries?
A hundred years ago we didn't have democracy in the sense that we use it nowadays-universal suffrage for all men and women-we still had monarchies and privileged rulers that many believed were born to rule rule. A lot has changed and a lot of injustice has been corrected and the passions that aroused people and had them marching in the streets have been assuaged. we have reached a hiatus and wondering where to go next. The left has won out over the right-as in the correct usage of the term the people against the status quo and the privilege of a few at the expense of the many. But that battle is still there it's just the terms and tactics have changed.
Nowadays if you talk about fascism, communism, socialism, liberalism most people don't know the terms or have strange interpretations of what those things meant. Tale liberalism for instance-america was founded on liberal principles of freedom, justice and liberty for all but somehow it's become an insult to call someone a liberal and fashionable to denigrate the concept. The right couldn't win the war of words and ideas so they change the meaning. The way you phrase the question is telling
I don't think it's so much people have given up on government as they are not quite sure what they are going to demand from government in the years to come.
Have people given up on Governments?
.....or people are not sure where we are going anymore.
Is globalization a good thing or bad?
How far is the European Union going? Weil be become a United States of Europe? And if so, how did this come about?
Is the USA, the dominant country of the world since WW11 losing its global position?
Are we really looking to China in the future a odd mix of communism/capitalism?
Are we as a world prepared to turn a blind eye to human rights issues to secure a financial market?
Love neighbor, open borders, we are all of the same world, but how far do we go in the merging of cultures? Do we sacrifice our culture to accommodate the cultures of others?
This is why we are politically lost, the world is changing at a rapid pace and everything is interconnected in a way it has never been before.
Our politicians who use to be leaders and inspirational are becoming puppets on a world stage where their power is limited and they stand castrated in front of failing banks and investors.
We use to look up to the church, now they are found to be corrupt and full of pedophiles.
We use to look up to politicians, now they are powerless and conform to international markets even when it is against the will of their people.
We use to look up to our armies, now we do not believe what they are fighting for anymore.
The world has become a bit lost in its way
Is globalization a good thing or bad?
How far is the European Union going? Weil be become a United States of Europe? And if so, how did this come about?
Is the USA, the dominant country of the world since WW11 losing its global position?
Are we really looking to China in the future a odd mix of communism/capitalism?
Are we as a world prepared to turn a blind eye to human rights issues to secure a financial market?
Love neighbor, open borders, we are all of the same world, but how far do we go in the merging of cultures? Do we sacrifice our culture to accommodate the cultures of others?
This is why we are politically lost, the world is changing at a rapid pace and everything is interconnected in a way it has never been before.
Our politicians who use to be leaders and inspirational are becoming puppets on a world stage where their power is limited and they stand castrated in front of failing banks and investors.
We use to look up to the church, now they are found to be corrupt and full of pedophiles.
We use to look up to politicians, now they are powerless and conform to international markets even when it is against the will of their people.
We use to look up to our armies, now we do not believe what they are fighting for anymore.
The world has become a bit lost in its way
Have people given up on Governments?
mikeinie;1283647 wrote: .....or people are not sure where we are going anymore.
Is globalization a good thing or bad?
How far is the European Union going? Weil be become a United States of Europe? And if so, how did this come about?
Is the USA, the dominant country of the world since WW11 losing its global position?
Are we really looking to China in the future a odd mix of communism/capitalism?
Are we as a world prepared to turn a blind eye to human rights issues to secure a financial market?
Love neighbor, open borders, we are all of the same world, but how far do we go in the merging of cultures? Do we sacrifice our culture to accommodate the cultures of others?
This is why we are politically lost, the world is changing at a rapid pace and everything is interconnected in a way it has never been before.
Our politicians who use to be leaders and inspirational are becoming puppets on a world stage where their power is limited and they stand castrated in front of failing banks and investors.
We use to look up to the church, now they are found to be corrupt and full of pedophiles.
We use to look up to politicians, now they are powerless and conform to international markets even when it is against the will of their people.
We use to look up to our armies, now we do not believe what they are fighting for anymore.
The world has become a bit lost in its way
Globalisation is neither good nor bad it is a fact of life.
