I think the question now is, do the Iraqi's want freedom? If they do, they need to fight for it. Otherwise, the coalition forces are wasting their time.
By Sean Rayment
Defence Correspondent
The Telegraph - UK
9-18-4
Gen Sir Mike Jackson, the head of the Army, has admitted that British troops in Iraq are "back at war". He is the first authoritative figure to concede that war is still being waged in Iraq, 16 months after President George W Bush declared that combat operations were over.
In an interview with The Telegraph, the Chief of the General Staff said that August had been a difficult month for soldiers serving in southern Iraq.
"Soldiers are now fighting a counter-insurgency war," said Sir Mike. "August was a very busy month and British soldiers were involved in war fighting."
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
What's the answer to this? The Press spends so much time on the PRO's vs. CON's of this war that there is very little attention paid to the people in Iraq.
What is the sentiment? What are their choices? Are they clamoring for a Theocracy? A Democracy? Heck if I know.
What is the sentiment? What are their choices? Are they clamoring for a Theocracy? A Democracy? Heck if I know.
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We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
I hate to sound crude but things have gone so far that what the people of Iraq want, or for that matter, what the people of the US want doesn’t matter anymore.
Iraq must become a stronghold for freedom in that part of the world. It doesn’t matter if there were WMD or not. It doesn’t matter if they pump oil or hot air.
There are hundreds of thousands of Islamic extremists in that part of the world that are committed to seeing us dead. They want us dead because of our way of life for sure but more than that, they want us dead because we are not Muslim (Atheists, Pantheists and Agnostics included). Not all Muslims want to kill off all other beliefs or non beliefs. There are just so many of them in that part of the world that do, that they can no longer be ignored. Let 9-11 testify to that fact. We did not start this war.
Iraq is as strategically important today as it has been since it was in the heart of ancient Babylon. It is where we must be. It is a beachhead we must hold. If we don’t we will be fighting those who want to murder us in our own streets.
The extremists interpret Mohammad’s teachings to be that we are their greatest enemy but that they must deal with the nearest enemy first. In Iraq we are their nearest enemy and their greatest enemy. By following their theology they will be more likely to fight us in Iraq than here. I can’t remember the Yale professor’s name who said that Iraq has become like flypaper, drawing in and capturing the terrorists.
Those who want to murder us don’t care if we are kind to them or not. They don’t care if we give them gifts, feed their children or pave their streets. They simply want us dead or converted to Islam. We must understand that what they understand is overwhelming power.
Iraq must become a stronghold for freedom in that part of the world. It doesn’t matter if there were WMD or not. It doesn’t matter if they pump oil or hot air.
There are hundreds of thousands of Islamic extremists in that part of the world that are committed to seeing us dead. They want us dead because of our way of life for sure but more than that, they want us dead because we are not Muslim (Atheists, Pantheists and Agnostics included). Not all Muslims want to kill off all other beliefs or non beliefs. There are just so many of them in that part of the world that do, that they can no longer be ignored. Let 9-11 testify to that fact. We did not start this war.
Iraq is as strategically important today as it has been since it was in the heart of ancient Babylon. It is where we must be. It is a beachhead we must hold. If we don’t we will be fighting those who want to murder us in our own streets.
The extremists interpret Mohammad’s teachings to be that we are their greatest enemy but that they must deal with the nearest enemy first. In Iraq we are their nearest enemy and their greatest enemy. By following their theology they will be more likely to fight us in Iraq than here. I can’t remember the Yale professor’s name who said that Iraq has become like flypaper, drawing in and capturing the terrorists.
Those who want to murder us don’t care if we are kind to them or not. They don’t care if we give them gifts, feed their children or pave their streets. They simply want us dead or converted to Islam. We must understand that what they understand is overwhelming power.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
You say we have cost the lives of thousands of Iraqis. I would dare to say that we have killed fewer Iraqis by far than Sadam did.
I haven't heard it said that the war against terrorism is over. On the contrary, I have heard it said that we have just begun. This is a huge problem that has been festering for decades.
Israel isn’t responsible for everything. Radical Muslims are at war with their neighbors in about 15 different places around the world. Would you say that Israel has something to do with Muslims killing “infidels†in the Philippines? This thing went global before we stepped out to defend ourselves by mounting a good offense.
I haven't heard it said that the war against terrorism is over. On the contrary, I have heard it said that we have just begun. This is a huge problem that has been festering for decades.
Israel isn’t responsible for everything. Radical Muslims are at war with their neighbors in about 15 different places around the world. Would you say that Israel has something to do with Muslims killing “infidels†in the Philippines? This thing went global before we stepped out to defend ourselves by mounting a good offense.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
I haven't heard it said that the war against terrorism is over. On the contrary, I have heard it said that we have just begun. This is a huge problem that has been festering for decades.
