ForumGarden

One of the reasons for many being unbelievers in God, is that God is just not there in their consciousness; and he purposely is not there, so no unbeliever is to blame for their current situation. We have to one day come to grips with just how much God is really in charge of life; and just how much he is manipulating all things.

I wanted to get back into some of the ramifications of living in the times that God is really not here. And show you in the bible that he is NOT here now!

When it seems like God is not there, its probally because he really is not there; and that is something very hard for a believer to deal with. Many believers then phycologically enduce their own belief by convincing themselves that God is there, they feed their faith by thinking no other way; and in my view, the vast majority of these times and instances, God is actually not there. If not all of them. In fact I do not believe God has been to earth over two times since Eden was created. This is not to say that no angels of God are here, I think they are; and they see to Gods business on earth. Now, is the Holy Spirit here now?

Now that's an interesting question as well, and I think even more believers have fooled themselves into thinking they have the Holy Spirit in them, when they really don't.

And I want to go into that.

We all hold the power to convince ourselves of almost anything. And where religion is concerned, this self delusion has literally become professional; whole religions have convinced themselves of all kinds of doctrines, testaments and grand delusions that include God himself. People are traditionally taught these delusions from birth and believing them are serious common habitual ways of living for many; and this is a major reason why I think most Christians think they have Gods Spirit. They just convince themselves, pacify themselves and uplift themselves by themselves. Its all self, not Holy Spirit; its human spirit.

And I want to go into that.

There is no fine line between human spirit and God's Spirit, they are vastly different. Absolutely in no manner are they even simular. Again a description of Gods Spirit, its ways and means; its inner quality; Gal. 5:22-23, " But the fruit of the Spirit, ( or the evidence of it, the charactheristics of it, the tell all pure signs of it), is Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self Control." This is real God Holy Spirit in a nutshell; any human who claims to have Gods Spirit inside of them, that does not continually have these qualitys comming out of them, is just deceiving themselves. There is absolutely no way around this and no altering it in any fashion. If you think you have Gods Spirit, THIS is your personal way of finding out for sure. These things MUST be IN you, an integral part of you, AND always GROWING inside of you, AND comming out from you.

Now you can try and water this down all you want; but it is the given biblical standard. Now who stands up to it?

I can imagine it can be a very hurtful thing to have to come to a realization that God has not given you his Spirit, but that does NOT mean he never will! We just don't need to " Become Kings before our time", and that temptation is truly great. Study the time lines in the bible, it does teach that in the end times God will pour out his Spirit to a group called " The First fruits." Why call them the first fruits, if every generation before them had Gods Spirit all the way back to biblical times, as if God has always had a group represent him on earth in every age, which I totally disagree with. No, they are called the FIRST fruits, because they will be the FIRST group called out in our age; our time, or a comming time. And I want to go through some scriptures on that.

Now Rev. 14:1-5, this is a group of humans called the first fruits; they have not been defiled with women, they " Kept themselves chaste"; they follow Christ in every manner, they do not lie and they are blameless". Listen, there is no group of humans on earth that are even close to this. Now this scripture can't be twisted by desperate believers who might say, " Well the power of God will make these people like this", no- they kept themselves chase. Oh God will be behind them, yes, but they will be totally different and sinless. You can't manipulate this in scripture, there are no people like this around now, nor have EVER been! That's WHY they are called FIRST fruits. They will be the very first ones like this, and in my view, they were NOT the first church's called out in the biblical past!

At times it seems like God is not there; I think that's by design , because he is not here. And I often wonder does his absence make the human heart grow funder?

How far is God going to go in teaching humanity these lessons he wants taught?

Well that's one of the reasons why God is NOT here! Think long and deep about it. He is teaching us a serious lesson; living without God!

It seems like God is not there.

After reading this entire thread and digesting all the wisdom contained therein, it appears that God is still not there. Any help, Mickey?

Ahso!;1420902 wrote: After reading this entire thread and digesting all the wisdom contained therein, it appears that God is still not there. Any help, Mickey?


Well I don't believe God is here, but I believe he is on his way.

Don't forget this common truth; at times it seems that God is not here, simply because he is not here. Don't try to convince yourself that he is, just because some religious person believes that he is. God has his own home, and he lives there.

He does not live on earth.

So you don't believe what the christian bible says about the holy spirit descending after Jesus' ascension?

Mickiel;1421219 wrote: Don't forget this common truth; at times it seems that God is not here, simply because he is not here. Don't try to convince yourself that he is, just because some religious person believes that he is. God has his own home, and he lives there.

He does not live on earth.


Planet Kolob?

Ahso!;1421230 wrote: So you don't believe what the christian bible says about the holy spirit descending after Jesus' ascension?


I don't use a Christian bible, I use a bible; there is no such thing as a Christian bible; and the Holy Spirit is not God; Jesus is not God, but those two have visited the earth.

Why don't you stop comparing my beliefs to Christianity?

What did Jesus mean when he said that he and the father are one?

As for the bible thing, a lot of people refer to different authoritative books or manuals as bibles. So I specify by saying Christian Bible. I'd rather say that instead of Holy Bible because I don't consider any book sacred or holy.