We've had thirty years of right wing economic policies and free for all that have wrecked our economic system because they got away from the basic principles of liberal capitalism which was nothing to do with letting a few get richer and richer. If you don't bother about the have nots and just think everybody should be left to think or swim sooner or later the have nots and the ones that feel they have no stake or say in the society rebel. perhaps not by force of arms as they have in the past but now they can vote and elect but we have a situation where there is a political elite that doesn't listen. The tories are tackling benefit cheats and one parent families when most people think it is the thieving bastards in the banks that are to blame and are getting away with it. In ireland it's much the same with the added dimension of a catholic church that has lost any claim to credibility as a moral compass it might once have had.-the uk churches lost it a long time ago personally I think it's good thing. On the whole people are a lot more tolerant and less judgemental of others than the church would like.
America will lose it's global position for the simple reason it's economic and foreign policies are rooted in the past. South american governments are no longer going to accept playing second fiddle to american companies-if you look at what they are doing in terms of developing alternative fuels to oil for instance they are going to take a lead over the states unless the hold the oil companies have on govt loosens or they finally wake up to the reality that it will run out. China and russia don't need the states to trade with they have alternatives that they will take great delight in developing. Europe is also realising they don't need the states and in any case they are a fickle ally at best. We've been totally ****ed up by the tories and now labour and this insane idea that you can have a service economy and nothing else-we grew to be great on manufacturing and innovation the banking side was incidental to that not the reason for it.
The world is interconnected in a way politicians don't like- they will not be so readily able to con us all in to going to war and it is easier for people to put a check on govt and big companies. BP felt it when there was a boycott in europe over plans to sink an oil rig at sea. Nike have felt it as well. a mass campaign against a multinational would be devastating and there would be nothing anyone could do to stop it and thanks to the internet such things are ever more possible. Look at the world wide reaction to Haiti it's ordinary people who feel connected to people on the other side of the planet. Things are changing very rapidly and politicians never quite keep up. People are no different now than they have ever been. They don't bother about government most of the time but will do something when they feel the need to.
Is globalization a good thing or bad?
How far is the European Union going? Weil be become a United States of Europe? And if so, how did this come about?
Is the USA, the dominant country of the world since WW11 losing its global position?
Are we really looking to China in the future a odd mix of communism/capitalism?
Are we as a world prepared to turn a blind eye to human rights issues to secure a financial market?
Love neighbor, open borders, we are all of the same world, but how far do we go in the merging of cultures? Do we sacrifice our culture to accommodate the cultures of others?
This is why we are politically lost, the world is changing at a rapid pace and everything is interconnected in a way it has never been before.
Our politicians who use to be leaders and inspirational are becoming puppets on a world stage where their power is limited and they stand castrated in front of failing banks and investors.
We use to look up to the church, now they are found to be corrupt and full of pedophiles.
We use to look up to politicians, now they are powerless and conform to international markets even when it is against the will of their people.
We use to look up to our armies, now we do not believe what they are fighting for anymore.
The world has become a bit lost in its way
Globalisation is neither good nor bad it is a fact of life.
We've had thirty years of right wing economic policies and free for all that have wrecked our economic system because they got away from the basic principles of liberal capitalism which was nothing to do with letting a few get richer and richer. If you don't bother about the have nots and just think everybody should be left to think or swim sooner or later the have nots and the ones that feel they have no stake or say in the society rebel. perhaps not by force of arms as they have in the past but now they can vote and elect but we have a situation where there is a political elite that doesn't listen. The tories are tackling benefit cheats and one parent families when most people think it is the thieving bastards in the banks that are to blame and are getting away with it. In ireland it's much the same with the added dimension of a catholic church that has lost any claim to credibility as a moral compass it might once have had.-the uk churches lost it a long time ago personally I think it's good thing. On the whole people are a lot more tolerant and less judgemental of others than the church would like.
America will lose it's global position for the simple reason it's economic and foreign policies are rooted in the past. South american governments are no longer going to accept playing second fiddle to american companies-if you look at what they are doing in terms of developing alternative fuels to oil for instance they are going to take a lead over the states unless the hold the oil companies have on govt loosens or they finally wake up to the reality that it will run out. China and russia don't need the states to trade with they have alternatives that they will take great delight in developing. Europe is also realising they don't need the states and in any case they are a fickle ally at best. We've been totally ****ed up by the tories and now labour and this insane idea that you can have a service economy and nothing else-we grew to be great on manufacturing and innovation the banking side was incidental to that not the reason for it.