You need to look back at the reasons for the present situation and then considerif what you are doing is the best way to deal with it. Part of the problem is weseem to have fundamentalist christians as well as fundamentalist muslims spoiling for a fight because they think it's foretold in the bible. I don't grudge them their beliefs I just don't wanrt to be dragged in to it.
Who are you defending against and what does invading Iraq have to do with it? What is worrying is now it looks as if the US wants to pick a war with Iran all you do is justify the fundamentalists.
If you really believe the majority of people in the middle east want to destroy america you can hardly be surprised if they believe america wants to destroy their way of life. Out of such blind prejudice comes warfare. Sooner or later you have to sit down and talk and look at the causes of terrorism. You can't reason with some people just don't give the reasonable people reason to give up.
You need to look back at the reasons for the present situation and then considerif what you are doing is the best way to deal with it. Part of the problem is weseem to have fundamentalist christians as well as fundamentalist muslims spoiling for a fight because they think it's foretold in the bible. I don't grudge them their beliefs I just don't wanrt to be dragged in to it.
Who are you defending against and what does invading Iraq have to do with it? What is worrying is now it looks as if the US wants to pick a war with Iran all you do is justify the fundamentalists.
If you really believe the majority of people in the middle east want to destroy america you can hardly be surprised if they believe america wants to destroy their way of life. Out of such blind prejudice comes warfare. Sooner or later you have to sit down and talk and look at the causes of terrorism. You can't reason with some people just don't give the reasonable people reason to give up.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
I didn't say the majority of people in the Middle East want war. It is only about 2% but that is enough. That 2% is willing to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings. I'm afraid too many people don't understand the mentality we are dealing with. They will not reason. They don't care if they kill Christians, Jews or Agnostics, as long as they kill "infidels" or those who are not Muslim. It is one thing to want to evangilize it is another to want to kill until the only ones left are the ones who believe like you do.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
Basically, it's murder in the name of religion. 
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
It is only about 2% but that is enough. That 2% is willing to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings
So how to defeat them without adding to their support? hate begets hate there are many who would like to see the US going in heavy handed because they know it willl gain them support. You cannot defeat terrorists with conventional armies.
So how to defeat them without adding to their support? hate begets hate there are many who would like to see the US going in heavy handed because they know it willl gain them support. You cannot defeat terrorists with conventional armies.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
gmc wrote: So how to defeat them without adding to their support? hate begets hate there are many who would like to see the US going in heavy handed because they know it willl gain them support. You cannot defeat terrorists with conventional armies.
you know...that's a funny point you bring up..... perhaps adding to their support is all part of a big plan.
The whole thing's ****in pathetic.
If hiroshima was found to be expendible enough to justify dropping "da bomb", why not iraq? sounds good to me....not that i'm an advocate of war, but if you're goin to do something, do it right and get it done.
The law of nature has proven that the strong rule the weak and majority rules. Technology is the majority of one...and america's got it.
If it's about oil...well, decreasing popluations decreases demans, so that might not be in the interest of capitalists....personally, i think it goes further then that....it is a religious battle between the catholic/roman ideoligy and the muslim.
World war 3 has already begun.
you know...that's a funny point you bring up..... perhaps adding to their support is all part of a big plan.
The whole thing's ****in pathetic.
If hiroshima was found to be expendible enough to justify dropping "da bomb", why not iraq? sounds good to me....not that i'm an advocate of war, but if you're goin to do something, do it right and get it done.
The law of nature has proven that the strong rule the weak and majority rules. Technology is the majority of one...and america's got it.
If it's about oil...well, decreasing popluations decreases demans, so that might not be in the interest of capitalists....personally, i think it goes further then that....it is a religious battle between the catholic/roman ideoligy and the muslim.
World war 3 has already begun.
Action Cures Fear. 
"Hi. Nice to meet you...I'm "Mr. Everything's a conspiracy theory". "
"Hi. Nice to meet you...I'm "Mr. Everything's a conspiracy theory". "
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
i think it goes further then that....it is a religious battle between the catholic/roman ideoligy and the muslim.
World war 3 has already begun.
Personally i want no part in such a medieval conflict. Fundamentalist christians are just as bad, maybe not suicidal but just let them get political power. Religious regimes have always been amongst the most oppressive when they get power.
World war 3 has already begun.
Personally i want no part in such a medieval conflict. Fundamentalist christians are just as bad, maybe not suicidal but just let them get political power. Religious regimes have always been amongst the most oppressive when they get power.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
We must understand that what they understand is overwhelming power.
What use is overwhelming power when there is nobody to direct it. That is what is depressing about the whole thing, the number of people that believe that is the only answer when it is anything but.
you know...that's a funny point you bring up..... perhaps adding to their support is all part of a big plan.