Bi·ble (bbl)

n.

1.

a. The sacred book of Christianity, a collection of ancient writings including the books of both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

b. The Hebrew Scriptures, the sacred book of Judaism.

c. A particular copy of a Bible: the old family Bible.

d. A book or collection of writings constituting the sacred text of a religion.

2. often bible A book considered authoritative in its field: the bible of French cooking.



Bible - definition of Bible by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Ahso!;1421282 wrote: What did Jesus mean when he said that he and the father are one?


He meant they are one in purpose, vision, goals, teamwork, agreement and unity; not " Inside of each other", as if they exist in one form together.

Ahso!;1421283 wrote: As for the bible thing, a lot of people refer to different authoritative books or manuals as bibles. So I specify by saying Christian Bible. I'd rather say that instead of Holy Bible because I don't consider any book sacred or holy.

Bi·ble (bbl)

n.

1.

a. The sacred book of Christianity, a collection of ancient writings including the books of both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

b. The Hebrew Scriptures, the sacred book of Judaism.

c. A particular copy of a Bible: the old family Bible.

d. A book or collection of writings constituting the sacred text of a religion.

2. often bible A book considered authoritative in its field: the bible of French cooking.



Bible - definition of Bible by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.




The bible is the book Christians use, they don't own it, they have no legal copyrights on it, and it was not written for them or by them. Its a book written for all of humanity, and no specific group can claim it as their own.

Mickiel;1421285 wrote: He meant they are one in purpose, vision, goals, teamwork, agreement and unity; not " Inside of each other", as if they exist in one form together.How can that be since most of what what Jesus taught was contrary to the teaching of Jewish law?

Was Jesus God's son born of a virgin as foretold by the prophets?

Mickiel;1421286 wrote: The bible is the book Christians use, they don't own it, they have no legal copyrights on it, and it was not written for them or by them. Its a book written for all of humanity, and no specific group can claim it as their own.So, "Christian Bible" is a legitimate title. It's merely a coincidence that you use the same book as your bible. Would you rather I now refer to the Christian Bible as Mickey's Bible?

Ahso!;1421293 wrote: How can that be since most of what what Jesus taught was contrary to the teaching of Jewish law?

Was Jesus God's son born of a virgin as foretold by the prophets?




What Jesus taught was contrary to all religious laws of his time, not just Jewish Law. And yes Jesus was Gods son.

Ahso!;1421294 wrote: So, "Christian Bible" is a legitimate title. It's merely a coincidence that you use the same book as your bible. Would you rather I now refer to the Christian Bible as Mickey's Bible?




Christian bible is an illegitimate title; there is no such thing as a Christian bible, you have just been taught that since your youth.

And I could careless how you refer to the bible.

Mickiel;1421296 wrote: Christian bible is an illegitimate title; there is no such thing as a Christian bible, you have just been taught that since your youth.

And I could careless how you refer to the bible.So stop complaining then.

Mickiel;1421295 wrote: What Jesus taught was contrary to all religious laws of his time, not just Jewish Law.Well, you don't know that because your knowledge is limited as is mine. From our perspective, it's a big world.

Mickiel;1421295 wrote: And yes Jesus was Gods son.Born of a virgin as foretold by the prophets? IOW, "The only begotten son of God"?

Ahso!;1421298 wrote: So stop complaining then.




Oh I am not complaining, I am correcting the curves you habitually throw at me. You throw them crooked, so I straighten them out as I receive them. Your conscious mind thus interpits this " Straightening" to be complaining; because you need that twist in order to personally handle the straightening, or " The Quickening."

Ahso!;1421299 wrote: Well, you don't know that because your knowledge is limited as is mine. From our perspective, it's a big world.

Born of a virgin as foretold by the prophets? IOW, "The only begotten son of God"?




I believe it to be arrogant assumption for you to place my knowledge into the same area as yours.

Mickiel;1421295 wrote: What Jesus taught was contrary to all religious laws of his time, not just Jewish Law. And yes Jesus was Gods son.Is Jesus dead?

Ahso!;1421303 wrote: Is Jesus dead?




He's dead in your head and alive in mine.

Mickiel;1421302 wrote: I believe it to be arrogant assumption for you to place my knowledge into the same area as yours.You're becoming defensive, Mickey. You think you know what every small group of people who gathered in the name of any and all religious headings advocates? You think have complete knowledge of everything going on in the world currently?

Mickiel;1421304 wrote: He's dead in your head and alive in mine.So belief in Jesus, or God, if one so choses, is a choice? You used the word "was", I didn't.

Ahso!;1421307 wrote: So belief in Jesus or God if one so choses, is a choice? You used the word "was", I didn't.




You asked a question, is Jesus dead. My answer was yes, he is dead in your head and alive in mine; so Jesus is both dead and alive in humans.

Mickiel;1421308 wrote: You asked a question, is Jesus dead. My answer was yes, he is dead in your head and alive in mine; so Jesus is both dead and alive in humans.Let's talk about reality, Mickey. I'm alive - you're alive - is Jesus alive like you and me?