The world is interconnected in a way politicians don't like- they will not be so readily able to con us all in to going to war and it is easier for people to put a check on govt and big companies. BP felt it when there was a boycott in europe over plans to sink an oil rig at sea. Nike have felt it as well. a mass campaign against a multinational would be devastating and there would be nothing anyone could do to stop it and thanks to the internet such things are ever more possible. Look at the world wide reaction to Haiti it's ordinary people who feel connected to people on the other side of the planet. Things are changing very rapidly and politicians never quite keep up. People are no different now than they have ever been. They don't bother about government most of the time but will do something when they feel the need to.
Have people given up on Governments?
well said.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
gmc: I second Mikeinie.
There's one thing I would add to it - complacency.
I think our generation - whether from these islands or North America - has had it incredibly easy. We've faced no major war and have been immensely prosperous. I think we take for granted the liberties we have and have forgotten that eternal vigilance is the price. We will be very lucky if we get away with it.
The internet may be the most important thing for the ordinary man since Magna Carta. If you see what I mean.
There's one thing I would add to it - complacency.
I think our generation - whether from these islands or North America - has had it incredibly easy. We've faced no major war and have been immensely prosperous. I think we take for granted the liberties we have and have forgotten that eternal vigilance is the price. We will be very lucky if we get away with it.
The internet may be the most important thing for the ordinary man since Magna Carta. If you see what I mean.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1283723 wrote: gmc: I second Mikeinie.
There's one thing I would add to it - complacency.
I think our generation - whether from these islands or North America - has had it incredibly easy. We've faced no major war and have been immensely prosperous. I think we take for granted the liberties we have and have forgotten that eternal vigilance is the price. We will be very lucky if we get away with it.
The internet may be the most important thing for the ordinary man since Magna Carta. If you see what I mean.
As I grew up all my relatives had been involved in ww2 in some way or the other. I had a grandfather that remembered troops on the streets of glasgow in the nineteen twenties and that had been active in the general strike and parents that remember starving in the depression-something I had been completely unaware of until when watching the news about the kent state shootings on TV in his house I had made the comment that I couldn't imagine a british government sending in troops against their own people and that got them started. I've been fascinated by history ever since, you tend to read it as a child and not think it has any effect on the way you live now but your parents and grandparents have walked straight out of the pages of a history book in to your living room.
You tend not to think of octogenarians fighting in the streets or killing people but a lot of those around now probably remember actually doing it or perhaps being bombed out of their houses.
Perhaps we do take things for granted but it's always the same, history repeats itself and all he old arguments go round and round, who rules who has the right to decide what happens and why should you let anyone tell you you don't have the right to expect things to be better or have a say. People are apathetic just now but that can change
There's one thing I would add to it - complacency.
I think our generation - whether from these islands or North America - has had it incredibly easy. We've faced no major war and have been immensely prosperous. I think we take for granted the liberties we have and have forgotten that eternal vigilance is the price. We will be very lucky if we get away with it.
The internet may be the most important thing for the ordinary man since Magna Carta. If you see what I mean.
As I grew up all my relatives had been involved in ww2 in some way or the other. I had a grandfather that remembered troops on the streets of glasgow in the nineteen twenties and that had been active in the general strike and parents that remember starving in the depression-something I had been completely unaware of until when watching the news about the kent state shootings on TV in his house I had made the comment that I couldn't imagine a british government sending in troops against their own people and that got them started. I've been fascinated by history ever since, you tend to read it as a child and not think it has any effect on the way you live now but your parents and grandparents have walked straight out of the pages of a history book in to your living room.
You tend not to think of octogenarians fighting in the streets or killing people but a lot of those around now probably remember actually doing it or perhaps being bombed out of their houses.
Perhaps we do take things for granted but it's always the same, history repeats itself and all he old arguments go round and round, who rules who has the right to decide what happens and why should you let anyone tell you you don't have the right to expect things to be better or have a say. People are apathetic just now but that can change
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
It's often very difficult to spot a trend when you are in the middle of it, but I think the British having been stirring for a few years now. Trouble is, we don't really know what to do and the urge for quick, simple "solutions" to problems makes extremism more attractive. It's a dangerous time, and a time of opportunity.