The whole point of a terrorist action is to spread terror and get an extreme reaction from the government or regime being attacked. They thrive on violence and conflict give them that and they are winning, if you attack and in the process kill or injure those who would sit on the sidelines, and in the process ignore the voices of moderation on both sides then you do exactly what they want. If Bush had ignored Iraq and gone after osama bin laden things might be different but Iraq was a distraction that, as many pointed out was likely to create more terrorists. When you went in to Iraq you could hear Osama laughing.
I agree with Serenity that this is a religiously based war. What happens when America wins all over the Middle East? Islam becomes surpressed.
Since when did america decide to start a religious war? I suspect that's news to most people. Also when did you decide to take over the middle east and run it as an american fiefdom. Looking at some of the neocon? web sites that does seem to be their agenda if so then you are in for a very long war that will do little to benefit the american people and probably bankrupt you.It's also foolish to think you would win unless you go for total war and flatten the place except that would disrupt oil supplies somewhat. If that's what you want then make your intentions clear.
Democracies can only be created or destroyed from within you can't impose it on a country, the people have to shift for themselves. What will you do if the iraquis vote for an islamic state? Call the election a farce and stay there?
I for my sins, get the god channel as part of a package, every now and then there are christian evengelists preaching about how this is the end of days as foretold in the bible. What worries me occasionally is that on one level america seems to be in the grip of nutters who really believe literally in the bible and are intent on provoking a religious war. On the other hand I find it hard to believe that most americans are that daft.
What use is overwhelming power when there is nobody to direct it. That is what is depressing about the whole thing, the number of people that believe that is the only answer when it is anything but.
you know...that's a funny point you bring up..... perhaps adding to their support is all part of a big plan.
The whole point of a terrorist action is to spread terror and get an extreme reaction from the government or regime being attacked. They thrive on violence and conflict give them that and they are winning, if you attack and in the process kill or injure those who would sit on the sidelines, and in the process ignore the voices of moderation on both sides then you do exactly what they want. If Bush had ignored Iraq and gone after osama bin laden things might be different but Iraq was a distraction that, as many pointed out was likely to create more terrorists. When you went in to Iraq you could hear Osama laughing.
I agree with Serenity that this is a religiously based war. What happens when America wins all over the Middle East? Islam becomes surpressed.
Since when did america decide to start a religious war? I suspect that's news to most people. Also when did you decide to take over the middle east and run it as an american fiefdom. Looking at some of the neocon? web sites that does seem to be their agenda if so then you are in for a very long war that will do little to benefit the american people and probably bankrupt you.It's also foolish to think you would win unless you go for total war and flatten the place except that would disrupt oil supplies somewhat. If that's what you want then make your intentions clear.
Democracies can only be created or destroyed from within you can't impose it on a country, the people have to shift for themselves. What will you do if the iraquis vote for an islamic state? Call the election a farce and stay there?
I for my sins, get the god channel as part of a package, every now and then there are christian evengelists preaching about how this is the end of days as foretold in the bible. What worries me occasionally is that on one level america seems to be in the grip of nutters who really believe literally in the bible and are intent on provoking a religious war. On the other hand I find it hard to believe that most americans are that daft.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
As you say, it is a religious war however, it is not the “catholic/roman†ideology alone. Radical Islam’s goal is to be the only religion and they don’t even accept those who falsely claim they are without religion. If you are not one of them you are an infidel in their eyes. If you are an infidel you will be killed in their order of priorities. Nearest enemy first, worst enemy second, then the rest as they fall into those categories by default
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
As you say, it is a religious war however, it is not the “catholic/roman†ideology alone. Radical Islam’s goal is to be the only religion and they don’t even accept those who falsely claim they are without religion. If you are not one of them you are an infidel in their eyes. If you are an infidel you will be killed in their order of priorities. Nearest enemy first, worst enemy second, then the rest as they fall into those categories by default
Radical christians are just as bad. This is about oil and control of resources. Only a compete idiot wants to get involved in a religious war. We are being dragged in to warfare by a small minority interest group. The christians think they are on a crusade and the islamists think they are fighting the great satan. Warfare based on myths
If you want to know what is going on in Iraq have a look at the history of Saddam Hussein, Who was he how did he get power? Where did he get the tools for the factories to biuld the WMD's in the first place. who turned a blind eye when he used them on his own people?
This is not about religon that is salad dressing it's realpolitik on a grand scale dressed up in ideaology that suckers people in to following blindly.
It's not america people hate it's what is being done in your name and it's not just america either you just happen to be the biggest player.
Yes terrorists are bad news and the current crop may not be rational but it is hardly the case that the whole of the middle east wants to go to war.