Ahso!;1421309 wrote: Let's talk about reality, Mickey. I'm alive - you're alive - is Jesus alive like you and me?




No he is not alive " Like you and me", what we have is not abundant life, we have temporary physical-chemical life; Jesus is alive and has eternal abundant Spirit life in himself that will never end and is self substaining.

Mickiel;1421312 wrote: No he is not alive " Like you and me", what we have is not abundant life, we have temporary physical-chemical life; Jesus is alive and has eternal abundant Spirit life in himself that will never end and is self substaining.Is Jesus visible to the human eye?

Ahso!;1421314 wrote: Is Jesus visible to the human eye?




No.

Mickiel;1421316 wrote: No.So then since Jesus is not visible to the human eye, any reports to have seen Jesus would be false? Can the human ear hear Jesus speak - as that - does Jesus speak like humans?

Ahso!;1421319 wrote: So then since Jesus is not visible to the human eye, any reports to have seen Jesus would be false? Can the human ear hear Jesus speak - as that - does Jesus speak like humans?




In my view, all such reports are false. I think Jesus could communicate to humans if he so desired. If he did, it would have to be in a manner that they could comprehend. Language to language; Arabic to the Arab, Japaneses to the Japaneses, French to the French. Or do something to the human consciousness that could make that human comprehend whatever manner he was speaking in; but I do not believe that he verbally communicates with any human now.

Mickiel;1421326 wrote: In my view, all such reports are false. I think Jesus could communicate to humans if he so desired. If he did, it would have to be in a manner that they could comprehend. Language to language; Arabic to the Arab, Japaneses to the Japaneses, French to the French. Or do something to the human consciousness that could make that human comprehend whatever manner he was speaking in; but I do not believe that he verbally communicates with any human now.So then the story of Jesus showing himself to the disciples in the story of Thomas (Doubting Thomas) is a lie? And any other claim in the bible of individuals seeing and talking to Jesus would be false?

What do you have to say about what the disciples saw as recorded in Matthew 17?

Ahso!;1421331 wrote: So then the story of Jesus showing himself to the disciples in the story of Thomas (Doubting Thomas) is a lie? And any other claim in the bible of individuals seeing and talking to Jesus would be false?

What do you have to say about what the disciples saw as recorded in Matthew 17?


Just like Jesus being both dead and alive, the story of Jesus is both true and false. It is false in your mind, true in mine. Jesus existed in these historical minds; Josephus

Suetonius

Thallus

Pliny the Younger

Tertullian

Celsus

Lucian

Sextus Julius Africanus

Origen

Tacitus

Dionysius the Areopagite

Hegesippus

Conon

Porphyry of Tyre

Polycarp

Eusebius

Phlegon

Irenaeus

The Roman emperor Trajan

Julian the apostate

The Toledot Yeshu

Ussher

Paulus Orosius

Chrysostom

Clemet of Alexandria

Maracus the elder

Albert Einstien

Martin Luther King

John Ray

Pocahonthus

Louis Pasteur

Galileo Galilei

Issac Newton

Blaise Pascal.

Mickiel;1421342 wrote: Just like Jesus being both dead and alive, the story of Jesus is both true and false. It is false in your mind, true in mine. Jesus existed in these historical minds; Josephus

Suetonius

Thallus

Pliny the Younger

Tertullian

Celsus

Lucian

Sextus Julius Africanus

Origen

Tacitus

Dionysius the Areopagite

Hegesippus

Conon

Porphyry of Tyre

Polycarp

Eusebius

Phlegon

Irenaeus

The Roman emperor Trajan

Julian the apostate

The Toledot Yeshu

Ussher

Paulus Orosius

Chrysostom

Clemet of Alexandria

Maracus the elder

Albert Einstien

Martin Luther King

John Ray

Pocahonthus

Louis Pasteur

Galileo Galilei

Issac Newton

Blaise Pascal.That answer has absolutely zilch to do with what I said and asked. Explain Matthew 17, please.

Ahso!;1421354 wrote: That answer has absolutely zilch to do with what I said and asked. Explain Matthew 17, please.


The story is true to some, a lie to others. That is the best explination I can offer.

Mickiel;1421360 wrote: The story is true to some, a lie to others. That is the best explination I can offer.Then it's not true to you, right?

Ahso!;1421368 wrote: Then it's not true to you, right?


Wrong, its true to me.

Mickiel;1421373 wrote: Wrong, its true to me.But you clearly stated that spirits are not visible to the human eye. How then could the disciples had seen Moses and Elijah in Matthew 17 or Jesus after his death?

This is another one of those times in my life that it seems God is not there.

Mickiel;1422418 wrote: This is another one of those times in my life that it seems God is not there.He's not, Mickey. It's a good time to take responsibility of your life for yourself. There's nothing to be afraid of. There's a whole world of actual knowledge that awaits you.

Living without God is depressing and empty. You almost just don't want to live.

Mickiel;1422446 wrote: Living without God is depressing and empty. You almost just don't want to live.That's not true.