Actually, I think the whole world is stirring. I have no idea what is going to happen, but I do think it will be BIG, probably involve a great deal of horror, and maybe something good will come of it.
Actually, I think the whole world is stirring. I have no idea what is going to happen, but I do think it will be BIG, probably involve a great deal of horror, and maybe something good will come of it.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Written in 1776; "All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind." – Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations.
Never mind all is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds.
Never mind all is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
Mais oui, M. Pangloss!
I DO think it important not to give in to despair, and there's a great deal to worry about these days.
Btw - could you tell the story of the troops on the streets (of Glasgow?) as you heard it. I think I've bumped into a reference to it before now, but I may be thinking of something completely different (when the sergeants locked the armouries and stopped a revolution??? or something???)
I DO think it important not to give in to despair, and there's a great deal to worry about these days.
Btw - could you tell the story of the troops on the streets (of Glasgow?) as you heard it. I think I've bumped into a reference to it before now, but I may be thinking of something completely different (when the sergeants locked the armouries and stopped a revolution??? or something???)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1283880 wrote: Mais oui, M. Pangloss!
I DO think it important not to give in to despair, and there's a great deal to worry about these days.
Btw - could you tell the story of the troops on the streets (of Glasgow?) as you heard it. I think I've bumped into a reference to it before now, but I may be thinking of something completely different (when the sergeants locked the armouries and stopped a revolution??? or something???)
I wouldn't be the only one with relatives that saw such things.
TheGlasgowStory: Tanks in Trongate
BBC - History - Scottish History
The protest of 100,000 people quickly escalated to a riot, with the red flag being raised in George Square and the police responding with baton charges. The government's backlash to the riot was extreme: the protest was viewed as a Bolshevist rising, with 12,000 troops, machine guns and tanks called on the streets of Glasgow. What was seen by most workers as a protest against unfair working conditions and rents was viewed as imminent revolution by the government. The strikers' demands were dismissed and the whole debacle obviously strengthened socialist convictions in industrial Scotland. Red Clydeside, the Labour Party and Trade Unionism were to be a major force in Scotland throughout the rest of the century.
Do a search "riots in the 19th and 20th century" but for your area. I think you will be surprised just how predisposed we are to violence when provoked. Governments used to live in fear of the people but sometimes forget they should be and think they are there by right.
I DO think it important not to give in to despair, and there's a great deal to worry about these days.
Btw - could you tell the story of the troops on the streets (of Glasgow?) as you heard it. I think I've bumped into a reference to it before now, but I may be thinking of something completely different (when the sergeants locked the armouries and stopped a revolution??? or something???)
I wouldn't be the only one with relatives that saw such things.
TheGlasgowStory: Tanks in Trongate
BBC - History - Scottish History
The protest of 100,000 people quickly escalated to a riot, with the red flag being raised in George Square and the police responding with baton charges. The government's backlash to the riot was extreme: the protest was viewed as a Bolshevist rising, with 12,000 troops, machine guns and tanks called on the streets of Glasgow. What was seen by most workers as a protest against unfair working conditions and rents was viewed as imminent revolution by the government. The strikers' demands were dismissed and the whole debacle obviously strengthened socialist convictions in industrial Scotland. Red Clydeside, the Labour Party and Trade Unionism were to be a major force in Scotland throughout the rest of the century.
Do a search "riots in the 19th and 20th century" but for your area. I think you will be surprised just how predisposed we are to violence when provoked. Governments used to live in fear of the people but sometimes forget they should be and think they are there by right.
Have people given up on Governments?
mikeinie;1281841 wrote: (Reposting from International Politics):
Do people care anymore?
Do people believe in their politicians and leaders?
Who do we look up to now?
Who {What {added BTS} inspires us?
Yes
No
China
Freebies
Do people care anymore?
Do people believe in their politicians and leaders?
Who do we look up to now?
Who {What {added BTS} inspires us?
Yes
No
China
Freebies
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
Do a search "riots in the 19th and 20th century" but for your area
Oh, I remember the punks and the skinheads and the Broadwater Farm Estate and the miners' strike. There's a time and a place for it. Not yet, but closer than it was two or three years ago.