Radical christians are just as bad. This is about oil and control of resources. Only a compete idiot wants to get involved in a religious war. We are being dragged in to warfare by a small minority interest group. The christians think they are on a crusade and the islamists think they are fighting the great satan. Warfare based on myths
If you want to know what is going on in Iraq have a look at the history of Saddam Hussein, Who was he how did he get power? Where did he get the tools for the factories to biuld the WMD's in the first place. who turned a blind eye when he used them on his own people?
This is not about religon that is salad dressing it's realpolitik on a grand scale dressed up in ideaology that suckers people in to following blindly.
It's not america people hate it's what is being done in your name and it's not just america either you just happen to be the biggest player.
Yes terrorists are bad news and the current crop may not be rational but it is hardly the case that the whole of the middle east wants to go to war.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
Wouldn’t you say that only a complete idiot would stand idly by while their enemy flies airplanes into their buildings, killing thousands of people? It doesn’t matter if they did it because they hate the cereal you ate for breakfast of if it’s because they don’t like the fact that you don’t share their beliefs. Either way we are forced to respond.
You say Radical Christians are just as bad. Name one instance where Christians have done to Islamic people, in the name of God, what these Islamic people did, in the name of Ala, to people of all religions on 9/11. They attacked in the name of Ala and we have responded in the name of self defense, with God's help.
You say Radical Christians are just as bad. Name one instance where Christians have done to Islamic people, in the name of God, what these Islamic people did, in the name of Ala, to people of all religions on 9/11. They attacked in the name of Ala and we have responded in the name of self defense, with God's help.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
Wouldn’t you say that only a complete idiot would stand idly by while their enemy flies airplanes into their buildings, killing thousands of people? It doesn’t matter if they did it because they hate the cereal you ate for breakfast of if it’s because they don’t like the fact that you don’t share their beliefs. Either way we are forced to respond.
I would make very sure I know who was responsible and then go after them. What I would not do is attack a convenient scapegoat and in the process ignore the real culprits. I would then want to know why they did it. Just dismissing them as nutters is not enough. You can't condone what they did but not to wonder why and dismiss them as a bunch of nutters avoids thinking. They may be many things but stupid is not one of them.
Leave god out of it, hopefully he is on the side of all mankind and for either side to claim exclusive support perhaps misses the point of all religons.
You say Radical Christians are just as bad. Name one instance where Christians have done to Islamic people, in the name of God, what these Islamic people did, in the name of Ala, to people of all religions on 9/11. They attacked in the name of Ala and we have responded in the name of self defense, with God's help.
It's perhaps not germane to the present time but the crusades soring to mind and umpteen other examples from the past where christians have commited appalling atrocities on each other in the name of religon.
Who attacked you and why? This is not a conventional war with country against country and clear cut enemies and issues. Just blasting anyone you think might be involved is not going to work or do much for long term peace and is exactly what the terrorists want you to do.
I would make very sure I know who was responsible and then go after them. What I would not do is attack a convenient scapegoat and in the process ignore the real culprits. I would then want to know why they did it. Just dismissing them as nutters is not enough. You can't condone what they did but not to wonder why and dismiss them as a bunch of nutters avoids thinking. They may be many things but stupid is not one of them.
Leave god out of it, hopefully he is on the side of all mankind and for either side to claim exclusive support perhaps misses the point of all religons.
You say Radical Christians are just as bad. Name one instance where Christians have done to Islamic people, in the name of God, what these Islamic people did, in the name of Ala, to people of all religions on 9/11. They attacked in the name of Ala and we have responded in the name of self defense, with God's help.
It's perhaps not germane to the present time but the crusades soring to mind and umpteen other examples from the past where christians have commited appalling atrocities on each other in the name of religon.
Who attacked you and why? This is not a conventional war with country against country and clear cut enemies and issues. Just blasting anyone you think might be involved is not going to work or do much for long term peace and is exactly what the terrorists want you to do.
We're Back At War In Iraq, Says General
It is clear that there is such a thing as state sponsored terrorism. Sadam used to pay the families of suicide bombers, encouraging the practice.
How many U.N. resolutions did Iraq ignore? How many of his people did Sadam gas and bury in mass graves? Should he and his sons have been allowed to continue leading a culture that raped, maimed and brutalized? Sadam may not have bombed the twin towers but he and his countrymen sure supported (morally and financially) the ideals that festered to the point it happened.
How many U.N. resolutions did Iraq ignore? How many of his people did Sadam gas and bury in mass graves? Should he and his sons have been allowed to continue leading a culture that raped, maimed and brutalized? Sadam may not have bombed the twin towers but he and his countrymen sure supported (morally and financially) the ideals that festered to the point it happened.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.