Yes, I think we are talking about the same incident. I'd heard about it, but little more than that. Thanks.
We live in interesting times...
Oh, I remember the punks and the skinheads and the Broadwater Farm Estate and the miners' strike. There's a time and a place for it. Not yet, but closer than it was two or three years ago.
Yes, I think we are talking about the same incident. I'd heard about it, but little more than that. Thanks.
We live in interesting times...
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1283967 wrote: Oh, I remember the punks and the skinheads and the Broadwater Farm Estate and the miners' strike. There's a time and a place for it. Not yet, but closer than it was two or three years ago.
Yes, I think we are talking about the same incident. I'd heard about it, but little more than that. Thanks.
We live in interesting times...
Go back to the twenties and thirties when govt was terrified there would be a communist uprising and the royal navy mutinied in part because of monetarist economic policies-sound familiar?
The Invergordon Mutiny
Things have actually improved since those days but out political elite are engaged in bungalow politics-detached with not much under the roof. (just made that analogy up)
Yes, I think we are talking about the same incident. I'd heard about it, but little more than that. Thanks.
We live in interesting times...
Go back to the twenties and thirties when govt was terrified there would be a communist uprising and the royal navy mutinied in part because of monetarist economic policies-sound familiar?
The Invergordon Mutiny
Things have actually improved since those days but out political elite are engaged in bungalow politics-detached with not much under the roof. (just made that analogy up)
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
Things have actually improved since those days but out political elite are engaged in bungalow politics-detached with not much under the roof. (just made that analogy up)
Yes. It's worth remembering how much better things have got over the years. Even in my lifetime I would say there is greater social mobility. I would cetainly argue Labour have lost it; I doubt the Conservatives have any sort of clue - while I have a certain amount of time for Cameron (I think his handicapped child who died has taught him a great deal) I don't trust the rest of them an inch.
But we do have a serious, respectable party that has not been in power for 100 years or so, that consistently talks sense, and was miles ahead of both major parties on the economic crisis we've just had.
No doubt after a decade or so in power, the corrupting effects would get them too, but if you want to kick the politically detached bungalow wreckers of Westminster in the nadgers, vote Liberal Democrat. :-6
Yes. It's worth remembering how much better things have got over the years. Even in my lifetime I would say there is greater social mobility. I would cetainly argue Labour have lost it; I doubt the Conservatives have any sort of clue - while I have a certain amount of time for Cameron (I think his handicapped child who died has taught him a great deal) I don't trust the rest of them an inch.
But we do have a serious, respectable party that has not been in power for 100 years or so, that consistently talks sense, and was miles ahead of both major parties on the economic crisis we've just had.
No doubt after a decade or so in power, the corrupting effects would get them too, but if you want to kick the politically detached bungalow wreckers of Westminster in the nadgers, vote Liberal Democrat. :-6
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1284072 wrote: Yes. It's worth remembering how much better things have got over the years. Even in my lifetime I would say there is greater social mobility. I would cetainly argue Labour have lost it; I doubt the Conservatives have any sort of clue - while I have a certain amount of time for Cameron (I think his handicapped child who died has taught him a great deal) I don't trust the rest of them an inch.
But we do have a serious, respectable party that has not been in power for 100 years or so, that consistently talks sense, and was miles ahead of both major parties on the economic crisis we've just had.
No doubt after a decade or so in power, the corrupting effects would get them too, but if you want to kick the politically detached bungalow wreckers of Westminster in the nadgers, vote Liberal Democrat. :-6
Actually I used to but the ones in Scotland sold out to share power with labour in the first scottish parliament. The lib/lab pact in the eighties was another sell out
by people who just wanted to get themselves a job. Quite like the shadow liberal chancellor whose name I forget for now and I'm not sure about cleggie. be interesting to see if they stick to their guns this time. I think they should make PR a condition of any support they give for anything. It went out the window in 97 when TB and his crowd realised they didn't need support from other parties. The tories in scotland now think PR is wonderful and go against the party line on it-it's the only way they get any seats in scotland. next election will be interesting I think but until we get PR the old cycle of elected dictatorships will just continue
But we do have a serious, respectable party that has not been in power for 100 years or so, that consistently talks sense, and was miles ahead of both major parties on the economic crisis we've just had.
No doubt after a decade or so in power, the corrupting effects would get them too, but if you want to kick the politically detached bungalow wreckers of Westminster in the nadgers, vote Liberal Democrat. :-6
Actually I used to but the ones in Scotland sold out to share power with labour in the first scottish parliament. The lib/lab pact in the eighties was another sell out
by people who just wanted to get themselves a job. Quite like the shadow liberal chancellor whose name I forget for now and I'm not sure about cleggie. be interesting to see if they stick to their guns this time. I think they should make PR a condition of any support they give for anything. It went out the window in 97 when TB and his crowd realised they didn't need support from other parties. The tories in scotland now think PR is wonderful and go against the party line on it-it's the only way they get any seats in scotland. next election will be interesting I think but until we get PR the old cycle of elected dictatorships will just continue
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
I did at one time threaten to join the SNP!:wah:
(It was in a row with some Scots on a previous message board.)
What's the dirt on Cable? He's the one who seems to know what he's talking about on the economy.
I seem to be a little less hard than you on Lib Dem wheeling and dealing. They are the third party and have to try to take what they can get. Even I consider it unlikely that they'll get an overall majority (sigh....) so deals at that point are almost inevitable.
Politicians desperate for government positions don't join the Lib Dems!
(It was in a row with some Scots on a previous message board.)
What's the dirt on Cable? He's the one who seems to know what he's talking about on the economy.
I seem to be a little less hard than you on Lib Dem wheeling and dealing. They are the third party and have to try to take what they can get. Even I consider it unlikely that they'll get an overall majority (sigh....) so deals at that point are almost inevitable.
Politicians desperate for government positions don't join the Lib Dems!
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Have people given up on Governments?
Clodhopper;1284084 wrote: I did at one time threaten to join the SNP!:wah:
(It was in a row with some Scots on a previous message board.)
What's the dirt on Cable? He's the one who seems to know what he's talking about on the economy.
I seem to be a little less hard than you on Lib Dem wheeling and dealing. They are the third party and have to try to take what they can get. Even I consider it unlikely that they'll get an overall majority (sigh....) so deals at that point are almost inevitable.
Politicians desperate for government positions don't join the Lib Dems!
I just forgot his name momentarily.
The liberals didn't need to concede anything as they held the balance of power they could have brought down the govt any time. If you sell out your principles you don't actually have any imo.
(It was in a row with some Scots on a previous message board.)
What's the dirt on Cable? He's the one who seems to know what he's talking about on the economy.
I seem to be a little less hard than you on Lib Dem wheeling and dealing. They are the third party and have to try to take what they can get. Even I consider it unlikely that they'll get an overall majority (sigh....) so deals at that point are almost inevitable.
Politicians desperate for government positions don't join the Lib Dems!
I just forgot his name momentarily.
The liberals didn't need to concede anything as they held the balance of power they could have brought down the govt any time. If you sell out your principles you don't actually have any imo.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Have people given up on Governments?
gmc;1284087 wrote: I just forgot his name momentarily.
The liberals didn't need to concede anything as they held the balance of power they could have brought down the govt any time. If you sell out your principles you don't actually have any imo.
Hmm. Seems at first glance that we're looking at the same thing and I call it compromise and you call it sell out. I was only just becoming politically aware at the time so my understanding was, well, young.
But it seems to me that yes, they could have brought down the government, and then what? The loss of any influence they had. As it stands, our first past the post system can't really cope with coalition government: there is no established viable system for it. A result, I've always assumed, of the "Civil War in the drawing room" basis of our modern Parliament.
PR - yes please.
The liberals didn't need to concede anything as they held the balance of power they could have brought down the govt any time. If you sell out your principles you don't actually have any imo.
Hmm. Seems at first glance that we're looking at the same thing and I call it compromise and you call it sell out. I was only just becoming politically aware at the time so my understanding was, well, young.
But it seems to me that yes, they could have brought down the government, and then what? The loss of any influence they had. As it stands, our first past the post system can't really cope with coalition government: there is no established viable system for it. A result, I've always assumed, of the "Civil War in the drawing room" basis of our modern Parliament.
PR - yes please.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."